Article: Which Bill Guerin Is Showing Up To the Kaprizov Negotiations?

[Tom Schreier]

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[Citizen Strife]

The unique dynamic is, "Name price, name years, name anything else you want, ok?  Done!"

[Pewterschmidt]

Tom, Great article!  Full of insight's, new perspectives (for me) and hot takes. 

This quote is why I’m not a fan of thin skin bill:

“This might sound harsh,” he said, “but if you’re betting on yourself with 15 million dollars in your pocket, that’s a pretty good safety net.

bill, just shut the fuck up sometimes.  Drag Rossi thru the mud for 6 months, win the signing in terms of AAV and term, and then spit in Rossi’s face.  What do you think this accomplishes?  Answer: it only further poison’s the well with a potential young star.  

Just too stupid for words

[Scalptrash]

I've always seen Billy as a frat boy who never grew up. Not only in how he looks, but also how he carries himself and in his personality. He is a bully, that much is obvious. He has absolutely zero respect for players that are smaller and weaker than he was. Unless, of course, they produce a point per game. He's just hates players like that because they are better than he was.

I also feel like he's just winging it, that he doesn't really have a long term (5 year?) plan. I don't think he has any idea how to build a championship team, even though he has played on them and has been in the front office of one.

I think Leipold was star struck at the chance of hiring such an NHL legend, and that was about it. Not much vetting, not really a solid resume, other than being on winning teams. Just next man up for a franchise that has chosen GM's and coaches poorly for nearly two decades. I will leave Lemaire out, because he was the only real coach the Wild has ever had.

I strongly believe he underpaid Rossi just so he could overpay Kaprizov. The two contracts will balance each other out. Which probably means $16M for Kaprizov. If Kirill is smart, and I will assume his agent is, he should wait until the trade deadline before signing anything. If he wants to win, he will know by then how close the Wild truly are. If he wants money, the longer he waits, the more he will get. I'm sure it drives Billy absolutely ape shit that he's not in control. Kaprizov is, 100%.

NHL hockey is my favorite sport to watch and the Wild are my favorite team, but damn, this soap opera they have going on in St. Paul sure makes it difficult. We should expect nothing less in Minnesota, however, they fit in quite well.

If they are ever going to even sniff a Stanley Cup, I think they need to clean house from top to bottom. My biggest hope is that Leipold sells the team, or at least hires someone else to run it. He has proven that he has no clue how to hire the right people. GM and entire coaching staff need to go. Several of the long time vets need to go. This team needs a ground up rebuild with proven and competent leadership at the helm. I know some people won't like that, because "we're so close. Just one or two more pieces". How many years will you fall for that crap? Watch Florida in the finals. Does anyone honestly believe the Wild are remotely close to that level?

Yes CS, I know this is confusing for you.

[MrCheatachu]

26 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

I've always seen Billy as a frat boy who never grew up. Not only in how he looks, but also how he carries himself and in his personality. He is a bully, that much is obvious. He has absolutely zero respect for players that are smaller and weaker than he was. Unless, of course, they produce a point per game. He's just hates players like that because they are better than he was.

Is this the same Bill Guerin who took a two handed slash the head to his own teammate in 2002 (a prospect, in training camp, who didnt make the team)?

Same BillyG wasn't disciplined by the stars because he just signed a 5x$6.7M (about 15% of the cap back then) which the Stars bought out the 5th season.

No way some little punk twerp who's smaller than him (NERD!) is going to make more than he did (20+ years ago)!

Edited 6 hours ago by MrCheatachu

[Scalptrash]

24 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

Is this the same Bill Guerin who took a two handed slash the head to his own teammate in 2002 (a prospect, in training camp, who didnt make the team)?

Same BillyG wasn't disciplined by the stars because he just signed a 5x$6.7M (about 15% of the cap back then) which the Stars bought out the 5th season.

No way some little punk twerp who's smaller than him (NERD!) is going to make more than he did (20+ years ago)!

Didn't know about that. People don't change. Animal.

 

[raithis]

Quote

1) Kaprizov needs to re-sign and stay healthy throughout this extension.

2) Jesper Wallstedt, Danila Yurov, and Zeev Buium must pan out.

Disagree with both of these.

While I agree that Kaprizov drives play and can't be hurt for significant portions of a season, expecting anyone to stay healthy for their entire contract is completely unrealistic.

And for the second, no, it is not a requirement that those specific players must pan out.  I'd agree that 3 of the 5 coming to the team this year will need to be moderately successful in their rookie seasons to help give the Wild that extra boost, but it does not specifically need to be those 3 players.  If Ohgren has a great year and Yurov doesn't, so what?  The team is still getting that next injection of youth it needs.

[raithis]

1 hour ago, Scalptrash said:

I know some people won't like that, because "we're so close. Just one or two more pieces". How many years will you fall for that crap? Watch Florida in the finals. Does anyone honestly believe the Wild are remotely close to that level?

Yes CS, I know this is confusing for you.

It must be confusing for you too.  Florida was a couple pieces away for YEARS until they weren't.

They slowly added those pieces and developed others to fill in those gaps or used them to trade for players that helped them get to where they are today.

Yes, the Wild isn't where Florida is now.  If they were, they'd have been in the Finals last year.  They aren't far off from where Florida was when they kept getting bounced from the playoffs though.  And if the Wild gets a couple pieces like Florida did (internally and/or externally), it might be a more fair comparison.

[Citizen Strife]

When have I ever said the Wild was a Cup Contender?  The most I've ever said repeatedly was, "Maybe win a round or two before plonking down crazy money for a quick fix."

The Wild will be a hell of a lot better equipped if Kap is on the team.  Boldy is great, but he's a step below Kap's sheer game-breaking presence.

I love how some people seem to think my realistic optimism is akin to sniffing paint or something.  Living in Minnesota doesn't mean blindly bitching about things.  I find the Charlie Brown struggle endearing and funny.

Edited 4 hours ago by Citizen Strife

[Scalptrash]

11 minutes ago, raithis said:

It must be confusing for you too.  Florida was a couple pieces away for YEARS until they weren't.

They slowly added those pieces and developed others to fill in those gaps or used them to trade for players that helped them get to where they are today.

Yes, the Wild isn't where Florida is now.  If they were, they'd have been in the Finals last year.  They aren't far off from where Florida was when they kept getting bounced from the playoffs though.  And if the Wild gets a couple pieces like Florida did (internally and/or externally), it might be a more fair comparison.

So you're comparing the moves the Wild have made to moves the Panthers made?! 🤣

[TCMooch]

I'll say it until he's finally fired for underperforming but I strongly believe based on media reports, his own words, and the actions coming out of the Wild organization (equipment buy who was highly respected leaving, him verbally abusing employees, etc) that Billy is an idiot meat head frat boy and has no business running this team. Every year is a year closer hopefully to him being shit canned.

[Dean]

Yeah we’re just a few moves away like Florida and Billy is the guy to do it. Haha. Florida can get anyone to come there at any price they offer. Just like minny. Haha. Man the beta males that believe this crap. Billy is exactly like his Cheeto Jesus. Taco tits himself. King pedo. Talks about law and order while letting pedos out of prison or sends them back to Israel. Billy Just lies about everything and can’t get anything done. Funny how Craig has quit asking the taxpayers about money now that his guy tanked the economy and trashed tourism. 51st state stuff was smart Billy. . I keep running into Billy at the grocery store. He’s always coming off lake to feed his face. Not spending time to make the team better but to work on his slob persona. This team is going nowhere with Billy at the helm . His bullying performance is old and stale just like his teams results on ice. He has no idea how to better this team only to lie and bully. His beta male fan boys will make excuses for him just like the chetto Jesus fan boys do for him. Pathetic 

[Patrick]

42 minutes ago, Dean said:

Yeah we’re just a few moves away like Florida and Billy is the guy to do it. Haha. Florida can get anyone to come there at any price they offer. Just like minny. Haha. Man the beta males that believe this crap. Billy is exactly like his Cheeto Jesus. Taco tits himself. King pedo. Talks about law and order while letting pedos out of prison or sends them back to Israel. Billy Just lies about everything and can’t get anything done. Funny how Craig has quit asking the taxpayers about money now that his guy tanked the economy and trashed tourism. 51st state stuff was smart Billy. . I keep running into Billy at the grocery store. He’s always coming off lake to feed his face. Not spending time to make the team better but to work on his slob persona. This team is going nowhere with Billy at the helm . His bullying performance is old and stale just like his teams results on ice. He has no idea how to better this team only to lie and bully. His beta male fan boys will make excuses for him just like the chetto Jesus fan boys do for him. Pathetic 

As the kids say..go touch grass!

[Will D. Ness]

I don't get the hate.  His biggest weakness is over valuing older vets, but that is hardly a reason to be so negative about the guy.  

[mnfaninnc]

Wow, the comments today are a lot to unpack! As for the article, the exact opposite of what just happened in the Rossi negotiations is coming. In this one, Guerin has very little leverage, and his job kind of depends on resigning his star. They'll likely give Kaprizov what he wants financially....but, for this team to get that extra piece, Kaprizov and his agent will need a little restraint to have some leftover cap money available to do it. 

What can't Shootah give Kaprizov in this contract? A Stanley Cup. Those are earned on the ice. But, Kaprizov can help the team build itself into a contender by leaving a little on the table. It's no guarantee, but it is more likely. 

Now, on to the comments:

4 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

“This might sound harsh,” he said, “but if you’re betting on yourself with 15 million dollars in your pocket, that’s a pretty good safety net.

This is exactly true and it's not spiking the ball in Rossi's endzone. I don't know about P-Money, but I'd like to have a 3 year contract where I get $15m. I stand by my original thought, Rossi has a chance to prove himself and he will get resigned for large dollars if he remains healthy and consistent in putting up numbers.

3 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

If they are ever going to even sniff a Stanley Cup, I think they need to clean house from top to bottom. My biggest hope is that Leipold sells the team, or at least hires someone else to run it. He has proven that he has no clue how to hire the right people. GM and entire coaching staff need to go. Several of the long time vets need to go. This team needs a ground up rebuild with proven and competent leadership at the helm. I know some people won't like that, because "we're so close. Just one or two more pieces". How many years will you fall for that crap? Watch Florida in the finals. Does anyone honestly believe the Wild are remotely close to that level?

The suggestion here is that we sell everything for 5 more years of misery. This is ludicrous! Wouldn't you first want to find out if this is going to work out? Florida did not get to this stage because they tanked, Florida got to this stage because they were horrible without tanking got a couple of players, but then rescued many off the scrap heap or made some very good trades. The same guy who built the foundation of the Blackhawks built the foundation of the Panthers. Both times, he was relieved of his duties before getting to see the fruit. Why wouldn't you want to see if this is going to work? Tanking for picks for 5 years is brutal with no guarantees.

2 hours ago, raithis said:

And for the second, no, it is not a requirement that those specific players must pan out.  I'd agree that 3 of the 5 coming to the team this year will need to be moderately successful in their rookie seasons to help give the Wild that extra boost, but it does not specifically need to be those 3 players.  If Ohgren has a great year and Yurov doesn't, so what?  The team is still getting that next injection of youth it needs.

I think you're on to something here, but I'm not sure about the definition of a great year. What I do think is that all 5 of these guys, maybe 6 need to play meaningful roles on this team going forward. They can be bottom 6 or 3rd pairing (not all) but if they play meaningful roles, a dynasty can be built out of it. The more in that age group we can link together, the stronger chance it becomes. However, the most important guy who has to pan out is The Wall, as that is the most important position to get us out of playoff rounds.

2 hours ago, raithis said:

Yes, the Wild isn't where Florida is now.  If they were, they'd have been in the Finals last year.  They aren't far off from where Florida was when they kept getting bounced from the playoffs though.  And if the Wild gets a couple pieces like Florida did (internally and/or externally), it might be a more fair comparison.

This is exactly true.

2 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

When have I ever said the Wild was a Cup Contender?

You haven't, we're trying to get from competitive to contender. Many use these words interchangeably, but they aren't and it's important to understand the distinction. Competitive is what we've been promised for the past 5 seasons, now building the contender is the goal and with the influx of our youth, that is the first step. Remember, results always lag.

 

1 hour ago, Dean said:

Man the beta males that believe this crap. Billy is exactly like his Cheeto Jesus. Taco tits himself. King pedo. Talks about law and order while letting pedos out of prison or sends them back to Israel. Billy Just lies about everything and can’t get anything done.

I've been one to talk about news and walk the line of politics, but I've got to throw a flag on this one. Deano, it's one thing to describe your feelings and be negative, but you can't just come in an trash the political scene in that way. Plus, you're better than that. 🚩 Consider yourself flagged 😉

41 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

I don't get the hate.

I don't get it either. Everything takes time. Developing the draft picks has been long. Making a competitive roster when down $15m has been long. But through the process, I believe this team has been trudging forward. Why not see what we've been waiting the last 5 years for? There's no need to have to have top 5 picks to make this happen. Especially when the draft for 2-3 of those years was a crap shoot. We know for sure we won't be 82-0, and certainly not 0-82. I'm very optimistic we will continue moving forward and that Guerin will do what needs to be done, especially with the placeholders.

As for the 6-2 220 comment, I like having those guys on my team, but there is also a place for a 5'9" 200 lb. guy. You can't have too many each or you will be out of balance. Sure, Guerin won with his frame, but he also had 22 teammates that helped him win that came in all shapes and sizes. The way he has gone about building is from the back 1st. And that has been his plan: Goalie brought in, strong defensive group and lastly the forwards.

[Burnt Toast]

4 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

My biggest hope

The cake is still in the oven IMO. So until it comes out and decorated, say 2027, no one really knows what it’s going to look like or how it’ll taste. That includes BG, OCL, CJH or anyone else. I see a team trending in the right direction so I’m optimistic for a chance for the SC. If things don’t work out over the next three seasons I am joining you on the Rebuild Resale Reboot train. We will know soon enough.