Article: Wild, Rossi Still Far Apart in Contract Talks

[Thomas Williams]

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[mnfaninnc]

The Rossi contract saga lasts probably up to around training camp beginning. I think they are so far apart right now, that Guerin will just wait it out and come back to them when no offersheets are offered. 

I think it's a legitimate question as to which Rossi will do we have, that last 1/4 of last season showed an ineffective Rossi who may have been worn down by the season. I vaguely remember that being the case the previous year too. Of course players can go hot and cold, especially point getters, but Guerin really needs to know which guy he's got. Personally, I think it's the Rossi of the 1st 3/4 of the season, and Rossi does have an ice time limit to his effectiveness. 

Question for Mr. Cheatachu: Is there a time limit for offersheeting a player?

[mnfaninnc]

I also forgot to mention on Rossi, I'm really hoping that the Wild will be able to trade him for Mason McTavish. McTavish is exactly the type of center that Guerin has said he wants to help Ek out and to trade Rossi for. A guy who can put up points and is bigger. 

We also just saw Byram signed for 2 years well below his suggested market value. He was an RFA. He got $6.25m aav. I would suggest that this will have an effect on the Rossi contract, being well below market value. 

I realize they don't play anywhere close to the same positions, but it's the concept of getting back to bridge deals instead of paying your young players directly out of an ELC. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

12 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

We also just saw Byram signed for 2 years well below his suggested market value. He was an RFA. He got $6.25m aav. I would suggest that this will have an effect on the Rossi contract, being well below market value

Offensive defenceman that got caved in on defence and put up 38pts got 6.25M. Not sure if that is going to bring down Rossi's ask.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

This is Rossi's card from his 40pt season, I don't have the updated 24-25 one.

Proj. WAR %

Pos:

C

57%

Age:

23

TOI:

3rd Liner

Cap:

$0.9M x 1

EV Offence

EV Defence

PP

PK

Finishing

35%

75%

4%

NA

50%

Goals

1st Assists

Penalties

Competition

Teammates

69%

37%

91%

59%

86%

3-Year Weighted Avg Data, percentile ranking among forwards

WAR and Player Data from Patrick Bacon (@TopDownHockey)

Cap Data from CapFriendly

20-21

[SkolWild73]

43 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Is there a time limit for offersheeting a player?

Pretty sure it is up until December 1st.  

[goenzoy]

56 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Offensive defenceman that got caved in on defence and put up 38pts got 6.25M. Not sure if that is going to bring down Rossi's ask.

Doubt very much that it has any relation for Rossi 

For multiple reasons.The most important one .Byram will be UFA when this 2 years are over 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

56 minutes ago, goenzoy said:

Doubt very much that it has any relation for Rossi 

For multiple reasons.The most important one .Byram will be UFA when this 2 years are over 

I could possibly see a deal for Rossi having a similar AAV and lasting until he hits UFA status. I agree that the player here is unlikely to be used for comparison, but the AAV and years to reach UFA status is possibly similar.

[goenzoy]

13 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

could possibly see a deal for Rossi having a similar AAV and lasting until he hits UFA status. I agree that the player here is unlikely to be used for comparison, but the AAV and years to reach UFA status is possibly similar.

Dont think so as it makes zero sense for Rossi to sign a 3 year deal

In case of AAV it might be the basis for a compromise but max. for 2 years in best case only for a single season

[SkolWild73]

7 minutes ago, goenzoy said:

Dont think so as it makes zero sense for Rossi to sign a 3 year deal

In case of AAV it might be the basis for a compromise but max. for 2 years in best case only for a single season

One-year deals are very rare for RFA's.  Since 2019, there have been 3 signed on contracts over $3M, one was an offer sheet and the other two got the players to RFA status.  

[SkolWild73]

39 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I could possibly see a deal for Rossi having a similar AAV and lasting until he hits UFA status. I agree that the player here is unlikely to be used for comparison, but the AAV and years to reach UFA status is possibly similar.

I am in agreement with you on this.  I posted in another thread a similar contract if they were to do a bridge deal would be Ecklund's contract he just signed, which was 3 years, $5.6M AAV.  They have very similar paths and stats.  Rossi was drafted 9th in 2020 and Ecklund 7th in 2021.  Both played almost exclusively in the A three years ago, and in the last two seasons, Ecklund had 45 and 58 points, while Rossi had 40 and 60.  Ecklund is 5'11" and 181 pounds and doesn't play any more physical than Rossi.  Do a similar deal or add a year or subtract a year and adjust the AAV accordingly should be a fair deal.

If we were to do a longer term deal, which it does not seem we are willing to do, but if we would, if Stankoven at 5'8" and 165 pounds can get 8 years and $6M AAV with one full season and 37 points and Matty Coronato at 5'10" and 183 pounds can get 7 years and $6.5 AAV after 37 games and 9 points two years ago and 47 points this year, I would think Rossi could get at least that.  Even Cole Caulfield at 5'8" and 175 pounds got 8 years at $7.85M AAV two years ago, after scoring 79 points in 113 games.  

[Scalptrash]

Quote

Justin Kipkie has now been drafted by two different NHL teams at just 19 years old, but the Wild's 2025 fifth-round pick seems to be a good bet to turn around quickly. The blueliner is heading to Arizona State this fall.

I don't think that means a whole lot. What's more interesting is the Arizona State choice. Not exactly a hotbed for hockey, especially for a Canadian hockey player. Is that the best school he could get? Did he at least get a scholarship?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

56 minutes ago, goenzoy said:

Dont think so as it makes zero sense for Rossi to sign a 3 year deal

In case of AAV it might be the basis for a compromise but max. for 2 years in best case only for a single season

It would be a 4-year deal to get to Rossi's UFA status, which would be at $25M to have the same AAV.  That is between the $7+ Million per year Rossi's agent wants, and where the Wild have been at.

I don't know if that would get it done, but seems like a somewhat reasonable spot in the middle that could be close to where things end up for these negotiations.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

14 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

What's more interesting is the Arizona State choice. Not exactly a hotbed for hockey, especially for a Canadian hockey player. Is that the best school he could get? Did he at least get a scholarship?

Arizona State was shockingly competitive last year, knocking off Denver  multiple times--they were responsible for 3 of the 9 losses Denver suffered prior to entering the playoffs, including the first 2 losses that Denver had on the year. Strange new world in college hockey.

ASU finished the season just outside of the NCAA tournament and ranked as the #16 team in the country at season's end. I don't know how they've been recruiting, but I remembered them beating Buium's team multiple times.

[Kato AK]

1 hour ago, Scalptrash said:

I don't think that means a whole lot. What's more interesting is the Arizona State choice. Not exactly a hotbed for hockey, especially for a Canadian hockey player. Is that the best school he could get? Did he at least get a scholarship?

In their first season in the NCHC, ASU finished in second behind Western Michigan. They absolutely should have made the NCAA tourney but the East coast bias kept them out. May not be a hockey blue blood, but definitely making waves.

As far as the school itself, brand new facilities, great weather during the season, party school, and (if he is getting money) no income tax.

[goenzoy]

2 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

One-year deals are very rare for RFA's.  Since 2019, there have been 3 signed on contracts over $3M, one was an offer sheet and the other two got the players to RFA status.  

I know and I agree . One year deal are also very risky for the player.

But personally I think the bond is cut between GM and Rossi as player.

You need to move on to a place were you are wanted

[goenzoy]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

It would be a 4-year deal to get to Rossi's UFA status, which would be at $25M to have the same AAV.  That is between the $7+ Million per year Rossi's agent wants, and where the Wild have been at.

Yes but that is just money math 

Playing 4 years on a place what doesn't want you is very hard 

And money alone doesn't compensate such a situation

[SkolWild73]

13 minutes ago, goenzoy said:

I know and I agree . One year deal are also very risky for the player.

But personally I think the bond is cut between GM and Rossi as player.

You need to move on to a place were you are wanted

Maybe, but even a one, two or three-year deal, we would still control his rights and have to do it all over again.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

41 minutes ago, goenzoy said:

Playing 4 years on a place what doesn't want you is very hard 

And money alone doesn't compensate such a situation

GM has stated that he likes Rossi. Russo indicated that Rossi doesn't want to be traded. I think it mostly does come down to money, and if Guerin delivers an offer that Rossi's camp can live with, Rossi just wants to play hockey for a winning team.

He can do that in Minnesota, but he may end up getting traded, and that's a risk he will need to live with since they cannot add a NMC until he is UFA eligible. Guerin isn't trading him without upgrading the team, so it's not like there's something that is imminent and nobody is going to offer sheet him away.

Eventually, the parties will come together on a deal and get it done.

[goenzoy]

10 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Guerin isn't trading him without upgrading the team, so it's not like there's something that is imminent and nobody is going to offer sheet him away.

Eventually, the parties will come together on a deal and get it done.

But that's plain wrong and we do not know what other teams thinking about Rossi .Not at coaches level and even more so on GM level 

And doing it all over again is doable .Rossi s job is  getting to 60 points again .All contract details are pretty much irrelevant 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

59 minutes ago, goenzoy said:

But that's plain wrong

What specifically is wrong?

[mnfaninnc]

4 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

I am in agreement with you on this.  I posted in another thread a similar contract if they were to do a bridge deal would be Ecklund's contract he just signed, which was 3 years, $5.6M AAV.  They have very similar paths and stats.  Rossi was drafted 9th in 2020 and Ecklund 7th in 2021.  Both played almost exclusively in the A three years ago, and in the last two seasons, Ecklund had 45 and 58 points, while Rossi had 40 and 60.  Ecklund is 5'11" and 181 pounds and doesn't play any more physical than Rossi.  Do a similar deal or add a year or subtract a year and adjust the AAV accordingly should be a fair deal.

If we were to do a longer term deal, which it does not seem we are willing to do, but if we would, if Stankoven at 5'8" and 165 pounds can get 8 years and $6M AAV with one full season and 37 points and Matty Coronato at 5'10" and 183 pounds can get 7 years and $6.5 AAV after 37 games and 9 points two years ago and 47 points this year, I would think Rossi could get at least that.  Even Cole Caulfield at 5'8" and 175 pounds got 8 years at $7.85M AAV two years ago, after scoring 79 points in 113 games.

Skol, were any of these guys arbitration eligible at the time of signing?

Also, I've been told Stankoven is quite a bit north of 165, and plays very aggressive.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

GM has stated that he likes Rossi. Russo indicated that Rossi doesn't want to be traded. I think it mostly does come down to money, and if Guerin delivers an offer that Rossi's camp can live with, Rossi just wants to play hockey for a winning team.

He can do that in Minnesota, but he may end up getting traded, and that's a risk he will need to live with since they cannot add a NMC until he is UFA eligible. Guerin isn't trading him without upgrading the team, so it's not like there's something that is imminent and nobody is going to offer sheet him away.

Eventually, the parties will come together on a deal and get it done.

Could the agent actually be the road block here to a deal getting done? If he's in Rossi's ear saying we can get more, is Rossi just letting him handle things until they're close?

[SkolWild73]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Skol, were any of these guys arbitration eligible at the time of signing?

Also, I've been told Stankoven is quite a bit north of 165, and plays very aggressive.

 None of them were arbitration eligible.  I took Stankoven’s weight off of hockey reference.  As far if he is aggressive or not, he had 48 hits last year, Rossi had 62.  Not sure how telling that is, but I would not call him physical.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, goenzoy said:

But that's plain wrong and we do not know what other teams thinking about Rossi .Not at coaches level and even more so on GM level 

And doing it all over again is doable .Rossi s job is  getting to 60 points again .All contract details are pretty much irrelevant 

We do know that Tourgny loves him (Utah). Utah doesn't really have the money to offersheet him, but they certainly could propose a trade. Instead of Rossi, they went after JJ Peterka.