Article: The Minnesota Wild Devalued Their Best Trade Asset

[Pewterschmidt]

55 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

If the genius that is Bill Guerin knew that Faber was going to be the Faber we have now, why did he draft Ryan O'Rourke, a defenseman and a fixture in the Iowa lineup, with the 39th overall pick in the 2020 draft and let Faber slide down to the Kings at #45?

Great point!  And going forward we can stop giving Guerin/Brackett credit for Faber.  

[Pewterschmidt]

57 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Marat Khusnutinov with the 37th pick. Marat is gone for a cup of coffee

+ Lauko + 5th for a telephone pole named Brazz who we will likely not re-sign.  That's a shit ton of draft capital vaporized.

[Pewterschmidt]

50 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

Guerin didn't create that cap-hell. Fletcher did. Guerin just had to make the most of it because he was the GM in charge at the end of the Parise/Suter contracts.

Guerin's smooth-move here was turning the buyouts into an additional 5 year contract extension on the end of his first five year plan.  We'll see if he's got Leo hoodwinked into bill's 10 year plan, over the next couple seasons.

[Pewterschmidt]

53 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

And despite having limited leverage, it looks like he knocked that assignment out of the park if you want to actually be objective about it.

Limping into the playoffs in a league where over half the league makes it, and then getting rolled in the first round is not "knocking it out of the park".  Remember that playoff futility stat the Wild have over last ten years.  Five of those years are bill's.

[ArizonaWildFan]

1 hour ago, B1GKappa97 said:

I just think we're not giving him enough credit for the work he did in bolstering the roster for the long-term with the Fiala situation, or just chalking it up to luck and acting like the GM didn't recognize that was a good deal when he made it.

Final point for me on this: in 2021 Fiala signed a $5.1M/1YR bridge deal with the Wild as an RFA. I don't know what his status at the end of that contract was (UFA or RFA). If he would have been an RFA and offer sheeted for what he signed for with the Kings ($7.875M) the compensation to the Wild would have been a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick from the Kings.

Billy got a 1st round pick and Faber, who was previously a second round pick that the Wild let slide in favor of Ryan O'Rourke. In theory, Billy sold low and let the Kings keep their 3rd rounder.

He seems to take Jim Rutherford's advice to heart to a certain extent, never try to win a trade. But he seems to ignore the rest of the advice about making fair trades. The league established fair compensation and teams abide by it. According to the league and fair compensation, Billy left a pick on the table. Very nice, but nice guys finish last in situations like this.

[WildNotMild]

1 hour ago, B1GKappa97 said:

Right it would TOTALLY be better to have a 29 year old Kevin Fiala right now, who still hasn't made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs either, instead of a 23-year old top-pair RHD who should be a staple in the lineup for the next decade... 

Okay man.. whatever you say... 

Read the post a couple higher up.  Billy had ZERO idea of what Faber was.  The trade looks good now, BUT the Wild are still chasing offense.  AND, the Wild are about ready to trade its third leading scorer who is a Center.  Lots of people on this platform are suggesting trading Faber for a top 6 forward.

For real, okay man … whatever YOU say.

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Not intending to argue with you, B1GKappa97, but in 2020 when Faber was drafted by the Kings six picks after the Wild selected Ryan O'Rourke, and in 2022 when the Kings included Faber as part of the Fiala trade, no one knew what Faber would become. You make it sound like BG is a genius because we ended up with Faber and that is just not the case.

In fairness, in 2020 when we drafted, Faber had not played a game yet at the U.  By the time the trade was made he had played two years there.  A little easier to evaluate what he might be at that point.

[Wildfan2k]

“OK, so because of the cap Hell he created, Guerin couldn't afford to sign Fiala; it wasn't a choice that BG made on his own. He had to get rid of Kevin out of necessity.”

We should have traded Dumba and kept Fiala. Same salary, needed scoring, and Dumba was a FA anyway. 
 

The math to find cap space for Rossi isn’t that difficult. I’m trade the old assets, find a way, dump useless salary. Keep Rossi!!

[Burnt Toast]

4 hours ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

OK, so because of the cap Hell he created, Guerin

I don’t really have a dog in the BG opinion poll. Time will tell if he knows what he’s doing. I guess this is the last time I will comment on the cap stuff. It was created the day the Wild signed two highly paid players to 13 year contracts. At one point those were rated by National Hockey League pundits as the two worst contracts in the entire league, while the players were still on the team. If those players had been retained that money would still not be available. I’m not even going into the cap recapture that would have occurred the moment ZP retired. As for the notion that now that the cap stuff is mostly gone and the Wild are going to magically become a contender…. That makes no sense. 31 other teams already have the same $ as we will have. The Wild are going to have to build a contender one piece at a time. 

[ArizonaWildFan]

Take a look at who the UFA's and RFA's will be at the end of the 2025-2026 season and tell me that there aren't some juicy nuggets that will be available at the trade deadline. Sign Kaprizov to his extension and Rossi to a new contract on July 1st; don't sign any of the organization's UFA's or RFA's (except Rossi); try to deal Trenin and his $3.5M cap hit; get Wallstedt, Yurov, Ohgren, Buium, Jiricek, et al through camp and on the opening night 23 man roster; and have $8M - $10M available at the trade deadline. Who knows, but if a team like the Rangers are not contenders in March maybe you could see Panarin centering Kaprizov and some other lucky schmuck as a rental and ride them to a Cup? See, this GM stuff isn't that complicated or difficult.

[mnhockeyfan03]

Trade Faber, Ohgren, and Rossi for a true 1C.  This franchise has been missing that since its existence.  If we do that consider we traded Fiala (Faber abd Ohgren) for a true 1C.  We are strong a D and need scoring forwards.  This is Billy’s true way to getting out of the doghouse and building a contender.  I know people like Faber but with his salary and lack of offense we cannot be contenders.  Be Bold bill and take a risk 

[MacGyver]

16 hours ago, WildNotMild said:

Agree with most of what you said, except Billy could have kept Fiala instead of another player.  There were a lot of fans wanting to trade Dumba instead of trading Fiala.  That move alone might have been enough money to keep Fiala.  If not, one less country club contract with an over the hill vet or at least not overpaying for one of his country club buddies would have definitely been enough.  Those decisions definitely need to be owned by Billy.

I was one of those who wanted to keep Fiala and move Dumba. Billy got very defensive when the media pressed him on why he wouldn't move Dumba and keep Fiala. Dumba costs us keeping Alex Tuch who we are dreaming about how we can somehow get back and he costs us keeping Fiala. That being said by the time Fiala was actually traded it was clear Fiala wanted out as fast as Billy could slam the door in his ass. Billy is good at breaking relationships. He is doing the same thing with Rossi now. The Kings never would have sent Faber here if they knew what he was going to be. Billy had no clue either. Stroke of luck. 

Same with Gus. Gus was a complete unknown when Billy sent Talbot there in return for him. Billy would have taken a used skate sharpener if that's what Ottawa offered. After the St. Louis playoff debacle Talbot wanted out the door just like Fiala. See the theme? When you are the gum stuck on Billy's shoe you want out as bad as he wants you out. Rossi is now that piece of gum and every other GM in the league knows it.   

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

After the St. Louis playoff debacle Talbot wanted out the door just like Fiala. See the theme?

I think bill has an uphill battle attracting free agents to MN to begin with (taxes, winter, playoff history,etc) and that explains why he over pays and gives NMC’s to bubble NHL’rs.  bill inability to treat some players with respect in the public ain’t helping.  Again if he’ll do this in public what kind of next level A-hole is he in private.  My way or the highway works if you’re winning.  Year 6 bill.  To to deliver some post season winning because we’re becoming a meme in the league. 

[Beast]

People around the league know what Rossi is.  His value isn’t going to change significantly based on where Geurin and Hynes decide to slot him in the lineup.  The guys running these teams aren’t casual fans.  They have years of data on Rossi.  They can talk to former coaches on the Wild’s staff.  He’s played internationally.  There’s nothing to hide here.  Rossi clearly isn’t viewed much differently than he is by Guerin if they can’t even get a late 1st rounder for him.

The concerning thing to me is their judgment.  No matter what they think of Rossi, he was one of their most effective offensive players.  Slotting him in for 4th line minutes behind Hartman and Gaudreau is just a dumb decision.  Not so much for his trade value, but giving the team the best chance to win.

I’m not confident they won’t continue to make dumb moves going forward no matter how the Rossi trade situation shakes out.

[ArizonaWildFan]

How many true 1C's are there in the NHL? There are 32 teams but there are not 32 true 1C's. Maybe 10-15 tops? And the teams that have one value them and hold onto them dearly with few exceptions. In the past couple seasons the Wild have called Ek, Rossi, Hartman and even Sam Steel their 1C. Whoever is playing with Kaprizov is the 1C by default and not because they are a true 1C.

IMO the Wild will have to develop a true 1C rather than waiting for one to come knocking on the door. The Wild have a very good supporting cast to build a true 1C with. Kaprizov, Boldy and Zuccarello have done it in the past to a certain extent along with a solid D core to help out on the other end.

It's all about system, structure, style of play and most importantly patience. Can the three S's just mentioned make an individual player successful and achieve the desired outcome? I say yes, and we only have to look back to the previous regular season and Alex Ovechkin.

A primary objective of the Caps last season was to see Ovi break Gretzky's goal scoring record. How do you do that with a 39 year old? Especially when he lost 17 games to injury? He ended up scoring 44G/29A/73P in 65 games with 14G/8A/22P coming on the PP on 237 shots with just under 18 minutes average TOI. Third in the entire NHL in goals scored at age 39 in only 65 games. Incredible!

The Great Eight is a generational talent but he is well past his prime. The system, structure and style that the Caps employed, coupled with Ovechkin's remaining skills and high hockey IQ gained through years of experience, allowed their objective to be achieved. It also got them into the playoffs and past the first round. A win-win situation.

The Wild could take Yurov and anoint him their 1C on Day 1. They commit to developing him patiently and install systems, structures and styles that fit him along with his teammates. That's how the Wild will get their first true 1C.

Billy won't do it and he won't let Hynes do it. He believes in a style of play and a type of player and pigeon holes and handcuffs the organization with those realistically unattainable beliefs. And the organization's results under his dictatorship have proven that fatal flaw.

[ArizonaWildFan]

How many true 1C's are there in the NHL? There are 32 teams but there are not 32 true 1C's. Maybe 10-15 tops? And the teams that have one value them and hold onto them dearly with few exceptions. In the past couple seasons the Wild have called Ek, Rossi, Hartman and even Sam Steel their 1C. Whoever is playing with Kaprizov is the 1C by default and not because they are a true 1C.

IMO the Wild will have to develop a true 1C rather than waiting for one to come knocking on the door. The Wild have a very good supporting cast to build a true 1C with. Kaprizov, Boldy and Zuccarello have done it in the past to a certain extent along with a solid D core to help out on the other end.

It's all about system, structure, style of play and most importantly patience. Can the three S's just mentioned make an individual player successful and achieve the desired outcome? I say yes, and we only have to look back to the previous regular season and Alex Ovechkin.

A primary objective of the Caps last season was to see Ovi break Gretzky's goal scoring record. How do you do that with a 39 year old? Especially when he lost 17 games to injury? He ended up scoring 44G/29A/73P in 65 games with 14G/8A/22P coming on the PP on 237 shots with just under 18 minutes average TOI. Third in the entire NHL in goals scored at age 39 in only 65 games. Incredible!

The Great Eight is a generational talent but he is well past his prime. The system, structure and style that the Caps employed, coupled with Ovechkin's remaining skills and high hockey IQ gained through years of experience, allowed their objective to be achieved. It also got them into the playoffs and past the first round. A win-win situation.

The Wild could take Yurov and anoint him their 1C on Day 1. They commit to developing him patiently and install systems, structures and styles that fit him along with his teammates. That's how the Wild will get their first true 1C.

Billy won't do it and he won't let Hynes do it. He believes in a style of play and a type of player and pigeon holes and handcuffs the organization with those realistically unattainable beliefs. And the organization's results under his dictatorship have proven that fatal flaw.

[ArizonaWildFan]

How many true 1C's are there in the NHL? There are 32 teams but there are not 32 true 1C's. Maybe 10-15 tops? And the teams that have one value them and hold onto them dearly with few exceptions. In the past couple seasons the Wild have called Ek, Rossi, Hartman and even Sam Steel their 1C. Whoever is playing with Kaprizov is the 1C by default and not because they are a true 1C.

IMO the Wild will have to develop a true 1C rather than waiting for one to come knocking on the door. The Wild have a very good supporting cast to build a true 1C with. Kaprizov, Boldy and Zuccarello have done it in the past to a certain extent along with a solid D core to help out on the other end.

It's all about system, structure, style of play and most importantly patience. Can the three S's just mentioned make an individual player successful and achieve the desired outcome? I say yes, and we only have to look back to the previous regular season and Alex Ovechkin.

A primary objective of the Caps last season was to see Ovi break Gretzky's goal scoring record. How do you do that with a 39 year old? Especially when he lost 17 games to injury? He ended up scoring 44G/29A/73P in 65 games with 14G/8A/22P coming on the PP on 237 shots with just under 18 minutes average TOI. Third in the entire NHL in goals scored at age 39 in only 65 games. Incredible!

The Great Eight is a generational talent but he is well past his prime. The system, structure and style that the Caps employed, coupled with Ovechkin's remaining skills and high hockey IQ gained through years of experience, allowed their objective to be achieved. It also got them into the playoffs and past the first round. A win-win situation.

The Wild could take Yurov and anoint him their 1C on Day 1. They commit to developing him patiently and install systems, structures and styles that fit him along with his teammates. That's how the Wild will get their first true 1C.

Billy won't do it and he won't let Hynes do it. He believes in a style of play and a type of player and pigeon holes and handcuffs the organization with those realistically unattainable beliefs. And the organization's results under his dictatorship have proven that fatal flaw.

[ArizonaWildFan]

How many true 1C's are there in the NHL? There are 32 teams but there are not 32 true 1C's. Maybe 10-15 tops? And the teams that have one value them and hold onto them dearly with few exceptions. In the past couple seasons the Wild have called Ek, Rossi, Hartman and even Sam Steel their 1C. Whoever is playing with Kaprizov is the 1C by default and not because they are a true 1C.

IMO the Wild will have to develop a true 1C rather than waiting for one to come knocking on the door. The Wild have a very good supporting cast to build a true 1C with. Kaprizov, Boldy and Zuccarello have done it in the past to a certain extent along with a solid D core to help out on the other end.

It's all about system, structure, style of play and most importantly patience. Can the three S's just mentioned make an individual player successful and achieve the desired outcome? I say yes, and we only have to look back to the previous regular season and Alex Ovechkin.

A primary objective of the Caps last season was to see Ovi break Gretzky's goal scoring record. How do you do that with a 39 year old? Especially when he lost 17 games to injury? He ended up scoring 44G/29A/73P in 65 games with 14G/8A/22P coming on the PP on 237 shots with just under 18 minutes average TOI. Third in the entire NHL in goals scored at age 39 in only 65 games. Incredible!

The Great Eight is a generational talent but he is well past his prime. The system, structure and style that the Caps employed, coupled with Ovechkin's remaining skills and high hockey IQ gained through years of experience, allowed their objective to be achieved. It also got them into the playoffs and past the first round. A win-win situation.

The Wild could take Yurov and anoint him their 1C on Day 1. They commit to developing him patiently and install systems, structures and styles that fit him along with his teammates. That's how the Wild will get their first true 1C.

Billy won't do it and he won't let Hynes do it. He believes in a style of play and a type of player and pigeon holes and handcuffs the organization with those realistically unattainable beliefs. And the organization's results under his dictatorship have proven that fatal flaw.

[Citizen Strife]

I really do hate the "1C" label with a passion. People use it so much, but like Arizona said, what people actually mean is, "Top Scoring Center.". The guys who are assist or goal machines.  

Ek and Rossi aren't those guys, but very damn good players who rival "1C" production (Top 32) at times.

I don't really know if it is because Reddit users overinflate and overuse the term.

Again, saying you want Top 10-15 center scoring (80-150 pt range is pretty massive disparity, but still Top range) is what people are looking for.

 

 

[Pewterschmidt]

16 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

How many true 1C's are there in the NHL? There are 32 teams but there are not 32 true 1C's. Maybe 10-15 tops? And the teams that have one value them and hold onto them dearly with few exceptions. In the past couple seasons the Wild have called Ek, Rossi, Hartman and even Sam Steel their 1C. Whoever is playing with Kaprizov is the 1C by default and not because they are a true 1C.

IMO the Wild will have to develop a true 1C rather than waiting for one to come knocking on the door. The Wild have a very good supporting cast to build a true 1C with. Kaprizov, Boldy and Zuccarello have done it in the past to a certain extent along with a solid D core to help out on the other end.

It's all about system, structure, style of play and most importantly patience. Can the three S's just mentioned make an individual player successful and achieve the desired outcome? I say yes, and we only have to look back to the previous regular season and Alex Ovechkin.

A primary objective of the Caps last season was to see Ovi break Gretzky's goal scoring record. How do you do that with a 39 year old? Especially when he lost 17 games to injury? He ended up scoring 44G/29A/73P in 65 games with 14G/8A/22P coming on the PP on 237 shots with just under 18 minutes average TOI. Third in the entire NHL in goals scored at age 39 in only 65 games. Incredible!

The Great Eight is a generational talent but he is well past his prime. The system, structure and style that the Caps employed, coupled with Ovechkin's remaining skills and high hockey IQ gained through years of experience, allowed their objective to be achieved. It also got them into the playoffs and past the first round. A win-win situation.

The Wild could take Yurov and anoint him their 1C on Day 1. They commit to developing him patiently and install systems, structures and styles that fit him along with his teammates. That's how the Wild will get their first true 1C.

Billy won't do it and he won't let Hynes do it. He believes in a style of play and a type of player and pigeon holes and handcuffs the organization with those realistically unattainable beliefs. And the organization's results under his dictatorship have proven that fatal flaw.

Unprecedented quad post

[Citizen Strife]

Looked again at the center stats just to be sure, but MacKinnon was at 116.  Top 10-20 range was anywhere from that to 75-80.  So either people want that level or offensive production (which is 15-20 clear of Rossi) or someone with an intangible talent that tilts the ice.  Ek tilts the ice, but something even...more I suppose.

That's kinda like needle in a haystack right there.  Finding an Ek+Rossi in one 8-15m package.

Would be nice to just have both and hedge bets if some team is dumb enough to sell off someone better 

...but uh, that ain't happening.

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Citizen Strife

[ArizonaWildFan]

2 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Unprecedented quad post

Very sorry about that. Bad cell coverage and hit Submit too many times. Hopefully you didn't read all of the identical posts before you realized they were the same? Again, very sorry.

[bean5302]

Just sold a motorcycle here. The market has been listing similar bikes at the $5-6k range. I listed mine at $3900. I had a full price, no haggling deposit within a few hours. Those other bikes? Still listed for sale and dropping their prices.

I see writers for team constantly overvalue their assets. A trade proposal by one of the writers of Twins Daily was absolute lunacy. It's the same thing when people are selling their personal, treasures, if you will. If the Flyers are rejecting the Rossi deal, it should be clear Rossi is not worth what the writer thinks Rossi is worth.

Here are the considerations. 
1. Rossi will not sign a qualifying offer. A team acquiring Rossi must be willing to meet Rossi's contract demands or watch him walk for picks.
2. Rossi is demanding Boldy money, but there are major red flags in projecting him. So unless a team is willing to give Rossi a 7 year deal at about $50MM (which few teams probably are/can), Rossi will not be playing for the acquiring team, see item 1.

So as valuable as Rossi is on the ice, right now, it appears the only way he's ever going to play on the ice for the acquiring team is if they're willing to pay him at 7yrs $50MM.



Other GM's, contrary to popular belief, are not idiots waiting to be fleeced by the local teams' offers or looking to acquire players who will never actually see ice time.

Edited 13 hours ago by bean5302

[Willy the poor boy]

8 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Rossi is now that piece of gum and every other GM in the league knows it.   

And every GM will try to take full advantage of the scenario, unlike Bill, who would try to do it fairly. Lol...

[RazWild]

On 5/30/2025 at 12:46 PM, Dean said:

Did anyone ever hear what other teams were offering for jiricek ? How bad did Billy overpay? 

There was at least one team that was offering two 1st's for him. And most other teams were close to what Guerin wound up paying. The difference was that Guerin offered up the 3rd and 4th rounders to put the deal over the top.

 

Additionally, break it down.

 

2025 1st: 24th OVA

2026 3rd: Colorado's

2026 4th: Toronto's

2027 2nd: Minnesota's

Daemon Hunt

 

The only picks that were ours were the 1st and 2nd. And that 2nd is three drafts from now. Plus a future 3rd pairing defenseman.

 

The 3rd and 4th aren't even our's, they're extra picks Guerin had from trading Duhaime and Dewar away. Guerin still holds his 26 3rd and 4th.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by RazWild