Article: The Minnesota Wild Devalued Their Best Trade Asset

[Tony Abbott]

View full article

[Pewterschmidt]

bill has proven he's challenged in the PR dept.  He seems to go out of his way to destroy value.  He's a buffoon and we'll see how much more rope Leo gives him.  Between the poor drafting, bill's seemingly intentional devalue-ing of our existing assets (driven by his own pestilence?), and let's not forget the front office in-fighting/lawsuits.

That said, Rossi mailed in the last 20 games of regular season and if Hynzy couldn't trust Rossi on the defensive side of the puck I can understand why Rossi's playoff TOI was reduced.  After all Hynzy's job is on the line too.  Rossi didn't do bill any favors in showcasing Rossi for a trade but bill did his best (as he does) to degrade Rossi's market value.

#dontbedumbbill

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

Billy has never been good at driving the value up on assets he wants to sell. He ended up getting very good return on Fiala, but definitely did not help himself when he sewered Fiala in several press conferences and dropped him to third line at times. 

Rossi has been a masterclass in asset mismanagement. Whether you want him on the team or not, Billy should have been trying to drive up his value, not pigeon hole him on the 4th line and repeatedly, both explicitly and implicitly, broadcast how you don't want him.

We've been desperate for centers for years and have developed a 60pt center that we now want nothing to do with. His playoffs weren't the best, despite him getting production out of the forth line. I believe it was a result of Rossi playing hurt which he admitted in the closing media availability even if it didn't require surgery. Either way, Billy decidedly burned his chance for a bridge deal.

Hopefully Billy pulls some more Fiala magic out of his butt as I think this is the litmus test for BG as to whether he is the right guy or not moving forward. If he can swing JJ Petrka then i will be happy, even if he has to sweeten things with a prospect or pick. If we end up with picks out of Rossi, my pitchfork is coming out.

#ThePitchforkIsReady

 

[Willy the poor boy]

11 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Billy has never been good at driving the value up on assets he wants to sell. He ended up getting very good return on Fiala, but definitely did not help himself when he sewered Fiala in several press conferences and dropped him to third line at times. 

Rossi has been a masterclass in asset mismanagement. Whether you want him on the team or not, Billy should have been trying to drive up his value, not pigeon hole him on the 4th line and repeatedly, both explicitly and implicitly, broadcast how you don't want him.

We've been desperate for centers for years and have developed a 60pt center that we now want nothing to do with. His playoffs weren't the best, despite him getting production out of the forth line. I believe it was a result of Rossi playing hurt which he admitted in the closing media availability even if it didn't require surgery. Either way, Billy decidedly burned his chance for a bridge deal.

Hopefully Billy pulls some more Fiala magic out of his butt as I think this is the litmus test for BG as to whether he is the right guy or not moving forward. If he can swing JJ Petrka then i will be happy, even if he has to sweeten things with a prospect or pick. If we end up with picks out of Rossi, my pitchfork is coming out.

#ThePitchforkIsReady

 

[Scalptrash]

Quote

‘Billy, never try to win a trade. Don’t try to screw the other guy over.

Um Billy....you're the one getting screwed over....repeatedly.

[ArizonaWildFan]

Fantastic take on the entire situation.

Tony and others, what's your take on Leipold? Hands off owner that has a combination President/GM so that he only has to deal with one guy when it comes to his team? Happier cashing checks and watching his equity investment increasing more than on-ice success?

If he truly wanted a successful team he would be firing Billy now rather than giving him a chance to really screw things up for next season and a few seasons following that.

[Scalptrash]

13 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Fantastic take on the entire situation.

Tony and others, what's your take on Leipold? Hands off owner that has a combination President/GM so that he only has to deal with one guy when it comes to his team? Happier cashing checks and watching his equity investment increasing more than on-ice success?

If he truly wanted a successful team he would be firing Billy now rather than giving him a chance to really screw things up for next season and a few seasons following that.

Spot on, he's only in it for the money. I think a lot more goes on behind closed doors with the commish and how franchises are operated.

[Tony Abbott]

36 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Tony and others, what's your take on Leipold?

The two biggest things you want ownership to do are...

1. Spend money
2. Stay out of the way of the decision-makers

Wild ownership spends, you're never going to knock them for that. It also seems to me like they let their GMs cook. I don't think ownership was the driving force behind the Parise/Suter contracts -- any GM would have done that move, given the opportunity. They seem to maybe value stability to a fault (Fletcher got a ton of rope, so is Guerin), but you also don't want to be changing GMs every 3 years or so. 

I believe they want to win, I just am not sure their trust is in the right guy to deliver on that. 

[Dean]

Great article. Spot on. I was reading a flyers article yesterday. They were saying  they couldn’t believe how the flyers wouldn’t pay forester or a late round pick for Rossi.  The flyers site was saying usually there management is tight lipped so the fact this story got out  only made sense in they were trying to devalue Rossi . Just like this article is saying . Obviously other GMs know the Rossi situation an are most likely leaking this stuff to devalue Rossi to other teams . That way the flyers can swoop in a pay nothing for him. This Is what there article alluded to. 
   I totally agree Billy did a master class in devaluing an asset in Rossi. Putting Rossi as 4 th line center behind Fred the worst analytical player in the entire playoffs did great at devaluing him and proving the coach and gm are clowns. His let’s all be friends approach to building a team is going to get him fleeced. He needs to get what he paid for Jiricek’! Or he’s a fool. Either In the jiricek trade or in whatever he gives away Rossi for.  A projected 2 nd line center with proven nhl experience 9 th overall , is as valuable as a top 4 right shot d man 6 th overall with limited nhl experience.. so Billy set his own expectations trying to make Columbus happy. Now he needs to make our fans happy  with the same return. Good luck with that Billy ! At least we have 3 more years of 2 nd line Fred . Ridiculous! 

[Dean]

Did anyone ever hear what other teams were offering for jiricek ? How bad did Billy overpay? 

[Citizen Strife]

I'm less confused by Guerin supposedly selling off Rossi for Foerster or a weak 1st than by Briere not taking Rossi for 7x7.

[B1GKappa97]

Yawn. This is like when we bitched that he devalued Kevin Fiala in an interview too.

And then all he did was turn him into a Brock Faber and win the trade outright. Ho hum. Maybe let's pump the brakes until we see the actual return??

[B1GKappa97]

2 hours ago, Scalptrash said:

Um Billy....you're the one getting screwed over....repeatedly.

We got the worst end of the Fiala trade huh? Or the Greenway trade? Or the Kaapo trade? Or getting MAF for a 2nd? Or the Talbot trade?

[FredJohnson]

[FredJohnson]

10 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

We got the worst end of the Fiala trade huh? Or the Greenway trade? Or the Kaapo trade? Or getting MAF for a 2nd? Or the Talbot trade?

Well, besides those... (sarcasm)

[ArizonaWildFan]

13 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

And then all he did was turn him into a Brock Faber and win the trade outright. Ho hum. Maybe let's pump the brakes until we see the actual return??

OK, so because of the cap Hell he created, Guerin couldn't afford to sign Fiala; it wasn't a choice that BG made on his own. He had to get rid of Kevin out of necessity.

The Kings needed star power and Fiala was going to be available. Neither LA or the Wild knew what Faber was going to become, he was still a Gopher. The Kings had five other RHD's and Brock was the odd man out to both the team and their fans. The Kings offered Faber, Guerin didn't demand him.

The other piece of the trade ended up being first round pick Liam Ohgren. How has Ohgren done so far and what will he become? He hasn't done much at the NHL level yet and we will see what happens in the future.

The point is, Guerin had to wave goodbye to Fiala, it wasn't a genius GM move. He got two unknowns in return; one that wasn't his choice (Faber) and one that was (Ohgren). The one that wasn't his choice has turned out well and the one that was his choice is still an unknown. Doesn't make Billy look like a genius or the smartest guy in the room, just a guy who got lucky that Faber became what he is.

[WildNotMild]

What if Billy is a genius (heavy sarcasm)?  In the end, the Wild can match any offer sheet.  If other teams aren’t going to high offer sheet Rossi because they think they can get him cheaper in a trade, then this mess might work in the Wild’s favor.  If Rossi’s value is so deflated due to Hynes and Billy’s tactics, maybe the Wild get to keep him for cheap (whatever lower value another team ends up offer sheeting him for).  I would prefer to keep a Rossi who is happy and feels appreciated rather than a Rossi who is disgruntled and doesn’t feel appreciated.

[WildNotMild]

4 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

OK, so because of the cap Hell he created, Guerin couldn't afford to sign Fiala; it wasn't a choice that BG made on his own. He had to get rid of Kevin out of necessity.

The Kings needed star power and Fiala was going to be available. Neither LA or the Wild knew what Faber was going to become, he was still a Gopher. The Kings had five other RHD's and Brock was the odd man out to both the team and their fans. The Kings offered Faber, Guerin didn't demand him.

The other piece of the trade ended up being first round pick Liam Ohgren. How has Ohgren done so far and what will he become? He hasn't done much at the NHL level yet and we will see what happens in the future.

The point is, Guerin had to wave goodbye to Fiala, it wasn't a genius GM move. He got two unknowns in return; one that wasn't his choice (Faber) and one that was (Ohgren). The one that wasn't his choice has turned out well and the one that was his choice is still an unknown. Doesn't make Billy look like a genius or the smartest guy in the room, just a guy who got lucky that Faber became what he is.

Agree with most of what you said, except Billy could have kept Fiala instead of another player.  There were a lot of fans wanting to trade Dumba instead of trading Fiala.  That move alone might have been enough money to keep Fiala.  If not, one less country club contract with an over the hill vet or at least not overpaying for one of his country club buddies would have definitely been enough.  Those decisions definitely need to be owned by Billy.

[ArizonaWildFan]

12 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

Agree with most of what you said, except Billy could have kept Fiala instead of another player.

That is true and correct. I don't think GMBG valued Fiala then or Rossi now, they aren't Guerin Guys.

Just want to get ahead of some expected blow back on the Fiala, Faber, Ohgren trade. If the genius that is Bill Guerin knew that Faber was going to be the Faber we have now, why did he draft Ryan O'Rourke, a defenseman and a fixture in the Iowa lineup, with the 39th overall pick in the 2020 draft and let Faber slide down to the Kings at #45?

Interesting that he picked Marco Rossi with the 9th pick that draft year and Marat Khusnutinov with the 37th pick. Marat is gone for a cup of coffee and Rossi will be gone for a burger and fries.

Makes me think that I wouldn't want to have Billy as my stockbroker or financial advisor. Traditional mindset is to buy low and sell high, as opposed to the Guerin Method of buying high and selling low.

[B1GKappa97]

47 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

OK, so because of the cap Hell he created, Guerin couldn't afford to sign Fiala; it wasn't a choice that BG made on his own. He had to get rid of Kevin out of necessity.

Guerin didn't create that cap-hell. Fletcher did. Guerin just had to make the most of it because he was the GM in charge at the end of the Parise/Suter contracts. Which we all knew would suck when we signed them in 2012.

And despite having limited leverage, it looks like he knocked that assignment out of the park if you want to actually be objective about it.

[B1GKappa97]

44 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

Agree with most of what you said, except Billy could have kept Fiala instead of another player.  There were a lot of fans wanting to trade Dumba instead of trading Fiala.  That move alone might have been enough money to keep Fiala.  If not, one less country club contract with an over the hill vet or at least not overpaying for one of his country club buddies would have definitely been enough.  Those decisions definitely need to be owned by Billy.

Right it would TOTALLY be better to have a 29 year old Kevin Fiala right now, who still hasn't made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs either, instead of a 23-year old top-pair RHD who should be a staple in the lineup for the next decade... 

Okay man.. whatever you say... 

[ArizonaWildFan]

45 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

What if Billy is a genius (heavy sarcasm)?  In the end, the Wild can match any offer sheet.

 

45 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

I would prefer to keep a Rossi who is happy and feels appreciated rather than a Rossi who is disgruntled and doesn’t feel appreciated.

Exactly, WildNotMild.

Guerin still has an offramp ahead of this muli-car pileup of his own creation and that is to tell Rossi's camp that he has not handled the situation well, offer Marco the $7M/7YR Boldy deal, and tell Rossi that he will work to build a better team around the core. A characteristic of true genius is knowing when you have made mistakes and correcting them.

[ArizonaWildFan]

8 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

Right it would TOTALLY be better to have a 29 year old Kevin Fiala right now, who still hasn't made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs either, instead of a 23-year old top-pair RHD who should be a staple in the lineup for the next decade... 

Okay man.. whatever you say... 

Not intending to argue with you, B1GKappa97, but in 2020 when Faber was drafted by the Kings six picks after the Wild selected Ryan O'Rourke, and in 2022 when the Kings included Faber as part of the Fiala trade, no one knew what Faber would become. You make it sound like BG is a genius because we ended up with Faber and that is just not the case.

[B1GKappa97]

10 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Not intending to argue with you, B1GKappa97, but in 2020 when Faber was drafted by the Kings six picks after the Wild selected Ryan O'Rourke, and in 2022 when the Kings included Faber as part of the Fiala trade, no one knew what Faber would become. You make it sound like BG is a genius because we ended up with Faber and that is just not the case.

I'm not saying he's a genius, just that he made the most of a bad situation that was put on him. They misevaluated Faber in 2020, sure, but then they clearly rectified it after. 

I just think we're not giving him enough credit for the work he did in bolstering the roster for the long-term with the Fiala situation, or just chalking it up to luck and acting like the GM didn't recognize that was a good deal when he made it.

[ArizonaWildFan]

23 minutes ago, B1GKappa97 said:

Guerin didn't create that cap-hell. Fletcher did. Guerin just had to make the most of it because he was the GM in charge at the end of the Parise/Suter contracts.

A couple things here: the Parise/Suter contracts are still biting the Wild in the ass (to a much lesser extent) and costing the organization $1.67M this season. And Guerin did create the cap Hell; he was the GM that decided on the buyouts, not Fletcher. Arguably, Fletcher may or may not have made a mistake in signing those contracts, but again, arguably, Guerin may or may not have made a mistake in buying out the contracts.

Personally, I wonder how a genius GM could not have found a better way than the buyouts.