Article: Will Marco Rossi Sit Out of Wild Training Camp?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

39 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

However, Rossi is almost exactly at the same point as Boldy when he was given a $7Mx7 contract, and that was two years ago (so not today's dollars).

Boldy's first two seasons: 39pts. & 63 pts.

Rossi's first two seasons: 40pts. & 60pts.

Comparable signings this off season more than justify $6.5-7M/season (facts). For whatever reason, Billy just doesn't respect him (probably size, because he's not a clone of himself).

Boldy was 21 years old and was not regularly playing with Kaprizov, he was driving the scoring of a line saddled with Marcus Johansson, and he's more skilled.

Rossi is a good player, but comparing the age 20 and 21 seasons of a top player to the 22 and 23 seasons of another doesn't put these guys on equal terms.

When Rossi was as old as Boldy was then, he had 1 point in 21 NHL games compared to 102 points in 128 games!!!  If any GM would give those players comparable contracts, he's not going to last long as an NHL GM.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

47 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

Boldy's first two seasons: 39pts. & 63 pts.

Rossi's first two seasons: 40pts. & 60pts.

Last 2 seasons for Boldy = 74 points per 82 games.

Last 2 seasons for Rossi = 50 points per 82 games.

These guys are about the same age. Again, these are not comparable signings.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

8 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

The leverage for Rossi is that this team isn't good enough to make the playoffs without him being a top-six center. It's very unlikely that Yurov is going to be ready out the gate to handle that role. Guys like Kuznetsov, Marchenko, and Buchnevich took time to reach their final form in North America. 

JEEK/Hartman/Sturm and ??? aren't going to get it done.

I disagree. I think a healthy Wild team could make the playoffs without Rossi, but there's a difference between simply making the playoffs and being a home-ice team that has a better chance at advancing, which is what the Wild might be able to achieve if they have a fairly healthy roster throughout the year that includes Rossi.

Rossi's leverage is not playing, but that does a disservice to his own financial outlook and to his team. It's not ideal leverage.

Even if Yurov weren't ready to be a top 6 C, the Wild can play him 4th line or have another 4th line C play there. Hartman can clearly play top 6 C minutes. Rossi is quite good, but the Wild could have a winning record without his services. I don't think they'll need to worry about it though. His negotiators will likely get a deal done before training camp.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Scalptrash said:

He has been given more rope than any GM in Wild history and Leipold won't limit his income indefinitely.

Gotta agree again with S-Trash here.  At some point Leo will require results beyond one-and-done from bill.  I'm not an insider but it seems bill has done well with upgrading the marketing dept. (like it or not) and other administrative parts of the job (lawsuits withstanding) but 7 years is enough time to begin demanding one-ice results that go beyond regular season records.

[Scalptrash]

20 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Boldy was 21 years old and was not regularly playing with Kaprizov, he was driving the scoring of a line saddled with Marcus Johansson, and he's more skilled.

Rossi is a good player, but comparing the age 20 and 21 seasons of a top player to the 22 and 23 seasons of another doesn't put these guys on equal terms.

When Rossi was as old as Boldy was then, he had 1 point in 21 NHL games compared to 102 points in 128 games!!!  If any GM would give those players comparable contracts, he's not going to last long as an NHL GM.

I'm not arguing that they are of the same skill level, only their performance in each of their first two seasons in the NHL. If Rossi did not have myocarditis when he was 21, and didn't miss more than a year of playing hockey (at all), then who knows. Since he recovered, he's done nothing but exceed expectations. It can be argued that nobody on the team has worked harder over the last three years.

You're also ignoring what similar players have recently signed for. And, Boldy signed that contract two years ago. In today's money and cap space, the equivalent would easily be $8M or more. So paying Rossi $7M today is not the same as paying Boldy $7M two years ago. As I've said in the past, I'm sure Billy doesn't want to upset Boldy any more than he probably already is. If he gave Rossi the same money, knowing he's not the same player, there would be hurt feelings.

[goenzoy]

42 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

highest paid hockey player in the Swiss league is $2.418 million in 2025, which is roughly $2M less than Rossi could play for with the Wild on a 1 year deal, and less than 20% of the top NHL contract.

Well this calculation are all based on before tax 

Tax arrangement can be done totally different in Switzerland so it is not a like for like 

But again I m not suggesting that going to Switzerland is realistic or an optimal option it is just the worst case exit route good to shelter for a year or even months only should anything else fail 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

16 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

I'm not arguing that they are of the same skill level, only their performance in each of their first two seasons in the NHL. If Rossi did not have myocarditis when he was 21, and didn't miss more than a year of playing hockey (at all), then who knows. Since he recovered, he's done nothing but exceed expectations. It can be argued that nobody on the team has worked harder over the last three years.

Rossi's health concerns were at age 19.  While nobody will deny it impacted his development, it was 2 years later that he delivered 1 NHL point in 19 games.  That's the same age that Boldy delivered 63 points in 81 games.

I just don't see the value in comparing these players, especially when it's using 47 games for Boldy's first season compared to 82 games for Rossi. Total point production over 164 games compared to total points in 128 games just will not be a good argument to make. That's nearly half a season of difference.

If people want to discuss points/minute, they could have some basis for an argument, but nobody is presenting that.

I mean, if you just want to argue total points, Rossi had more points than Kaprizov last season, so if you're gonna pay Kaprizov around $14M, then Rossi deserves $15M, right?  That argument seems a little silly now, doesn't it?

Edited August 14 by Imyourhuckleberry
Added KK97 note.

[SkolWild73]

32 minutes ago, goenzoy said:

or even months only should anything else fail 

The problem with that is if he isn't signed by December 1st to an NHL contract, he is unable to play this year.

[0 Stanley Cups]

29 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

You're also ignoring what similar players have recently signed for. And, Boldy signed that contract two years ago. In today's money and cap space, the equivalent would easily be $8M or more. So paying Rossi $7M today is not the same as paying Boldy $7M two years ago.

Totally agree.  Boldy and Ek are on terrific contracts, I've seen a few articles for the best contracts in the NHL and Boldy's always on the list.  Look at when Ek signed his latest contract, it was before his play really took off.  Marco proved himself last season, detractors say not at the end of the season, big deal, Boldy's play can be streaky as hell, it happens to scorers.

[Scalptrash]

24 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Rossi's health concerns were at age 19.  While nobody will deny it impacted his development, it was 2 years later that he delivered 1 NHL point in 19 games.  That's the same age that Boldy delivered 63 points in 81 games.

I just don't see the value in comparing these players, especially when it's using 47 games for Boldy's first season compared to 82 games for Rossi. Total point production over 164 games compared to total points in 128 games just will not be a good argument to make. That's nearly half a season of difference.

If people want to discuss points/minute, they could have some basis for an argument, but nobody is presenting that.

I mean, if you just want to argue total points, Rossi had more points than Kaprizov last season, so if you're gonna pay Kaprizov around $14M, then Rossi deserves $15M, right?  That argument seems a little silly now, doesn't it?

Are you Billy? Trying to ignore his accomplishments and devalue him? If Rossi doesn't score 60 last season, they probably don't make the playoffs. And that was w/o Kaprizov and Ek for half the season. If you want to compare PPG, fine, go ahead. I never said, for the second time now, that they were of equal skill. Obviously Boldy is a better player.

I don't care if you like him or not. He's only 23 years old, not easy to replace, and will probably get better. Boldy's contract, in hindsight, was a great value for the Wild. This could be the same. It's what he's worth today, like it or not.

Vancouver

[goenzoy]

30 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

The problem with that is if he isn't signed by December 1st to an NHL contract, he is unable to play this year.

Yes I know but I dont think it will take that long 

AFP ranks him with 4.5 mil and I guessing at some point anything above will be signed .Just a question for how long as relationship with coach is broken 

But still a month to go until training camp so a lot can happen 

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

Boldy's first two seasons: 39pts. & 63 pts.

Rossi's first two seasons: 40pts. & 60pts.

Didn't Boldy have to carry Rask on his back while putting up those stats? (i could be wrong on my history).  And a puck hogging Fiala...while Rossi had the luxury of spending lots of TOI with 97, 36, 12, etc.

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

The time to insert 5-6 rookies into the lineup and hope for the best was over the last four years. There was never a better time and now that time was wasted.

⛔Truth Bomb⛔

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

They've gotten no better and no worse since then

the very definition of going sideways

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Boldy was 21 years old and was not regularly playing with Kaprizov, he was driving the scoring of a line saddled with Marcus Johansson

Good god, Nojo (and Rask) is where offense goes to die

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Scalptrash said:

If Rossi did not have myocarditis

cue MNFan

[Pewterschmidt]

43 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

Rossi doesn't score 60 last season, they probably don't make the playoffs. And that was w/o Kaprizov and Ek for half the season.

Rossi went full ghost mode when 97 & Ek were out.  He logged bulk of his pts in 1st half of season if i remember correctly.  Wasn't Rossi white hot to start the season?

[Tony Abbott]

9 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Didn't Boldy have to carry Rask on his back while putting up those stats? (i could be wrong on my history).  And a puck hogging Fiala...while Rossi had the luxury of spending lots of TOI with 97, 36, 12, etc.

Dude, Kevin Fiala had the third-most assists in franchise history that year.

[Pewterschmidt]

3 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

Dude, Kevin Fiala had the third-most assists in franchise history that year.

Yes my argument unravelled as i was typing it.  Could still be resurrected if bulk of Fiala assists were on PP w/o Boldy.  Was that the year the PP was NEXT LEVEL?

Stat gopher, attack!!

Edited August 14 by Pewterschmidt

[Tony Abbott]

Looked pretty unselfish to me! 

[SkolWild73]

17 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Yes my argument unravelled as i was typing it.  Could still be resurrected if bulk of Fiala assists were on PP w/o Boldy.  Was that the year the PP was NEXT LEVEL?

Stat gopher, attack!!

21/22 was Fiala's last year with us and that was Boldy's rookie year where he finished with 39 points.  Fiala had 52 assists that year and 12 were on then PP.  Powerplay was ranked 18th that year.

[mnfaninnc]

3 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

Billy had years to prepare for this season. He made the decisions that penalized the team, that solely rests on his shoulders. Who knows if that was the right decision? They've gotten no better and no worse since then, but he's kept butts in seats. Yawn.

I can't disagree with the point that we should have played the kids years ago to get them acclimated from a competition view. The only thing I can point to is Guerin promising that we would be competitive through the buyouts. I do believe that this was a direction from his boss, he greatly prides himself on having a team with an invitation to the playoffs. 

If I were GM, I would have wanted those guys playing up sooner. The only wildcard here would have been Yurov, but he was ready to come over last season, they just couldn't work out the bonus structure. I have to believe that playing OgZ, Yurov and The Wall last season would have paid a lot of dividends. 

I was unhappy with the signings of Zuccarello, Foligno and Hartman. Out of that list, I thought 1 should have been signed and the other 2 let go. Foligno was my choice to stay only because he was the hardest to replicate. Those spots should have been filled by ELC players. Last season, signing MAF was a waste of a season of development for The Wall. He should have been in there. And, with Zuccy and Hartman, I wouldn't have had any handshake deals for something better if they panned out. 

Fletcher put in the kids too early. Let's see if overcooking them helps with their development better so they can hit the ground running. I would have expected the '21 and '22 drafted players to pretty much come in together. We saw how OgZ played last season, maybe they just simply weren't ready yet? 

But if the suggestion was to tank 5 years ago and just swallow hard and accept 5 rough seasons, I disagree that that was ever the way to go. I think staying competitive was the right move, I just think some guys have been held onto too long.

[mnfaninnc]

3 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

The leverage for Rossi is that this team isn't good enough to make the playoffs without him being a top-six center. It's very unlikely that Yurov is going to be ready out the gate to handle that role. Guys like Kuznetsov, Marchenko, and Buchnevich took time to reach their final form in North America. 

JEEK/Hartman/Sturm and ??? aren't going to get it done.

I assume what you're getting at here is if he does hold out, they will miss him. Would his teammates have some hard feelings about him holding out and maybe the welcome back isn't as warm as he would have hoped? 

Are we looking at Yurov in front of Sturm on that list?

I would worry about the locker room if I were Rossi. This is a tight knit group. Holding out is kind of a me thing. This group doesn't really operate that way, it's more collective. So, for Rossi, I don't think that's much leverage, especially if you were offered a decent amount coming off an ELC. 

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

It's what he's worth today, like it or not.

I think this is where we differ. If you're only looking at points produced, you probably win the argument. If you're looking at a player's entire game, he's not worth that today.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

cue MNFan

If he didn't, I think we've got a star on our hands. We'd have the 3rd year on the ELC, and we'd have been dealing with this contract last season. The kid's been through a lot, and 2 really down years was very unfortunate for the club and Rossi.

Unfortunately, with the myocarditis, even though it was not Rossi's fault, it was upon Rossi to rebuild himself. He has done a fantastic job of hard work in doing this. However, with the lost time, he's the one who will have to pay the price. 

I cautioned don't dump him when many people had written him off when he went back down to the A. Give him 1 more year to prove himself and he built himself up. Had he never had the myocarditis, he probably wouldn't have gotten bridged. Now, he will lose a significant portion more of his peak earning years because of that. 

When he went down, he was set to come into the league ready for us. He had 2 contract slide years on his ELC because of this, so, in reality, it's really 2 years ago that we would have dealt with this next deal. While this is not really fair to him, it is reality. The Wild do not owe him a pity contract. Life doesn't work that way. 

On the other side of this, what could have happened if the Wild trainers didn't catch this? 

He's got some things the Wild want him to do better. These are things they need him to show before getting paid. Working with Joe Thornton was a great way to publicly show you're working on 1 of those things. Coming into camp more solid with elite edges is another way. 

I could see a scenario where boxes are checked and Rossi looks bigger, stronger, and plays harder where a longterm extension could be added quickly. It very well could be a 1 year bridge and a longterm extension signed midway through the season.