Article: Brock Faber May Be the Biggest Winner Of the Quinn Hughes Trade

[Tony Abbott]

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[MNCountryLife]

I am betting that there are players out there that view MN as a desireable location to go now as well.  Who doesn't want to play with a couple of elite players that can feed pucks cleanly from stick to stick and make the game fun.

Solid goalies, exceptional defensemen and some dynamic forwards in Ek, Boldy and Kirill makes for an inviting roster.

[Patrick]

Since Faber and Hughes are both excellent when they have the puck does it make more sense to pair them with Brodin and Spurgeon rather than each other? 

[FredJohnson]

30 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Since Faber and Hughes are both excellent when they have the puck does it make more sense to pair them with Brodin and Spurgeon rather than each other? 

Great question…maybe change the pairings to match up with opponents?

[B1GKappa97]

39 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Since Faber and Hughes are both excellent when they have the puck does it make more sense to pair them with Brodin and Spurgeon rather than each other? 

You could, but it also makes them more dynamic to both be good with the puck on their stick. They can pass it between each other and you're not missing out on that aspect then. 

If you pair them with Brodin or Spurgy then you're limiting your offensive output with them on the ice. It'll be nice to have a shutdown pair of defensemen again. And a 3rd pairing of bruisers.

[bisopher]

4 hours ago, B1GKappa97 said:

It'll be nice to have a shutdown pair of defensemen again. And a 3rd pairing of bruisers.

Agreed, but I'd put Mids with Spurgeon (they work well together) and Bogo with Brodin for the 1st and 2nd periods, then pair Brodin - Spurgeon in the third.  Balance everyone's minutes better, and go full shutdown with four D when you need to.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

I'm tired of people calling Hughes "arguably" the best defenseman in the world.

Does anyone really want to make a case that he's better than Cale Makar?

They both are around 4 assists every 5 games, but Quinn Hughes has 62 goals in 460 games while Cale Makar has 126 goals in 427 games. Yes, Makar has scored goals at more than double the rate, and he's a better defender along with possessing better size.

Is anyone arguing that Quinn Hughes is better? Does anyone think that Colorado would trade Makar straight up for Quinn Hughes right now???

Quinn Hughes is good, but it's actually arguable that he isn't even top 3(Werenski and Heiskanen have more goals/points), especially considering the average defense of Hughes. He's an exciting player and an elite skater, but the hyperbole doesn't need to get overly ridiculous when describing him.

I certainly hope the Wild do well with him, but I really think we can wait on the Bobby Orr comparisons, at least until he has won a cup...

[B1GKappa97]

5 hours ago, bisopher said:

Agreed, but I'd put Mids with Spurgeon (they work well together) and Bogo with Brodin for the 1st and 2nd periods, then pair Brodin - Spurgeon in the third.  Balance everyone's minutes better, and go full shutdown with four D when you need to.

It's a shame that Jiricek hasn't developed as quickly as we had hoped. I do like the idea of a Middsy-Spurgy combo, because they have been great as you said. And that would keep a physical presence on the ice at all times. 

I just feel like putting Brodin with Bogo is kind of a waste though. Idk. Like maybe play Jiricek more in that instance so he can at least use his offensive abilities? 

A Brodin-Spurgy combo would at least let Spurgeon jump into the play at times and I think he's got better instincts for that than Bogosian does. 

[bisopher]

Here's another corollary: Is Faber (potentially) the best D partner Hughes has ever had?  If not, which of his partners in VAN was better?

[TCMooch]

9 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I'm tired of people calling Hughes "arguably" the best defenseman in the world.

Does anyone really want to make a case that he's better than Cale Makar?

They both are around 4 assists every 5 games, but Quinn Hughes has 62 goals in 460 games while Cale Makar has 126 goals in 427 games. Yes, Makar has scored goals at more than double the rate, and he's a better defender along with possessing better size.

Is anyone arguing that Quinn Hughes is better? Does anyone think that Colorado would trade Makar straight up for Quinn Hughes right now???

Quinn Hughes is good, but it's actually arguable that he isn't even top 3(Werenski and Heiskanen have more goals/points), especially considering the average defense of Hughes. He's an exciting player and an elite skater, but the hyperbole doesn't need to get overly ridiculous when describing him.

I certainly hope the Wild do well with him, but I really think we can wait on the Bobby Orr comparisons, at least until he has won a cup...

I think most NHL experts (like 99%) consider Quinn Hughes to be the 2nd best dman in the league behind Makar. Better than Werenski and better than Heiskanen. You can disagree but according to about everybody else that watches hockey and follows it at a national level--he's top 2.

 

[TCMooch]

[Scalptrash]

It's too bad Billy couldn't have traded Spurgeon or Brodin instead of Buium. It would have been incredible to see Zeev and Quinn on the same team. I know, impossible, but one can dream.

I think Zeev is out to prove he can be just as good as Quinn to show Billy he made a mistake. Best of luck...big shoes.

[mnfaninnc]

55 minutes ago, TCMooch said:

I think most NHL experts (like 99%) consider Quinn Hughes to be the 2nd best dman in the league behind Makar. Better than Werenski and better than Heiskanen. You can disagree but according to about everybody else that watches hockey and follows it at a national level--he's top 2.

Both defenders are really good, but I don't think you can separate them by statistics alone. For instance, Huck is talking about the goal differential between the 2. 

I would argue that having a trio of MacKinnon-Rantanen-Makar was better than anything Vancouver could put on the ice. Just like Tony was talking about the effect Hughes has on everyone else on our team, I think Makar's numbers were also affected by the talent surrounding him. 

So, then we go to the eye test. How is Makar performing within his system and now Hughes in ours? Does a trio of Boldy-Kaprizov-Hughes strike fear into opponents like Makar-MacKinnon-Necas? Obviously, the Avs have an advantage of speed, but maybe both of these trios are scary, and the Wild might have an advantage of power. 

Or, maybe we just look now at MN, CO, Dal and marvel at how much talent is in the Central Division, and getting out of the 1st round truly depends on a teams' health at the time of the series?

[mnfaninnc]

31 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

I think Zeev is out to prove he can be just as good as Quinn to show Billy he made a mistake. Best of luck...big shoes.

One thing I think we'll see is that all 3 of the players traded will get an increase in TOI and should actually develop faster than they would have here. Buium's rope got a lot longer and instead of playing 3rd pairing sheltered minutes, he jumps into top pairing 23 minutes a game. I thought he was learning quickly here, but that curve just got turned up.

[Willy the poor boy]

47 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

It's too bad Billy couldn't have traded Spurgeon or Brodin instead of Buium. It would have been incredible to see Zeev and Quinn on the same team. I know, impossible, but one can dream.

I think Zeev is out to prove he can be just as good as Quinn to show Billy he made a mistake. Best of luck...big shoes.

Not much (if anything at all) has been said about the fact Randolph didn't quibble and took Guerins first offer. I doubt he would've needed to throw in that first rounder. If they wanted our first Guerin should have sent Jiricek instead of Buium. JMO. 

[Scalptrash]

14 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Not much (if anything at all) has been said about the fact Randolph didn't quibble and took Guerins first offer. I doubt he would've needed to throw in that first rounder. If they wanted our first Guerin should have sent Jiricek instead of Buium. JMO. 

From what I've seen, there were a few other offers on the table (New Jersey, Detroit, Philly, Carolina), but no other team offered, or had, a Zeev Buium equivalent (Quinn's and Patrick's comments about it were very telling). That was the main reason they chose the Wild. Rossi was pretty much always going to a part of any big trade and Ohgren, plus the first, were the sweeteners that put it over the top.

There might even be some animosity towards New Jersey for not offering more, based on his comments and openness to stay in MN. They had their chance and didn't "sack up".

Some in Vancouver are saying they got too much, that they might be competitive again right away instead of tanking for the first overall pick.

Edited Tuesday at 04:33 PM by Scalptrash

[Willy the poor boy]

14 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

From what I've seen, there were a few other offers on the table (New Jersey, Detroit, Philly, Carolina), but no other team offered, or had, a Zeev Buium equivalent (Quinn's and Patrick's comments about it were very telling). That was the main reason they chose the Wild. Rossi was pretty much always going to a part of any big trade and Ohgren, plus the first, were the sweeteners that put it over the top.

There might even be some animosity towards New Jersey for not offering more, based on his comments and openness to stay in MN. They had their chance and didn't "sack up".

Some in Vancouver are saying they got too much, that they might be competitive again right away instead of tanking for the first overall pick.

Ya, they got a lot back. We're better now, they're better in the future. Zeev will be a stud.

[Tony Abbott]

11 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I'm tired of people calling Hughes "arguably" the best defenseman in the world.

Does anyone really want to make a case that he's better than Cale Makar?

They both are around 4 assists every 5 games, but Quinn Hughes has 62 goals in 460 games while Cale Makar has 126 goals in 427 games. Yes, Makar has scored goals at more than double the rate, and he's a better defender along with possessing better size.

Is anyone arguing that Quinn Hughes is better? Does anyone think that Colorado would trade Makar straight up for Quinn Hughes right now???

Quinn Hughes is good, but it's actually arguable that he isn't even top 3(Werenski and Heiskanen have more goals/points), especially considering the average defense of Hughes. He's an exciting player and an elite skater, but the hyperbole doesn't need to get overly ridiculous when describing him.

I certainly hope the Wild do well with him, but I really think we can wait on the Bobby Orr comparisons, at least until he has won a cup...

What do you want from your defenseman?

Makar is probably the best pure offensive defenseman in the world. Hughes is probably the best pure transition defenseman in the world. Both are probably on a "both teams say no" level of trade value. 

[Enforceror]

2 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Not much (if anything at all) has been said about the fact Randolph didn't quibble and took Guerins first offer. I doubt he would've needed to throw in that first rounder. If they wanted our first Guerin should have sent Jiricek instead of Buium. JMO. 

'Nucks GM was quoted somewhere saying "no others team's offer was even close."

So yeah, maybe we could have offered a 2nd instead or Jiricek instead of Buium (doubt it). I think BG was afraid of losing the opportunity though...

[MNCountryLife]

13 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Does anyone really want to make a case that he's better than Cale Makar?

Hughes has never played with a guy like Kirill.  Neither JT Miller or Elias Peterson are close.  He has played with some big D men but Faber, Spurgeon and Brodin are all skilled.  Not the dynamic players of Hughes... but I expect Hughest to bennefit from their talent as well.  I fully expect Hughes' numbers to be better with the Wild than they were with Vancouver.

McKinnon opens up a lot for Makar.  Dallas has several players that open up space for Heiskanen.  

I'm not saying that Hughes is better than these 2.  But I think the comparison numbers will be closer in the future with Hughes in Minny.

[Pewterschmidt]

16 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

'Nucks GM was quoted somewhere saying "no others team's offer was even close."

So yeah, maybe we could have offered a 2nd instead or Jiricek instead of Buium (doubt it). I think BG was afraid of losing the opportunity though...

Guerin won’t do a deal unless he’s assured to overpay by at least 35%

[Willy the poor boy]

8 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Guerin won’t do a deal unless he’s assured to overpay by at least 35%

Sad but true...

[Willy the poor boy]

31 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

'Nucks GM was quoted somewhere saying "no others team's offer was even close."

So yeah, maybe we could have offered a 2nd instead or Jiricek instead of Buium (doubt it). I think BG was afraid of losing the opportunity though...

You never know, the questionable part is he took the offer and didn't try to get more. I would guess that rarely happens in any professional sport. Reports are when MN. got involved it happened quickly.

[MNCountryLife]

33 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

'Nucks GM was quoted somewhere saying "no others team's offer was even close."

So yeah, maybe we could have offered a 2nd instead or Jiricek instead of Buium (doubt it). I think BG was afraid of losing the opportunity though...

Nucks GM also said No to all the other trades and kept looking.

Maybe we could have offered less... but maybe someone else would offer more and we missed out.  BG put out his best offer first and stole the show.  Gotta give it to the guy... when he is in on something he puts both feet in.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

2 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

What do you want from your defenseman?

I want strong defense, and some playmaking ability. If you're giving up more goals than you are generating, I'm less excited by the amazing skating. Also, the highlight goals that Makar scores are more incredible than the highlight goals I've seen from Quinn Hughes. He certainly might get more opportunities for points with Colorado, but he's also just insanely gifted.

I understand Vancouver is really poor right now(last in the league when they made the trade), but they did win without Hughes in their first game and the Wild were winning without Hughes prior to the trade. Boston had a rough night against an energized Wild squad, there's no question about that.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the future holds. I know a lot of people suggest Quinn Hughes is a top 2 defenseman, but he hasn't proven that to me yet. Hughes is an elite talent, but it's not clear to be at this point if he impacts the game more positively than all other defensemen in the league.

Werenski has 115 points in his last 113 games, and plays some PK minutes.

Quinn Hughes has 100 points in his last 95 games, with barely any PK minutes.

The point difference isn't enough between the two to make me think offense alone separates them. Who is the better defender? Werenski at least plays some penalty kill, so I'm guessing he might be.

It's certainly easy to argue that Quinn Hughes is a top 5 defenseman. Please note that Quinn Hughes finished behind Werenski in Norris voting last season, and I assume would be behind him up to this point this season. So, why wouldn't people consider Werenski to be arguably the 2nd best defenseman in the league?