Article: The Wild Might Still Be Playing With One Hand Behind Their Back Next Year

[Tom Schreier]

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[Citizen Strife]

Any article that paints Addison in any sort of positive light is an immediate,"WTF" from me

[Citizen Strife]

Getting the absurdity of playing Beckman and Addison out of the way., the point of the article was "tank."

That is fine in theory, but would that have sit well with Kap?  I don't really know.  Montreal and Ottawa got bounced in the same round as the Wild with their homegrown "talent.". The "Yzerplan" has yet to launch in Detroit.  Buffalo...well, uh.  We don't need to go there.

Also, it took Edmonton 20 years to get their two rebuilds to work cause Hall/RNH/Yakupov wasn't it.  There are probably as many examples of failed tanks as good ones.

 

 

[0 Stanley Cups]

Nuge was 1st overall for EDM

[FredJohnson]

2023: Charlie Stramel (21th) is 6-foot-3, 215 lbs.

He’s heavy enough to play for Billy.

[MrCheatachu]

Last offseason the Nashville Predators made a huge splash in signing  Steven Stamkos ($8Mx4), Jonathan Marchessault ($5.5Mx5) and Brady Skjei ($7x7) in free agency.

The Nashville predators finished second to last in the central last season, only ahead of the Blackhawks.

Signing high dollar free agents isn't going to guarantee success if they dont fit into what you're trying to build.

It'll be interesting to see what SillyG does with the new found cap freedom, but spending like a drunken sailor on pay-day isn't going to guarantee success.

[mnhockeyfan03]

Billy needs to think outside the box with big trades to make the team better.  Only free agents to go after are Ehlers and Bennett but at the right price and I doubt Bennett leaves Florida 

[Pewterschmidt]

they're fighting with one hand tied between their back because of these cap restraints. 

“We don't apologize for it. We're fine with it."

This is bill's fatal flaw.  it's ok for him to think he can have it both ways (tell players there's no excuses, then make it an excuse OUT LOUD to a reporter), but he's too dense to understand that he undermines all his One Team United Grit dogma when he whines to reporters out loud.

Edited yesterday at 05:03 PM by Pewterschmidt

[SkolWild73]

These are 3 examples of teams that tanked or were bad enough to get the top picks in the draft  and did well, and maybe it would have worked out for us.  But Edmonton and Pittsburgh were able to draft McDavid and Crosby, who will both go down as possibly top 5 players of all time.  So many other teams have had high draft picks and didn’t help them because there were not generational talents at the top of the draft.  Were there any McDavids or Crosbys in the last 5 drafts?  

[Dean]

Great article. Spot on Getting bounced year after year in 1 st round isn’t worth the half ass draft picks Billy got. A bunch of dented cans that can’t win a round . Undersized weak gutless golfers is Judds claim to fame.  What prospects does Billy have coming that can play the hard playoff style  hockey ? None . Hell he thinks his 9 th overall is soft yet he drafted him. We would be in a better place if we had sold at the trade deadline an accumulated  better assets. Instead of giving the worst analytical player another year to prove in playoffs he doesn’t deserve to be on this team Fred g .  They weren’t going in the playoffs to give experience to their youth. They instead give Billy’s drinking/ golf buddies a chance to make fools of themselves and prove weak , soft and lazy doesn’t win sh-t 

   How can anyone take Billy seriously when Fred and Jo Jo  are still on roster after buyouts  do you watch playoff hockey and see size skill and physicality is needed to win rounds. ?  Is a Fred g line going to matchup to anyone? Hell no. Is lazy Jo Jo going to score you bigs goals in playoffs. Hell no . What are Fred and Jo Jo going to do.? Take roster spots an opportunity from others who actually want to try hard and win . 
  The Billy lovers need to explain how putting Rossi on 4 th line was good. This idea he was defensively lacking when Fred g was a flipping speed bump the entire playoffs is a joke . Then the fact putting him on 4 th line just made a bridge deal impossible because Rossi can’t trust management anymore, is somehow good. That’s crazy. Billy’s a fraud. Judd drafts small statured dented cans to compete against men . Hynes is a proven loser and Iowa can’t win anything. But that’s ok to the wild. It’s not about winning they say it’s about developing.  Yeah lambos fits that idea. 
  The wild are a joke and so are all the excuses. This was supposed to be a big offseason yet it’s going to turn out to be Billy’s incompetence on full display with no excuses to fall back on. 

[punch_cut]

Of course Dean likes this article. He is a dipshit just like the author is.

[Burnt Toast]

Kaprizov is essentially a first overall talent. The team will be built around him. The play now is value contract additions. Wild management has done a fantastic job of locking up value long term contracts. The upcoming ELC contracts with top rated prospects have a lot of potential as well. It’s not talked about a lot but Gus Bus is a big reason for the Wild’s success. Getting him at a decent AAV should be a priority. 

[FredJohnson]

9 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

 Were there any McDavids or Crosbys in the last 5 drafts?  

[PNW Wild]

12 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

There are probably as many examples of failed tanks as good ones.

Easily more examples of failed tanks... Buffalo is a perennial tank. Anaheim has been at it awhile now, etc.

[Mateo3xm]

22 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Getting the absurdity of playing Beckman and Addison out of the way., the point of the article was "tank."

That is fine in theory, but would that have sit well with Kap?  I don't really know.  Montreal and Ottawa got bounced in the same round as the Wild with their homegrown "talent.". The "Yzerplan" has yet to launch in Detroit.  Buffalo...well, uh.  We don't need to go there.

Also, it took Edmonton 20 years to get their two rebuilds to work cause Hall/RNH/Yakupov wasn't it.  There are probably as many examples of failed tanks as good ones.

 

 

However, virtually every single Stanley Cup winning team in the last 20 years has done a tank where they got at least one top 5 pick. Meaning you don’t win a Cup without getting a player that was most likely picked in the top 5. I agree with some of what this article says, it was just stated in an odd way. The problem is this tank doesn’t line up with Kaprizovs age. They would be a lot better off in the future if they used the cap hell era to get some top 5 picks if possible. They should have planned a rebuild years before they knew he was coming. There’s planning that needs to be done when building a cup team and Mn definitely didn’t have any type of well thought out plan, despite them saying so.

[Mateo3xm]

10 hours ago, PNW Wild said:

Easily more examples of failed tanks... Buffalo is a perennial tank. Anaheim has been at it awhile now, etc.

That’s because only one team can win a Cup. Every team that won a Cup lately has done some form of a rebuild/tank. Buffalo is an atrociously run team with not patience or intelligence. The same thing was said about the Oilers. They basically tanked until they got generational players. Anaheim has won a Cup and they are building a scary team of young and extremely talented players. 

[mnfaninnc]

18 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

It’s not talked about a lot but Gus Bus is a big reason for the Wild’s success.

I would say he's merely been competent behind a very good defense. He's not more than a $5m goalie, and I think any of the $5m goalie could perform just as well with this defense. A hot Goose, though, is very tough to beat. 

[mnfaninnc]

22 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

Were there any McDavids or Crosbys in the last 5 drafts?  

Wait a second, wasn't Lafreniere billed this way? Bedard? I'm with you on your point, they haven't really helped their team like a generational talent should have. 

Teams have 23 players on them. 1 player doesn't make a great team. But, I think Lafreniere is not a bright lights, big city guy. I think if we got him, he may blossom here. 

I know I'm jumping to baseball, but there have been a lot of big signings by the Yankees over the years from guys who were really good, and just couldn't handle the constant scrutiny and impatience from the fans. I believe Kaprizov to like not being in the big city also. For the Yankees, they had to trade these guys out to smaller markets where the guys usually rebounded to be at least solid. 

It is rumored Drury is looking for someone to take that contract, and for Kreider. Kreider is a Shooter type of player and we've got cap space. These would be 2 great gets, I think, and if you are parting with Rossi for that, I would like the exchange. 

 

 

[RedLake]

The Mild have been tanked for 25 years and counting, except for the fluke 2003 conference final run which they got swept by Anaheimer. Kaprizov hasn't had an assistant on his his line yet in Minnesota. Go get him a 1c and a tough guy winger. Boldy, Yurov and a FA can round out a second line. Hartman, Oghren, Jamie Benn third line. Folingo and 2 ahlers round out the 4th line. Trade Spurgeon, Faber, Brodin and let Buuim and Jiricek play. Big rumors of a 3 player trade with the NYR sending Rossi, Brodin, Oghren, Heidt in exchange for some big names.

[mnfaninnc]

Tom has doubled down on his tank theory and has presented compelling evidence. Yet, there are 2 sides to every story, and Tom has completely omitted the teams that have failed with this method. Part of the issue is the draft lottery which does not guarantee a 1st overall and as we've seen over the last few seasons, some franchises just seem to get lucky....like huge market teams or original 6 teams. Is it luck or something else? My gut says something else. 

Do they still drag up some guy from a CPA firm to oversee the ping pong balls as if they're audited? We've all seen how bad Arthur Andersen got played in scandals so there is that precedence. 

Pittsburgh got 3 top picks in which they built there team. Generational talents in Crosby, Fleury, and an elite player in Malkin all surrounded the '04 lockout. A perfect storm came together for them. They whiffed mostly in the 2nd round but picked up Letang in the 3rd and Goligoski in the late 2nd which was a traded pick. 

Tom has also talked about Chicago and picking up Toews and Kane back to back and got Keith and Seabrook in later parts of the draft as being their hit. However, it was the Marian Hossa signing that propelled them to a contender and then a champion. Picking up the Breadman was also helpful.

I do not agree with Tom on the tank theory because we've got glaring downsides. Pittsburgh didn't have to weight too long before hoisting the cup again. However, Chicago went through decades of futility before they hit on their guys. Edmonton is another example of being a doormat for a long time before hitting on McDavid and Draisaitl, and even then, it took them getting to be $10m players before they started doing anything in the playoffs. Buffalo has had 14 years of extreme pain. Detroit has had several years of being down. Ottawa, Utah/Arizona, Anaheim have had a tough go at it, and weren't able to secure those generational guys. 

I think the real answer is the draft, but not the top guys. Those guys are nice, but that's not really the answer. For instance. Edmonton had a great run of top 5 picks and whiffed in the rest of the draft. The key thing is finding 3 drafts in close proximity where you get 3 key contributors in 2/3 years. This is where you can build a core of players of similar age. That group is the core group and will grow together. I think Guerin had projected to do this very thing with the '20-22 drafts, and may now be moving on from the '20 draft. We've got leadership guys in place from the '15 draft in Ek and Kaprizov. Support from the '19 draft in Boldy, but the team's got to be built around the guys from '20-22. This is how you build dynasties. 

And, to do this takes tremendous luck. Luck with your 1sts, and luck on the bottom. Much of the '20 draft has been traded out. '21 includes The Wall and Lambos, '22 includes Jiricek (trade), OgZ, and Yurov. Those are just the 1st rounders. For it to work, some mid to late rounders need to blossom. 

In '21 Bankier could be one of those pieces. In '22 we've got Haight, Lorenz, Milne and Spacek who we could hope for. Do we go after more in the '20 draft or look towards '23? Stramel, Kumpulainen and Heidt highlight the '23 draft. 

Now, these players don't have to be stars, they just need to be solid contributors. Even if they make up the bottom 6, as long as they are in the lineup most nights, that's a solid contributor. 

I did not look at traded people into the organization while doing this, and this could have an effect. Fletcher kind of tried to do this but then pivoted to "have to make the playoffs." He banked on Nino, Granny, Coyle, and Zucker. J. Larsson and Bulmer were flame outs, Bulmer likely due to injuries. In '08, we picked up Scandella and Spurgeon, but what if we'd have taken John Carlson instead of Tyler Cuma? Cuma had injuries and never panned out. Then in '09 he immediately traded out Nick Leddy. 

Fletcher then tried to do it with '11 when he took Brodin and Phillips. He also gained Seeler who would have been a solid contributor. He whiffed on the other picks. Yet, what could have been if instead of Phillips he took Rakell or Saad? Those 2 pick whiffs could have seriously changed the franchise if adding Rakell and Carlson. 

Again, no promises if you try to do this. Trading out Leddy probably wasn't the best idea. Fletcher also had a chance for this in the '12 draft where he took Dumba and then whiffed the rest of the draft. 

So, Guerin has not been trading their top picks/prospects. Instead he has been, likely, overcooking them in development. But he has resisted, to this point, of trading out drafted players in this range. 

Now we need to get these guys developed and up with the big club. Believe in this core and let's see where they can take us. The Wild have not succumbed to the choice to tank, instead they have maintained a winning culture even though it isn't elite. We, as fans, have not had to suffer great pain watching a losing club night after night. They've been competitive. Would you rather be a Buffalo fan at this moment or a Wild fan? Now, the task is to trim off the players who won't be here for Cup runs and to replace them with this core. This is the way you build a team. This is the way. Tom's way is based in extreme luck and a video game type of mentality. Don't give into the Tom method.

[greg]

Great comments from all of you.  I was going to say that as  lifetime North Stars and Wild fan I am frustrated by GMs that come here and can't build a perennial cup contender in The State of Hockey.  Nevermind