Article: Would Boston Make the Most Competitive Offer For Rossi?

[Bekki Antonelli]

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[Patrick]

A trade to Boston makes us a worse hockey team. I'm not a fan.

Interesting tidbit... BG paid more for Brazeau than Florida paid for Marchand. I'm beginning to think he is actually a moron.

[Scalptrash]

IMO, Rossi is worth 7x7 in today's dollars and cap space. Boldy's contract is now two years old, but I believe Billy doesn't want to give Rossi the same money because he views Boldy as a superior player. They are very similar players, points wise, after their first two seasons. I don't feel like Rossi is the type of player that will back slide once he gets his money. I see him continuing to improve, but even if he just topped out at 60-70 points per season, that's still a decent value. He needs to play in the top six to get maximum potential though.

If Boston is too cheap to re-sign one of their all time fan favorites, they aren't going to spend to get Rossi either. What would Billy do with more first round draft picks anyway? Either trade them for old vets or draft the best player available so they can rot in Iowa or give them away because they're too short. Yawn.

[hydguy75]

Rossi trade talks have dominated this off-season so far, with every perspective and hypothetical trade imaginable.  GMBG's stance is Rossi is an OK emerging center, but not a great center, and because of his lack of size, he will never be a great center.  MN needs to beef up the attackers, both in terms of physical size and results.  Rossi is an acceptable bottom 6, but only at the right price, and far below Rossi's asking price.  

Pondering this deeper (and changing my stance), I believe Rossi's value reflects more his performance of the 23-24 season (21 G, 19 A, 40 pts) than 24-25 (24 G, 36 A, 60 pts).  Had half of the Wild roster not be out for half of this season, Rossi would not have the ice time, nor be asked to perform as a top 6.  Sure he improved his TOI by 1:30 / game, and his +/- is in the + side finally, with less penalties.  Rossi is evolving to NHL regular play.  But with all of that extra opportunity, he could only notch 3 more goals.  And where the Wild really need help, is during playoffs.  Where his stature disappeared.  

So, if you were GMBG, would you price tag Rossi at $7M, and risk your job doing so?  Would other GM's do the same, to help determine a equitable trade value?  Or would you sign him for far less, or let him walk? 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

26 minutes ago, Patrick said:

BG paid more for Brazeau than Florida paid for Marchand.

Florida gave up a 1st round pick for Marchand, in 2027. How is that less than Guerin traded for Brazeau?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

16 minutes ago, hydguy75 said:

So, if you were GMBG, would you price tag Rossi at $7M, and risk your job doing so?  Would other GM's do the same, to help determine a equitable trade value?  Or would you sign him for far less, or let him walk? 

I'm guessing Guerin has offered $5.5M, but isn't going to consider $7M on his own. If pushed by the market through another team offering $7M, Guerin might match it and trade him the following year if he hasn't developed into everything they want from him.

Guerin will not want to lose him without getting a quality player in return, and not a prospect. For it to be a draft pick, it would need to be someone with a top 10 pick, and probably top 5. Certainly possible that a bridge deal gets worked out and Rossi improves his play and value in a trade return.

It seems much more likely that Guerin would trade him for a very good player, possibly adding assets(draft picks or prospects from the Wild) than to take back just picks.

[mnfaninnc]

23 minutes ago, hydguy75 said:

So, if you were GMBG, would you price tag Rossi at $7M, and risk your job doing so?  Would other GM's do the same, to help determine a equitable trade value?  Or would you sign him for far less, or let him walk?

These are great questions

1) If I'm Shooter, and I just got rejected from giving a guy a 150% raise, I wait. Is the math wrong? Not if you factor in Rossi's performance bonuses. Rossi has the ability to go find an offersheet. That's what Aho did. Carolina matched almost immediately.

2) Getting an offersheet shows what another GM would do. Anything above $7.2m shows a tradeable market value of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick in the same draft. Shooter can also sit and wait for trade offers. Apparently several clubs are interested.

3) $5m/ is a lot higher than a QO. Seriously, this is not the time for Rossi's agent to try and play chicken. A 1 or 2 year $4.5m contract is a high value deal for the team and gets Rossi to arbitration rights. If another team will not offersheet Rossi at $7.2m or higher, Rossi's market price is not $7m. 

Don't go dangling pick 15 and/or Lekkerimaki in my face, that's not going to happen. If you're going to give me draft capital, give me 2026 picks and I'll need a couple of first rounders. Yes other GMs, you will compensate me for delaying my progress, and those picks will not be lottery protected (as they wouldn't be on an offersheet).

The matchup vs. Vegas was going to be a really tough matchup for Rossi. But, as I recall, it was a tough matchup for anyone on line 2. And that's the problem, we didn't have the top 6 players capable of winning that matchup. Rossi needs larger wings. Could Rossi have dominated playing on line 1 with Kaprizov and Boldy? At this point in time, I think Ek is the better center. I wonder how deployment would have been had the Wild drawn Edmonton in the 1st round? Would Rossi have been buried on the 4th line? I don't think so.

Further discussion is Freddy Gaudreau at 184, Vinnie Hinostroza at 183, Gustav Nyquist at 180, Mats Zuccarello at 181 and 37 years old. You can add Jared Spurgeon at 166 to that list. Whether we're talking about Buium or Rossi, the fact is the whole roster is too small. It's not those guys faults and they are the youngest. The better play is to keep Rossi, keep Buium, ask them to bulk up and start shedding the older smaller players so you just have a couple. Start getting top 6 guys who don't get bounced off of pucks and can win physical battles in the corners. And OMG some guys strong enough to drive the net and not play rim the puck while staying on the perimeter.

Rossi plays with tenacity and he shoots the gaps with good timing to still score in the home plate area. He's probably not where our problems lie. So, packaging him for an upgrade might be the only way that you don't keep him in the lineup. 

Also, please note that Bekki is not thinking that Rossi can get us Pasta. She also didn't really look at Boston's roster and looking at it the depth looks thin. Using the player + pick + prospect method on this, what if we bypassed the prospect and took the better 1st round pick of Boston in '26 & took Elias Lindholm off their hands? Lindholm looks like a bad signing for Boston, and we might be buying low on a pretty good player.

[Citizen Strife]

The return hinges on just how much Guerin thinks Yurov is going to take to the NHL.  We've seen Ohgren already (ok, but not second line good yet).  I don't think Yurov should just be given clean runway to 2C just because "Rossi small."

I mean sure, if the Islanders were like, "Take 1OA and Misa, we don't care." I'd understand that.  But I don't know if any team any year gives up a first overall for nothing short of stupid return.

Guerin has to be thinking he only has one year to work with.  He can't wait for anymore drafted people.  The easiest answer to all this would be sign Kap and Rossi, sign Ehlers or Boeser, and then let Ohgren or Yurov try their damndest to take either of those two line 2 spots from them.

No one short of a weird bonafide first liner is worth dumping Rossi and change for.  The clock is ticking, but I'd rather see Rossi do his best and see what we have with him.  You can't tell me he wouldn't succeed with and Ehlers or Boeser over Mojo stapled to his side.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:21 PM by Citizen Strife

[mnfaninnc]

Teams don't seem to be waiting around

Kreider is linked to Anaheim in advanced talks

Necas is linked to Philly who will transform him back to a center

Ehlers is linked to both Chicago and Carolina

At least Rossi shows up on the Rangers' radar. I understand that part of the problem is the cone of silence in Shooter's office. We don't know what phone calls he's made or taken. But, I've got to tell you, I'm a bit nervous. It's seems a lot like Shooter shows up to the party that was last night and not tonight. 

I'm not suggesting impatience on Rossi, but I am suggesting that we start hearing about recruiting other players. I specifically mention Kreider because that seems like a Billy player, mid 30s, coming off a down year, and a very large body and a mean streak. He looks like a clone of himself.

Oh, and I almost forgot, some things appear to be melting down in Buffalo. Apparently the vets in their exit interviews mentioned they were tired of losing. Adams is supposed to be parlaying his prospects into help for the vets. However, there is one guy who may or may not have expressed this and it's Alex Tuch. He's due for a re-signing July 1, and is from Buffalo and wanted to be there. If he's one of the vets disappointed, he may also be on the trading block. All I can say is Come Back Home, Alex!

Tuch would likely not cost Rossi, but would be the kind of wing that would really help him! Adding a duo like Tuch and Kreider would make Rossi a very happy man and a lot of money. 

K'Andre Miller is linked to the Flames and Kings

 

[hydguy75]

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

Guerin has to be thinking he only has one year to work with.  He can't wait for anymore drafted people.  The easiest answer to all this would be sign Kap and Rossi, sign Ehlers or Boeser, and then let Ohgren or Yurov try their damndest to take either of those two line 2 spots from them.

I can support all of this.  

[FredJohnson]

2 hours ago, hydguy75 said:

I can support all of this.  

Billy is gone if Kap isn’t re-signed. Simple as that.

[Patrick]

5 hours ago, hydguy75 said:

Rossi trade talks have dominated this off-season so far, with every perspective and hypothetical trade imaginable.  GMBG's stance is Rossi is an OK emerging center, but not a great center, and because of his lack of size, he will never be a great center.  MN needs to beef up the attackers, both in terms of physical size and results.  Rossi is an acceptable bottom 6, but only at the right price, and far below Rossi's asking price.  

Pondering this deeper (and changing my stance), I believe Rossi's value reflects more his performance of the 23-24 season (21 G, 19 A, 40 pts) than 24-25 (24 G, 36 A, 60 pts).  Had half of the Wild roster not be out for half of this season, Rossi would not have the ice time, nor be asked to perform as a top 6.  Sure he improved his TOI by 1:30 / game, and his +/- is in the + side finally, with less penalties.  Rossi is evolving to NHL regular play.  But with all of that extra opportunity, he could only notch 3 more goals.  And where the Wild really need help, is during playoffs.  Where his stature disappeared.  

So, if you were GMBG, would you price tag Rossi at $7M, and risk your job doing so?  Would other GM's do the same, to help determine a equitable trade value?  Or would you sign him for far less, or let him walk? 

So your argument is that because Rossi played better when all of the Wilds best players were injured he is worth less?  Yeah that sounds like BG type of thinking!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂

Also,  Rossi got 10% more ice time this year to last and yet produced 50% more points. That is a HUGE increase in production.

You can't blame him for the post season.  They didn't let him play.

[Patrick]

5 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Florida gave up a 1st round pick for Marchand, in 2027. How is that less than Guerin traded for Brazeau?

It turned into a first when they made the conference finals. It was a 2nd up until then.

[1Brotherbill]

I still don't understand where the idea that the Wild need another goalie comes into play in everyone of these articles.  Goalies are the Wild's least area of concern.  Defense is next, because they could get a bit bigger and more offensive in the D core.  That might change with Buium and Jiricek.  

So, the Rossi bargaining chip comes down to what players the Wild could get in return.  Everyone screams center, but is it really needed.  Since everything is pointing to Yurov being slotted as a center, that means they would have Ek, Yurov, Hartman, Gaudreau at center.  Not fantastic but serviceable.  Lets be honest nobody in the league is going to trade a center that is as skilled as Marco but is six inches taller and heavier.  So we can just forget that a trade upgrade is happening with Marco.  We can also forget the wheel barrow of picks that someone is going to trade Minnesota for Marco.  Though it is a possibility that Minnesota gets compensation picks for Marco, which at a minimum would be a 1st and a 3rd or a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.  Pretty sure BG is not looking for picks for Marco.  If it did come to that they would instantly be traded for other assets.  

The people who say Marco isn't a 7 million player are wrong.  He might not have been that in the past but the new financials in the league say his level of play is going to be a 7 million a year player.  Especially if you consider that if he signs a seven year deal at year 3 his 7 million will be considered valuable.  You can't expect the salary cap to go up and the contract values not to increase as well.  

 

[Mateo3xm]

6 hours ago, hydguy75 said:

Had half of the Wild roster not be out for half of this season, Rossi would not have the ice time, nor be asked to perform as a top 6. 

What on earth are you talking about? He was playing on the top line with Kaprizov before he got hurt. Kap was leading the league in points during that time?..Did you forget that?

[hydguy75]

1 hour ago, Patrick said:

Also,  Rossi got 10% more ice time this year to last and yet produced 50% more points. That is a HUGE increase in production.

So if Rossi is worth all of that, where are all of the bona fide offers?  Rossi got 3 more goals and nearly doubled the assists than the previous year.  We need more goals, not assists.  And during the playoffs, sure he scored 2 G and 1 A, but was even at +/-.  If Rossi is the leader you think he is, he would have Dominated that 4th line.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, Patrick said:

It turned into a first when they made the conference finals. It was a 2nd up until then.

Correct, but that's still a better asset than Khusnutdinov and a 6th round pick--I'd bet Boston wasn't doubting Florida's chances of making the conference finals when they made that deal. Both of those assets from the Wild were not expected to see much NHL ice for them in the future. Chances are decent that the 1st round pick will eventually get ice time for Boston.

[B1GKappa97]

What exactly are we getting back from Boston? I'm not sure they make much sense tbh. 

There are more teams with far more interesting potential trade chips to make up for losing Rossi than what Boston can offer us. 

I mean maybe if they put Khusnutdinov and Lauko on the table........

[Mateo3xm]

10 hours ago, hydguy75 said:

So if Rossi is worth all of that, where are all of the bona fide offers?  Rossi got 3 more goals and nearly doubled the assists than the previous year.  We need more goals, not assists.  And during the playoffs, sure he scored 2 G and 1 A, but was even at +/-.  If Rossi is the leader you think he is, he would have Dominated that 4th line.

He was given 11 min of toi per game and still got 3pts in 6 games. JEE literally had the same amount of points and played almost twice the amount of minutes. Rossi has only played two nhl season and he was still second on the team in points this year..

how are you going to dominate with grinders and fourth liners??

[Scalptrash]

12 hours ago, Patrick said:

So your argument is that because Rossi played better when all of the Wilds best players were injured he is worth less?  Yeah that sounds like BG type of thinking!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂

Also,  Rossi got 10% more ice time this year to last and yet produced 50% more points. That is a HUGE increase in production.

You can't blame him for the post season.  They didn't let him play.

He also had more pressure to produce and less talent to play with when the top players were injured. Not only did he handle it well, he excelled. He needs to be top six with good talent around him and he will perform at a high level.

I said this before, no other team in the NHL would bury their 2nd leading regular season scorer on the fourth line in the playoffs (unless they were injured). Everyone is so focused on size or lack thereof. There are many players on the Wild that are the same size or smaller than Rossi. Why wasn't Zuccy demoted for his size? Rossi outperformed him. Zuccy might be to blame for Rossi's drop in production. It started around the time Zuccy told him that he needs to pass more. Jealous much, old man?

Edited 9 hours ago by Scalptrash

[RazWild]

18 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

These are great questions

1) If I'm Shooter, and I just got rejected from giving a guy a 150% raise, I wait. Is the math wrong? Not if you factor in Rossi's performance bonuses. Rossi has the ability to go find an offersheet. That's what Aho did. Carolina matched almost immediately.

2) Getting an offersheet shows what another GM would do. Anything above $7.2m shows a tradeable market value of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick in the same draft. Shooter can also sit and wait for trade offers. Apparently several clubs are interested.

3) $5m/ is a lot higher than a QO. Seriously, this is not the time for Rossi's agent to try and play chicken. A 1 or 2 year $4.5m contract is a high value deal for the team and gets Rossi to arbitration rights. If another team will not offersheet Rossi at $7.2m or higher, Rossi's market price is not $7m. 

Don't go dangling pick 15 and/or Lekkerimaki in my face, that's not going to happen. If you're going to give me draft capital, give me 2026 picks and I'll need a couple of first rounders. Yes other GMs, you will compensate me for delaying my progress, and those picks will not be lottery protected (as they wouldn't be on an offersheet).

Sorry, MnFann. This is just flat out wrong. I'm starting to suspect that you and the others here don't seem to know or understand how offersheets work. Or not very well, at least. I've seen multiple comments here so far that have either gotten the total offersheet amount incorrect, or how they are calculated, like at all.

Saying that Rossi isn't worth a market rate of $7M if a GM won't offersheet him at that amount is stunningly asinine.

Let's explain why.

1) Standard contracts and offersheet contracts are two very different types of contracts. And are NOT created equal.

Standard contracts are capped out at either a 7 year term for UFA's, or an 8 year term for players that team currently hold rights to.

Offersheet contracts, on the other hand, are capped at a MAXIMUM of a 5 year term. If the offered contract is for longer, say a $7Mx7 for example. The AAV is actually higher, because the contract is still capped at 5 years in calculations.

2) A player's market rate is determined by their AAV  (Average Annual Value) over the course of the contract. Simply put, the total amount of the contract value divided by the term length.

A standard $7Mx7 contract, which is Rossi's current asking price, is a total contract value of $49M divided over a 7 year term to give a AAV of $7M per year.

Conversely, Offersheets work differently. They aren't calculated by AAV. They are ALWAYS calculated by total contract value divided by 5 year term, regardless of the contract offered.

What this means, is that a $7Mx7 offersheet, while the same on the surface. Is in actuality. $49M divided by a 5 year term.

A $9.8Mx5 contract in all but name.

No GM in their right mind is offering that to Rossi.

In order to get a ACTUAL AAV of $7.2M on a offersheet. The total contract value would would have to be $36M divided by 5 years. Which is a lot less than Rossi's $49M asking price.

[Patrick]

13 hours ago, hydguy75 said:

So if Rossi is worth all of that, where are all of the bona fide offers?  Rossi got 3 more goals and nearly doubled the assists than the previous year.  We need more goals, not assists.  And during the playoffs, sure he scored 2 G and 1 A, but was even at +/-.  If Rossi is the leader you think he is, he would have Dominated that 4th line.

There is so much ignorance in this comment I don't even know where to start.

1) There are no offers because offers CAN'T be made until after June 28th.  🤦‍♂️

2) You cant get an assist unless a goal is scored so by increasing assists you are in fact increasing goals scored....

3) Teams don't match up 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th line.  So Rossi playing 4th has no reflection on who he is playing against. Is he supposed to "dominate" his teammates?

Lastly,  Rossi produced points at nearly the same rate as Kaprizov in the playoffs and at a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rate than Boldy....

[Patrick]

13 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Correct, but that's still a better asset than Khusnutdinov and a 6th round pick--I'd bet Boston wasn't doubting Florida's chances of making the conference finals when they made that deal. Both of those assets from the Wild were not expected to see much NHL ice for them in the future. Chances are decent that the 1st round pick will eventually get ice time for Boston.

The Wilds pick will be approx 16 places after Florida's AND we gave up a player. Its a pretty embarrassing trade by the Wild. (and a good one for Florida)

[mnfaninnc]

39 minutes ago, RazWild said:

Offersheet contracts, on the other hand, are capped at a MAXIMUM of a 5 year term. If the offered contract is for longer, say a $7Mx7 for example. The AAV is actually higher, because the contract is still capped at 5 years in calculations

You are correct, I did not know this. So, if a contract is for 7 years $49m, they calculate the salary cap number as 5/49? What happens the next 2 years then?

42 minutes ago, RazWild said:

A $9.8Mx5 contract in all but name.

No GM in their right mind is offering that to Rossi.

In order to get a ACTUAL AAV of $7.2M on a offersheet. The total contract value would would have to be $36M divided by 5 years. Which is a lot less than Rossi's $49M asking price.

I assume that this cap number is the same for both teams, not different if you match it. So, does that mean that an offersheet that comes in likely will be a 5 year offer? So, 5 years <$7.2m would likely be matched, anything greater would be a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?

So, Raz, outside of the 5 year cap, am I missing anything else? 

48 minutes ago, RazWild said:

Saying that Rossi isn't worth a market rate of $7M if a GM won't offersheet him at that amount is stunningly asinine.

I'm not seeing the point here. I'm not talking about $7m x 7 here, I'm simply talking about a $7m without the term. If a GM doesn't come up with an offersheet above the $7.2m threshold my point is that it will be matched, maybe at $7m x 5 instead of 7. We already have heard the rumor that the Flyers' GM was not going into the $7m cap number either.

Thanks for the correction.

[mnfaninnc]

7 minutes ago, Patrick said:

1) There are no offers because offers CAN'T be made until after June 28th.  🤦‍♂️

I think Hydguy was referring to trade offers, not offersheets.