Filip Gustavsson Can Alleviate Fears During Worlds

5 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

The biggest risk with this is that we may not be in playoff position. The upside is that we would know which young guys have the best upside.

Last season, with the team we had and the injury clusters we had, I think that was abnormal and we were still in it at the TDL. I would expect with new young talent making the roster, we will probably be in no worse shape than we were this past season.

Yes, the upside is that we would know which young guys can move up a level. I'm sure you'll also get some good hustle from them, along with "teachable" moments and inconsistencies. To me, I believe it takes a couple of years to acclimate to the N, so I'd start that now. If you're in the hunt, even just barely, 2 $7m players might put you over the top. 

I also don't think we need to be shooting for a top 2 finish in the division. Being competitive and looking at the 3 slot or WC slots can be done here. Add those players, a healthy Spurgeon in the playoffs and I think we can compete. 

Now, this doesn't take away my recommendation on trying to pry Tkachuk out of Ottawa, or McTavish out of the Ducks, or Lindstrom out of the draft. Those would be franchise changing moves. 

Not big on the whole send away Gus angle right now. I think Fleury is cooked and expecting him to take on 1B duties is going to be too much for him. Guerin spent 2.5M on a coach for Wallstedt. Why not just hire him as a coach? I have a whole lot more faith in Gus to have a bounce back year than for Fleury to return to form. 

Still baffled that the two players we are looking to send elsewhere are Rossi and Gus. The trade remorse is going to be real when Rossi develops into a 60-70pt player and Gus gets used to having a kid at home, reverting to his previous form. 

It sounds like a set up for a major letdown. Guerin has done well to get what he has in trades so far but with both these guys where they are in their careers, it seems very foolish to move on from either.

56 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

I wouldn't have signed Fleury this next year.  I would have brought up Wallstedt and let him spell Gus on back to back games. 

I think Fleury was signed to give Guerin the freedom to trade GUS this off-season if a good offer comes along.  I don't mind this move at all.

Now if Wallstedt proves this season that he's not the second coming of Pattie Roy and GUS stays with Wild and goes pear shaped again next season, well then it's time to start getting pissy.

Wild Goalie Gate is predicated on Wallstedt becoming a legit NHL #1, and soon.  Pretty soon Fleury skates are going to have velcro straps.

#seniorcitizenhottake

17 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I also don't think we need to be shooting for a top 2 finish in the division. Being competitive and looking at the 3 slot or WC slots can be done here. Add those players, a healthy Spurgeon in the playoffs and I think we can compete. 

I think either way the team would be stronger.  I would be okay with this.  I really do hope that BG doesn't just sit and do nothing.  That would be a mistake.

4 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Pretty soon Fleury skates are going to have velcro straps.

Now that is funny.  

I would have preferred to keep Gus.  But since we have Fleury for the year I would do like you mentioned and move Gus.

1 minute ago, MNCountryLife said:

I really do hope that BG doesn't just sit and do nothing.  That would be a mistake.

He's got to make this into Heinzy's team. Evason's guys are not Heinzy's guys and that was pretty evident. Heinzy doesn't strike me as the kind of coach who likes flyby stick checks or cardio shifts. He seems to me to be a guy who likes larger bodies, finishing checks and a little extracurricular pushing and shoving. He may even have cash bonuses for face washes!

Heinzy goes top heavy and then down the roster. Evason broke that up into spreading the wealth. Heinzy will use the Oester line blender, Evason threw his away. Evason could make these guys work in his system, Heinzy is looking to jettison some guys. And in meetings with Shooter, Heinzy probably has a lot of input on who is not up to snuff in effort. 

3 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

I would have preferred to keep Gus.  But since we have Fleury for the year I would do like you mentioned and move Gus.

Goose should be kept. Last time I looked, reputation doesn't stop pucks and that's about all Fleury has going for him. He is definitely in Knowledge Transfer mode of his career. It would not surprise me if we ran with 3 goalies this year. Fleury's numbers were against significantly more offensively challenged teams. I suspect if you play The Wall in those games, you'll get a better performance. 

But, a lot can be done in training camp. If Goose and The Wall really impress, perhaps we can have Fleury retire and move into an assistant goalie coach/taxi squad goalie (unofficial) in a "break glass in case of emergency" role? We regain $2.5m and can parlay that into a serious player at the TDL.

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Goose should be kept

This is where I disagree.  Fleury isn't going anywhere next season.  BG wants him to retire here.  I have confidence in the Wall putting up similar numbers to Gus.  Making Gus expendable.  Gus is a streaky goalie.  Once Fleury retires we can find a backup to Wallstedt.  I get why everyone wants to keep Gus.  He is currently our best goalie.  But we need the money and will be better served with another quality player in the lineup.... or doing what you mentioned.

11 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

This is where I disagree.  Fleury isn't going anywhere next season.  BG wants him to retire here.  I have confidence in the Wall putting up similar numbers to Gus.  Making Gus expendable.  Gus is a streaky goalie.  Once Fleury retires we can find a backup to Wallstedt.  I get why everyone wants to keep Gus.  He is currently our best goalie.  But we need the money and will be better served with another quality player in the lineup.... or doing what you mentioned.

Yes, but Fleury retires after this year and then we are left in the lurch trying to play one goalie 60-70 games in his second season and his first as the clear starter.

So what happens after this? or an even better question; Fleury has slowed down significantly already, if he takes another step back is he even a serviceable 1B for Wall's first year?

Where we should've saved money was by not signing Fleury for his reputation. 

Can you imagine if Wall isn't ready and has to take on a 1A role with our only other option as a 40yr old Fleury who got rained on against the easy competition last year? If you thought last year's goaltending was a disaster, it will pale in comparison to that plausible scenario. 

Gus Bus is the more reliable option to bridge that gap. Even if his play last year is his ceiling he is still a serviceable 1B. I can't really say I have that faith in a goalie going on 40. I know Fleury is an anomaly already but do you honestly want to bet he can beat father time?

8 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Where we should've saved money was by not signing Fleury for his reputation. 

No disagreement there.  But BG did.  So we are stuck with that decision.  He won't be traded. We know that. He said he would retire before playing somewhere else.  

I think it should also be noted that Fleury finished the year well.  He mentioned he felt better at the end of the year and it showed.

I guess the distinction between our views boils down to this.  Run with Gus and Fleury at 6.25AAV or run with Wallstedt and Fleury at 3.425.  The latter gets you close to what you need to sign a higher end player.  I choose the latter.  Yes, it could bite me in the end if the Wall doesn't perform or if Fleury implodes due to age.  But when you are down $14M in cap space you have to take risks.

How do people think we are going to be successful with an old broke down flower and a rookie goalie tandem? Does this not seem like a terrible idea to get rid of him? The wall has nowhere near enough experience to take the reins right now especially with our crappy defense depth. Flower has proven he’s not a starter and he’s only going to get worse next season.

if this means we finish at the bottom of the league I’m all for it but I don’t see how this is going to make us better if that’s what you’re going for. Ideally the wall gets some starts while Gus takes most of the games. I really don’t understand why we still have fleury.

3 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Not big on the whole send away Gus angle right now. I think Fleury is cooked and expecting him to take on 1B duties is going to be too much for him. Guerin spent 2.5M on a coach for Wallstedt. Why not just hire him as a coach? I have a whole lot more faith in Gus to have a bounce back year than for Fleury to return to form. 

Still baffled that the two players we are looking to send elsewhere are Rossi and Gus. The trade remorse is going to be real when Rossi develops into a 60-70pt player and Gus gets used to having a kid at home, reverting to his previous form. 

It sounds like a set up for a major letdown. Guerin has done well to get what he has in trades so far but with both these guys where they are in their careers, it seems very foolish to move on from either.

 Could not agree more. I don’t understand why this is even an option. Sounds like they are setting up the wall for failure.

1 hour ago, MNCountryLife said:

I think it should also be noted that Fleury finished the year well.  He mentioned he felt better at the end of the year and it showed.

That's where the stats disagree with his assessment and your eyes. In his last 10 games, he had an .878 save percentage and a goals against average over 3.2.

His last 6 games were particularly poor, with just 1 win and an .833 save%.

11 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

That's where the stats disagree with his assessment and your eyes. In his last 10 games, he had an .878 save percentage and a goals against average over 3.2.

Perhaps my eyes did deceive me.  Stats have their place.  I stated my case against Nojo using plus/minus stats.  Nojo fails my eye test and the stat test.  There is also a relationship between the Team and the Goalie that exists to prevent goals.  The players in front did nothing to help Fleury or Gus for much of the season.  I am not saying that Fleury is as good as Gus.  But the difference between them is not major either.  Getting Spurgeon back should make Middleton dramatically better.  Faber will be better in his 2nd year and Brodin is still our Best D-man.  Those 4 should help our goalie stats no matter who is in net.  I won't dismiss the eye test solely on stats....but they do have their place.

1 hour ago, Mateo3xm said:

How do people think we are going to be successful with an old broke down flower and a rookie goalie tandem? Does this not seem like a terrible idea to get rid of him? The wall has nowhere near enough experience to take the reins right now especially with our crappy defense depth. Flower has proven he’s not a starter and he’s only going to get worse next season.

if this means we finish at the bottom of the league I’m all for it but I don’t see how this is going to make us better if that’s what you’re going for. Ideally the wall gets some starts while Gus takes most of the games. I really don’t understand why we still have fleury.

I would have preferred to have Gus and Wallstedt as well.  I really do not understand the Flower signing.  Especially when we need Wallstedt to get playing time in the N this year.  We are basically set up to have Wallstedt spending the year in IA and we are out some extra dollars to sign someone to bolster the lineup.  All bad.  Although I wouldn't have called Flower an Old Broke down flower.  ouch.  

But that signing is done.  Now what?    I have argued that purging Gus, Freddy, Nojo and Goligoski gets you some play money to sign a coupe of quality $4M AAV upgrades.  I suppose you could do the same thing but keep Gus.  But that will impact the quality of guys available to us.  Or we could run with young guys and hope to be in the playoff race come TDL and look for some major upgrades with saved dollars for the playoff run.  Offers us a lot of flexibility.... and I certainly don't mind that.

Thoughts?

Urgency getting a good UFA or two. 

Don't force a trade.

Make a good pick at 13th. 

Easy as 1, 2, 3.

1 hour ago, MNCountryLife said:

I would have preferred to have Gus and Wallstedt as well.  I really do not understand the Flower signing.  Especially when we need Wallstedt to get playing time in the N this year.  We are basically set up to have Wallstedt spending the year in IA and we are out some extra dollars to sign someone to bolster the lineup.  All bad.  Although I wouldn't have called Flower an Old Broke down flower.  ouch.  

But that signing is done.  Now what?    I have argued that purging Gus, Freddy, Nojo and Goligoski gets you some play money to sign a coupe of quality $4M AAV upgrades.  I suppose you could do the same thing but keep Gus.  But that will impact the quality of guys available to us.  Or we could run with young guys and hope to be in the playoff race come TDL and look for some major upgrades with saved dollars for the playoff run.  Offers us a lot of flexibility.... and I certainly don't mind that.

Thoughts?

I think we are stuck with the moves Guerin made. I would love to get rid of Nojo and Freddy but no one will take them. We would literally have to give away draft picks at this point.

I think the better option is;

-Play a three goalie system, getting Wall as much time as possible while using Gus as a primary. 

-Waivers Nojo. We can't waive Freddy due to his NMC but shop him for a bag of pucks. 

- Don't clog up the team in free agency, let the kids play into their own. Trade them out for another prospect if they are ineffective.

-Dear god, don't f*cking trade Rossi

This looks like below,

Boldy Ek Kap

Ohgren Rossi Zucc

Foligno Dinov Hartman

Shaw Lettieri Raska?

Spurg Midds

Brodin Faber

Chisholm Bogosian

Merrill

Gus Fleury Wall

Still have 5M+ in spare cap space to fill holes or make acquisitions at TDL but we get to develop our young talent and get them up to pace in the N. That defense looks strong if Spurg comes back healthy. I think second line down ends up being a bit of a blender while you figure out where the chemistry happens. 

We would still have Heidt, Milne, Becky, Bankier and Kump if we wanted to switch folks out. We would need Heidt to start on a line to keep him in the N but it may be worth it depending on his camp

I would far rather lose a few games watching the kids play then lose games watching Billy's cardio heroes play another game.

7 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Yes, Wallstedt is behind 2 other goalies for Sweden right now, one of which had an .890 save percentage for the Flyers in 23-24. He may become better than Gus, but Sweden does not seem to believe he is better now.

If you want to say he's better than Fleury, I could believe that.

Then do you think it'd make KK97 more likely to stay if we run it back with the goalies that got us into a hole to start last season? To a much lesser extent it's like saying "We're keeping Nojo and Fraudie on the 2nd line...ready to sign an extension?"

I'd say a change is more enticing than running it back. We know Flower isn't going anywhere. So Gus is in play to be traded. We know what Gus is. The Wall might be better and that's the chance we have to take to keep KK97. 

We have Fluery because he makes his own decisions and Guerin is his yes man. I was a little surprised he only signed for one year I thought he might get two. I think had he asked he would have or maybe he got a handshake deal from Guerin like Gologoski did. 

I've said before Billy has his boy's club and Fluery has the key to the club house. Rossi is not in the club. Guerin makes too many decisions on who his buddies are. He does things on emotion  and not critical thinking. Faber was a pure luck deal. Gus came here on a who will take Talbot off my hands right now and if all you got is a bag of pucks I'll take it. 

Guerin is a one step forward two steps back kind of guy. 

9 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I'd keep Goose and see if he bounces back.

Stop right there! You have died of

 dysentery.

10 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

why trade any goalie, our system is still thin at that position?

$3.75m is not a bad price for an average goalie.

Flower and Gus aren't the future (starters at least). The Wall is. And Iowa has nothing more for The Wall. Get what we can for Gus and use his cap space to bolster the 2nd line.

Wasn't sure where to post this, so thought this was as good of a spot as any. All teams have played 3 games for the World Championship, and here's where the 10 Wild players stand so far: 

Skaters:

• Marcus Johansson (SWE): 2G, 3A, +6 (somehow leading the way of all Wild players in points!)
• Mats Zuccarello (NOR): 0G, 4A, +2
• Joel Eriksson Ek (SWE): 1G, 2A, +2
• Matt Boldy (USA): 1G, 2A, +1
• Marco Rossi (AUT): 1G, 2A, +4 (had an amazing last minute equalizer goal in the game against Canada today to erase a 6-1 deficit and force the game into OT)
• Jonas Brodin (SWE): 0G, 1A, +1
• David Spacek (CZE): 0G, 1A, -1 (only player that's a minus on Team Czechia)

Goalies: 

• Filip Gustavsson (SWE): 2W, .933 SV%, 1.50 GAA (one of the wins against team USA)
• Samuel Hlavaj (SLO): 1W, .907 SV%, 3.75 GAA (won the game against team USA)
• Jesper Wallstedt (SWE): Hasn't played a game yet, but could play against Kazakhstan 

Side note, Team USA + Coach Hynes have just 1 win of the 3 games so far. Granted, I think they've played a harder schedule (Sweden + Slovakia already) and I'm sure they'll be able to climb back up in the standings with their 4 remaining games (especially against France, Kazakhstan, and Poland). But, definitely not a great showing so far.

3 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

Flower and Gus aren't the future (starters at least). The Wall is. And Iowa has nothing more for The Wall. Get what we can for Gus and use his cap space to bolster the 2nd line.

Why would Gustavsson not be a future starter? He is a #1 goalie on his current team and better than some other #1 goalies around the NHL. Wallstedt might very well be better in time, but we don't know if that will happen in the next few seasons.

20 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

This is where I disagree.  Fleury isn't going anywhere next season.  BG wants him to retire here.  I have confidence in the Wall putting up similar numbers to Gus.  Making Gus expendable.  Gus is a streaky goalie.  Once Fleury retires we can find a backup to Wallstedt.  I get why everyone wants to keep Gus.  He is currently our best goalie.  But we need the money and will be better served with another quality player in the lineup.... or doing what you mentioned.

Let me try this from a different angle. If we trade out Goose, and elevate The Wall to starting goalie and making Fleury the backup, on paper, set up just like that, I would agree with you. However, there is a high probability that Fleury will suffer an injury, and also a pretty good track record on The Wall that he will too. He has gotten hurt in each season here, and had some injury history in Sweden. That leaves us with an unproven group in Iowa to come up and play in the N. 

Typically, we have played with 22 roster players. We carry 1 extra for defense and 1 extra forward. If The Wall is 23, we can work in 3 goalies, and Fleury takes on more of a coaching/knowledge transfer role. Maybe Fleury doesn't make as many away trips? Maybe he sees how The Wall and Goose are playing in training camp and hangs up his pads? 

So, if we went the route of trading Goose, we'd still need to hire a viable 3rd goalie in Iowa who could play up due to injury. McIntyre is not a viable option. Someone like a Louie Domingue might be, or a Michael Hutchinson? Now, they'd need to be playing to stay sharp. Does that cut down what we've got the new Chzeck goalie and the Wisconsin goalie doing in development? Does one of them head down to the Heartlanders? 

18 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

That's where the stats disagree with his assessment and your eyes. In his last 10 games, he had an .878 save percentage and a goals against average over 3.2.

His last 6 games were particularly poor, with just 1 win and an .833 save%.

And let's look at before that when we had to have games to stay in the playoff hunt. It was L after L. And with that it was giving up 3rd period leads. I get that both goalies did that, but, Fleury has a reputation of showing up big in big games. I thought he looked really good vs. Boston, but I'm not sure I can find other games against best competition where he shined. He certainly couldn't get us wins vs. Winnipeg. Or Dallas. Or St. Louis. 

Fleury played well against bottom 10 teams, but that was pretty much it. My eyes told me his reflexes were starting to go, and a goalie his size has to have his reflexes or he's toast. He can still retire and we recoup his $2.5m before the start of the season. We won't be able to use that money for much initially, but it grows substantially if we bank it and use it at the TDL.