Article: The Mikael Granlund Contract Should Have Ended the Marco Rossi Debate

[ArizonaWildFan]

19 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I don't know that Rossi would have been higher.

Rossi played all 82 games last season and had 24 goals and 36 assists for a total of 60 points and .73 points per game.

Rossi played 21 games between 2/25 and 4/6 when both Kaprizov and Ek were out with injuries (there were other games during the season where one or both were out of the lineup with injuries) scored 4 goals, had 5 assists, 9 total points and .43 points per game.

The other 61 games that Rossi played he had 20 goals, 31 assists, 51 total points and .84 points per game.

Please don't try to get yourself or anyone else to believe that Rossi would not have had higher point totals last season if Kaprizov and Ek would not have missed those 21 games. Stats and facts don't lie. Rossi was a .84 PPG player with one or both Kaprizov and Ek in the lineup and a .43 PPG player without both of them.

Some dumbass or dumbasses are going to make a dumbass reply to this post. Waiting to see who gets crowned the King of Dumbasses.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

19 hours ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Guerin is quick to say that Ek needs depth help. Guerin was tight-lipped when Rossi stepped in to Ek's role while he was injured, without having Kaprizov's help as well.

After JEE was out for an extended time period(following February 6th), Rossi tallied 14 points(6G, 8A) in 27 games while often playing with Boldy.  He was playing 1C, but he wasn't producing like a 1C or 2C.

Also, we are comparing 2 different players in 2 different roles and 2 different eras.  In the year Granlund hit 69 points as a winger, only 1 player in the entire NHL hit 100 points and that was McDavid at exactly 100. Nobody else reached 90 points that season, and Granlund led his entire team in scoring, so paying him like a top line wing made more sense. Granlund tied for 20th in total points with Ovechkin for that season.

2024-2025, there were 6 players that hit 100+ points, and another 6 who reached 90+ points. Rossi ended the season tied for 81st in points, and his scoring saw a major drop off when the Wild were missing their #1 scorer.

Suggesting that Rossi deserves the same contract because he reached 60 points in this season where league average was 247 goals simply doesn't take into consideration that Granlund had 9 more points in a season where average goals per team were 223.  Scoring today is 10% higher than it was when Granlund outscored Rossi by more than 10% and led the team in scoring. Rossi finished 2nd on the Wild in scoring ONLY because other players were injured.

Remember that 27 game stretch to end the season(February 8th to the end), guess who else tallied 14 points(8G, 6A) in that stretch while NOT regularly playing with Boldy, Frederick Gaudreau!

Also, Boldy had 28 points in that 27 game stretch while Zuccarello and Johansson both tallied 18 points. I like Rossi just fine, but Guerin is doing this correctly. He's not disrespecting Rossi. He's evaluating Rossi as a guy who doesn't currently drive scoring like a top line forward, which is different than what Granlund did back in 2016-2017.

[Will D. Ness]

Just now, ArizonaWildFan said:

Some dumbass or dumbasses are going to make a dumbass reply to this post. Waiting to see who gets crowned the King of Dumbasses.

I so want this crown.  

Rossi's value shouldn't be determined by the value of other players.  I think you have it backwards.  Rossi's drop off when others got hurt actually lowered his value.  It shows he is a beneficiary and not a driver of play.

I think the injuries to KK and Ek actually exposed Rossi as not quite ready for prime time and as it turns out... the league agrees so far.

Potential is still there IMO, but nobody wants to commit to 7x7.

[Quebec1648]

On 7/8/2025 at 10:54 AM, OldDutchChip said:

we shouldn't rush to sign him to 7 or higher LT deal until he proves that he belongs in the top 6. we have leverage on him, and we are using it.

it is also in Rossi's best interest (financially speaking) to bet on himself (if he believes in himself). sign a short term deal - come in and deliver - and it will pay off. 

i think billy is handling this surprisingly well (i was wrong about him), not just Rossi but the team construct part.

i do believe he understands that top 6 needs more physically imposing and skilled players. those are hard to get but he is banking on one being available this TDL. perhaps Tage or Tuch or Brady or Larkin or Pasta or Panarin (not tough but super skill). you have to have flexibility to get them and you'd loose that if you pay up for Rossi now. 

there is also Rossi's replacement - Yurov. i get it that he is an unknown, but it does seem like top 6 is a spot for him sooner or later. So having two undersized players (centers too) added to an already "soft" list of players in the top 6 is just not a good strategy.

so it's simple - Rossi is a good player - but he doesn't fit our Top 6. 

What criteria do you have for deciding if a player is undersized? Yurov is 6'1, which makes him bigger than Rossi by several inches and close to Boldy at 6"2. 

Guerin has been smart to avoid giving Rossi a long term deal at a high price tag, but he has also tanked Rossi`s trade value. Guerin shopped Rossi and got no offers that were any good. 

Given that Yurov is coming soon, where should Rossi play? Will he be playing 3rd or 4th line minutes? I don't see both players being in the top 6 at the same time. If Rossi gets demoted to bottom 6, that doesn't exactly help his trade value.

Rossi can bet on himself by taking a bridge deal, but that assumes he would be playing on the 1st or 2nd line to increase his value. With Guetin constantly bashing him in the media, I don't see Rossi wanting to stay here long term, unless it's a big money extension. 

[OldDutchChip]

10 minutes ago, Quebec1648 said:

What criteria do you have for deciding if a player is undersized? Yurov is 6'1, which makes him bigger than Rossi by several inches and close to Boldy at 6"2. 

Guerin has been smart to avoid giving Rossi a long term deal at a high price tag, but he has also tanked Rossi`s trade value. Guerin shopped Rossi and got no offers that were any good. 

Given that Yurov is coming soon, where should Rossi play? Will he be playing 3rd or 4th line minutes? I don't see both players being in the top 6 at the same time. If Rossi gets demoted to bottom 6, that doesn't exactly help his trade value.

Rossi can bet on himself by taking a bridge deal, but that assumes he would be playing on the 1st or 2nd line to increase his value. With Guetin constantly bashing him in the media, I don't see Rossi wanting to stay here long term, unless it's a big money extension. 

to me, size is weight and strength. height is not as important. boldy at 6'2 is not as physically imposing as matthew tkachuk at same height. so it's the body make up and how you use it. 

Guerin has been smart to avoid giving Rossi a long term deal at a high price tag, but he has also tanked Rossi`s trade value. Guerin shopped Rossi and got no offers that were any good. i guess to me it was more of a "what's best for the team" approach. the team was going into PO and had to have buy in from all.  i mentioned plenty of times that Rossi struggled and rightfully was demoted. if it tanked his value - then that's that - but i think that was the right move for the team. 

another point against the tanking is that a smart GM still sees thru the noise and can identify talent, so if Rossi was unfairly demoted, and value is at an all-time low, that's when you pounce and try to "steal" him for low offer. but that hasn't materialized yet. 

so depends on how you look at it. 

Given that Yurov is coming soon, where should Rossi play? Will he be playing 3rd or 4th line minutes? I don't see both players being in the top 6 at the same time. If Rossi gets demoted to bottom 6, that doesn't exactly help his trade value. i think if Rossi stays, we should use him in 2/3 line, perhaps Boldy, Rossi and Vlady will be a good trio. I'd start Ek, Kap and Zuccy. and See what you have with Yurov. He really is a wild card - who really knows? what do you think?

Rossi can bet on himself by taking a bridge deal, but that assumes he would be playing on the 1st or 2nd line to increase his value. With Guetin constantly bashing him in the media, I don't see Rossi wanting to stay here long term, unless it's a big money extension. i think he will be assuming he comes ready to go and shakes off the last part of the season. i also don't see Rossi in our LT plans. Not because i do not like him as a player, but it's because of how our team is currently constructed. we need to balance skill and finesse with strength and power, otherwise we will again be an easy out in the PO. Having Rossi, Yurov, Boldy, Zuccy, Vlad, Kap, Ek all be skill and finesse is not a good recipe. Yes, even Ek is really just a punching bag..... 🙂 

[Scalptrash]

On 7/8/2025 at 10:45 AM, MNCountryLife said:

Every dollar of every contract matters.  We can say: "Pay the Man, he is worth it"... and he probably is.... but it won't change the fact that if we can get Rossi at $5M instead of $7M that leaves $2M more that can go to another player and make this team deeper.  So we play the money game. 

Like the $2M the Wild are still paying on Parise/Suter for three more years. That sure would come in handy right about now. For Kaprizov too.

[Scalptrash]

It's funny how everyone focuses on Rossi's size or slump at the end of the season. It doesn't matter when or where he got 60 points....he got 60 points. How many other Wild players put up 60? How many games were won because Rossi put up 60? How many points would Rossi have had if he didn't have a slump? 65-70? Would there even be a discussion if he didn't have a slump? I really like the one about him not performing because Kaprizov and Ek were out. They were out half the season and he still put up 60! How about Boldy's slumps? There is no talk about those here and they are very frequent. Free pass, big contract for the golden child....because he's taller?!?

As usual around here, ridiculous comments. Nothing has changed with Billy's perception of Rossi or he would have been signed long ago. Other teams, like the Wild, want immediate help, not picks or assets. This is why there haven't been any good offers. Every team is buying, not selling. If Billy was a halfway decent GM he could make something happen to make this team better. Blowing your Christmas fund on another over the hill vet is a safe move and he has any easy out when it fails. "It's only one year."

Billy will NOT bring a Stanley Cup to this city. He is out of his depth and is only prolonging any chance of building a real, championship hockey club. If I were Kaprizov, I'd run. Assuming getting his name on the cup is important to him. If he only cares about money, he'll stay and the Wild will overpay him to do so.

Confused again Citizen Strife?! ODC, are you offended that I criticized the second coming?

[Quebec1648]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

to me, size is weight and strength. height is not as important. boldy at 6'2 is not as physically imposing as matthew tkachuk at same height. so it's the body make up and how you use it. 

Guerin has been smart to avoid giving Rossi a long term deal at a high price tag, but he has also tanked Rossi`s trade value. Guerin shopped Rossi and got no offers that were any good. i guess to me it was more of a "what's best for the team" approach. the team was going into PO and had to have buy in from all.  i mentioned plenty of times that Rossi struggled and rightfully was demoted. if it tanked his value - then that's that - but i think that was the right move for the team. 

another point against the tanking is that a smart GM still sees thru the noise and can identify talent, so if Rossi was unfairly demoted, and value is at an all-time low, that's when you pounce and try to "steal" him for low offer. but that hasn't materialized yet. 

so depends on how you look at it. 

Given that Yurov is coming soon, where should Rossi play? Will he be playing 3rd or 4th line minutes? I don't see both players being in the top 6 at the same time. If Rossi gets demoted to bottom 6, that doesn't exactly help his trade value. i think if Rossi stays, we should use him in 2/3 line, perhaps Boldy, Rossi and Vlady will be a good trio. I'd start Ek, Kap and Zuccy. and See what you have with Yurov. He really is a wild card - who really knows? what do you think?

Rossi can bet on himself by taking a bridge deal, but that assumes he would be playing on the 1st or 2nd line to increase his value. With Guetin constantly bashing him in the media, I don't see Rossi wanting to stay here long term, unless it's a big money extension. i think he will be assuming he comes ready to go and shakes off the last part of the season. i also don't see Rossi in our LT plans. Not because i do not like him as a player, but it's because of how our team is currently constructed. we need to balance skill and finesse with strength and power, otherwise we will again be an easy out in the PO. Having Rossi, Yurov, Boldy, Zuccy, Vlad, Kap, Ek all be skill and finesse is not a good recipe. Yes, even Ek is really just a punching bag..... 🙂 

I can agree with the idea of a smart GM being able to properly evaluate Rossi and determine if he is good or not, but that does not necessarily help the Wild. If Bill Guerin is constantly trashing Rossi in the media and relegating him to bottom 6 minutes, no GM is going to feel obligated to make a quality offer. Why should they offer market value for a player the Wild seem disappointed with? If they keep making low offers, eventually Guerin will be left with no good trade options.

I don`t think Guerin values Rossi as anything more than a 4th line guy, so he should be focused on maximizing Rossi`s trade value. My preffered option would be to package Rossi as part of a deal for Brady Tkachuk, but that is unlikely. It would be in the best in the best interest of both parties to part ways.

In terms of size, Guerin seems content to let Brackett draft smaller players, so unless he orders Brackett to change that habit, he should simply change game plans. You can't draft undersized players and then bash them for not having the big physical game Guerin wants. If Guerin wants big body players, then draft guys who can be that type of player.

My ideal scenario, would be to pair a smaller skill / finess player like Kaprizov with a big body guy like Tkachuk. Same on defense, a skill / finess guy with a big dman to balance it out.

[Willy the poor boy]

16 minutes ago, Quebec1648 said:

If Bill Guerin is constantly trashing Rossi in the media and relegating him to bottom 6 minutes, no GM is going to feel obligated to make a quality offer. Why should they offer market value for a player the Wild seem disappointed with? If they keep making low offers, eventually Guerin will be left with no good trade options.

That's exactly what I think is happening.

[ArizonaWildFan]

5 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

I so want this crown.

Will, I'm sorry, but you don't deserve the crown. You consistently post well thought-out material and not recycled fantasy crap. Do our opinions always match, no. Am I always right and you're always wrong and vice versa, absolutely not.

I like the point that you made about the Kaprizov and Ek injuries exposing Rossi. Rather than immediately firing back something ludicrous at you, I'm going to ponder what you've written. You may have a very valid point.

Ideally, that's how this stuff works. Will you settle for Will D. Ness, Lord of the Hockey Wilderness?

[OldDutchChip]

7 minutes ago, Quebec1648 said:

I can agree with the idea of a smart GM being able to properly evaluate Rossi and determine if he is good or not, but that does not necessarily help the Wild. If Bill Guerin is constantly trashing Rossi in the media and relegating him to bottom 6 minutes, no GM is going to feel obligated to make a quality offer. Why should they offer market value for a player the Wild seem disappointed with? If they keep making low offers, eventually Guerin will be left with no good trade options.

I don`t think Guerin values Rossi as anything more than a 4th line guy, so he should be focused on maximizing Rossi`s trade value. My preffered option would be to package Rossi as part of a deal for Brady Tkachuk, but that is unlikely. It would be in the best in the best interest of both parties to part ways.

In terms of size, Guerin seems content to let Brackett draft smaller players, so unless he orders Brackett to change that habit, he should simply change game plans. You can't draft undersized players and then bash them for not having the big physical game Guerin wants. If Guerin wants big body players, then draft guys who can be that type of player.

My ideal scenario, would be to pair a smaller skill / finess player like Kaprizov with a big body guy like Tkachuk. Same on defense, a skill / finess guy with a big dman to balance it out.

i think a smart GM would look at it as what type of value they are bringing to their team vs what the type of value Rossi is viewed by our team. If they feel strongly about him - i think they'd buy low on him. but of course - it is in best interest of Bill (and Wild) to get Rossi back out there and being in the peak form. whether it's to remain with the team LT or as a trade piece - have him here and be in the top 6-9. the demotion was unfortunate not only for Rossi but for the team. i was really happy about his play during mid - season and was pointing out that if i had to pick - i'd pick Rossi over Boldy. That changed as the season wined down. I am hoping for the Rossi from early in the year, one who will make it hard for Billy to part with. 

My ideal scenario, would be to pair a smaller skill / finess player like Kaprizov with a big body guy like Tkachuk. 100% and to do that you need to entice OTT with an offer. Rossi alone won't be enough, and adding Ohgren won't be either. It'll have to be our top rookies. That's a diff topic though. 

as for the value - Rossi played in the top 6 most of the year. so we know that Billy thinks he can be a top guy. he then stumbled (which we have to acknowledge, it did happen). he wasn't ready for the leading role (nothing wrong with that - but it's also a reality). then PO came and his lack of physicality was another knock on him. all that lead to demotion and rightful promotion of Harty. 

all these things combine can explain why there is a hold-up in the contract and willingness to commit to him. finally the piece i am coming back to, and you also noted, the make up of our top 6. we cannot have such a soft group. billy has to hope that Rossi comes in, delivers the same type of 1st half as last year and then brings us someone who provides a better balance within our core top 6. that's why i do think he will be put in the right position to drive results for him and the team. but i do think it's for a short term only - he will likely be moved. 

[OldDutchChip]

Just now, ArizonaWildFan said:

Will, I'm sorry, but you don't deserve the crown. You consistently post well thought-out material and not recycled fantasy crap. Do our opinions always match, no. Am I always right and you're always wrong and vice versa, absolutely not.

I like the point that you made about the Kaprizov and Ek injuries exposing Rossi. Rather than immediately firing back something ludicrous at you, I'm going to ponder what you've written. You may have a very valid point.

Ideally, that's how this stuff works. Will you settle for Will D. Ness, Lord of the Hockey Wilderness?

zona - please tell me this was meant for me? very good to have such a welcoming community! 😍

Some dumbass or dumbasses are going to make a dumbass reply to this post. Waiting to see who gets crowned the King of Dumbasses.

[Enforceror]

10 hours ago, Jakub K. said:

khl.ru lists him as 185cm 80kg, that's 6'0.8" 176.4 lbs. If that's correct, he absolutely needs to add weight.

I found on a Russian site where he said he was around 185 now. I believe this was in April or May. 

[OldDutchChip]

31 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

It's funny how everyone focuses on Rossi's size or slump at the end of the season. It doesn't matter when or where he got 60 points....he got 60 points. How many other Wild players put up 60? How many games were won because Rossi put up 60? How many points would Rossi have had if he didn't have a slump? 65-70? Would there even be a discussion if he didn't have a slump? I really like the one about him not performing because Kaprizov and Ek were out. They were out half the season and he still put up 60! How about Boldy's slumps? There is no talk about those here and they are very frequent. Free pass, big contract for the golden child....because he's taller?!?

As usual around here, ridiculous comments. Nothing has changed with Billy's perception of Rossi or he would have been signed long ago. Other teams, like the Wild, want immediate help, not picks or assets. This is why there haven't been any good offers. Every team is buying, not selling. If Billy was a halfway decent GM he could make something happen to make this team better. Blowing your Christmas fund on another over the hill vet is a safe move and he has any easy out when it fails. "It's only one year."

Billy will NOT bring a Stanley Cup to this city. He is out of his depth and is only prolonging any chance of building a real, championship hockey club. If I were Kaprizov, I'd run. Assuming getting his name on the cup is important to him. If he only cares about money, he'll stay and the Wild will overpay him to do so.

Confused again Citizen Strife?! ODC, are you offended that I criticized the second coming?

plans change and/or take time to develop. i didn't like the vision previously, but Billy seems to have a good plan. so i'm ok with that. there is no bad contracts (no signees of Minnesotans on last leg) and he is set up to be one of the major players this year. kap seems to be happy. so i guess, i am happy too. 

Edited 1 hour ago by OldDutchChip

[OldDutchChip]

7 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

I found on a Russian site where he said he was around 185 now. I believe this was in April or May. 

i read an interview of his that he tries to model his game after MacK and McD....very nice company....guess we'll see 🙂

 

[Enforceror]

36 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i read an interview of his that he tries to model his game after MacK and McD....very nice company....guess we'll see 🙂

 

Isn't he supposed to say Kaprizov? 🤔

Not that I'd mind a Mac or Mc clone...

[Will D. Ness]

17 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Will, I'm sorry, but you don't deserve the crown. You consistently post well thought-out material and not recycled fantasy crap. Do our opinions always match, no. Am I always right and you're always wrong and vice versa, absolutely not.

I like the point that you made about the Kaprizov and Ek injuries exposing Rossi. Rather than immediately firing back something ludicrous at you, I'm going to ponder what you've written. You may have a very valid point.

Ideally, that's how this stuff works. Will you settle for Will D. Ness, Lord of the Hockey Wilderness?

Dude, I want the dumbass crown.  I'm as full of shit as anyone else.

Lord of Hockey Wilderness should go to a guy who brings stats and knowledge and puts in an effort to do research etc.