Article: The Mikael Granlund Contract Should Have Ended the Marco Rossi Debate

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

I wouldn't be completely unhappy at 5 x $5m, and I could probably swallow 4 x $5m, but the best thing for the Wild is to have the contract end while Rossi is still an RFA. 2 x $4-4.5m is right where Rossi is right now. It's not just the points but overall game. This contract is easy to move if necessary. 

It may sound like I'm being harsh on Rossi, but I'm not on the trade him bandwagon unless we really improve our team. My biggest issue is that he still needs strength to be the most effective player that he can be. But, if you look at how it went for Granny, how it went for Nino, and how it went for Coyle, they all got 2nd contracts with a low AAV. My point is that this is also how Rossi should be treated. It was recently that people start handing out large contracts to kids after their ELCs. I would say that the success rate on that is a little higher than 50%. 

But what we could do is have a mock arbitration case for Rossi even though it wouldn't count for anything. So, if I'm in Guerin's shoes, I look straight into the agents eyes and tell him "I don't know which player Marco is. Is he the one for the first 3/4 of the season, or the one for the last 1/4 of the season." "Let's go 2 years and he can prove which one he is."

The thing is, none of us really know which player he is. We've got the evidence of the injury that he played through, and that could be part of the reason, but the slide started well before the puck to the knee. Scoring 0 points and looking invisible against Colorado and Dallas and then scoring 3 points against San Jose makes you look like you're a ppg player. But really, are you? No, and that's the issue we have here. Does Rossi simply disappear in important games with better competition? 

I also would like to see angry Rossi, one with a chip on his shoulder like Marchand has played his whole career. We don't need any face licking, but I'd like to see him playing with that chip and getting into a few scrums, fighting for position, chipping at goalies who don't quite have the puck frozen. I don't think you get a look at that with $7m x 7 or $6m x 6. I think you probably do with $4-4.5m x 2. And, would this be a team value contract? You bet it is! 

When Granny got his 2nd contract, he put up another 40ish point year and then exploded on the wing with 69. Was 60 a mirage? I don't know and neither does anyone else. That's why you bridge at a low number. That carrot for the young guys still needs to be there. 

I am not going to debate what type of player I think Rossi will be.  All I know is he improved in every aspect of his game from year one to year two.  In Billy's tenure this is what he has done with his top players on ELC's, from what I remember.

Kap: played one year, signed 5-year extension at age 24 in 2021

EK:  Played 5 seasons, signed 8 year, $5.25 AAV at age 24 in 2021, which would be over $6m in todays salary cap.

Boldy: Played a year and a half, signed 7 year, $7M AAV at age 22 in Jan. of 2023

Faber:  Played one year, signed 8 year, $8.5M AAV at age 22.

Only top player that he did not sign that I remember is Fiala.  Might have if we had the money.  I would say that all of these contracts have been good contracts with a wait and see on Faber's.  Rossi is the only one, so far anyway, not to get offered long term into their UFA years.  All of those contracts have been fair to the player and the team. I don't think a 4-year contract is all that much, it is still very tradeable if that is the route we want to go.

My whole point of my first post was not what I thought he would or should get, it was what I thought would get a deal done

Edited 15 hours ago by SkolWild73

[WildNotMild]

27 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

how about i bring up matt duchene? yes he is older, but in the next 4 years he will for sure outperform Rossi. so how about that for comparison? Rossi at 4.5 for 4 years? no? 

also try to understand that this is not about just Rossi. Billy needs to construct a team that can actually win the SC and he has to be smart at it. he cannot overload our top 6 with players that share similar limitations, ones that will be exploited in the Playoffs. That is as simple as that. We need to diversify our top 6. 

Sure, if our team was Vegas then Rossi could slot in the top 6 and line up with brutes like Stone and Eichel.

OOOOOh let's make that happen - surely they'd trade Dorofeev for Rossi! Rossi kicks his butt in your precious point comparison 60 to 52....they would no doubt jump at that? 

no, of course they won't. there is a lesson in there if you can uncover it 😉

 

Duchene will be 38 at the end of his contract.  I don’t think he will outperform Rossi in total points for the next four years.  I doubt most who want to trade Rossi believe Duchene will put up more points in the next four years.  There you go playing fantasy GM again with Dorofeyev.  Still waiting for one of your “no brainer” trades to happen. 

I learned the real lesson from ODC on another thread on this forum about a week ago.  ODC is a lot like Billy:  a bully and thin skinned.  Talks a lot about being open minded and listening to other people’s opinions, but told me to f*** off when I pointed out his constant flip flopping and arguing with everyone.  I’ll leave you to your cheap magic tricks of smoke and mirrors knowing the inside scoop on Kaprizov, your guarantees, video game trades, etc.

Nothing worse than a stale old chip and a bag full of hot air.


 

[OldDutchChip]

37 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

Duchene will be 38 at the end of his contract.  I don’t think he will outperform Rossi in total points for the next four years.  I doubt most who want to trade Rossi believe Duchene will put up more points in the next four years.  There you go playing fantasy GM again with Dorofeyev.  Still waiting for one of your “no brainer” trades to happen. 

I learned the real lesson from ODC on another thread on this forum about a week ago.  ODC is a lot like Billy:  a bully and thin skinned.  Talks a lot about being open minded and listening to other people’s opinions, but told me to f*** off when I pointed out his constant flip flopping and arguing with everyone.  I’ll leave you to your cheap magic tricks of smoke and mirrors knowing the inside scoop on Kaprizov, your guarantees, video game trades, etc.

Nothing worse than a stale old chip and a bag full of hot air.


 

When Rossi reaches a point per game, let me know.

What’s wrong w Dorofeev vs Rossi comparison? It’s not good when it goes against your argument? You keep stating points as measure for McBain comp but I can’t do similar? 

Oh right, I remember - Your opinion is always accurate!

Me from the past was right - Go F off

[WildNotMild]

11 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

 

When Rossi reaches a point per game, let me know.

What’s wrong w Dorofeev vs Rossi comparison? It’s not good when it goes against your argument? You keep stating points as measure for McBain comp but I can’t do similar? 

Oh right, I remember - Your opinion is always accurate!

Me from the past was right - Go F off

A point per game player doesn’t seem to coincide with most of your fantasy trades.  Another flip flop.  Has there been the slightest hint that Dorofeyev is available?  Nope, also, Vegas doesn’t need another center AND doesn’t have a lot of cap room for a player like Rossi on any raise, hence another fantasy GM trade proposal unless you think Billy is going to sign him for 1.8M and force a trade on Vegas (he just has to call, right?).  You previously said that you don’t care about another player unless he is a free agent or available via trade.  Almost every player you mention doesn’t fit your own category.  Yet another flip flop by ODC.

As for my opinion, I state just that:  my opinion.  Most people on here do.  You guarantee this and that and talk like you know what Kaprizov and Billy will DEFINITELY do.  You don’t just offer your opinion.  You dismiss most other people’s opinions as stupid while simultaneously presenting yours as a fact.

Your response to me and others to f*** off when you don’t get your way shows how thin skinned and how much of a bully you are.  You don’t read people’s posts as they are written:  you don’t read to understand and possibly learn.  You instead read to argue which you do with almost every other poster.  The rest of us seem to be able to trade opinions back and forth just fine.  You should try it sometime and stop being so childish in telling everyone to f*** off when you don’t get your way.

 

 

 

[mnhockeyfan03]

Have to stop looking at players PPG totals.  There is way more to players than points. Anyone can get secondary assists on the PP like Zucc (which he shouldn’t be on PP anyway).  Compare 5x5 numbers.  This is why I would take Mcbain over Rossi.  When playoffs come Mcbain will matter and Rossi won’t unless he plays in the East.  I would really look at trading Rossi for Rust or Rakell in Pittsburgh and then sign Roslovic and Kuznetsov and trade Spurgeon and Ohgren to Detroit for Danielson.  

[goenzoy]

44 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

When Rossi reaches a point per game, let me know.

What’s wrong w Dorofeev vs Rossi comparison? It’s not good when it goes against your argument? You keep stating points as measure for McBain comp but I can’t do similar? 

Oh right, I remember - Your opinion is always accurate!

Me from the past was right - Go

Rossi doesn't to be a point per game player

60 or better will do the job . And with Kaprisov healthy and Yurov added it is achievable

[mnhockeyfan03]

Preferably Rakell over Rust.  I think Billy is trying to get a short term deal done for Rossi he can move that is appealing to other teams.  

[SkolWild73]

7 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Have to stop looking at players PPG totals.  There is way more to players than points. Anyone can get secondary assists on the PP like Zucc (which he shouldn’t be on PP anyway).  Compare 5x5 numbers.  This is why I would take Mcbain over Rossi.  When playoffs come Mcbain will matter and Rossi won’t unless he plays in the East.  I would really look at trading Rossi for Rust or Rakell in Pittsburgh and then sign Roslovic and Kuznetsov and trade Spurgeon and Ohgren to Detroit for Danielson.  

Look up Rossi’s 5x5 stats

[mnhockeyfan03]

Just now, SkolWild73 said:

Look up Rossi’s 5x5 stats

Looks at his stats against playoff teams in the west.  That tells the whole story.  He disappears

[WildNotMild]

3 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Preferably Rakell over Rust.  I think Billy is trying to get a short term deal done for Rossi he can move that is appealing to other teams.  

I have thought this as well.  Do you think Rossi will eventually sign such a deal?  It sounds like a two year deal was offered and turned down.  Rossi could make it difficult on Billy by not signing anything for as long as possible (to his own detriment as well).  Billy can still trade his rights, but I don’t think another team will give up much, if anything, if Rossi isn’t immediately willing to sign a contract with the new team.

[OldDutchChip]

20 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

A point per game player doesn’t seem to coincide with most of your fantasy trades.  Another flip flop.  Has there been the slightest hint that Dorofeyev is available?  Nope, also, Vegas doesn’t need another center AND doesn’t have a lot of cap room for a player like Rossi on any raise, hence another fantasy GM trade proposal unless you think Billy is going to sign him for 1.8M and force a trade on Vegas (he just has to call, right?).  You previously said that you don’t care about another player unless he is a free agent or available via trade.  Almost every player you mention doesn’t fit your own category.  Yet another flip flop by ODC.

As for my opinion, I state just that:  my opinion.  Most people on here do.  You guarantee this and that and talk like you know what Kaprizov and Billy will DEFINITELY do.  You don’t just offer your opinion.  You dismiss most other people’s opinions as stupid while simultaneously presenting yours as a fact.

Your response to me and others to f*** off when you don’t get your way shows how thin skinned and how much of a bully you are.  You don’t read people’s posts as they are written:  you don’t read to understand and possibly learn.  You instead read to argue which you do with almost every other poster.  The rest of us seem to be able to trade opinions back and forth just fine.  You should try it sometime and stop being so childish in telling everyone to f*** off when you don’t get your way.

 

 

 

dorofeev was a hypothetical scenario - to show you that the value of a player goes beyond a simple point-to-point comparison. but i see you immediately jumped on it as a chance to ridicule me? I am an idiot, no one likes me, i can't or don't read posts and i live in a fantasy land and basically very very stupid....good! i am glad to be all of that then be you 

your righteousness and know-it-all attitude is off putting and disgusting, not to mention very disrespectful at the core. there are multiple points of view and you hold yours to be the ultimate one. 

you say i dismiss everyone and hold my opinion as law? that's absurd! my opinion evolves with new information and discussion with others on here. i can say everyone but you have had a conversation with me where i said "yeah you right". even my friend Freddy.  

and you continue to post crap about my thoughts, views, approach and  purpose on this forum, but then you know what -  i will hold the right to call that BS out every time. 

you are only one single voice with a very aggressive stance when your opinion is challenged. well you can bet i'll be calling that shit out. 

 

[1Brotherbill]

So, lets pump the breaks on the comparisons and say the Wild should sign Rossi to a 7 million deal.  Granlund signed a 3 million dollar 3 year deal after his ELC. A 5.75 million dollar 5 year deal after that.  A one year 3 million deal.  then a 6 year 5 million deal.  Finally he has his 7 million dollar a year deal.  So, with all of his 60 point seasons and long career he has averaged about 5 million a year.  

Now what does that mean for Rossi?  Well the financials are higher in the league now so a 5 million dollar deal should be a bit higher.  Let's say a 6 million dollar a year deal.  And Rossi has put up good numbers at an early point in his career.  However, he is not great at faceoffs and is still on the small sizes.  

A 5.5 to 6.5 million deal until 2029 would be fair and valuable.  Anything over that would be over spending.  If a RFA deal comes in over 7 the Wild should consider letting him go and take the compensation.  They would be weak at center but in the long run they have more flexibility.

Rossi is not the corner stone on Minnesota winning a Stanley Cup.  I don't care how much lipstick you put on this, he is not that guy.  Can he be on a team that wins a Stanley Cup, without a doubt.  But he isn't going to be the guy to hoist the Finals MVP trophy.  So, spending all the money on this guy just isn't smart. 

[mnhockeyfan03]

12 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

I have thought this as well.  Do you think Rossi will eventually sign such a deal?  It sounds like a two year deal was offered and turned down.  Rossi could make it difficult on Billy by not signing anything for as long as possible (to his own detriment as well).  Billy can still trade his rights, but I don’t think another team will give up much, if anything, if Rossi isn’t immediately willing to sign a contract with the new team.

I think Rossi either signs a 2x4.5mm deal and then gets dealt to another team soon after or at the trade deadline OR the other option he has is to sit out or play in Europe but that will almost ruin his career.  He has no leverage unless he can get a team to offersheet him which I don’t think is likely. 

[WildNotMild]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

dorofeev was a hypothetical scenario - to show you that the value of a player goes beyond a simple point-to-point comparison. but i see you immediately jumped on it as a chance to ridicule me? I am an idiot, no one likes me, i can't or don't read posts and i live in a fantasy land and basically very very stupid....good! i am glad to be all of that then be you 

your righteousness and know-it-all attitude is off putting and disgusting, not to mention very disrespectful at the core. there are multiple points of view and you hold yours to be the ultimate one. 

you say i dismiss everyone and hold my opinion as law? that's absurd! my opinion evolves with new information and discussion with others on here. i can say everyone but you have had a conversation with me where i said "yeah you right". even my friend Freddy.  

and you continue to post crap about my thoughts, views, approach and  purpose on this forum, but then you know what -  i will hold the right to call that BS out every time. 

you are only one single voice with a very aggressive stance when your opinion is challenged. well you can bet i'll be calling that shit out. 

 

I usually write things like “I think” in my posts to clearly show it is an opinion.  ODC, have I ever once guaranteed anything like you.  If so, please quote it.

I have previously said and am saying again that I have been a regular reader of this site for years before ever posting.  I have seen you go beyond arguing with lots of posters AND tell lots of posters to f*** off.  I have done no such thing.  If I have, please quote it.  Again, the situation we are in is common for you, not me.

You could easily ignore my posts, but you can’t.  I respond to your responses, not the other way around.

Just because I am willing to stand up to the site bully (you), does not make me the bully.  

[Burnt Toast]

6 hours ago, 0 Stanley Cups said:

The way Rossi has been treated

They can also look at Faber/Boldy/KK. If you throw in the older players’ extensions I think the Wild have been fair. That’s why the Rossi situation stands out. I think management isn’t sold on him yet.

[OldDutchChip]

13 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

I usually write things like “I think” in my posts to clearly show it is an opinion.  ODC, have I ever once guaranteed anything like you.  If so, please quote it.

I have previously said and am saying again that I have been a regular reader of this site for years before ever posting.  I have seen you go beyond arguing with lots of posters AND tell lots of posters to f*** off.  I have done no such thing.  If I have, please quote it.  Again, the situation we are in is common for you, not me.

You could easily ignore my posts, but you can’t.  I respond to your responses, not the other way around.

Just because I am willing to stand up to the site bully (you), does not make me the bully.  

I have previously said and am saying again that I have been a regular reader of this site for years before ever posting.  I have seen you go beyond arguing with lots of posters AND tell lots of posters to f*** off. ok so i have registered on this site on April 2024. you falsely say multiple years of this torture that you've been witnessing. so are you giving me credit for someone else or just adding it for more drama!!

You could easily ignore my posts, but you can’t.  I respond to your responses, not the other way around.it's a forum - people respond....but i do understand, believe me i do! you want responses that you like, that don't challenge your opinion, that give you praise. well  now - i am not that. 

Just because I am willing to stand up to the site bully (you), does not make me the bully.  you moral makeup is unquestioned of course, but advise if i may - try to not see your self as a hero but simply as a person. it may help remove the enormous burden you carry. 🍻

[WildNotMild]

21 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

I have previously said and am saying again that I have been a regular reader of this site for years before ever posting.  I have seen you go beyond arguing with lots of posters AND tell lots of posters to f*** off. ok so i have registered on this site on April 2024. you falsely say multiple years of this torture that you've been witnessing. so are you giving me credit for someone else or just adding it for more drama!!

You could easily ignore my posts, but you can’t.  I respond to your responses, not the other way around.it's a forum - people respond....but i do understand, believe me i do! you want responses that you like, that don't challenge your opinion, that give you praise. well  now - i am not that. 

Just because I am willing to stand up to the site bully (you), does not make me the bully.  you moral makeup is unquestioned of course, but advise if i may - try to not see your self as a hero but simply as a person. it may help remove the enormous burden you carry. 🍻

Please read my posts more than once.  Read to understand INSTEAD of reading just to argue.  One sentence says that I have been reading this site for years.  It doesn’t say I have been reading your posts for years.  A different succinct sentence says that you go beyond arguing and telling multiple posters to f*** off.  Typical ODC behavior to not respond to what is actually written and instead create chaos by arguing what he wants things to say.

I don’t think I will have a similar situation with another poster.  I strongly think ODC will have this exact type of situation with multiple other posters moving forward.

I agree that the point of this forum is for discussion and haven’t had an issue with any other posters disagreeing with me frequently.  ODC doesn’t just disagree, he attacks and often demeans others and will continue to do so:  classic bully behavior.

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

Please read my posts more than once.  Read to understand INSTEAD of reading just to argue.  One sentence says that I have been reading this site for years.  It doesn’t say I have been reading your posts for years.  A different succinct sentence says that you go beyond arguing and telling multiple posters to f*** off.  Typical ODC behavior to not respond to what is actually written and instead create chaos by arguing what he wants things to say.

I don’t think I will have a similar situation with another poster.  I strongly think ODC will have this exact type of situation with multiple other posters moving forward.

I agree that the point of this forum is for discussion and haven’t had an issue with any other posters disagreeing with me frequently.  ODC doesn’t just disagree, he attacks and often demeans others and will continue to do so:  classic bully behavior.

I have previously said and am saying again that I have been a regular reader of this site for years before ever posting.  I have seen you go beyond arguing with lots of posters AND tell lots of posters to f*** off.  

first sentence you provide the timing and link the two. otherwise, why do it? it serve no purpose. thus, you claim that i've been terrorizing the forum for years! goodness. maybe think of how your responses and approach are viewed? or is it always the other person that is at fault?

I strongly think ODC will have this exact type of situation with multiple other posters moving forward. you are doing it again. "he is against us people, can't you see!" strongly is a strong word.....maybe loosen up a bit? it's a forum to talk hockey! i have very good communication with almost all the people on the forum. and even if we disagree - i believe we all understand that at the root - we all want our team to do well.  yet you have this paranoid stance of "he is out to get me" or "run and save yourself". maybe try relaxing?

ODC doesn’t just disagree, he attacks and often demeans others and will continue to do so:  classic bully behavior. what? i am like a white shark! again - look in the mirror. try to understand that other people have different opinions (which is normal) and they might just differ from yours. it's ok. it's also ok to know that you can be wrong at time. maybe one time! try it?

[WildNotMild]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

I have previously said and am saying again that I have been a regular reader of this site for years before ever posting.  I have seen you go beyond arguing with lots of posters AND tell lots of posters to f*** off.  

first sentence you provide the timing and link the two. otherwise, why do it? it serve no purpose. thus, you claim that i've been terrorizing the forum for years! goodness. maybe think of how your responses and approach are viewed? or is it always the other person that is at fault?

I strongly think ODC will have this exact type of situation with multiple other posters moving forward. you are doing it again. "he is against us people, can't you see!" strongly is a strong word.....maybe loosen up a bit? it's a forum to talk hockey! i have very good communication with almost all the people on the forum. and even if we disagree - i believe we all understand that at the root - we all want our team to do well.  yet you have this paranoid stance of "he is out to get me" or "run and save yourself". maybe try relaxing?

ODC doesn’t just disagree, he attacks and often demeans others and will continue to do so:  classic bully behavior. what? i am like a white shark! again - look in the mirror. try to understand that other people have different opinions (which is normal) and they might just differ from yours. it's ok. it's also ok to know that you can be wrong at time. maybe one time! try it?

Wow, ODC can’t own he is wrong.  Two separate sentences that he misreads and still blames me on multiple posts.

Would you prefer I say I guarantee that you will tell another poster to f*** off and argue like this with another poster?  You definitely have a pattern of behavior for these conflicts.  I do not.

When called out, a bully will often play the victim.  This is what ODC continues to do.  I am calling you out on your clear record.  Again, you have had similar situations with multiple posters.  I and others have not.  You use guarantees, I and others have not.  
 

Keep trying to create chaos ODC.  I have the private messages from other posters to let me know I am not alone in my opinions about you.

[OldDutchChip]

11 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

Wow, ODC can’t own he is wrong.  Two separate sentences that he misreads and still blames me on multiple posts.

Would you prefer I say I guarantee that you will tell another poster to f*** off and argue like this with another poster?  You definitely have a pattern of behavior for these conflicts.  I do not.

When called out, a bully will often play the victim.  This is what ODC continues to do.  I am calling you out on your clear record.  Again, you have had similar situations with multiple posters.  I and others have not.  You use guarantees, I and others have not.  
 

Keep trying to create chaos ODC.  I have the private messages from other posters to let me know I am not alone in my opinions about you.

this is not the first time you claimed i have been menacing this site for years while you stood watch, only recently joining arms to combat my treachery. 

When called out, a bully will often play the victim.  This is what ODC continues to do.  I am calling you out on your clear record. what clear record? i am always wrong and never right and always right and never wrong! you silly goose - this is a site that allows a fan to dream - you instead try to tyrannize it and have one voice on all decisions and thoughts. allow another voice or a vision and dream a bit. stop being a victim, you are not one. 

Private messages? you have a club? i am honored! and only slightly disturbed!

[WildNotMild]

1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

this is not the first time you claimed i have been menacing this site for years while you stood watch, only recently joining arms to combat my treachery. 

When called out, a bully will often play the victim.  This is what ODC continues to do.  I am calling you out on your clear record. what clear record? i am always wrong and never right and always right and never wrong! you silly goose - this is a site that allows a fan to dream - you instead try to tyrannize it and have one voice on all decisions and thoughts. allow another voice or a vision and dream a bit. stop being a victim, you are not one. 

Private messages? you have a club? i am honored! and only slightly disturbed!

I am going to ignore you.  I think ODC enjoys this, sad but true.  

[WildNotMild]

And just like that, he is gone.  Thank you for the tips on how to make that happen.

[OldDutchChip]

42 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

And just like that, he is gone.  Thank you for the tips on how to make that happen.

you and zona have an anti me club? yay!  i've done some good!

later!

[Fortis]

14 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

It seems easy to me being a math guy.  One side offered 5x5, the other asked for 7x7, middle ground would say 6x6.  Use that as a new starting point and it shouldn’t take long.  If I am Rossi, I would want a 4 year deal to bring me to UFA status.  4x6-7 seems fair

You can’t walk into a car dealership, offer them $20,000 for a car stickered at $30,000, and expect them to “fairly” meet you in the middle.

BG is clearly trying to manipulate and lowball Rossi’s contract. No wonder no one wants to play here.

[Jakub K.]

17 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

All we have listed on him is his draft weight. We have no idea the body building he's done in Russia.

khl.ru lists him as 185cm 80kg, that's 6'0.8" 176.4 lbs. If that's correct, he absolutely needs to add weight.