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  • Liam Ohgren Is Showing Us the Difference Between A Good Prospect and A Great One


    Image courtesy of David Gonzales-Imagn Images
    Justin Hein

    In recent seasons, Minnesota Wild fans have been spoiled by seeing what a future superstar looks like in their first NHL games. Kirill Kaprizov scored an overtime winner in his NHL debut, Brock Faber looked right at home in playoff action, and Matt Boldy catalyzed Kevin Fiala’s career year in 2021-22. 

    It’s safe to say that Liam Ohgren didn’t make the same impression. While there was hope that Ohgren could play a full-time NHL role and solve Minnesota's secondary scoring, he was unimpressive in his seven NHL games this year. 

    To open the regular season, the coaching staff played Marcus Johansson on the second line instead, leaving Ohgren on the fourth line, which didn’t maximize his skillset. Eventually, the Wild sent Ohgren down to Iowa. Then, when the NHL club needed an AHL call-up, they promoted Michael Milne instead of Ohgren. 

    It’s not the optimal outcome for the Wild this year. Secondary scoring is the team’s biggest weakness. That’s a polite way of saying that Marcus Johansson probably wouldn’t be a second-line player on a team with Stanley Cup aspirations

    Does this mean that the Ohgren pick was a failure? 

    Of course not. But it’s easy to feel like a letdown when there were such high expectations only a month ago. However, playing on Minnesota’s second line all year might have been Ohgren’s best-case scenario. 

    So, what’s a realistic expectation moving forward? 

    Early returns on Liam Ohgren are encouraging, even if he’s not on the superstar track. Before his NHL debut in April 2024, Ohgren had an encouraging pedigree. The Wild took him in the first round of the 2022 draft after a strong showing in Sweden’s minor leagues.

    Ohgren built on that in the two seasons after the draft, ascending to the SHL (Sweden’s professional league) and improving upon his strong junior scoring numbers. Jumping from junior hockey to professional hockey, where grown men rather than junior players defended Ohgren, is a major milestone for any prospect. 

    That improvement is especially noteworthy, given that he dealt with injuries in 2022-23 and 2023-24. 

    It might be hard to remember after crazy rookie seasons from Kaprizov, Boldy, and Faber. However, those are encouraging returns for a draft pick from the end of the first round. For Wild fans who followed the last generation of prospects, Ohgren should look pretty familiar. 

    Compare his scoring numbers to Mikael Granlund’s and Jason Zucker’s. The below graphs show an advanced metric called NHL Equivalent Points (NHLe). Byron Bader developed this particular NHLe model from HockeyProspecting.com

    Ohgren vs Zucker HP card.pngOhgren vs Granlund HP card.png

    NHLe translates points-per-game from other hockey leagues into a full NHL season by factoring in league difficulty. For example, points in the Swedish pro league count more than Swedish juniors. It also gives more credit for goals and primary assists than secondary assists to make it more predictive of future performance. NHLe isn’t a perfect metric as it only includes offensive results, but players who score at an elite rate in minor leagues often do so through effective two-way play. 

    Specifically, what stands out here is Ohgren’s NHLe in D2, or the second season after he became draft-eligible. Last season, Ohgren proved that he had not only healed from his injuries but also developed into a better player who could perform at the professional level. Ohgren’s D2 NHLe was 48, Granlund’s was 47 in Finland’s professional league, and Zucker’s was 38 in the NCAA. It’s impressive that Ohgren put up those numbers, given he was returning from injury. 

    However, compared to Boldy and Kaprizov’s numbers and early returns in the NHL, Ohgren belongs in a different tier of prospects. Ohgren is much closer to Zucker and Granlund from the minor league data. 

    Kaprizov vs Boldy HP card.png

    Does that mean that Zucker and Granlund make acceptable comparables? 

    Diving deeper into all three players’ paths to the NHL, they look increasingly similar. Ohgren and Granlund are the easiest to compare since they came through the Swedish and Finnish prospect systems. Both spent significant time at the professional level the year before the draft, though Ohgren only played about half of his games in the SHL, while Granlund was a full-time player in Finland’s Liiga. 

    Zucker spent his pre-draft year in the US National Team development program (USNTDP), which is somewhat similar to Ohgren’s time in Sweden’s league for players under age 20, the J20 Nationell. Both are junior level programs, but the USNTDP plays games against opponents younger than 18 in the USHL. 

    The similarities continue after the draft. Ohgren and Granlund became full-time productive players at the professional level, with the obvious caveat for Ohgren being that his scoring dropped while recovering from his injury that year. By the end of the year, he scored at a torrid pace in the SHL playoffs. Zucker improved after leaving the USNTDP to play college hockey, and his NHLe numbers immediately caught up with Ohgren and Granlund’s. 

    Granlund, Zucker, and Ohgren remained in the same league for their D2 seasons, and each increased their offensive production. Ohgren flew overseas after the SHL season, played three games in Iowa, and saw his first NHL action. Zucker also played six NHL games after the NCAA season. 

    Ohgren has been ineffective in his NHL action. However, he’s been exceptional in Iowa, potting four goals in four games as of this writing. That’s also on par with Granlund and Zucker’s D3 performance. Granlund split time between Iowa and Minnesota, playing 27 NHL games but producing only 8 points. His games in Des Moines, however, were extremely productive. Zucker played 20 NHL games and 55 in Iowa. Like Granlund and Ohgren, Zucker produced far better in Iowa than in Minnesota. 

    All three players had similar journeys to the NHL. Barring a disaster at the AHL level or an unforeseen breakout during this injury call-up, Ohgren should remain on the Zucker-Granlund track.

    Zucker and Granlund developed into top-six forwards. At the peak of their prime, they were true top-line players. That provides a rough vision of the career Liam Ohgren may have. 

    The problem is that Zucker and Granlund don’t provide much clarity to project Ohgren’s near future because their paths diverged after D3. After the 2013 playoffs, in which they posted one goal and one assist each, Granlund became a full-time player in Minnesota while Zucker remained on the roster bubble. Ohgren could follow either of those paths or end up somewhere in the middle. 

    In addition, both Zucker and Granlund struggled to find consistency until around age 24. Liam Ohgren will turn 24 in the 2028-29 season. That doesn’t align with the Wild’s “five-year plan,” which owner Craig Leipold implied ends 2027-28. 

    That puts Minnesota in a complicated position with their young Swedish winger. The Wild need help in their top-six forward group, but they don’t need it on the Zucker/Granlund timeline; they need it now, or at least within the next one or two seasons. It’s unlikely that Ohgren will accelerate his timeline. With injuries in each of his past two seasons, we shouldn’t take for granted that he’s already in the AHL.

    Ultimately, it’s not the worst problem to have. With a deep prospect pool and hopes of a Stanley Cup by 2028, the Wild will likely trade some prospects to improve the NHL roster. Whether Minnesota deals him away or holds him for the future, Ohgren’s career will be rewarding -- for himself and the Wild organization.  

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    15 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

    Yeah! look at Nashville this year. They pushed all there chips in for free agency and are now.....6-10-3.

    But hold on, what about the leafs in 2023? They swung big with Max Domi, Klingberg and Bertuzzi. Oh right, they flamed out in the first round.

    We aren't running out of road and the end of this year we will finally be able to untie one hand from behind our back with the cap hits. Just because you go big in free agency doesn't mean you come home with the cup. Truth is, we don't have the team to go deep this year, even with the addition of some TDL pickups(with what money, who the heck knows). Our prospects have yet to develop in the NHL capacity and any of them other than Rossi we would be selling low on instead of possibly getting a top 6 guy on an ELC. With the NMC and NTC's we have there are very few we can move easily, some of which will be expiring next year before we *possibly* lose Kap. 

    I like the angle of spending on July 1st after we see if we can lock up Kap to an extension. We can't spend money that needs to be allocated to him. Rossi is still an RFA and you can take him to arbitration to keep his hit lower. We "lose" Merrill and Mojo and get some room to move around. Declan, Lauko and Khus will be reasonable contracts. We could get to see what Buium and Yurov look like and have a better idea of what we will be getting and what kind of track that Ohgren and Milne are on. Unless one of the injuries we currently have ends up being a long term issue I don't see much of value on offer for the TDL. That could change, I am just referring to the upcoming UFA's

    Yeah! look at Nashville this year. They pushed all there chips in for free agency and are now.....6-10-3. Well Stamkos will be 35 in couple of months and his best days are behind him.....I am suggesting Tuch and Tkachuk - whose best days are still ahead of them. Why not add Vegas to the list instead? Their plan succeeded. 

    But hold on, what about the leafs in 2023? They swung big with Max Domi, Klingberg and Bertuzzi. Oh right, they flamed out in the first round. I wouldn't call that going for it. We all seen Klingberg play and Domi and Bertuzzi are not Tkachuks. 

    I like the angle of spending on July 1st after we see if we can lock up Kap to an extension. Patience then....so you are with status quo approach .... and what if Kap says on Jul 1 "thanks but i'll will evaluate all my option the following year"....what then? that is exactly what he'll say IF we don't change his mind this year. we've had this convo before. That's my gut feeling. We stay pat - Kap does not sign Jul1 and we are done. Zuccy will leave. Kap will leave. But we will have our prospects. We will always have our prospects. OTHER Teams will win. But MN teams will always have hope for next year. hahaha

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    1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Patience then....so you are with status quo approach .... and what if Kap says on Jul 1 "thanks but i'll will evaluate all my option the following year"....what then?

    Well not sure what else we can do when we have very little money available at the deadline. Even is we send Nojo, Trenin Rossi and Yurov we still can't afford Tkachuk this year lol. Then we still need to backfill those spots. Just bring up AHLers and one player is going to make up for losing 3 starting players? If we can make it into the second round this year it proves we are serious and with the additions to come in free agency I think Kap will want to stick around. So far we have been playing well, and could possibly make it there with our current crew.

    I think Yurov and Rossi together will be far superior to what we get out of Tkachuk. No shade on Tkachuk, you are just willing to send a 23 yr old who is still developing and our 2nd best prospect. Those are tall shoes to fill. I get Tkachuk lines up better timeline wise, but it will also gut our up and coming players.

    And yes, much like you, I can cherry pick situations to illustrate my point.  

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    I still think we can grab a cheaper option in FA to add to the team or maybe a lower level trade , wish we could have got Oreilly the guy just plays hard .  a guy like that would be perfect for the top 6 . 

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    2 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

    Well not sure what else we can do when we have very little money available at the deadline. Even is we send Nojo, Trenin Rossi and Yurov we still can't afford Tkachuk this year lol. Then we still need to backfill those spots. Just bring up AHLers and one player is going to make up for losing 3 starting players? If we can make it into the second round this year it proves we are serious and with the additions to come in free agency I think Kap will want to stick around. So far we have been playing well, and could possibly make it there with our current crew.

    I think Yurov and Rossi together will be far superior to what we get out of Tkachuk. No shade on Tkachuk, you are just willing to send a 23 yr old who is still developing and our 2nd best prospect. Those are tall shoes to fill. I get Tkachuk lines up better timeline wise, but it will also gut our up and coming players.

    And yes, much like you, I can cherry pick situations to illustrate my point.  

    No shade on Tkachuk, you are just willing to send a 23 yr old who is still developing and our 2nd best prospect. yes, i am. nothing is guaranteed with a prospect. and i would ship rossi and him immediately if that would do it for Tkachuk, a player in his prime, coming out of 37 goal season and is projected to approach close to 100 pts this year.

    not sure what cherry picking you referring to, but i believe we can fit in Tkachuk's salary if need be. And you don't think Kap, Zuccy, Tkachuk, Boldy and Ek can carry this team further than unproved Rookie and Rossi? silly. look what his brother just did to FL. 

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    Rossi's already earmarked as a 50 pt player or more, and Yurov might do even more.  Ohgren (hopefully) nets the 30-40 range on the back end, and you get most or all of them for cheap.  You also have to consider that Nyquist at 35 years old got what, 75 points (a personal record) for chump change just by being put in the right scenario?  Even if he doesn't do that again, his contract makes it a moot point due to how fucking cheap it is.  You don't have to be the biggest, baddest bitch on the ice to score.  Aren't people always saying that Kap makes people around him better?  Then surely it's not really necessary to pawn off a lot of money when you could, "oh, I don't know, " see the Kap and Boldy line again and replicate results.  The team gets younger and younger too.  Another byproduct of letting younger guys play their way up and throw older guys out.  You want a Johansson replacement?  Yurov gets you that for free, if he'd decide to actually fucking move here.

    You can get production without breaking the bank on a flashy name.  Kaprizov, Faber, and Boldy should be the only people we need to break the bank for, unless someone like Yurov or Buium do it.  But by all means.  Keep risking sustained futures on a plan that sounds risky at best and potentially crippling at worst.  Waiting a year to see if Buium or Yurov mean something doesn't kill the "break free agency glass in case of emergency" scenario.  Delay it and weigh the options.

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    6 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Rossi's already earmarked as a 50 pt player or more, and Yurov might do even more.  Ohgren (hopefully) nets the 30-40 range on the back end, and you get most or all of them for cheap.  You also have to consider that Nyquist at 35 years old got what, 75 points (a personal record) for chump change just by being put in the right scenario?  Even if he doesn't do that again, his contract makes it a moot point due to how fucking cheap it is.  You don't have to be the biggest, baddest bitch on the ice to score.  Aren't people always saying that Kap makes people around him better?  Then surely it's not really necessary to pawn off a lot of money when you could, "oh, I don't know, " see the Kap and Boldy line again and replicate results.  The team gets younger and younger too.  Another byproduct of letting younger guys play their way up and throw older guys out.  You want a Johansson replacement?  Yurov gets you that for free, if he'd decide to actually fucking move here.

    You can get production without breaking the bank on a flashy name.  Kaprizov, Faber, and Boldy should be the only people we need to break the bank for, unless someone like Yurov or Buium do it.  But by all means.  Keep risking sustained futures on a plan that sounds risky at best and potentially crippling at worst.  Waiting a year to see if Buium or Yurov mean something doesn't kill the "break free agency glass in case of emergency" scenario.  Delay it and weigh the options.

    Yurov may not even be playing for us next year! Stop assuming prospects turn out as best case scenario. Be happy if he gets here and assume he needs acclimation period of a year. The same can be applied to Ohgren - he is not ready. You want to place your bets on prospects - go for it. I hope Billy doesn't share your sentiment and hope he ship out at least one at the trade deadline. 

    Keep risking sustained futures on a plan that sounds risky at best and potentially crippling at worst.  Waiting a year to see if Buium or Yurov mean something doesn't kill the "break free agency glass in case of emergency" scenario.  keep risking what? we have been building towards a future for the last 30 years. the future is now. you have a superstar that may walk in a year and you are worried about some possible second line winger at best? Waiting a year for Yurov to see that - surprise - he needs more time to adjust - no problem Kap will wait. It's only his prime years after all. His GF will understand. "Listen Edina is just like Moscow in the fall honey". Yeap. 

     

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    What future is now?  The team missed the fucking playoffs last year.  If the team had some sustained yearly 2nd or 3rd round playoff success, I'd be all for risking everything.  They aren't, and may never be there.  You're very hung up on the Kap thing, acting as if one shiny toy is going to make them playoff contenders or keep him here.

    This has been a promising start to the season.  That's all it is.  I'm not going to go out of my way to change the trajectory of the team on a whim.  That's what Fletchers do.

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    5 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    What future is now?  The team missed the fucking playoffs last year.  If the team had some sustained yearly 2nd or 3rd round playoff success, I'd be all for risking everything.  They aren't, and may never be there.  You're very hung up on the Kap thing, acting as if one shiny toy is going to make them playoff contenders or keep him here.

    This has been a promising start to the season.  That's all it is.  I'm not going to go out of my way to change the trajectory of the team on a whim.  That's what Fletchers do.

    who cares if we missed a playoffs last year? are we not allowed to contend because we missed a playoffs the previous year? oh right - MN thing - you dare not talk about playoffs or winning.

    let's wait until we are very sure. like maybe next time we have a superstar....actually no next time we have a top 3 player.....actually no next time we have a top 3 player who is from MN! there now you are getting excited!

    Kaprizov - shiny toy? no he is one of the 3 most dominant players in the league! proceed as normal. one of us or none of us. he will sign or he will leave and we will bring in brocks to replace him.

    and it makes perfect sense with your hate of fletcher haha the one who drafted Kap! yeap such a horrible no good GM. we'd be better off with stephen vellieux or that buffoon we drafted - Stramel i believe - that kid has game. yeap. 

    how much longer for a winner billy? two weeks!

    image.png.d79aa6a7730d3873a1b4527b3fb91ecf.png

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    Cool.  Throw away all your chips then.  Call me again in April when Minnesota still can't get past a Dallas brick wall.  You need more than an unproven shiny toy (I was talking Brady, not Kap by the way).  You need 23 guys good enough to beat another 23.  They got close.  That's not enough.  At least if Minnesota as constructed slam headfirst into an Otter, they have more guys to work with later on.

    But sure.  Keep thinking what Kap needs to win is one running buddy.  He needs 22.

    Edited by Citizen Strife
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    10 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Cool.  Throw away all your chips then.  Call me again in April when Minnesota still can't get past a Dallas brick wall.  You need more than an unproven shiny toy (I was talking Brady, not Kap by the way).  You need 23 guys good enough to beat another 23.  They got close.  That's not enough.  At least if Minnesota as constructed slam headfirst into an Otter, they have more guys to work with later on.

    But sure.  Keep thinking what Kap needs to win is one running buddy.  He needs 22.

    go ahead and keep fearing Dallas and wait for the right moment. then someone else will take their place. it will either be Dallas or Jets or Preds or Avs or anyone else. But Wild will bite their time - MN way. one day. quiet sad. 

    you know even if we fail and loose, i'd still appreciate that we went for it. and maybe Kap will too. but to give up on Kap's prime and give him no support now when the team is playing unbelievable is something "interesting"....maybe we don't deserve a winner if our fans are hoping for continuous mediocracy. to say - Kap needs to wait few more years (even though he likely is gone in half the time) for some unknown prospect to make it, who will likely be an undersized, underskilled but very over valued and over hyped is moronic. Kap WILL say - why did Vegas went for it and got Stone and Eichel? Why did Florida went for it and got Tkachuk? Why did we do NOTHING? yeap that's the place i want to be at. place where people are afraid to take a chance. 

    we'll talk in April OK

     

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    Trade Rossi, Ohgren, Height and Trenin for Brady T

    Also trade a prospect and higher pick not named Yurov and zeev to get Tuch

    Also trade spurgeon for pucks for salary dump this deadline or next summer to get another solid RHD. 

    Go for it all next year!!

    Edited by mnhockeyfan03
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    9 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    Has it not be enough time for us! Who is with me?

    I’m with you with a caveat. 2027. I’ll take a slow, methodical, ascension. Let these first round picks develop a bit and clear out dead weight. Come on ODC it’s only 3 years! Plus each year the Wild should look better and go farther in the playoffs. 

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    58 minutes ago, Protec said:

    Make a play for a scorer at the deadline.

    I’d say this is almost guaranteed. Someone they can extend next year and wants to be here. This is a strong methodical approach. Start next year with a better top six and a  chance at winning a playoff round this year. 

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    I can't do it. I can't pay premium for Tuch back when we gave him away for tiddlywinks. I also don't think Tuch would be that psyched about it. Also statswise he is Rossi-like, he is also playing on a line with a Unicorn Center & not really carrying the 200' responsibility load the same way Rossi is.

    I keep thinking on the money though. Most those teams you reference that went all-in on FA had extra $$ to burn. The cited failure teams were more often than not in the Wild's boat of "make it work" financially.

    So then we are talking about an even more top-loaded team with less depth available... Then, since it is the wild, our new FA toy is injured & now we have 0 depth to replace it with. I'm musing though. I am not totally opposed to another big R. wind with power-forward attributes... The Tuch one is just because I hate to buy high on our own stupid faux-pas... Frickn protect Dumba at all costs, obviously stings me still 

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    My guess is Hynes doesn't want Ohgren dicking around the 4th line anymore when most of the forwards are healthy.  Jones and Shore seem like more suitable bottom forward options right now.

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    9 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

    I’m with you with a caveat. 2027. I’ll take a slow, methodical, ascension. Let these first round picks develop a bit and clear out dead weight. Come on ODC it’s only 3 years! Plus each year the Wild should look better and go farther in the playoffs. 

    3 years is plenty of time for something to go wrong.....and for Minny fans we all know too well that most of the time - it does go wrong. 

    spacer.png

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    I've got it!!!

    Somebody get Hossa's elbow-pads and sneak em into NoJo's bag on the road. "Oops, gotta wear em."

    #90 gets career-ending skin-itch and the Wild are forced to get a new L2 winger. 

    😀

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