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  • Liam Ohgren Is Showing Us the Difference Between A Good Prospect and A Great One


    Image courtesy of David Gonzales-Imagn Images
    Justin Hein

    In recent seasons, Minnesota Wild fans have been spoiled by seeing what a future superstar looks like in their first NHL games. Kirill Kaprizov scored an overtime winner in his NHL debut, Brock Faber looked right at home in playoff action, and Matt Boldy catalyzed Kevin Fiala’s career year in 2021-22. 

    It’s safe to say that Liam Ohgren didn’t make the same impression. While there was hope that Ohgren could play a full-time NHL role and solve Minnesota's secondary scoring, he was unimpressive in his seven NHL games this year. 

    To open the regular season, the coaching staff played Marcus Johansson on the second line instead, leaving Ohgren on the fourth line, which didn’t maximize his skillset. Eventually, the Wild sent Ohgren down to Iowa. Then, when the NHL club needed an AHL call-up, they promoted Michael Milne instead of Ohgren. 

    It’s not the optimal outcome for the Wild this year. Secondary scoring is the team’s biggest weakness. That’s a polite way of saying that Marcus Johansson probably wouldn’t be a second-line player on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations

    Does this mean that the Ohgren pick was a failure? 

    Of course not. But it’s easy to feel like a letdown when there were such high expectations only a month ago. However, playing on Minnesota’s second line all year might have been Ohgren’s best-case scenario. 

    So, what’s a realistic expectation moving forward? 

    Early returns on Liam Ohgren are encouraging, even if he’s not on the superstar track. Before his NHL debut in April 2024, Ohgren had an encouraging pedigree. The Wild took him in the first round of the 2022 draft after a strong showing in Sweden’s minor leagues.

    Ohgren built on that in the two seasons after the draft, ascending to the SHL (Sweden’s professional league) and improving upon his strong junior scoring numbers. Jumping from junior hockey to professional hockey, where grown men rather than junior players defended Ohgren, is a major milestone for any prospect. 

    That improvement is especially noteworthy, given that he dealt with injuries in 2022-23 and 2023-24. 

    It might be hard to remember after crazy rookie seasons from Kaprizov, Boldy, and Faber. However, those are encouraging returns for a draft pick from the end of the first round. For Wild fans who followed the last generation of prospects, Ohgren should look pretty familiar. 

    Compare his scoring numbers to Mikael Granlund’s and Jason Zucker’s. The below graphs show an advanced metric called NHL Equivalent Points (NHLe). Byron Bader developed this particular NHLe model from HockeyProspecting.com

    Ohgren vs Zucker HP card.pngOhgren vs Granlund HP card.png

    NHLe translates points-per-game from other hockey leagues into a full NHL season by factoring in league difficulty. For example, points in the Swedish pro league count more than Swedish juniors. It also gives more credit for goals and primary assists than secondary assists to make it more predictive of future performance. NHLe isn’t a perfect metric as it only includes offensive results, but players who score at an elite rate in minor leagues often do so through effective two-way play. 

    Specifically, what stands out here is Ohgren’s NHLe in D2, or the second season after he became draft-eligible. Last season, Ohgren proved that he had not only healed from his injuries but also developed into a better player who could perform at the professional level. Ohgren’s D2 NHLe was 48, Granlund’s was 47 in Finland’s professional league, and Zucker’s was 38 in the NCAA. It’s impressive that Ohgren put up those numbers, given he was returning from injury. 

    However, compared to Boldy and Kaprizov’s numbers and early returns in the NHL, Ohgren belongs in a different tier of prospects. Ohgren is much closer to Zucker and Granlund from the minor league data. 

    Kaprizov vs Boldy HP card.png

    Does that mean that Zucker and Granlund make acceptable comparables? 

    Diving deeper into all three players’ paths to the NHL, they look increasingly similar. Ohgren and Granlund are the easiest to compare since they came through the Swedish and Finnish prospect systems. Both spent significant time at the professional level the year before the draft, though Ohgren only played about half of his games in the SHL, while Granlund was a full-time player in Finland’s Liiga. 

    Zucker spent his pre-draft year in the US National Team development program (USNTDP), which is somewhat similar to Ohgren’s time in Sweden’s league for players under age 20, the J20 Nationell. Both are junior level programs, but the USNTDP plays games against opponents younger than 18 in the USHL. 

    The similarities continue after the draft. Ohgren and Granlund became full-time productive players at the professional level, with the obvious caveat for Ohgren being that his scoring dropped while recovering from his injury that year. By the end of the year, he scored at a torrid pace in the SHL playoffs. Zucker improved after leaving the USNTDP to play college hockey, and his NHLe numbers immediately caught up with Ohgren and Granlund’s. 

    Granlund, Zucker, and Ohgren remained in the same league for their D2 seasons, and each increased their offensive production. Ohgren flew overseas after the SHL season, played three games in Iowa, and saw his first NHL action. Zucker also played six NHL games after the NCAA season. 

    Ohgren has been ineffective in his NHL action. However, he’s been exceptional in Iowa, potting four goals in four games as of this writing. That’s also on par with Granlund and Zucker’s D3 performance. Granlund split time between Iowa and Minnesota, playing 27 NHL games but producing only 8 points. His games in Des Moines, however, were extremely productive. Zucker played 20 NHL games and 55 in Iowa. Like Granlund and Ohgren, Zucker produced far better in Iowa than in Minnesota. 

    All three players had similar journeys to the NHL. Barring a disaster at the AHL level or an unforeseen breakout during this injury call-up, Ohgren should remain on the Zucker-Granlund track.

    Zucker and Granlund developed into top-six forwards. At the peak of their prime, they were true top-line players. That provides a rough vision of the career Liam Ohgren may have. 

    The problem is that Zucker and Granlund don’t provide much clarity to project Ohgren’s near future because their paths diverged after D3. After the 2013 playoffs, in which they posted one goal and one assist each, Granlund became a full-time player in Minnesota while Zucker remained on the roster bubble. Ohgren could follow either of those paths or end up somewhere in the middle. 

    In addition, both Zucker and Granlund struggled to find consistency until around age 24. Liam Ohgren will turn 24 in the 2028-29 season. That doesn’t align with the Wild’s “five-year plan,” which owner Craig Leipold implied ends 2027-28. 

    That puts Minnesota in a complicated position with their young Swedish winger. The Wild need help in their top-six forward group, but they don’t need it on the Zucker/Granlund timeline; they need it now, or at least within the next one or two seasons. It’s unlikely that Ohgren will accelerate his timeline. With injuries in each of his past two seasons, we shouldn’t take for granted that he’s already in the AHL.

    Ultimately, it’s not the worst problem to have. With a deep prospect pool and hopes of a Stanley Cup by 2028, the Wild will likely trade some prospects to improve the NHL roster. Whether Minnesota deals him away or holds him for the future, Ohgren’s career will be rewarding -- for himself and the Wild organization.  

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    3 hours ago, Protec said:

    Apparently Hunt, Milne, and Ogie, have gone back to IA. It was perhaps some kind-of switcheroo with some coming up, and few going down. Okay...

    I gotta think ogzy stays in Iowa for next month or two.  Let the journeyman make the trips back and forth while ogzy gains confidence and develops his game in the A.  
     

    didn’t see much from Mikey so not surprised he’s back in Iowa. 
    bring on BJ and Eddie Shore 

    #oldtimehockey

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    12 hours ago, Protec said:

    Dallas just dropped one to Anaheim. 

    MN needs to get healthy and get some depth production. 

    Make a play for a scorer at the deadline.

    I watched this last night.  Ottenger was not in net, but that wasn't really the reason they lost.  ANA outplayed DAL badly.  Maybe DAL was coming off a road trip or something but they didn't look like the DAL we played

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    Russo and LaPanta talk Rossi again, and LaPanta hints that Hynes isn't really sold on Rossi being physical or defensively sound.  Oh goodie.  It'll never end.

    Edited by Citizen Strife
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    5 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Russo and LaPanta talk Rossi again, and LaPanta hints that Hynes isn't really sold on Rossi being physical or defensively sound.  Oh goodie.  It'll never end.

    I think he tries.  He definitely puts in an effort, but I think he just doesn't quick stand up to the trees by the paint well enough.  I still firmly think that long-term Rossi will be a really good player, but as a winger.  I give him all the credit he deserves for trying, but I think he loses a lot of effectivity getting pushed around so much.  He spends more time trying to stay balanced than demonstrating the skill he has.

    I'd like to see him in Zuccarello's spot on the power play while Zuccarello is out.  He's got enough skill to fill in for him and do a lot of the same things.  He just needs a bit more space to do them.

    I'm also not opposed to trading Rossi at some point, but I'd want someone no older than 25/26 who is either on a decent contract with a couple more years on it or is willing to sign up for more years.  They'd also have to be comparable in production and a little bigger.  There's no way Ottawa makes that trade for Tkachuk, and anyone who thinks they take on anyone but a star player is fooling themselves.  They aren't trading their cornerstone unless they go full rebuild or they get another cornerstone in return - players I wouldn't trade at all.

    I do think we can improve on Rossi, but I'm not sure who that is.  What I have seen is a lot of wishful thinking and assumptions that other team's don't know the value of their players.  Our best bet at getting a star offensive player without cratering the team is finding a team in a rebuild situation who wants what we have in abundance - picks and prospects.  We can stand to part with a few, though if still say Buium, Wallstedt, and Yurov are off limits.

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    12 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Russo and LaPanta talk Rossi again, and LaPanta hints that Hynes isn't really sold on Rossi being physical or defensively sound.  Oh goodie.  It'll never end.

    Well if Rossi is against Bennett or Barkov, he's got a point. 

    Rossi has good games but he has no impact games too. Why? Is he built for playoffs physically, or does he play a nasty game. No, he's an undersized Euro skill guy. Will he be scoring goals much in playoff games when all the players are backchecking their ass off and 3v2s are a rarity? 

    Can Rossi or Spurgeon for that matter stop Marchment from getting to the net? I think they're saying eventually it comes down to those battles. They want more than an Ek/Rossi combo punch at center. It seems quite pragmatic and reasonable to me. 

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    What I don't get is why draft a guy who plays like Rossi does if you want him to play a different style?  He's an offensive minded center who plays hard, but won't be the first choice to be the uber defensive stopgap.  It just seems like he's unfairly maligned a lot like Fiala was.

    There always has to be that one guy.

    Edited by Citizen Strife
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    Add on to my point, something tells me Hynes won't like that Rossi caused a penalty or two against Montreal.  Even getting that PP goal later pretty much by himself wouldn't be enough to overlook that.

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    7 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    What I don't get is why draft a guy who plays like Rossi does if you want him to play a different style?  He's an offensive minded center who plays hard, but won't be the first choice to be the uber defensive stopgap.  It just seems like he's unfairly maligned a lot like Fiala was.

    There always has to be that one guy.

    Rossi was a best player available situation trap. Skill and scoring over-trumped the Wild's likely plan to select Lundell or Mercer. Now BPA method isn't bad necessarily cause you can trade the valuable guy later but MN missed at that time a chance to get the center who would have replaced Koivu with a new Koivu type guy.

    The creation of this situation in my opinion was sorta a fluke and sideways development. Not big hard blame on anybody, just how it goes sometimes. Now the Wild are looking at Rossi becoming what we hoped but it's 4-5 years later and what the Wild need is more of a Lundell or perhaps Frederic type guy. Here's the near Thanksgiving picture of who's in a playoff position. Might be some players becoming available sooner than later.

    46.jpg.35f9bee125075c5c43e914198c941ee1.jpg

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    13 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    What I don't get is why draft a guy who plays like Rossi does if you want him to play a different style? 

    Now you're asking the right questions.  Did Guerin & Co. think he was going to be a 60 pt guy from day 1 and increase every season thereafter??  And they're disappointed he's not there yet??

    Russo and the Panther led me to believe Wild mgmt isn't happy with his defensive assignments, more so than they're happy about the offense he's creating.  This much is evident with Hynzinator's in-game demotions recently.

    But Pewter, Rossi reacts by scoring...maybe (Rossi + Hynzy) = (Fiala + Evason)

    Rossi has proven to be a good soldier but I don't think that's enough to keep him around, unless his market value is less than Wild brass thinks it is.

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    I've never said Rossi is untradeable.  What my concern has been is why is it "Yurov or Rossi, not both?"  Even if Yurov ends up a better overall player, Rossi being a 2nd or 3rd line winger or center shouldn't be discounted if there's not an amazing market.  You can sign Rossi for lower money or less term if you're not content with his defensive skillset.  Cutting bait comes with a risk of saying, "Well, Hartman's just as good, and hard nosed to boot."

    Yeah, and 10 years older.  Yurov and Heidt are unproven, Khusnutdinov is a defense-only guy, and Hartman and Gaudreau are old.

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    7 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Add on to my point, something tells me Hynes won't like that Rossi caused a penalty or two against Montreal.  Even getting that PP goal later pretty much by himself wouldn't be enough to overlook that.

    Maybe, but I don't think it's personal at all. The Wild could keep Rossi in another role or down the lineup but top center for a player who intrinsically is a skill & finesse guy isn't really a fit. Not another Ek or Koivu replacement who can be a shutdown center AND chip in 40pts plus as an aside. Rossi is the 40pt guy who as an aside TRIES to defend against powerful NA players.

    It's not really a criticism, but if you need a hammer, you don't use a screwdriver.

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    2 hours ago, Protec said:

    Maybe, but I don't think it's personal at all. The Wild could keep Rossi in another role or down the lineup but top center for a player who intrinsically is a skill & finesse guy isn't really a fit. Not another Ek or Koivu replacement who can be a shutdown center AND chip in 40pts plus as an aside. Rossi is the 40pt guy who as an aside TRIES to defend against powerful NA players.

    It's not really a criticism, but if you need a hammer, you don't use a screwdriver.

    Then put him in a position to succeed. Isn't it on the coach? Why haven't we tried him at wing if they aren't happy with his defensive play? FFS why is Nojo getting second line wing minutes, while Rossi is relegated to third line duty on a checking line? Rossi is the tool and the coaching staff are picking what to use for the job. Hell, I see more glaring issues with Zucc's defensive play than Rossi's yet Hynes seems fine with that.

    I hear what you guys are saying and agree. He will never grow 6" and put on 50lbs to be a power forward. Then why are we expecting him to fill that role? Why not set him on a wing with Bolds or Zucc opposite and let him be that secondary scoring we have been crying about for years. He clearly has the skill to put up numbers, regardless of who is on his line. He has been an asset to this team and will continue to be. Quit trying to put a square peg in a round hole and use his strengths as they are. Trading our top prospects or many NHL players for one is not the answer for the long term. Draft capital is meant to be spent in situations like this, but we need to get the dead weight out of the lineup first. 

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    I'm 100% with you guys on some I'd the coaching decisions. Rossi is unique cause like a Caufield has great qualities. He's gonna need a raise and he's not really the type of 2C/1C you need in the Central. He doesn't have MacKinnon-McDavid-McSpeed.  speed, and he's a smaller defender. That's a tough break cause Rossi belongs In an NHL top six. MN needs Zuccy to retire and play Rossi at wing or just trade him so we can all move on. For Farabee straight up this off season maybe but that would definitely be a sideways move. 

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    59 minutes ago, Protec said:

    MN needs Zuccy to retire and play Rossi at wing

    Well Rossi is at least two years of development away from being on Zuccy's level anyways if he is lucky.   Zucc would be a good benchmark for Rossi.  I like it.

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    On 11/18/2024 at 2:10 PM, Justin Hein said:

    he'll probably produce as much as these guys did in spite of lesser foot speed.

    I think his footspeed is greater than Granny's was, probably more than Nino too.

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    On 11/19/2024 at 8:05 AM, OldDutchChip said:

    3 years is plenty of time for something to go wrong....

    The 2027 plan includes depth which will help tremendously especially come playoff time. This year is an example of a step in that direction. Last nites game against Edmonton is an example of a team getting exploited with just one high end line. Edmonton coach even broke up their dynamic duo in a 5-3 loss. They had 4 injured players. I think BG and OCL will push all the chips in at some point. Not sure when. The owner appears to be getting impatient IMO. Nashville is an example of a team pushing the chips in prematurely. 

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    37 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

    The 2027 plan includes depth which will help tremendously especially come playoff time. This year is an example of a step in that direction. Last nites game against Edmonton is an example of a team getting exploited with just one high end line. Edmonton coach even broke up their dynamic duo in a 5-3 loss. They had 4 injured players. I think BG and OCL will push all the chips in at some point. Not sure when. The owner appears to be getting impatient IMO. Nashville is an example of a team pushing the chips in prematurely. 

    i understand, but nashville's core is also much older than ours and they doubled down on that and i guess decided that old geezers need more old geezers....

    with our current core - it's much different. kaprizov and ek are in their prime. boldy i believe has entered his. goalie situation is somewhat stable with Gus (and likely only Gus...) and our D is playing amazing - really amazing. Brodin and Spurge are aging too, so waiting 3 years may be a bit of risk there, unless you feel Zeev can come in and offer the same. 

    i guess i just don't think a team should pass up the opportunity as this seems like a good year to go for it. 

    i also feel that yesterday's game was Rossi's worse game. Might be the decided game for what the Wild will do. 

    Edited by OldDutchChip
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    Nice total team win by our boys.  I'm beginning to believe our hot start is not a mirage, and that Hynzy gets the credit for turning the same group of players into a different team vs last year.

    Now on to our favorite lumber wagon.  He is the Pee Wee who's 5 inches taller than the other 13 year old and he belongs on a B2 team but the coach likes his size so he picks him for B1 and the parents are forced to watch this over matched player fight their way thru an entire season.

    Lumber Wagon drinking game: drink every time he falls to the ice.  Drink double when he falls backwards onto his butt.  stock up party people!

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    25 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

    The 2027 plan includes depth which will help tremendously especially come playoff time. This year is an example of a step in that direction. Last nites game against Edmonton is an example of a team getting exploited with just one high end line. Edmonton coach even broke up their dynamic duo in a 5-3 loss. They had 4 injured players. I think BG and OCL will push all the chips in at some point. Not sure when. The owner appears to be getting impatient IMO. Nashville is an example of a team pushing the chips in prematurely. 

    Nashville is an interesting case. I'm not certain they made a huge blunder with their signings. They're a good team on paper but the problems they've had aren't unlike the Wild's problems last season. I think Nashville will bounce back eventually. STL has lost the team synergy they had and Utah has yet to put things together. MN, Dallas, and Winnipeg have some things in common. 2+ standout scoring threats, great goaltending, depth, and solid defense. Colorado is creeping up too.

    MN will really want to maintain a top spot if they want a nice playoff position to play a weaker team round one. It's a long way off but a huge grind. Winning the Cup means beating or avoiding the other best teams in the NHL who are also in the Central. MN will have to stay healthy and find ways to get better than they've been to this point. It looks good so far but it seems like there is a missing piece to round out the roster ahead of the deadline.

    Calgary will be a good challenge. Mnfaninnc's guy Zary will be out there coming off a GWG against NYR. MN will need to play another good road game.

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