Article: The Wild Shouldn't Offload Rossi To Clear A 2026 Cap Logjam

[Enforceror]

1 minute ago, MNCountryLife said:

It's a great point.  You have to have proper value in the bottom 6.  But it starts with that top guy.  If you pay him too much you can't properly back fill and different areas of your roster will suffer.  Toronto is a great example of this.  They have 4 guys making more than Barkov.. but it's a steep drop off after those 4 guys.. and they lost.  Florida built a better roster top to bottom.

Completely agree. It's a balance. I'd say we've spent our time building bottom to top. Just need get that top 6 going and I think we're in business.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

That still raises questions about Minnesota’s management over the past several seasons. Why bring in Judd Brackett to draft undersized producers like Rossi, Buium, and Riley Heidt if that doesn’t fit into management’s vision for a championship? 

This is the biggest thing for me right now. We were trying to rebuild the cupboards in 2020, so I get taking the best talented center available. The debate of whether or not this was Rossi or Lundell is still there, but Judd took Rossi. 

But what I don't get is Judd constantly drafting undersized guys especially on defense when it is not the vision of Guerin. Where is the disconnect? Why isn't the draft board constructed to Guerin's vision? Why are we drafting players that appear to have "soft skill?" I simply don't understand this. 

I'm more than certain that Guerin took the 1st 2 large centers in the 2023 draft and then handed the reins over to Judd. It would seem to me that if size was a big deal to Guerin, then size should be a big deal to Judd. Why has the draft board not been re-evaluated for what you want in a prospect.

Furthermore, other than a couple of writers on this site, I don't know of anyone that was clamoring for Perrault here. I know I was rooting for Oliver Moore and then Calum Ritchie. 

Now, if the Wild are wanting to offload salary, Spurgy looks like the guy, to me. He can still play and was arguably the best defender in the Vegas series playing on the #2 pairing. Seems like a team like Detroit could use a guy like that as their desperation for a playoff birth is red hot now. You'd think you could pluck off a Nate Danielson from them. Offloading Rossi for salary space is just plain stupid.

[greg]

So we get the Rossi hater rant here with all it's gory details.  I'm convinced that Wild won't be significantly better next year due to all the money budgeted for Kirill and locked in contracts to many of those big guys Guerin likes.  You know.  The ones that can deliver a nice check but can't skate or otherwise play hockey.  

[MacGyver]

I repeat myself but what the hell I'm just trying to get my post count up! Rossi is gone. All we can do is wait to find out what the return is. Billy does not like him and the reason why doesn't matter. Rossi has reached the point of ok then just get me out of here which is why I think he turned down the 5X5 offer. If you are a 23 year old center putting up 60 points in the NHL on a middling team that has been starving for centers since time began you DO NOT take a 5X5 deal it's a damn insult. I'll call anyone here a liar or a fool if they say they would take that deal. I think Billy low balled him with intent to insult. Billy doesn't learn. He gave Fiala a prove it deal after arbitration and Fiala made him eat a shit sandwich by putting up 80 and then saying I'm outta here and I'm going to LA! Billy seethed and publicly. "so Kevin had a couple good months" was all he could muster because Billy does not know how to take the high road. It's just not in him. 

We will see Brock Nelson is a Wild jersey and we will have to be happy with that. Rossi will probably end up in a Av's jersey as part of the deal and he will eat our lunch every time he plays us just like Fiala does.  I'll repeat myself again Nelson is the only player in the league who has actually stated he wants to be here. That's half the battle the Wild are fighting. The other half is Billy likes him. Done deal and Billy will be generous paying him. Because well, he likes him. Billy runs and deals in emotion. 

Semi elite or particularly elite players do not want to come here. We have been snubbed by Laine, Correy Perry and a few others. You think B Tkachuk wants to come here when he most likely would have his pick of the litter if he were to leave Ottowa?  He just recently stated he is going nowhere. You think Marner would want to come here after most likely being enticed by Vegas, Rangers, Canes and other elite teams?  We need to read the room and realize where we stand amongst our peers in the league. We have a GM who is most likely as polarizing around the league as he is on this board, we have exactly ZERO winning culture and we live in a very tax aggressive state. We have more to overcome than many of the other teams in the league. 

[ArizonaWildFan]

22 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

I'd say we've spent our time building bottom to top.

That is a fantastic observation. I would add my opinion that Billy has been guilty more than once for overpaying that bottom (sorry ODG, I am referring to your man crush, Trenin). You just don't pay $3.5M per year for four years for a bottom six at best or likely fourth liner. That's what the AHL, ELC's and two-way contracts are for when needed.

Contracts like Trenin's also hamper the development of prospects. Billy is too proud and arrogant to put a $3.5M contract in the press box in favor of an ELC prospect. He did the same with Nyquist in the playoffs. If you scratch a higher paid or a more experienced player that you gave up draft capital for it is a perceived admission of making a mistake. Billy does not make mistakes, at least in his mind. If there are problems, it is with the players, or at least the players that aren't Billy Guys.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

I keep watching scoreboards and looking at box scores for something other than goals that determine who wins and who loses a hockey game and I just can't find anything. What am I missing here, ODC? Where should I be looking?

This may come as a surprise to you, but 100% of the time the team that scores the most goals in a game is declared the winner. Who would have thought? A very novel concept. You would think it would be based on the combination of the size and age of the players or the GRIT metric of a team, wouldn't you?

I'm really starting to wonder if you truly believe some of the stuff that you type or if you are just poking the bear and trying to get a rise?

You're right, the team with the most goals is normally declared the winner. Here is what you're missing:

For the past few series, the Wild have jumped out to 2-1 series leads. However, when you look at how Florida dismantled Toronto, winning games 5 & 7 6-1 in Toronto, you can see the same thing that has happened to us. Toronto held serve with the 1st 2 wins at home. But, the toll the physical play took on them allowed Florida to close out the series in the later games. 

Our problem hasn't been jumping out to a 2-1 series lead, our problem has been closing a team out. Games 1 & 2 Foligno and Trenin were hitting everything in sight. Games 3 & 4 the physical game let up, especially in game 4. This is mainly because Foligno and Trenin couldn't do it all themselves in the physical department. Breezers chipped in more later, but it wasn't enough. Vegas had too many redwoods on their roster. They didn't wear down because they didn't have just 2 guys running guys.

Well, how did Edmonton get past them then? Because Edmonton also had a few big guys, but also speed, speed we don't have. They have a supremely skilled big guy in Draisaitl that can hit and score. We don't have that. Our guys are pretty much 1 dimensional and that is the flaw in the roster construction.

Do we have a triple threat who can hit, playmake, and score? No, we do not. At the very least, we need thick guys who can handle the hits and still playmake and score. Boldy looked like the closest thing we had in that regard. 

You don't need just one guy like that, but 4/6 of your top 6 need to be like that. This is why we wilt, this is why Toronto wilted, this is why Colorado wilted. With Colorado, Dallas could match their speed good enough, and of course had the better goalie.

This is why I complain so much about players not making themselves NHL ready in the A. When they get here, their bodies are not capable of taking on 82 games + playoffs with the strength program they are on. I do not know why building muscle is not demanded of the players. It should be. 

[ArizonaWildFan]

10 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

You're right, the team with the most goals is normally declared the winner.

mnfan, I am not being argumentative with you, you make some great points that I completely agree with. But the team that scores the most goals in a game is ALWAYS the winner. The question becomes how do you become the team that scores the most goals in a game. You answered that with some well thought out and valid points. My rebuttal post to ODG was that goals do matter, and scoring more goals than your opponent is how you win games. Goals are the ultimate measure of success in a game. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Where do I find the softness, intensity, passiveness, and disengagement metrics that you often use to rate Rossi when you evaluate him? It's an eye test and an opinion that you use not based on facts and statistics. If you don't like Rossi and you don't want to watch him on your team, just say it. Don't conjure up crap to justify your feelings.

I never liked Ryan Suter and never wanted him to be on the team I cheered for. I hated watching his cheap ass cross checks when he played against us and for us. Stats and numbers maybe supported him, but I still didn't like him and was glad to see him leave. You see, it's not that hard to share your feelings.

The eye test is the best way to see a player. Yes, opinions are formed. The best way to use statistics is to "see on paper" what maybe you should be looking at. Then, you take that information and see if it matches up with the eye test. This has to be done over a great amount of games.

I think the best example I've seen of this was in the baseball movie "Trouble with the Curve." While the scout had lost most of his eyesight, he was watching with his ears. He correctly figured out that the guy was simply too strong for the league he played in, it wasn't his swing but brute strength that got the job done. That equalized when he went against stronger competition. 

Now, in the movie, one guy said he was watching him the whole year....from his computer summary of the box score. He had no idea if the guy could hit, he just used stats. Now, the scout could see the stats and interpret what he would expect. In this case, the stats did not match the eye test. 

I don't mind going the analytics route, but that route merely suggests what should happen. The eye test is needed enough times to be able to confirm or deny what has happened. I see the game that way like ODC, but probably come with different conclusions. For instance, for team stats, I like XGF vs. XGA. I also like net special teams and I expect with the structure we play with that our Shooting% + Save%> 1.00. 

Simple stats that show how we're doing. Then we look at the eye test and wonder why other teams get 70% of the breakaways in a season? And as far as production goes, a rub out, a blocked shot and a saved goal should be part of the considered production.

For instance, let's take Rossi in OT. Much can be made that he was on the ice for the goal, and I get that the line gets blamed. Rossi had his guy tied up along the boards behind the net. He canceled out his guy. He has absolutely nothing to do with that goal against. I believe it was Merrill and Bogosian who were directly responsible for that one. The eye test denies the -1 on Rossi in that situation.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

Billy does not like him and the reason why doesn't matter. Rossi has reached the point of ok then just get me out of here which is why I think he turned down the 5X5 offer. If you are a 23 year old center putting up 60 points in the NHL on a middling team that has been starving for centers since time began you DO NOT take a 5X5 deal it's a damn insult.

I've been out of the loop for awhile, when was the 5 x $5m deal offered, at the end of the year, middle of the year, beginning of the year?

If I were betting on myself which Rossi must probably do, I could see something in the neighborhood of 2x $4.5m as a bridge. Yes, go prove it, and give the player a punch list of the things he must improve on to be considered for a longterm deal.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Where do I find the softness, intensity, passiveness, and disengagement metrics that you often use to rate Rossi when you evaluate him? It's an eye test and an opinion that you use not based on facts and statistics. If you don't like Rossi and you don't want to watch him on your team, just say it. Don't conjure up crap to justify your feelings.

I never liked Ryan Suter and never wanted him to be on the team I cheered for. I hated watching his cheap ass cross checks when he played against us and for us. Stats and numbers maybe supported him, but I still didn't like him and was glad to see him leave. You see, it's not that hard to share your feelings.

Where do I find the softness, intensity, passiveness, and disengagement metrics that you often use to rate Rossi when you evaluate him?

Rossi will invent that metric especially for you and other non-believers. but easier route - look at PO this year - that is as checked out as a player can be. yes yes he scored! but wait if we go with that reasoning - so did Trenin and Braz! LOCK BRAZ UP for 8 years, just like Rossi because 2 pts in 2 games is 2 pts in 2 games. Right?

It's an eye test and an opinion that you use not based on facts and statistics.

and why is it not a good barometer? especially for a short data size - it is very good indicator! let's not go too far and judge game 3 - 

boldy ZERO pts - braz ONE point ---- so by your logic - Braz wins it and lets celebrate him and crap on Boldy! yeah - flawless tactic

I never liked Ryan Suter and never wanted him to be on the team I cheered for. I hated watching his cheap ass cross checks when he played against us and for us. Stats and numbers maybe supported him, but I still didn't like him and was glad to see him leave. You see, it's not that hard to share your feelings. not sure what you mean here....you cheer for players who you don't like as long as they are on your team? i guess ok. 🍻

Edited 6 hours ago by OldDutchChip

[mnfaninnc]

50 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

1 hour ago, Enforceror said:

I'd say we've spent our time building bottom to top.

That is a fantastic observation. I would add my opinion that Billy has been guilty more than once for overpaying that bottom

I don't think he's going bottom up, I think he's going goalie out. At this point, we have no 2nd line. That is what needs to be filled. We have 1 piece that we could consider there, but need some size to help. Zuccy is not that 1 piece, he is a 4th liner/specialist who should be taking shifts on the 2nd line, just not as many.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

This is the biggest thing for me right now. We were trying to rebuild the cupboards in 2020, so I get taking the best talented center available. The debate of whether or not this was Rossi or Lundell is still there, but Judd took Rossi. 

But what I don't get is Judd constantly drafting undersized guys especially on defense when it is not the vision of Guerin. Where is the disconnect? Why isn't the draft board constructed to Guerin's vision? Why are we drafting players that appear to have "soft skill?" I simply don't understand this. 

I'm more than certain that Guerin took the 1st 2 large centers in the 2023 draft and then handed the reins over to Judd. It would seem to me that if size was a big deal to Guerin, then size should be a big deal to Judd. Why has the draft board not been re-evaluated for what you want in a prospect.

Furthermore, other than a couple of writers on this site, I don't know of anyone that was clamoring for Perrault here. I know I was rooting for Oliver Moore and then Calum Ritchie. 

Now, if the Wild are wanting to offload salary, Spurgy looks like the guy, to me. He can still play and was arguably the best defender in the Vegas series playing on the #2 pairing. Seems like a team like Detroit could use a guy like that as their desperation for a playoff birth is red hot now. You'd think you could pluck off a Nate Danielson from them. Offloading Rossi for salary space is just plain stupid.

Offloading Rossi for salary space is just plain stupid. not necessarily - what if Billy has a deal for a better fit and just needs room. i doubt he is thinking two steps ahead but who knows. what i do believe - is that every player deep down knows that Rossi gave up and want him gone. and no matter what - he will be gone. that is set in stone. 

[Protec]

It could be worse. 

The Wild are not the Maple Leafs. 

[ArizonaWildFan]

3 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I believe it was Merrill and Bogosian who were directly responsible for that one. The eye test denies the -1 on Rossi in that situation.

I broke that play down almost verbatim, but also added Brazeau, in a post condemning Rossi the following day. I am not a complete stats guy nor a complete eye test, what does your gut tell you guy.

I'm glad that you brought up the 70% breakaway stat. The eye test shows me that more than a few of those come from ill-advised shots from our defenseman on the left or right point. A fair number of those shots get blocked and deflect towards the neutral zone in the middle of the ice. The two Wild defenseman are facing into the offensive zone while the other team's players are facing the opposite direction and can turn on the jets, pick up the puck and have a breakaway.

As much as I want to see the Wild D-men get involved offensively, I would prefer to see them take shots quickly rather than waiting for the other team to get in position to defend. I would love to see the stats on Faber, Spurgeon and Bogosian as far as how many of the shots they take from the point are blocked to either confirm or contradict my eye test.

Good points again mnfan.

[mnfaninnc]

15 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

mnfan, I am not being argumentative with you, you make some great points that I completely agree with. But the team that scores the most goals in a game is ALWAYS the winner. The question becomes how do you become the team that scores the most goals in a game. You answered that with some well thought out and valid points. My rebuttal post to ODG was that goals do matter, and scoring more goals than your opponent is how you win games. Goals are the ultimate measure of success in a game. 

You're right, but that's where we have the problem. We can get up 2-1 in a series, and are so exhausted doing so, especially with our bigger players that are fewer than most cup contenders, that we cannot finish out a series by scoring more goals.

If I'm looking at the eye test, what I saw was Foligno running out of gas after game 2. We needed his physicality every shift and then some to finish off VGK, but that next gear simply wasn't there. This is why we need to have guys with size, speed, playmaking ability and scoring ability and not 1 trick ponies in the top 6. 

So, if Zuccy is part of the top 6, he can do 1 of those 4 things and another skill very well. He can pass and buttonhook. That is the degree of his usefulness and he should be getting 4th line minutes in a playoff series (but not playing on a 4th line). My hope is that Yurov comes in at about 195 and growing, that will help.

I'll say it again, nobody considers Gaudreau to be undersized when he is, in fact, listed below Rossi in weight. While he did produce about .5 ppg, he was still too light for playoff production and it showed. Yes, he skated into traffic to give them a bug on the windshield affect. These positions need to be filled with guys who have those abilities + being able to take hits and throw them. That is my conclusion of not being successful past game 3 in a series. 

We almost stole one with Nyquist being offside which didn't affect the play one bit, but the facts are still there: 4 series, 2-1 series leads, 0-4 in the series. 

To be absolutely fair, we had to field a team once the buyouts took place. We couldn't really afford more than undervalued players who could do a couple of things right. This is a good time to trade them. I think it was another thread where someone thought Zuccy had and M-NTC, but he does not, it's a full NMC. It's not impossible to trade him, but he is in full control of where he goes.

[mnfaninnc]

25 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

what i do believe - is that every player deep down knows that Rossi gave up and want him gone. and no matter what - he will be gone. that is set in stone. 

Please keep in mind I've been on radio silence since we were eliminated. What evidence is there that the team wants him gone?

[hydguy75]

What a hot article and highly contested analysis.  We pretty much all agree:

• The Wild need more from their Top 6 to overtake a PO series
• The Wild's priority is re-signing KK, but that will curb funds to bolster the other Top 6
• GB and JB are NOT on the same page with building the Wild roster and pipeline - size vs speed, and both seem to miss the mark of consistent NHL grade hockey
• Individually, each of the contracts seem to make sense, at the time of signing, which the Wild brought on themselves with odd moves.  
• The team pay chart is a hot mess with no clear vision.  
• BG managing the Rossi situation emotionally instead of strategically is going to cost us.  BG, if you want to move the Rossi, stop snubbing him publicly, have a man to man talk, ask him where he wants to go, and work to get Rossi AND the Wild the best deal both in terms of trade, value, and peace
• Even with opening buyout cap space AND league cap moving up, the Wild are STILL behind the 8 ball for salary cap (and hoping these entry level guys work out like KK or Faber out of the gate is not a solid strategy, its buying $1 scratch off lottery tickets and thinking they all will be $1M winners)

And my personal opinion on Rossi... when the injuries will piling up faster than bodies on "300", the Wild was forced to lean on Rossi.  He's still young, and I thought he had some bright spots, but not the stamina to be KK's sub for months on end.  I wonder how many 25 and under could fill that role and where Rossi stacks up in that mix.  

Edited 5 hours ago by hydguy75

[Enforceror]

1 minute ago, hydguy75 said:

What a hot article and highly contested analysis.  We pretty much all agree:

• The Wild need more from their Top 6 to overtake a PO series
• The Wild's priority is re-signing KK, but that will curb funds to bolster the other Top 6
• GB and JB are NOT on the same page with building the Wild roster and pipeline - size vs speed, and both seem to miss the mark of consistent NHL grade hockey
• Individually, each of the contracts seem to make sense, at the time of signing, which the Wild brought on themselves with odd moves.  
• The team pay chart is a hot mess with no clear vision.  
• BG managing the Rossi situation emotionally instead of strategically is going to cost us.  BG, if you want to move the Rossi, stop snubbing him publicly, have a man to man talk, ask him where he wants to go, and work to get Rossi AND the Wild the best deal both in terms of trade, value, and peace
• Even with opening buyout cap space AND league cap moving up, the Wild are STILL behind the 8 ball for salary cap (and hoping these entry level guys work out like KK or Faber out of the gate is not a solid strategy, its buying $1 scratch off lottery tickets and thinking they all will be $1M winners)

And my personal opinion on Rossi... when they injuries will piling up faster than bodies on "300", the Wild was forced to lean on Rossi.  He's still young, and I thought he had some bright spots, but not the stamina to be KK's sub for months on end.  I wonder how many 25 and under could fill that role and where Rossi stacks up in that mix.  

Pretty accurate summary I think.

[mnfaninnc]

18 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

I'm glad that you brought up the 70% breakaway stat. The eye test shows me that more than a few of those come from ill-advised shots from our defenseman on the left or right point. A fair number of those shots get blocked and deflect towards the neutral zone in the middle of the ice. The two Wild defenseman are facing into the offensive zone while the other team's players are facing the opposite direction and can turn on the jets, pick up the puck and have a breakaway.

It seems to me that the Wild have a high to low to high offensive strategy and expect a lot of shots from the point. It also seems to me that this offensive strategy in a 7 game playoff series would be easy to defend. You simply put your wings up high in the shooting lanes moving forward.

The benefit of Spurgy is his quickness, as he fakes a shot and scoots around that top forward getting a better shot quality. Faber has been learning from Spurgy but isn't really as quick as Spurgy is, though I think he's faster in straight line speed. So, my eye test would suggest that Spurgy in that group had the least amount of shots blocked going back the other way. 

Now, as we're on the topic, the move that Jiricek put on a defender on Trenin's goal back in, I think, January was a move that only an elite player can make any size. I really hope he trains hard to learn to skate backwards, but let's remember, Bobby Orr couldn't skate backwards either.

[mnfaninnc]

56 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

I broke that play down almost verbatim, but also added Brazeau, in a post condemning Rossi the following day. I am not a complete stats guy nor a complete eye test, what does your gut tell you guy.

And sorry I couldn't keep up with the comments while away. I took 1 devise to get internet from, since each devise costs about $21 a day for internet coverage. 5 days into the cruise, with my phone on airplane mode, it started to die. With 5 days left, it completely gave up the ghost. I couldn't read everything on the phone, and certainly was not about to log in and try to write with all the pop ups. 

I did read the articles as best as I could, but some of the writer's suggestions about what to do made me wonder if a lot of cocaine was being served. Being respectful, these ideas do not seem to go along with the vision that management has for this team. Some of the ideas are 2 doors down from my box of ideas and I had WTF face while reading (which emoji is that?) 

So, how many people have seen the Dr. Rick episode of flying and who had paper tickets? I learned why we still need paper tickets, my screen was blown and locked. I'm sure there is a Murphy's law as to when a person's phone dies, and it's probably never at a good time. What are some of the other stories of phone's dying at the wrong time?

[OldDutchChip]

50 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Please keep in mind I've been on radio silence since we were eliminated. What evidence is there that the team wants him gone?

None of us have any real evidence on anything - but a team athlete knows when others slack or tune out. The team know, the captains know and management knows. Not one player checked out but Rossi. Even Nyquist tried! Yes he failed, but that’s another topic.

[ArizonaWildFan]

23 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Where do I find the softness, intensity, passiveness, and disengagement metrics that you often use to rate Rossi when you evaluate him?

Rossi will invent that metric especially for you and other non-believers. but easier route - look at PO this year - that is as checked out as a player can be.

Sorry ODC, that response just doesn't cut it. I'm going to sound like a broken record one more time and then I'm going to check out. You use 9 in 22 when you're trying to make a point but won't acknowledge 51 in 60 when your point is countered. You cite stats when they help make your point and then call stats irrelevant when they accurately contradict your point.

Billy says Ek needs additional center help to relieve pressure and you parrot that. But when it is pointed out that Rossi replaced Ek when he was injured for over a quarter of the season, crickets on additional center help during that stretch. Just 9 in 22, that's what we hear from you.

As far as Rossi in the playoffs, demoting him to the fourth line was a completely senseless and utterly stupid dick move orchestrated by Guerin and it could legitimately be argued that it cost the Wild the series. End of story.

I don't know if you work or have a job, but let's assume that you understand the concept. You think you perform your duties well, your co-workers think you perform your duties well and your performance or production numbers for the year are in the top three in your local branch and top thirty in the entire company throughout the U.S. and Canada.

One day your boss tells you that you are being demoted because your numbers are down recently. You explain that your numbers are down because you've been covering for another guy while he's out with an injury and you're not getting any help. Doesn't matter, your boss's boss, the big guy, decided that's the way it's going to be so buck up.

How do you react, ODG? Really, no crap answers, please. I know I would probably check out to a certain extent and believe most others in the same situation would, too. Did Rossi check out in the playoffs? My answer is that he may have to a certain extent and I can understand why. If he didn't, he's a bigger man than most of us because we probably would have. If he did check out, he was put in the position to check out by Guerin and Hynes.

You can quote and BOLD my reply until you're blue in the face, but please don't insult what little intelligence I have left with another ludicrous pile of crap response.

Thank you and good night.

[Will D. Ness]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

For instance, let's take Rossi in OT. Much can be made that he was on the ice for the goal, and I get that the line gets blamed. Rossi had his guy tied up along the boards behind the net. He canceled out his guy. He has absolutely nothing to do with that goal against. I believe it was Merrill and Bogosian who were directly responsible for that one. The eye test denies the -1 on Rossi in that situation.

My eye test remembers the guy Rossi was "defending from behind" made the assist to the guy Merrill was "defending from behind" and the season ended.

But to the greater point, the eye test is ridiculously subjective, but then again so is some guy trying to make a point using statistics with analytical equations they do not understand and most likely cherry pick.

Which is better?  Depends on the guy.

[OldDutchChip]

12 minutes ago, ArizonaWildFan said:

Sorry ODC, that response just doesn't cut it. I'm going to sound like a broken record one more time and then I'm going to check out. You use 9 in 22 when you're trying to make a point but won't acknowledge 51 in 60 when your point is countered.

 

Billy says Ek needs additional center help to relieve pressure and you parrot that. But when it is pointed out that Rossi replaced Ek when he was injured for over a quarter of the season, crickets on additional center help during that stretch. Just 9 in 22, that's what we hear from you.

As far as Rossi in the playoffs, demoting him to the fourth line was a completely senseless and utterly stupid dick move orchestrated by Guerin and it could legitimately be argued that it cost the Wild the series. End of story.

I don't know if you work or have a job, but let's assume that you understand the concept. You think you perform your duties well, your co-workers think you perform your duties well and your performance or production numbers for the year are in the top three in your local branch and top thirty in the entire company throughout the U.S. and Canada.

One day your boss tells you that you are being demoted because your numbers are down recently. You explain that your numbers are down because you've been covering for another guy while he's out with an injury and you're not getting any help. Doesn't matter, your boss's boss, the big guy, decided that's the way it's going to be so buck up.

How do you react, ODG? Really, no crap answers, please. I know I would probably check out to a certain extent and believe most others in the same situation would, too. Did Rossi check out in the playoffs? My answer is that he may have to a certain extent and I can understand why. If he didn't, he's a bigger man than most of us because we probably would have. If he did check out, he was put in the position to check out by Guerin and Hynes.

You can quote and BOLD my reply until you're blue in the face, but please don't insult what little intelligence I have left with another ludicrous pile of crap response.

Thank you and good night.

You use 9 in 22 when you're trying to make a point but won't acknowledge 51 in 60 when your point is countered. you can see if there is a dip and investigate the issue. more variety of ways at looking at data is helpful. 

You cite stats when they help make your point and then call stats irrelevant when they accurately contradict your point. never said stats were evil, but i did say we should use them in combination with other methods. in rossi's case both stats and eye test showed a player that struggled mightily 

As far as Rossi in the playoffs, demoting him to the fourth line was a completely senseless and utterly stupid dick move orchestrated by Guerin and it could legitimately be argued that it cost the Wild the series. End of story. overly emotional here Zona. it wasn't a dick move, it was a strategic move. Rossi struggled and his play was showing it. He wasn't doing the other things that other players were. He dropped on the depth chart because he was a one-trick pony and his trick wasn't too successful. He deserved his time at 4th line. And when something clicked for a bit - Hynes rightfully kept him there to see if he can continue the production on a line that protected him and gave him a chance to go against a lesser competition. 

I don't know if you work or have a job, but let's assume that you understand the concept. i can also count to 10!

You think you perform your duties well, your co-workers think you perform your duties well and your performance or production numbers for the year are in the top three in your local branch and top thirty in the entire company throughout the U.S. and Canada.

One day your boss tells you that you are being demoted because your numbers are down recently. You explain that your numbers are down because you've been covering for another guy while he's out with an injury and you're not getting any help. Doesn't matter, your boss's boss, the big guy, decided that's the way it's going to be so buck up.

HAHA sports is different than real life! believe it or not i do NOT get interviewed after each day and do not thank god nor dance and celebrate after a job well done. there is also matchups against another team, strategic planning and positioning yourself for success that is really not like what is practiced in the corporate world. So good try!

How do you react, ODG? Really, no crap answers, please. I know I would probably check out to a certain extent and believe most others in the same situation would, too. you do know that NHL, and sports in general, is what have you done for me lately? and if you are struggling there are consequences. is there an AHL team that a corporate place can send you to regain your confidence back? haha

Did Rossi check out in the playoffs? My answer is that he may have to a certain extent and I can understand why. he is a sports player. he has a job. any and all players have had doubters and challenges, so just because Rossi didn't want to have 5 million per year and wanted 8 or more - now we have to consider his feelings and "get" why he checked out? F him - he quit on his team. Team comes first, not your ego. And that is what Rossi stood by - his ego, NOT his team. 

If he didn't, he's a bigger man than most of us because we probably would have. If he did check out, he was put in the position to check out by Guerin and Hynes.

again - he bailed on his team - don't put me in the same rank, but if you want to join him in that - go for it. i don't think i'd quit on my team over money. honestly - that is pathetic way of handling yourself. and i think hockey is one of the sports where $s do not pollute players as much as in other sports - but seems like Rossi and you value that more than your team. 

You can quote and BOLD my reply until you're blue in the face, but please don't insult what little intelligence I have left with another ludicrous pile of crap response. i bold the response for clarity purposes and hopefully it is helpful to the original poster, you can stop reading and responding to me after this post

Thank you and good night. astalavista!