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  • Is Danila Yurov A Better Prospect Than Marco Rossi?


    Image courtesy of David Gonzales-USA TODAY Sports
    Tony Abbott

    It's not telling tales out of school to say that you'll have to wait a little while to see Danila Yurov's name on Hockey Wilderness' just-launched 2024 Top-10 Minnesota Wild Prospects series. It's also not a surprise that Marco Rossi won't appear on that list -- because he's no longer a prospect.

    But that doesn't prevent these two youngsters from going head-to-head on someone else's list. Yurov and Rossi squared off on Corey Pronman's NHL Pipeline Rankings. In it, he ranked Minnesota's Under-23 crop as the 10th-best in the NHL, then ranked the organization's players.

    The great thing about Pronman is that he's a bit of an iconoclast. Prospect rankings can sometimes be subject to groupthink, but Pronman isn't afraid to think for himself. It produces fascinating results. He ranked Caedan Bankier sixth over Liam Öhgren (seventh), while Riley Heidt is outside his top 13 and is mentioned in his "Has a chance to play" tier.

    You can't say he's not willing to be bold.

    However, the biggest flashpoint among the Hockey Wilderness brain trust is where Rossi and Yurov land on his list. Rossi is third, and Yurov is fifth. It's not a crazy ranking for Yurov, at least among prospects. He's still in the top-3 behind 2024 first-rounder Zeev Buium and 2021 first-round goalie Jesper Wallstedt. That's more-or-less in line with the consensus.

    Rossi over Yurov, though? That's out there, at least to some. Rossi did fine as a rookie last year, scoring 21 goals and 40 points in a full season. But haven't you seen what Yurov has done in Russia? He scored 21 goals and 49 points in 62 games, besting Vladimir Tarasenko's KHL record for most points by an under-21 player. The same Vladimir Tarasenko who will score his 300th career goal sometime next season.

    If you're also finding this ranking absurd, that's reasonable. Remember that the further away a prospect is from the NHL, the easier it is to believe they can be anything. Fans and media don't start toning down the expectations until they arrive, and we start to get checked with reality a bit.

    That process has arguably already happened with Rossi. In 2020, Pronman stated, "I see a player who will put up a lot of NHL points... I could see him become a first-line center, but maybe toward the lower end of the spectrum in the league in that role."

    However, those hopes dropped precipitously as Rossi's slow trek to the NHL progressed. The 40-point season rebounded them somewhat, but there are still doubts -- reportedly even within the organization -- of whether the young Austrian is truly a top-six-caliber center.

    Meanwhile, Yurov's star is still on the rise. He hasn't given us reason to doubt him yet. So, how do you value one versus the other? It's a tricky proposition.

    As for me? I'm throwing in with Pronman on his rankings. Why? There will be exceptions, such as Kirill Kaprizov and Matt Boldy, who instantly prove to be the real deal. But for most prospects? That shoe is going to drop, at least a little. Because of that, I tend to give the edge to a player producing in the NHL.

    Whatever you want to say about Rossi's flaws, I know the guy can score 20 goals without playing top power play minutes. I've seen it. Maybe Yurov is Tarasenko and provides 30 goals in the bank throughout his prime. Or maybe he's Denis Gurianov. Sure, I think Yurov will be good... but do I know?

    There are exceptions to every rule, and I have circumstances where I'll break my own guidelines. If you've got a superpower? A tool in your skill set that isn't just going to play in the NHL but stand out? That's when you get to jump the line as a prospect.

    Yurov's a top prospect. Elite Prospects just ranked him 46th on their Top-100 Affiliated Prospects list. The Athletic's Scott Wheeler is even higher on him, putting him at No. 30, ahead of top prospects like Utah's Dylan Guenther and the recently traded Rutger McGroarty. He's got a high floor and a high ceiling.

    But what's his superpower? Here's how Wheeler describes Yurov: "If you were to fill up two buckets with his tools -- one for his strengths, and one with his weaknesses -- the bucket with his strengths in it would be overflowing, and the one with his weaknesses would be nearly empty."

    Hell yeah, we'd love to see that. But again, where's the superpower? Elite Prospects grades tools on a 2-to-9 scale, with 5 being average and a score of 7 or higher being a high-end NHL-caliber skill. Yurov's physicality is a 5, and that's his lowest score. His skating and puckhandling merit a 6.5 grade, which falls just short of that high-end grade.

    Pronman also agrees with that assessment of Yurov, grading his puck skills and shot as "Above NHL average" and his skating, hockey sense, and compete level as "NHL average." Again, that's awesome. There are no superpowers to be found, though.

    However, that prompts the question: What is Rossi's superpower? Let's take a look at what prospect heads were saying about Rossi before last season -- when he had zero goals and one point to his name over 19 NHL games.

    Elite Prospects' grades broke down thusly:

    Skating: 5
    Shooting: 7
    Passing: 7.5
    Puckhandling: 7
    Hockey Sense: 7.5
    Physical: 5

    That's four high-end tools there, and two that are especially high-end. For comparison, Rossi's passing ability was graded as equivalent to Utah's Logan Cooley and the San Jose Sharks' Will Smith. His hockey sense was graded as being on par with Smith and Leo Carlsson of the Anaheim Ducks. After the 20-goal season, Pronman graded Rossi's hockey sense as "High-end."

    It's a superpower more subtle than Kaprizov's edge work and shot and Matt Boldy's puckhandling through traffic. But it is a superpower, nonetheless. If you've got 14 minutes, you can see the superpower at work when watching his 21 goals. 

    Rossi shows a lot of traits here. The hand-eye coordination and hard work around the net are consistently great. But watch these goals back-to-back-to-back-to-back, and you'll appreciate how often he's in the right place. How he can sneak into those pockets of space to get a shot off without even being touched.

    That's a superpower.

    I'm not saying the scouts can't be wrong about Yurov's lack of a superpower. Maybe his hands are that superpower. Perhaps his skating keeps improving with age and strength. But if he has one, he'll have to prove it in the NHL. Rossi has it, so he gets the edge in this debate for now.

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    I couldn't give two shits about how Yurov plays in Russia.  I didn't give a shit about Kaprizov, Boldy, or Faber's hype until they played in green either.  Same with Rossi.

    Rossi has scored 40 pts for the Wild, with Wild players, up and down the lineup.  In most cases, he was usually the driving force of the line unless he was with Kaprizov and Boldy.  Then, it was almost even, or at best, he did what he was supposed to do and carry his weight and not fuck up.  There's every chance Rossi gets better, or has a slump.  You just don't know.  That's how competition works.

    If Yurov ends up better than Rossi, that's a good problem for Guerin to have.  That's two guys who hit, making up for prospects who didn't.  For all we know, Yurov and Rossi play together, making each other better.  I'll just wait to see what Yurov does if or when he puts on a Wild sweater.

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    His skating and puckhandling merit a 6.5 grade, which falls just short of that high-end grade.

    He's not a 7-9?  Can we plug this data point into the hype machine?

    and his skating, hockey sense, and compete level as "NHL average."

    Not bad, but not quite the 2nd coming

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    Oh Conman...

    Analysis of Rossi 2023:

    Quote

    Rossi made Minnesota out of camp but struggled to stay in the lineup. He was good in the AHL in the second half and then at the World Championships for Austria. Rossi is a very intelligent center who can create a lot for his teammates through his excellent offensive creativity and vision. He can create in transition and from a standstill running a power play. Rossi struggled at times in the NHL due to his frame and as a good-but-not-great skater. But he showed at the worlds he can play versus men due to his compete and skill and as a good enough skater. I think with time, the same will happen in the NHL and he could be a top-six forward — if he stays down the middle it’s likely more of the 2C variety.

    Analysis of Rossi in 2024:

    Quote

    Rossi had a productive season with the Wild, scoring 40 points. He’s a highly skilled and intelligent center. He can run a power play off the flank and has the vision to make a lot of tough plays to teammates. He isn’t that big, but he plays with courage. He gets to the net to create offense and wins back a surprising number of pucks versus men for his size. His skating isn’t great, though, for his frame. He’s shifty but not fast, and he’ll need to score more to be an asset given those limitations. Rossi projects as a third-line center or second-line wing who can help a power play

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    He has Rossi(#3), Wallstedt(#4), and Yurov(#5) all relatively even in his tier of, "Bubble top and middle of the lineup player", so could fall on either side of that. You could scramble all 3 of them and argue who's ahead in that 3-man category, but it all comes down to preference.

    Buium and Faber are ahead of all 3 in his NHL All-star and Top of Lineup Player tiers. He doesn't project either of them having players ahead of them for the top line.

    I think it's fair to say Rossi is ahead in his NHL ability, having already delivered a solid season at age 22(turns 23 before th season), but I'd rank Yurov higher on potential, moving Rossi to 4th or 5th. Wallstedt turns 22 late this year and Yurov turns 21 in December.

    In points/60 minutes 5v5(minimum 12 games), Rossi finished inside the top 200 forwards, along with Kaprizov, Boldy, Eriksson Ek, Hartman, Zuccarello, and Foligno. Rossi was just outside the top 180, 1 spot ahead of Mikael Granlund.

    Rossi was ahead of only Foligno in that list above, but a solid top 6 finish among Wild forwards. Given that Yurov is besting Kaprizov's numbers in the KHL at equivalent ages, I think it's reasonable to anticipate he might be a top 5 Wild forward once he arrives.

    Kaprizov was immediately the best player on the team at age 23, and it would absolutely be wrong to think Yurov will be at his level, particularly at age 21 starting next season, but it wouldn't be completely shocking to see him develop into a top 180 player before age 22 and be a top line player before age 25.

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    Did Russo or Pronman ever play hockey? Nothing personal but my opinion of hockey writers is not that sweet. 

    This kind of opinion stuff is good for clicks and discussions but meaningless in the big scope. It highly qualifies as counting chickens before they hatch. Yes, some players have shown enough to deserve some hype but we've all seen examples of both failure and success by blue-chip, 18yo kids and blue-collar, late-round nobody's. 

    Since four Summers ago, only last year did we get a taste of Guerin/Brackett prospects. I don't care what ranking the Wild's pool is given, or by who. It's set in stone, these are who they picked. McBain McBailed on the Wild, and WHL or OHL leaders don't get ordained NHL all-stardom. 

    Toronto still can't win when it counts, with top picks coming out their ears. We can watch the moves play out and hope for the best. It's a roll of the dice and you gotta catch a break sometimes. Philly trading #12 overall this last year seemed like a goofy idea but hey we'll see. 

     

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    35 minutes ago, Protec said:

    Did Russo or Pronman ever play hockey? Nothing personal but my opinion of hockey writers is not that sweet. 

    This kind of opinion stuff is good for clicks and discussions but meaningless in the big scope.

    Hallelujah.  Russo is more Sid Hartman gossip columnist than great hockey mind.  That's not meant to be an insult to Russo because bro has been putting in the work for years and even though I can't make sense of it he's really the only real hockey reporter in the State of Hockey.

    But if I'm looking for a ranking of our prospect pool I'd rather get Ryan Carter's opinion than maybe anyone else.  Cart's know's his shtuff.

    Edited by Pewterschmidt
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    I've mentioned it before and I will probably mention it again but...Rossi is a mirror image of Brad Marchand at this point in his career.  I'm not saying he will develop into Marchand but he definitely has a chance. Intelligence and work ethic are there....

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    if Yurov is in fact 5th rated prospect, this is going to hurt Wild. the hype machine was in full force this summer saying how he is the next big russian import and now he is below Rossi? no no this is not what we were expecting! shit he was THE one great russian after michkov who is not yet in NHL (and michkov is here so he is now the ONLY one at this point on top) his game also translates much better to NHL than Michkov's with his built and drive and he just broke KHL records right? .....and now 5th? cause he is not as good as our little Rossi? HA this is a debacle if its true. based on outcomes and hype he should have landed at worse - second spot, right after faber (i'd actually throw out faber from the list , cause he is obv no longer a prospect, but whatever). so if true - this is a nightmare for our offensive prospect line. 

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    1 hour ago, Patrick said:

    I've mentioned it before and I will probably mention it again but...Rossi is a mirror image of Brad Marchand at this point in his career.  I'm not saying he will develop into Marchand but he definitely has a chance. Intelligence and work ethic are there....

    how is he a mirror image of one of the game's toughest player to play against and fantastic skill wise too. i am really curious? was Marchand timid, and knocked around? 

    i could say this - 

    Rossi is a mirror image of Igor Larionov at this point in his career. I'm not saying he will develop into Larionov but he definitely has a chance. Intelligence and work ethic are there....

     

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    3 hours ago, Patrick said:

    I've mentioned it before and I will probably mention it again but...Rossi is a mirror image of Brad Marchand at this point in his career.  I'm not saying he will develop into Marchand but he definitely has a chance. Intelligence and work ethic are there....

    but, for Rossi to get to Marchand level, he's got to lick someone's face!

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    I'm going to double down with Tony andCitizen, it doesn't really matter until they are showing it in a wild sweater.

    At this point rossi has shown he's capable at an nhl level. He has the edge. Now, he could regress but I think he's going to get better opportunities within the lineup and (I truly hope) continue to progress.

    Yurov could very well come over and look like the next tarasenko or kk (which is what I hope) at thar point he exceeds rossi depending on if and how much rossi progresses. Ultimately I don't care which ends up being better if they both end up as top 6 or, dream scenario, superstars. The latter is a big ask but I try to be optimistic(not my usual take on things mn sports).

    As for Russo, I like him. I have followed him along time when he was just breaking in with the strib. I always thought he was a straight shooter and did more to actually report to the fans. To compare him to sid, the biggest brown noser and egotist is an insult.

    I remember reading and exerp many years ago with Brian Rolston saying he respected Russo and the fact that Russo didn't sugarcoat it. They played great, he would tell them. When they didn't, like it or not, he would call them out. 

    I've liked reading/hearing his thoughts. Along with Lou nanne, Carter, and now tony. You can disagree a ton and still be a huge fan. I wished all mn beatwriters were more blunt than being brown nosers but not when it is not necessary.

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    I'm not particularly fond of the model, essentially because if you're not a rookie anymore that's not really a prospect. But, according to the logic, under 23s who have experience should be rated higher. For instance, my top 3 would be Faber, Rossi, Wallstedt, simply because all 3 have debuted. You could also make a case that Hunt should be rated in the top 13. It's a fine line between what has been produced and what is potential. 

    Now, if we are only grading potential and using the balance sheet approach where this is a snap shot in time, then you have to go with who's most ready to make the N. Again, Faber and Rossi have to top that list. The Wall probably makes it too, as I expect him up more often this season. Next on the list I'd stick Buium and Yurov. That's a terrific top 5. 

    But, who really cares about the list? Seriously, it's a nice reminder about who's in the pipeline, but until they start making it to the N, doing what is necessary to physically be N ready, and improving their skills anyone can come from anywhere to make the team. Who had Duhaime on their radar to make it? Mikey Milne could follow that same trajectory this season. 

    I do like how they rank Bankier, though. That shows he has more promise than we thought. Another interesting snub is a Rieger Lorenz. It appears that what is being rated here aren't players who will make the N in their prospective roles, but who puts up the points. Lorenz and Stramel may very well be staples in the lineup, though they play on the 3rd line, an important line. Or, maybe we install a top line, 2 2nd lines and a shutdown 4th line? (a concept I've been wanting for a long time). You just keep rolling the lines, except for line 4 gets the opponent's top line and neutralizes them.

    On defense, I think we have some good prospects. However, we are starting to get to the point of which current players do we keep (longterm) and which do we let go? Midsy has something none of the others have: size. You need a couple of guys like that on your roster, even if one of them is a 7th. The guys coming up do not have great size yet. They've got to get decent size to battle. And then, which ones do we trade out to get what we need? Some of these prospects are great to have in the pipeline and may very well be N players, just not in green.

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    5 hours ago, Patrick said:

    I've mentioned it before and I will probably mention it again but...Rossi is a mirror image of Brad Marchand at this point in his career.  I'm not saying he will develop into Marchand but he definitely has a chance. Intelligence and work ethic are there....

    I assume you mean simply the stats?  Not necessarily style of play?

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    Look at Rempe, not a stats king. Faber wasn't a huge scorer but became a top 3 player for the Wild almost immediately. Soucy crept up in the past. You get the pleasure of waiting to see. At least the Sokolov or Khovanov type Russians have been replaced with some legit KHL studs cause that was pretty shifty looking back.

    Fair to ranks team's prospect pools every Summer. Once National writers begin ranking individuals, you're entering the fluff-zone if you asked me.

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    Rossi still has a lot to show and work to do.  Let’s see him go into a corner and lay a hit instead of trying to do a little bump and also come away with the puck.  After the hit if he doesn’t come away with the puck let’s see him catch back up to the play.  Last year if he was in the corner he wasn’t fast enough to catch back up to the play.  His first 5-10 steps are not fast.  Will see what sort of work he has put in this offseason.  He needs to hit and not just bump people and get back up to speed fast.  That will make him a much more valuable player.  I am not high on Rossi but he can prove me wrong but needs to show it against the better big physical teams. We are building this team for the playoffs not the regular season. 

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    1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

    Not Wild related, but still...what the fuck.  Apparently he and his brother were hit by an oncoming car while out cycling last night.  This really sucks for Columbus, and the NHL as a whole.

    Ugh, absolutely devastating. I just read on the Athletic that their sister's wedding is supposed to be today too. So heartbreaking. 

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    10 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

    Rossi still has a lot to show and work to do.  Let’s see him go into a corner and lay a hit instead of trying to do a little bump and also come away with the puck.  After the hit if he doesn’t come away with the puck let’s see him catch back up to the play.  Last year if he was in the corner he wasn’t fast enough to catch back up to the play.  His first 5-10 steps are not fast.  Will see what sort of work he has put in this offseason.  He needs to hit and not just bump people and get back up to speed fast.  That will make him a much more valuable player.  I am not high on Rossi but he can prove me wrong but needs to show it against the better big physical teams. We are building this team for the playoffs not the regular season. 

    I love big hits, probably more than anyone here. But to put a requirement like this on Rossi I think is a little overkill. There's a difference between flybys, which I cannot stand, and bumps to knock a guy off balance, and then just creaming a guy in the corner (which still had not happened to Morrissey for the Staal cross check). Flybys are inexcusable, but it a player can bump a guy off balance and steal the puck, I have no problem with that, and I've seen Rossi do it. He's got the leverage to pop someone like that too.

    But, for the real big hits, guys need to be a little further up the scale, like in the Ek class, or even the Foligno class of players. On a different topic, this is exactly the problem that O'Rourke has run into. He wants to play a game that needs an Ek class type body and is trying to use a Beckman class body to do it. There is only 1 outcome here, injury. It would be one thing if he was playing like Spurgeon's height and that weight, but he's not, he's playing a little taller than Faber is. 

    This is why we need guys like Foligno, Trenin, Lauko, Middleton and Bogosian. They can change the course of a game and momentum with a big hit. Our home crowd cheers wildly when the big hits come. It gets the whole bench awake. We haven't used this tactic enough, IMO, but I think Heinzy likes to use it more than Evason did. 

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    2 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

    https://www.nhl.com/bluejackets/news/columbus-blue-jackets-statement-on-the-passing-of-johnny-gaudreau

    Not Wild related, but still...what the fuck.  Apparently he and his brother were hit by an oncoming car while out cycling last night.  This really sucks for Columbus, and the NHL as a whole.

    I saw the headline which didn't mention the star player. What a tremendous hit for CBJ. 😥 One of the most used cliches is that nobody cries over another team's troubles. I think this is an exception.

    While sadness still follows, and I don't mean to be insensitive, and perhaps this is even the wrong time to ask the question, what happens with his contract? Does CBJ eat the whole thing and send it to the family? Does he get LTIR'd for the remainder or does this just fall off their balance sheet? 

    Likely, the team is insured for such a disaster, and the salary gets paid that way, but still, you never want to ever have to use that insurance! 

    I remember how devastating it was when Corey Stringer died in Vikings' training camp. Torpedoed the whole season. The team really never recovered that year. I believe the Vikings had to eat the whole contract against their cap. Now, this is a little different because it happened on the player's own time, not team related, so I wonder how that gets handled in the CBA?

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    23 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

    I love big hits, probably more than anyone here. But to put a requirement like this on Rossi I think is a little overkill. There's a difference between flybys, which I cannot stand, and bumps to knock a guy off balance, and then just creaming a guy in the corner (which still had not happened to Morrissey for the Staal cross check). Flybys are inexcusable, but it a player can bump a guy off balance and steal the puck, I have no problem with that, and I've seen Rossi do it. He's got the leverage to pop someone like that too.

    But, for the real big hits, guys need to be a little further up the scale, like in the Ek class, or even the Foligno class of players. On a different topic, this is exactly the problem that O'Rourke has run into. He wants to play a game that needs an Ek class type body and is trying to use a Beckman class body to do it. There is only 1 outcome here, injury. It would be one thing if he was playing like Spurgeon's height and that weight, but he's not, he's playing a little taller than Faber is. 

    This is why we need guys like Foligno, Trenin, Lauko, Middleton and Bogosian. They can change the course of a game and momentum with a big hit. Our home crowd cheers wildly when the big hits come. It gets the whole bench awake. We haven't used this tactic enough, IMO, but I think Heinzy likes to use it more than Evason did. 

    Agree I am not talking big hits just being physical.  I saw many fly bys last year or just half effort hits.  Against big strong teams as well I saw them just push him out of the way and he would fall down.  That’s what I want to see an improvement on and also more speed to catch up from behind. 

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    13 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

    I assume you mean simply the stats?  Not necessarily style of play?

    Stats, height and weight are virtual identical.

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    17 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

    how is he a mirror image of one of the game's toughest player to play against and fantastic skill wise too. i am really curious? was Marchand timid, and knocked around? 

    Lol. Rossi goes to the paint more than any player on the Wild besides Ek.  😂😂😂 But yeah "timid"

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