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Hockey Wilderness
  • Marco Rossi Is Still Looking For the Benefit Of the Doubt


    Image courtesy of Jessica Alcheh-Imagn Images
    Tony Abbott

    In hockey, you often ride the hot hand. Great chemistry between players is rarely the result of struggling and then finding a breakthrough. Usually, you have it or you don't, and once you have it, coaches are loathe to give it up. So it's a bit eyebrow-raising that on Sunday, John Hynes broke up his productive top line for the second consecutive game, swapping center Marco Rossi onto a lower line.

    In isolation, neither change should have stood out. Hynes flipped Rossi with fourth-line center Marat Khusnutdinov for a few shifts at the tail end of the second period in Friday's game at the Anaheim Ducks. Coaches send players, especially young ones, messages all the time. It happens.

    Rossi responded with a goal and assist in the third period; the Wild won, and everyone seemed to move on. Even on Sunday, the Wild needed a goal to tie and loaded up their top line with Kirill Kaprizov, Matt Boldy, and Joel Eriksson Ek. You can't blame a coach for doing that, especially when it netted them the goal that forced overtime.

    But after Sunday's game, The Athletic's Michael Russo wrote about Hynes' dissatisfaction with Rossi's consistency. "[Hynes] knows Rossi's getting points but feels like his game's been up and down. For instance, after taking three penalties in a four-game stretch, Hynes thought Rossi was good in San Jose. But in Anaheim, Hynes felt Rossi needed to be harder on plays and manage the puck better."

    Rossi's 23, and his game is still developing, so learning moments will happen. Ideally, Hynes sends his message, and the extremely driven center works to clean up those mistakes and continues his terrific start to the season. 

    But also... hopefully, Rossi's leash doesn't stay this short because his season has been extremely consistent. The top line of Kaprizov, Rossi, and Mats Zuccarello has outscored opponents by a 12-6 margin at 5-on-5 this season. Looking at Rossi himself, he's only been outscored at 5-on-5 in three of their 15 games and got the better of the expected goals share in 10 of 15 games. Say what you want, but that feels pretty consistent.

    Then there's the offensive output, arguably more consistent than any other forward on the team not named "Kaprizov." Rossi entered Tuesday with 12 even-strength points (tied for 13th in the NHL) and 4.51 individual expected goals (tied for 11th).

    Looking at the game logs, we can see how steadily he's generated chances night after night. Here's the number of his individual xG for each game and how they ranked among Wild forwards on that night:

    Game 1: 0.09 (6th)
    Game 2: 0.48 (2nd)
    Game 3: 0.26 (3rd)
    Game 4: 0.29 (3rd)
    Game 5: 0.73 (1st)

    Game 6: 0.08 (6th)
    Game 7: 0.07 (3rd)
    Game 8: 0.07 (6th)
    Game 9: 0.27 (2nd)
    Game 10: 0.69 (1st)

    Game 11: 0.18 (5th)
    Game 12: 0.02 (4th)
    Game 13: 0.57 (1st)
    Game 14: 0.50 (1st)
    Game 15: 0.22 (3rd)

    In bold is every game where Rossi had at least 0.20 expected goals at even-strength and finished the night in the top three among Wild forwards. That number is nine of 15 games. Compare that to, say, Boldy, who has had just five such games in 15 efforts, and we can get a good sense of how consistent Rossi has been.

    Now, points aren't everything, and neither are scoring chances. But on a team tied for 27th with 2.25 expected goals per hour at 5-on-5, you've got to take the offense you can get, even if those offensive players are prone to an extra mistake or lapse. Rossi's play should earn him the same benefit of the doubt that gets extended to less impactful players (whom I'm sure you can name in the comments). 

    To be fair, there's a balancing act in this -- how much do you prioritize imparting a lesson during a player's growing pains versus not throwing out prospects with the Zamboni water -- and to his credit, Hynes hasn't made any missteps yet. But it can be tricky, and Hynes needs to navigate these waters carefully to enhance the growth in his budding center's game without derailing his (or the top line's) success.

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    18 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

    Haha all your posts you did just proved you know nothing about hockey and how to build a playoff team.  You don’t pay Rossi 6-7mm.  You trade him for someone better with a prospect or pick. We have a team of small guys that needs to be addressed

    The only thing you’ve said is that this team needs to get bigger and that stats don’t matter.I think most people here know you don’t know yours from a hole in the ground.Stats are something tangible and shows what a player is doing in the game. Sure the eye test is an aspect but stats are the result.

    I’ve already said this team needs to get bigger, I’ve been saying that for years. Rossi isn’t who you should be looking to get rid of though and I’m well aware of how to build a playoff team.

    To say stats don’t matter and tell me i dont know what I’m talking about is hilarious. Go ahead and dig yourself deeper though, it’s entertaining.

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    46 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

    We haven't even seen him in playoffs yet Pewter and you still can conclusively say he will be not good in the post season? Seems a little premature.

    Our current lineup example/proxy is Zuccy.   Point producer in regular season, not so much postseason.  Zuc and Rossi play similar physicality game (ie none), and get manhandled in post season

     this isn’t Rossi hate, I just think it’s an opportunity for Guerin to flip Rossi for a rugged top 6 winger

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    55 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    Zuc and Rossi play similar physicality game (ie none), and get manhandled in post season

    Rossi isn't a bruiser by any means but he plays much more physical. A lot stronger on the walls and net front than Zucc is and he doesn't get pushed off the puck near as easy as Zucc.

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    24 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

    Rossi isn't a bruiser by any means but he plays much more physical. A lot stronger on the walls and net front than Zucc is and he doesn't get pushed off the puck near as easy as Zucc.

    Agree on this Rossi vs zuc comparison

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    2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    it all comes down to two points. 

    1. reality - line of 5'8'' 5'9'' and 5'10'' players as your CORE will not work in the playoffs. there is no precedence for it. it just does not work.

    2. wild are NOT in the business of taking a slow look at what they have. sure if Rossi is playing for Hawks or Sharks they can take their time and see who they have, see how he does in the playoffs. But we are not them. We have a superstar to worry about. Scratch that a top 3 player in the world. That is the only priority. You go into playoffs with such a tiny line, Wild get whooped, Kap says - "well we tried and guess their ok with status quo, which i am not, so i'll take my talent to XXXX". That's it. We do nothing - there is just no way Kap stays on to "help" us out further. If we do something - then who will help us with that? You got Rossi, Zeev or Yurov. That's it. Another reality. You can complain, bring up stats and comparison all you like. It does NOT matter. To have any chance of enticing Kap to stay, the team must show him that he matters. It won't do that by getting bounced by Dallas or Jets or Avs in the first round and having Kap concussed and broken. Rossi and Zuccy - cannot protect Kap. And it's not about the goons that sit on the bench and bark. It's about help on his line. You mentioned how Marchy won Conn Smythe.....you think it helped having to play with Eichel and Stone? again i ask - which of our hulks is Eichel and which one is Stone? Rossi or Zuccy?

    1. That isn't our entire core though. Yes, it is one line the way we are currently running the lines. We also have Faber, Boldy, Ek, Foligno, Trenin, Brodin and Middleton signed for the next 3-4 years. All of which are over 6 foot. It is one line, who is playing awesome reg season hockey that Heinzy can easily swap to include more physical players when playoffs come.

    2. Ah yes. I forgot you have a secret telephone line where Kap tells you exactly what he wants with every minute that passes. It is fear mongering constantly with you. The best thing they can do is play well not trade for some imaginary desire you think Kap has expressed even though he hasn't in any media form I have seen. They will have more money to play with on July 1st and can make some moves and see if Kap will sign. Until then you're just suggesting screwing with a good thing, possibly giving away assets that were contributing to that chemistry, by trading a player. If a chance comes up before the deadline to add some size (with skill), maybe, but i think going all in on an acquisition for this year is premature and will only cost us huge at the deadline, when prices are highest vs seeing if Kap is willing to talk on July 1st and having a plan whether he is or isn't. Until then the only thing he has said is he wants to focus on hockey. That seems to be working well. Pulling anything else imaginary from what Kap may or may not want is pointless and not worth the wild speculation.

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    40 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

    Good point, when you look at just last night, their stats do look sort of similar.

    yeah stats has Rossi on par with Bedard. very nice! 

    what do the stats tell us about freddy g? well he is outperforming Elias Petterson!

    hooray so basically we have Bedard and Petterson now on the wild. 

    not weird.

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    9 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

    1. That isn't our entire core though. Yes, it is one line the way we are currently running the lines. We also have Faber, Boldy, Ek, Foligno, Trenin, Brodin and Middleton signed for the next 3-4 years. All of which are over 6 foot. It is one line, who is playing awesome reg season hockey that Heinzy can easily swap to include more physical players when playoffs come.

    2. Ah yes. I forgot you have a secret telephone line where Kap tells you exactly what he wants with every minute that passes. It is fear mongering constantly with you. The best thing they can do is play well not trade for some imaginary desire you think Kap has expressed even though he hasn't in any media form I have seen. They will have more money to play with on July 1st and can make some moves and see if Kap will sign. Until then you're just suggesting screwing with a good thing, possibly giving away assets that were contributing to that chemistry, by trading a player. If a chance comes up before the deadline to add some size (with skill), maybe, but i think going all in on an acquisition for this year is premature and will only cost us huge at the deadline, when prices are highest vs seeing if Kap is willing to talk on July 1st and having a plan whether he is or isn't. Until then the only thing he has said is he wants to focus on hockey. That seems to be working well. Pulling anything else imaginary from what Kap may or may not want is pointless and not worth the wild speculation.

    it is our entire top line. our top line that has our franchise player. the same player that was abused time and time again by physicality and then injured because there was no repercussion against the savagery. it does NOT matter that we have foligno on the bench. you need to deter it at the core. and our core cannot deter a fly. 

    no i do not have a phone line to Kap. but i think i have a more honest take on how the situation will play out then most. 

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    6 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    yeah stats has Rossi on par with Bedard. very nice! 

    what do the stats tell us about freddy g? well he is outperforming Elias Petterson!

    hooray so basically we have Bedard and Petterson now on the wild. 

    not weird.

    That makes sense that they'd have the same amount of points because they're both 5-foot-9, and all 5-foot-9 players are the same.

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    1 minute ago, Tony Abbott said:

    That makes sense that they'd have the same amount of points because they're both 5-foot-9, and all 5-foot-9 players are the same.

    oh right i completely forgot about Rossi being more Marchand than Bedard.

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    "Let's see what Rossi does driving a line without Kaprizov"

    Another 5-on-5 point and two on-ice goals for. Can't wait for the goalposts to move to "Let's see him make Lauko into Jonathan Cheechoo."

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    14 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

    "Let's see what Rossi does driving a line without Kaprizov"

    Another 5-on-5 point and two on-ice goals for. Can't wait for the goalposts to move to "Let's see him make Lauko into Jonathan Cheechoo."

    You didn’t hear it from me but Laukzy has been a sneaky good acquisition.  Faster and more offensively skilled than expected.  
     

    calling my shot: bro is a middle six contributor by end of season. 

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    7 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

    He's fast and smart, I just don't think he has the hands.

    If he could handle the puck he'd be unstoppable. At 24, is there any hope for improvement?

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    Rossi looks better when he is not on the top line.  More at ease.  He had a nice game last night. 

    Lauko might have better hands if he slows down, but I think his full speed ahead and play with chaos is what we need.

    Also, anyone notice Hoos Nuts and KK97 that one shift?  If anyone is a Zuccy replacement it might be #22.

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    30 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

    Rossi looks better when he is not on the top line.  More at ease.  He had a nice game last night. 

    Lauko might have better hands if he slows down, but I think his full speed ahead and play with chaos is what we need.

    Also, anyone notice Hoos Nuts and KK97 that one shift?  If anyone is a Zuccy replacement it might be #22.

    I'm guessing Hoozy is playing a pretty guarded game right now (per coach's orders on 4th line duty.  Looking at you Marco).  As Hynzy gives him more rope I think we'll see more flashes from "Russian Khuz never break" and that little rascal will climb the lineup.

    It's great to have decent prospects in the pipeline again (looking at you Fletcher)

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