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  • The Wild and Hockey World Are Overthinking It With Marco Rossi


    Image courtesy of Nick Wosika - Imagn Images
    Tony Abbott

    The Marco Rossi Discourse has officially detached itself from reality. 

    We just saw the Florida Panthers build a dynasty on a foundation rehabilitating former top-10 picks that were unhappy, coming off a down year, or both. Sam Reinhart (No. 2 overall in 2014), Seth Jones (No. 4 in 2013), Sam Bennett (No. 4 in 2014), and Matthew Tkachuk (No. 6 in 2016). They made bets -- sometimes massive bets -- on top talent and hoped their organization would figure it out.

    This is a copycat league, as they say. Yet, as the Minnesota Wild's top-six center is coming off a career-high 60-point season at the age of 23, no one seems to want him particularly badly. Least of all, as much as GM Bill Guerin has tried to downplay it, the historically center-starved Wild, who've been rumored to be looking at trading him for the last two summers. Or three, since he might be on the move this week.

    Whether trying to low-ball Guerin on a player he doesn't seem particularly committed to, similarly worried about his size, or scared off by the fact that the Wild demoted and kept him on the fourth line in the playoffs, teams aren't biting.

    The Vancouver Canucks are believed to have only offered the 15th overall pick in tonight's draft for him. Meanwhile, the Buffalo Sabres apparently turned down an offer of Marco Rossi and "another roster player and/or prospects and picks" for JJ Peterka, according to The Athletic's Michael Russo.

    Instead, Buffalo flipped Peterka for 25-year-old Michael Kesselring and 23-year-old Josh Doan. Combined, the two players have a career 4.9 Standings Points Above Replacement in 218 games, per Evolving-Hockey. That's just barely more than Rossi had over 82 games last season (4.4 SPAR).

    We don't specifically know what was offered alongside Rossi, of course, and Kesselring being a right-shot defenseman does fill a need. Still... what are we doing here? We're living in Bizarro World when it comes to Rossi. 

    The Athletic's Shayna Goldman, one of the brightest minds in hockey analysis, wrote about the apprehensions teams may have for Rossi:

    Issue number two revolves around whether Rossi can drive his own line or is just a passenger to Kirill Kaprizov. ... These two do mesh well together. In 407 five-on-five minutes together this year, the Wild earned a 57 percent expected goal rate and outscored opponents 24-16. Rossi was still above break-even in expected and actual goals without Kaprizov, but wasn’t as in control.

    No one on earth is going to suggest that Kaprizov isn't the primary driving force on any line he's on. Kaprizov carries the puck and can do dynamic things with it as a playmaker or shooter. We've seen Kaprizov elevate Mats Zuccarello, Ryan Hartman, Joel Eriksson Ek, and Matt Boldy. It's ludicrous to say that Rossi isn't benefiting from Kaprizov when the two are on the ice together.

    Still, that doesn't mean that Rossi can't drive play in his own right. We have a growing amount of evidence that he does drive play.

    407 minutes with Kaprizov at 5-on-5 means that Rossi played 815 minutes without Kaprizov. During that time, Rossi still managed to out-score opponents 32-27 (54% goal share) with a 52.8% expected goal share. That includes a long stretch of the season when Kaprizov was injured -- and remember, this was not a good team without Kaprizov.

    From Christmas until Kaprizov's permanent return on April 9, the Wild were 29th in goal share (43.5%) and 25th in expected goal share (47.5%). During that time, Rossi was above-water in goal share (54.6%) and expected goal share (51.2%). Among Wild forwards, only Ryan Hartman and the heavily sheltered Vinnie Hinostroza could claim to be above water in both categories.

    Rossi's season wasn't a product of playing with a superstar. He consistently made other players better, almost to a person. When you examine what players did with and without Rossi, it's impossible not to notice a pattern.

    Minnesota Wild Forwards, 2024-25
    With and Without Rossi at 5-on-5

    Mats Zuccarello

    Time On Ice With vs WO: 651 / 407
    GF% With vs WO: 56.2 / 41.0
    xGF% With vs WO: 52.7 / 44.1

    Matt Boldy 

    TOI With vs WO: 559 / 695
    GF% With vs WO: 57.2 / 48.4
    xGF% With vs WO: 52.0 / 53.7

    Kirill Kaprizov

    TOI With vs WO: 408 / 317
    GF% With vs WO: 60.4 / 57.6
    xGF% With vs WO: 57.4 / 52.7

    Marcus Johansson

    TOI With vs WO: 191 / 831
    GF% With vs WO: 62.4 / 42.6
    xGF% With vs WO: 57.5 / 46.6

    Marcus Foligno

    TOI With vs WO: 185 / 755
    GF% With vs WO: 57.5 / 53.1
    xGF% With vs WO: 63.7 / 54.6

    Ryan Hartman

    TOI With vs WO: 159 / 745
    GF% With vs WO: 60.1 / 47.6
    xGF% With vs WO: 55.4 / 50.8

    That's everyone who played 100-plus 5-on-5 minutes with Rossi last year. The only player who didn't see a bump in both their actual and expected goal share was Boldy, who finished only slightly higher in xGF% without Rossi at center. It's a difficult pattern to deny.

    It makes sense, then, that Goldman's article included this graphic, which shows just how strong Rossi's game is at both ends of the ice:

    image.png

    And again, it feels like we're in Bizarro World. How can the Wild doubt his play and the results to this degree? Why are they stubbornly refusing to pay more than $5 million AAV for a player who's asking for $7 million and whose market value is over $8 million? There's a bargain to be had for seven or eight years!

    Take it! How is this hard?!

    Now it seems like Guerin has not only Galaxy Brained himself on this, but the NHL might be, too. Teams may be waiting for July 1 to snipe Rossi with an offer sheet that Minnesota would be unwilling to match. Still, if a team like Buffalo is passing on Rossi and more in a trade, then maybe the lack of trade interest is real. We'll find out in the coming days. 

    Whatever the resolution, though, this has been an incredibly bizarre series of events for Rossi. Any other center at his age -- with his production, work ethic, and character -- would never hit the market. And if they did, teams would be lining up to improve their center depth with a talented, goal-scoring, point-producing center.

    Here we are, though, with Rossi on the market and teams saying "Pass."

    It'd be one thing if Rossi hadn't proven he could hang at the position. But he has! Yet, from what we know today, it's done almost nothing for his stock, inside and outside the organization. We're going past this situation being an irrational farce and heading to the point where we completely break with reality. Whoever is first to come to their senses is going to get a hell of a player on a great deal, and the State of Hockey should be hoping it's Guerin.

    Think you could write a story like this? Hockey Wilderness wants you to develop your voice, find an audience, and we'll pay you to do it. Just fill out this form.

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    1 hour ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

    The Wild still have a center depth issue for the upcoming season as it sits on the 29th of June. Spit balling here, but two UFA names are intriguing to me: Claude Giroux and Jack McBain.

    Giroux had his career best FO% at over 60% with Ottawa last season and is probably looking for a one year deal at $4M. Think of him as this season's Fleury and the impact he could have on the team and younger players.

    McBain spurned the Wild after four years of college and landed in Arizona. Not sure of the exact reason, but it was rumored that he didn't think he would crack the roster and didn't want to linger in Des Moines.

    He's 6'4", 210-ish and certainly plays with grit. He also had a career best 50% FO win season last year. He's coming off a $1.6M AAV contract and Utah may not give him the bump he's looking for. Not great career stats, but his entire career has been in AZ/UT, not a great place to build stats.

    Ek, Rossi, Giroux, McBain and a developing Yurov doesn't sound terrible up the middle. And it certainly sounds better than what we have on June 29th.

    GM zona! you do know that Giroux is going to be 38 this year? go back to sleep please!

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    I think the rest of the league values rossi but Billy handled it all wrong.

    The rest of the league knows Billy doesn't want and now with how he's been treated, rossi doesn't really want to be here.

    What other GM is going to give up a ton when they know both sides want to be done, and while a good player rossi is not elite. He doesn't have the flashy skills or pedigree of an Eichal or Tachuk so who is going to give up a bunch of really good NHL ready players?

    Love the article Tony. I think you are spot on with rossi.

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    3 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    GM zona! you do know that Giroux is going to be 38 this year? go back to sleep please!

    Moot point. Another year in Ottawa for Giroux.

    What a weird FA year.

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    6 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    GM zona! you do know that Giroux is going to be 38 this year? go back to sleep please!

    Moot point because he signed for one year at $2M. Good for him and Ottawa. I would take a 38 year old center with his pedigree that scored 50 points and was over 60% in the circle last year for $2M for one year in a heartbeat.

    Not as good a deal as that PLAYOFF BEAST (Trenin) at $3.5M for four years, though?

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    From where I'm sitting, the thing that jumps off the page with me is the effect he has on Hartman and Foligno. It seems like that should be a line. I discount Johansson mainly because he looks like he's with the bottom dwellers now.

    For me, putting 2 guys into the 60s who don't normally play there would be a good thing. No idea what line number you put on it, it just looks like it would be a dominant line. 

    So, I wonder, was this what Heinzy was thinking when he put Rossi with Trenin and Breezers? Maybe Rossi wasn't in the doghouse and never was, they were just trying to create some secondary scoring and Heinzy liked his lines? 

    Or, maybe the obvious scenario occurred and for reasons unknown and Rossi was in the doghouse. You'd think that when you were getting nothing out of Gaudreau, you'd have the presence of mind to switch the 2 centers. It's not like Rossi is any more undersized than Gaudreau is, or any grittier.

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    1 hour ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

    Moot point because he signed for one year at $2M. Good for him and Ottawa. I would take a 38 year old center with his pedigree that scored 50 points and was over 60% in the circle last year for $2M for one year in a heartbeat.

    Not as good a deal as that PLAYOFF BEAST (Trenin) at $3.5M for four years, though?

    i don't care about neither claude nor ottawa. 

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    I'm disappointed. I was hoping for a vintage ODC BOLD response:

    Claude Giroux is five months older than Brad Marchand BTW. Five human months is almost three dog years so Giroux is a lot older than Marchand.

    Or:

    I would take a 38 year old center with his pedigree that scored 50 points and was over 60% in the circle last year for $2M for one year in a heartbeat. More stats and stats don't matter unless I want to use stats to try to validate my point.

    Time for me to go back to sleep.

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    50 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

    I'm disappointed. I was hoping for a vintage ODC BOLD response:

    Claude Giroux is five months older than Brad Marchand BTW. Five human months is almost three dog years so Giroux is a lot older than Marchand.

    Or:

    I would take a 38 year old center with his pedigree that scored 50 points and was over 60% in the circle last year for $2M for one year in a heartbeat. More stats and stats don't matter unless I want to use stats to try to validate my point.

    Time for me to go back to sleep.

    good night

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    2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    i don't care about neither claude nor ottawa. 

    Hard to follow as usual.  BT plays for Ottawa and you have been proposing fantasy trades between the Wild and Ottawa for months.  Flip-flop away.  Cheers!

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    1 hour ago, WildNotMild said:

    Hard to follow as usual.  BT plays for Ottawa and you have been proposing fantasy trades between the Wild and Ottawa for months.  Flip-flop away.  Cheers!

    If he plays for MN or a potential trade/FA signee - I’m interested 

    otherwise - I’m not

    get it? F off

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    Good morning children. It's Christmas Eve! Time to write your letters to Nomovement Clause (Billy G.) and tell him what you want for Christmas on July 1st. Remember not to ask Nomovement for too much because funds are limited and "1C's don't grow on trees". In the spirit of the holidays, please be respectful of what the other boys and girls ask for and don't tease or make fun of them (that starts with me).

    Here's what I want: a Kirill Kaprizov for five years at the lowest AAV that he will sign for; a Marco Rossi for Boldy terms; and a nice chunk of cap space left over to be used at the trade deadline.

    Thank you Nomovement Clause,

    ArizonaWildFan

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    1 hour ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

    Good morning children. It's Christmas Eve! Time to write your letters to Nomovement Clause (Billy G.) and tell him what you want for Christmas on July 1st. Remember not to ask Nomovement for too much because funds are limited and "1C's don't grow on trees". In the spirit of the holidays, please be respectful of what the other boys and girls ask for and don't tease or make fun of them (that starts with me).

    Here's what I want: a Kirill Kaprizov for five years at the lowest AAV that he will sign for; a Marco Rossi for Boldy terms; and a nice chunk of cap space left over to be used at the trade deadline.

    Thank you Nomovement Clause,

     

    The big question is: Does KK sign first and rely on BG to improve the roster properly later. Or KK waits with what BG comes along and decides then about his peak-years-contract. 

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