Article: Offer Sheeting Marco Rossi Would Be A Win-Win For Minnesota's Central Division Rivals

[mnfaninnc]

3 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

Are you just arguing to argue? You asked what big names have been traded, there is a list. There have been moves, some big moves, but the Wild have made zero. Except use up more cap space for another has been.

The one on my list was Kreider, I think he could have helped us, and it doesn't look like NYR was looking for much return. If we had done that and put Tarasenko on board, I'd be happy. 

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

in all likelihood - DET is not in the PO next year and likely be towards the bottom of the standing.... it would be kinda awesome for us to luck in to their top 5 pick.

That would mean Stevie Y is probably out in Detroit. I still think a Danielson for Spurgeon could be a win-win trade for them. I have them making playoffs next season.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

That would mean Stevie Y is probably out in Detroit. I still think a Danielson for Spurgeon could be a win-win trade for them. I have them making playoffs next season.

i doubt they can get in as top 4 in atlantic - FL, Tampa, TOR, OTT are ahead of them, not to mention maybe Sabres finally come to play. But maybe a WC birth - but that's their ceiling. 

[mnfaninnc]

As for the article, I don't think Tony quite hit the nail on the head, in fact, it's kind of a shank. What GM is going to waste their time with a $6.5-7m offer for Rossi? It's just going to be matched. Are you just trying to piss off Guerin? Most GMs like to have a working relationship with other GMs. There's a few that don't care. 

I don't see Rossi moving unless that offer is >$7.1m. It's not much, but it is in compensation. That's a 1, 2, 3 unprotected in next year's draft. I think I'm right on the contract number but it might be $7.2m. 

If I'm in Guerin's office right now, I'm matching anything with a 1, 3  compensation. At 1, 2, 3, I'm reading the deal. Depending on who the team is that's offering it, I'm considering the compensation. 

If it's Chicago, I think I take the compensation. If it's a team in the upper echelon, I think I swallow hard and match. Then I'd circle that team on the board and try to figure out how I'm going to get them to screw the pooch. 

When Guerin played, I wonder if he had rivalries? I wonder if he had a little hate in him? I see him as a guy who had plenty of guys he'd give a little extra shove, or a little harder body to in his playing days. Maybe he needs a few more villains in his life!

[Burnt Toast]

In 20 years exactly 12 offer sheet transactions have been completed. 44 in the history of the NHL. Everyone is talking about it but I find it difficult to take seriously. I guess if it does happen I’ll be like one of those people in a scary movie that did something stupid.

Edited Tuesday at 10:41 PM by Burnt Toast
Spelling

[MacGyver]

9 hours ago, greg said:

Oh yes they will tout the upcoming signing of Kaprisov.

They are not touting anything yet. You don't think Kaprizov has heard all the Christmas hype from CL and Billy? You don't think Kaprizov doesn't see what we see? It's not money that's going to get Kaprizov to stay. It's winning and it better be sooner than later. So now Christmas in July has been postponed indefinitely and we don't know exactly what Chrismas means. There is a big problem attracting high end UFA's here. Tarasenko is just looking for a paycheck and Sturm is the unicorn who actually wants to be here. 

I wonder why Boeser did a 180 and decided to sign with Vancouver? 

I have said before Billy is probably as polarizing around the league GM's and players as he is on this board. 

Edited Tuesday at 11:46 PM by MacGyver

[SkolWild73]

Below is an article with Billy saying they are prepared to match any offer sheet for Rossi should one come in.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/minnesota-wild-confident-about-resigning-marco-rossi-kirill-kaprizov

[ArizonaWildFan]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

It's not money that's going to get Kaprizov to stay. It's winning and it better be sooner than later.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, Mac. But stories are out there that Kaprizov called Tarasenko a few times on Monday and encouraged him to sign with the Wild. Sounded like Vlad had some sort of NMC and Kirill was trying to talk him into waiving it.

You don't invite someone to a party and then not show up yourself. Maybe the conversation was to give the Wild a season to see what happens and then both leave or both stay? Maybe it was Kirill is signing and he wants Tarasenko to be his next Lizard? Hard to say. Would have liked to have read about an extension signed today, though.

[ArizonaWildFan]

What a strange offseason so far for the Wild and the rest of the league. Panthers managed to keep their Cup winning roster together for the most part somehow. Utah is going to be a tough out in the West. Vegas adding Marner. No easy games on the schedule next season... but there never are for our beloved Wild.

[Enforceror]

16 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, Mac. But stories are out there that Kaprizov called Tarasenko a few times on Monday and encouraged him to sign with the Wild. Sounded like Vlad had some sort of NMC and Kirill was trying to talk him into waiving it.

You don't invite someone to a party and then not show up yourself. Maybe the conversation was to give the Wild a season to see what happens and then both leave or both stay? Maybe it was Kirill is signing and he wants Tarasenko to be his next Lizard? Hard to say. Would have liked to have read about an extension signed today, though.

This is what clinched it for me. I spend a fair amount of time reading and listening to interviews. I was 80% sure KK was going to re-sign with us based on his exit interview. Knowing now that he convinced Tarasenko to sign here boosts that to 90% for me. Pretty sure he's not going anywhere.

[fikifuka]

14 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

As for the article, I don't think Tony quite hit the nail on the head, in fact, it's kind of a shank. What GM is going to waste their time with a $6.5-7m offer for Rossi? It's just going to be matched. Are you just trying to piss off Guerin? Most GMs like to have a working relationship with other GMs. There's a few that don't care. 

I don't see Rossi moving unless that offer is >$7.1m. It's not much, but it is in compensation. That's a 1, 2, 3 unprotected in next year's draft. I think I'm right on the contract number but it might be $7.2m. 

If I'm in Guerin's office right now, I'm matching anything with a 1, 3  compensation. At 1, 2, 3, I'm reading the deal. Depending on who the team is that's offering it, I'm considering the compensation. 

If it's Chicago, I think I take the compensation. If it's a team in the upper echelon, I think I swallow hard and match. Then I'd circle that team on the board and try to figure out how I'm going to get them to screw the pooch. 

When Guerin played, I wonder if he had rivalries? I wonder if he had a little hate in him? I see him as a guy who had plenty of guys he'd give a little extra shove, or a little harder body to in his playing days. Maybe he needs a few more villains in his life!

Look, Guerin is playing games, publicly, with purpose  with that "we match it anyway"  joke. The point is: What does he do, when Rossi signs an offer 7 M for 5 years? Thats exactly his market value and he knows. You can't offer 5/5 and talk about pay structure and then match a 7 M/5 offer. Nice try, but will not work. Other Gms and agents are not stupid. 

[ArizonaWildFan]

I love analogies and try to come up with them to understand and explain situations. I think I have one for GMBG:

Bill as GM is like that high school kid who is a tweener; not one of the real cool guys but not a total loser, either. He's got a decent car but not a sweet ride. He's OK looking but he's no Brad Pitt. He can get dates with the chubby girls with cute smiles but can't score with the smokin' hot chicks. He hasn't had much money in the past few years but he's got a few bucks in his pocket now. He's trying to move up and hang with the studs but everyone still sees him for who he was and not who he wants to be.

Well, it's the week before prom and he's scheming to land a major smoke show to let all the others know that he's one of the cool kids. Problem is that the hotties still see him hanging around with the easy girls (Johansson), or they see him treat the nice girls that don't put out like he wants poorly (Rossi), or they will only hang out with him if they can bring their ugly friends (Tarasenko and Zuccarello).

How does poor Billy solve his dilemma?

[Pewterschmidt]

14 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Billy is probably as polarizing around the league GM's and players as he is on this board.

Unfortunately for Wild fans I think you're onto something.  MN is already not a NHL destination for players.  Not sure why (postseason success history, taxes (which has been covered ad naseum), org. culture) but I believe it's reality.  Now add to the mix thin skinned thick headed bill.  He of the front office law suit drama.  He of the "Kevin had a couple good games" cut of his nose to spite his own face stupidity.  As previously stated, a winning organization can endure alot of bad management decisions.  Hell even an organization that goes sideways for years can endure alot of bad management if you're lucky enough to be based in the State of Hockey with it's build in, permanent fan base.  But bill seems to be teetering on the edge here.  

What would it take for bill to fall of the edge P-strodomous?  failing to sign 97 would be a death blow for sure.  While i don't think its a slam dunk, I think he gets it done.  It'll be a short term deal so 97 can spend the back nine of his career on a Cup team if it isn't happening here.

But I do think bill could manage to get himself run out of town even if he resigns 97.  He's been the Freddy G of GM's in his time here.  Doing just enough to be kept around but nothing to advance the organization.  I have to believe bill's tenure hangs by a thread of OCL's patience, and bill making OCL look like a fool (ie Christmas morning) ain't helping bill's cause.

[Scalptrash]

14 hours ago, MacGyver said:

They are not touting anything yet. You don't think Kaprizov has heard all the Christmas hype from CL and Billy? You don't think Kaprizov doesn't see what we see? It's not money that's going to get Kaprizov to stay. It's winning and it better be sooner than later. So now Christmas in July has been postponed indefinitely and we don't know exactly what Chrismas means. There is a big problem attracting high end UFA's here. Tarasenko is just looking for a paycheck and Sturm is the unicorn who actually wants to be here. 

I wonder why Boeser did a 180 and decided to sign with Vancouver? 

I have said before Billy is probably as polarizing around the league GM's and players as he is on this board. 

I agree, I bet Kaprizov is more than disappointed. The Wild finally had cap space and assets to do something big and they did the opposite. They sand bagged themselves with another overpaid old vet. Is being another Russian supposed to appease Kaprizov? The Wild could have seriously made a play for Marner, they had everything they needed and did nothing. Billy is a small minded fool who is in over his head.

We've been hearing rumors for months, if not years, that Boeser was coming home. Not sure what happened there, but trading for Tarasenko was probably the nail in the coffin. From the articles I read about Vancouver, it was very toxic, unprofessional, and Boeser couldn't wait to get out of there. What changed? He also gave up an additional $1-2M/year by re-signing there (that's a ton of money when your career is so short). Very odd indeed.

Billy has an ego problem, he thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Since all of the decent free agents have come and gone, and nobody is interested in Rossi, his new plan is to re-sign him cheap and trade him at the deadline. Funny how his tune about him changed so drastically in the last 48 hours. I would have to imagine this only makes Rossi even more upset and wanting to get out.

Why didn't they go after Ehlers? Again, they have everything needed to get it done and didn't even try. Is it because good players want a chance at getting their name on the cup and they know it will never happen here? This is where old players go to die now and the league knows it.

[SkolWild73]

53 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

The Wild could have seriously made a play for Marner, they had everything they needed and did nothing. Billy is a small minded fool who is in over his head.

Marner had a full no movement clause.  We were not in play for him.  If he wasn't traded to Vegas in a sign and trade, he would have signed there.

[B1GKappa97]

22 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

These are the just the bigger names that Wild could have benefitted from.

Marner

Peterka

Dobson

Kane

Coyle

Zegras

Marchment

Kreider

I don't think this is a realistic list at all. 

Why do you want Billy to get another blue-liner again? We have Spurgy, Buium, Faber, Middsy, Brodin, Bogosian and Jiricek all ready to roll for this year. 

And, for what its worth, they did try to trade for both Peterka and Coyle. Those teams just took other offers. 

[Scalptrash]

1 minute ago, B1GKappa97 said:

I don't think this is a realistic list at all. 

Why do you want Billy to get another blue-liner again? We have Spurgy, Buium, Faber, Middsy, Brodin, Bogosian and Jiricek all ready to roll for this year. 

And, for what its worth, they did try to trade for both Peterka and Coyle. Those teams just took other offers. 

The list was big moves that were made by other teams when it was implied that none were. Peterka yes, Coyle no, and Billy didn't really try that hard.

[B1GKappa97]

7 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

The list was big moves that were made by other teams when it was implied that none were. Peterka yes, Coyle no, and Billy didn't really try that hard.

You implied with that list that those were moves the Wild could/should have made. I'm just pointing out that a lot of those wouldn't make sense for this roster. 

According to Russo, Billy was interested in Coyle. He would've fit what Billy was looking for to get Ek some help, so I don't see why you think he didn't try that hard. Maybe Colorado just didn't want to benefit a Central team they'll be combatting for a playoff spot? 

[mnfaninnc]

4 hours ago, fikifuka said:

Look, Guerin is playing games, publicly, with purpose  with that "we match it anyway"  joke. The point is: What does he do, when Rossi signs an offer 7 M for 5 years? Thats exactly his market value and he knows. You can't offer 5/5 and talk about pay structure and then match a 7 M/5 offer. Nice try, but will not work. Other Gms and agents are not stupid.

Sure it will work. If no GM decides to offersheet Rossi, then Guerin has complete control over what he wants Rossi to play for next season. The QO is likely somewhere around $1.2m. Guerin can reach out for a 2 year bridge deal, or he can once again present 5 x $5m. 

With an offersheet, it is all about compensation for Guerin. If someone wants to give Rossi a 5 x $7m offersheet with some clauses, Guerin merely has to match it. I think for Rossi, if I'm in Guerin's shoes, a 1, 3 in next year's draft is too low, so, since I have the money, I simply match.

What got Edmonton into trouble last season was they didn't have match money on either of their candidates. St. Louis took advantage of a GM turnover, never really liked Stan Bowman in the first place, and took advantage of their situation. 

When Montreal tried to do it to Carolina, Waddell said thank you very much to Montreal, matched, and went on summer vacation. He then remembered it and crafted a 2 year deal outside of Montreal's range on Kotkaniemi and got him, later signing him for less long term. 

So, if 5 x $7m is market value for Rossi, why can't Guerin match that? He talks about salary structure, and then he's got a market oriented offer. He can go back, re-evaluate, and match no problem. 

Now, let's say that the team interested in Rossi goes to 5 x $7.5m which isn't that much of a boost. Now you're talking about a 1, 2,  3 in next year's draft. If I'm in Guerin's shoes, now you've got my attention. I will look up and down your roster and see what you have. I will have my analytics guys run simulations of us with and without Rossi, and the opposing team with him to project where they'll be in the standings. If I believe that's a top 10 selection coming my way in a deep draft where I can find someone decent in the 2nd round too, then I've got another 5 days to ponder what I want to do. 

Any team hoping to get Rossi must know that it's going to take $7.5mish to get Rossi over. If it's, say, Chicago, I take the compensation, probably in less than a week. If it's Utah, I'm looking at something middling around the mid teens. If it's Dallas, I'm thinking of matching,  as we're looking at a 1st somewhere around the late 20s. 

The thing is that nobody really gave Guerin much of a deal to move him. I think Guerin's expectation was going to a 1, 2, 3 scenario as a baseline for a deal, since he knows he can get that with an offersheet. It appears that nobody was willing to give him that compensation in a trade and I think he feels fairly secure that nobody will offersheet at that level. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Scalptrash said:

The Wild could have seriously made a play for Marner, they had everything they needed and did nothing. Billy is a small minded fool who is in over his head.

What makes you think that Guerin didn't check in with Marner's agent? His agent could have easily told him no, in which case Guerin just pivoted. You and I have no way of knowing if this took place or not. 

 

1 hour ago, Scalptrash said:

Why didn't they go after Ehlers? Again, they have everything needed to get it done and didn't even try. Is it because good players want a chance at getting their name on the cup and they know it will never happen here?

Maybe because Ehlers has had 1 good playoff (his last) and is smaller than Rossi. Perhaps Guerin didn't think Ehlers would fit in to a 200' game style he sees being played. The majority of players on this team are well suited for that playing style, and Tarasenko knows how to play it too. 

You don't just go out and sign some guy to sign some guy. He needs to be a correct fit. Zuccarello is an example of Fenton going out and signing some guy because he'd come here. Havlat is another example. Ehlers does not get us closer to getting out of the 1st round. I'd argue that Sturm has a better shot of helping us than Ehlers does. 

If you want to address why it seemed like Guerin didn't go after Kreider, I'd give you that argument. I suspect that Kreider didn't want to come here, even though he'd be closer to a Cup than in Anaheim at the time he left. 

[Pewterschmidt]

28 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

The thing is that nobody really gave Guerin much of a deal to move him. I think Guerin's expectation was going to a 1, 2, 3 scenario as a baseline for a deal, since he knows he can get that with an offersheet. It appears that nobody was willing to give him that compensation in a trade and I think he feels fairly secure that nobody will offersheet at that level. 

I think you may be right on this, and if thick headed thin skinned bill played it this way I'll give him credit for not fucking it up.  it's not over yet, and it's not exactly 4 dimensional chess GM'ing, but I'll still give bill credit if we can get Rossi on a short term deal around $5M

[MacGyver]

15 hours ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, Mac. But stories are out there that Kaprizov called Tarasenko a few times on Monday and encouraged him to sign with the Wild. Sounded like Vlad had some sort of NMC and Kirill was trying to talk him into waiving it.

You don't invite someone to a party and then not show up yourself. Maybe the conversation was to give the Wild a season to see what happens and then both leave or both stay? Maybe it was Kirill is signing and he wants Tarasenko to be his next Lizard? Hard to say. Would have liked to have read about an extension signed today, though.

This I had not heard. Click bait or reported fact who knows? If true my first reaction would be Kaprizov may not be as smart as I was giving him credit for or money is more of a factor for him than I thought. My question to  you guys is can the Wild over pay for Kaprizov? I say yes. I think anything north of $14M is an overpay. He is proving to not be the most durable player.  Given the awesome negotiations tactics by our front office by announcing loudly and proudly that no one will pay Kaprizov more than the Wild and knowing who his agent is the Wild could actually get fleeced on this deal. I wonder if McDavid and Kaprizov are waiting for the other to sign first to see how high the money goes. 

McDavid is worth more obviously. Oilers and Wild are in similar positions with these signings. 

 

[Scalptrash]

8 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

This I had not heard. Click bait or reported fact who knows? If true my first reaction would be Kaprizov may not be as smart as I was giving him credit for or money is more of a factor for him than I thought. My question to  you guys is can the Wild over pay for Kaprizov? I say yes. I think anything north of $14M is an overpay. He is proving to not be the most durable player.  Given the awesome negotiations tactics by our front office by announcing loudly and proudly that no one will pay Kaprizov more than the Wild and knowing who his agent is the Wild could actually get fleeced on this deal. I wonder if McDavid and Kaprizov are waiting for the other to sign first to see how high the money goes. 

McDavid is worth more obviously. Oilers and Wild are in similar positions with these signings. 

 

Tarasenko said in his welcome interview that he spoke with Kaprizov on the phone AFTER he was traded to the Wild. He was not coaxed by Kaprizov to come here, that's not how trades work.

[Scalptrash]

2 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

Marner had a full no movement clause.  We were not in play for him.  If he wasn't traded to Vegas in a sign and trade, he would have signed there.

Not arguing with you, but money talks. He was a day away from becoming a UFA. Nothing is possible if you don't try. I'm sure his agent was taking a lot of calls. Toronto would probably prefer getting Rossi over Roy.

[SkolWild73]

Just now, Scalptrash said:

Not arguing with you, but money talks. He was a day away from becoming a UFA. Nothing is possible if you don't try. I'm sure his agent was taking a lot of calls. Toronto would probably prefer getting Rossi over Roy.

I am sure they would.  But considering Marner had full control over where he went, and they settled on Roy, kind of shows Marner rally only wanted to go to Vegas, otherwise Toronto would have gotten a lot more in return from someone else