Article: The Marco Rossi Disconnect Shows the Downside of "Best Available Player" Drafting

[OldDutchChip]

Let me remind all that 

- Nyquist was a rental and is gone - Enough about him

- Freddy is a utility player that plays hard and scored almost 20 goals this year - yeah he wasn’t good in PO but it’s ok

- Rossi - he was struggling to end the season, during the PO got rightfully demoted and given sheltered role against lighter matchups. His battle level was by far the worst on the team, and by game 5 he full on quit on the team - you can see him being lazy and disengaged. I can guarantee everyone on the team noticed it. Rossi needs to go. He can play well for another team but not this team. 

[MNCountryLife]

15 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

we have Ek, Tkachuk, Kap, Boldy, Marner, Yurov, Nelson, Harty, Foligno Zuccy Trenin MJ (Inevitable!) to ice next year

I kneel at the side of my bed each night and say a little prayer that Nojo is not resigned.  Please dear lord.  Do not let BG sign Nojo.

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

Let me remind all that 

- Nyquist was a rental and is gone - Enough about him

- Freddy is a utility player that plays hard and scored almost 20 goals this year - yeah he wasn’t good in PO but it’s ok

- Rossi - he was struggling to end the season, during the PO got rightfully demoted and given sheltered role against lighter matchups. His battle level was by far the worst on the team, and by game 5 he full on quit on the team - you can see him being lazy and disengaged. I can guarantee everyone on the team noticed it. Rossi needs to go. He can play well for another team but not this team. 

In Game 5, he lazily quit on the team by having three hits and three blocked shots in 11 minutes. He wasn't even engaged enough to get out of the way of opposing shots! Move, you doofus! Those pucks hurt!

[WildNotMild]

43 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Let me remind all that 

- Nyquist was a rental and is gone - Enough about him

- Freddy is a utility player that plays hard and scored almost 20 goals this year - yeah he wasn’t good in PO but it’s ok

- Rossi - he was struggling to end the season, during the PO got rightfully demoted and given sheltered role against lighter matchups. His battle level was by far the worst on the team, and by game 5 he full on quit on the team - you can see him being lazy and disengaged. I can guarantee everyone on the team noticed it. Rossi needs to go. He can play well for another team but not this team. 

Nyquist isn’t big, isn’t mean and doesn’t have grit (the main “knocks” on Rossi), so WTF did Billy trade a 2nd round pick for him.  He also didn’t do anything in the playoffs, but wasn’t demoted.  AND, he definitely cost the Wild a game with his offsides.

Gaudreau isn’t big, isn’t mean and doesn’t have grit (the main “knocks” on Rossi).  He didn’t do anything in the playoffs, but wasn’t demoted.  
 

Rossi scored 2 goals and had an assist in less playing time than either Nyquist or Gaudreau.  The argument that the Wild’s third leading scorer was being accurately used on the 4th line to unlock the wingers’ potential on that line is ridiculous.  Saying that Rossi only scored two goals because of the passes from Trenin is ludicrous and completely negates the logic that Rossi would have benefited from more passes from higher skilled players if he played on a higher line and got more minutes.  Rossi and Gaudreau should have been switched, period.  I would have been fine if Hartman played 2nd line as long as Rossi played 3rd and Gaudreau 4th.
 

If Rossi is traded for a better player (28 or younger, similar points, bigger, meaner, etc.), then great.  If he is shipped out for a mid 30s player for around 7M per with clauses, it is a dumb move by Billy.  I don’t see how the Wild win a trade involving Rossi when Billy has clearly shown he doesn’t like him.  Like I have said before, having to include another 1-2 prospects that are penciled in for next year just creates more holes and problems.

Two years ago, I would’ve said 7M for 8 years for Rossi was crazy.  With the cap increasing like it is, the above deal now would be more like 5M for 8 years a couple of years ago.

Although not likely, maybe Billy has a plan to keep Rossi and wanted to lower Rossi’s negotiating power by saying he played on the 4th line during the playoffs, but this would really be an example of cutting of his nose to spite his face.  So given Billy’s history, maybe this is exactly what happened.

Some folks have been saying forever if the Wild didn’t get to the 2nd round, Kaprizov wouldn’t sign an extension.  I don’t understand how these same folks can argue that playing Gaudreau more minutes and on a higher line than Rossi gave the Wild a better chance to win the series.

[OldDutchChip]

44 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

In Game 5, he lazily quit on the team by having three hits and three blocked shots in 11 minutes. He wasn't even engaged enough to get out of the way of opposing shots! Move, you doofus! Those pucks hurt!

Yeap it was noticeable 

[OldDutchChip]

40 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

Nyquist isn’t big, isn’t mean and doesn’t have grit (the main “knocks” on Rossi), so WTF did Billy trade a 2nd round pick for him.  He also didn’t do anything in the playoffs, but wasn’t demoted.  AND, he definitely cost the Wild a game with his offsides.

Gaudreau isn’t big, isn’t mean and doesn’t have grit (the main “knocks” on Rossi).  He didn’t do anything in the playoffs, but wasn’t demoted.  
 

Rossi scored 2 goals and had an assist in less playing time than either Nyquist or Gaudreau.  The argument that the Wild’s third leading scorer was being accurately used on the 4th line to unlock the wingers’ potential on that line is ridiculous.  Saying that Rossi only scored two goals because of the passes from Trenin is ludicrous and completely negates the logic that Rossi would have benefited from more passes from higher skilled players if he played on a higher line and got more minutes.  Rossi and Gaudreau should have been switched, period.  I would have been fine if Hartman played 2nd line as long as Rossi played 3rd and Gaudreau 4th.
 

If Rossi is traded for a better player (28 or younger, similar points, bigger, meaner, etc.), then great.  If he is shipped out for a mid 30s player for around 7M per with clauses, it is a dumb move by Billy.  I don’t see how the Wild win a trade involving Rossi when Billy has clearly shown he doesn’t like him.  Like I have said before, having to include another 1-2 prospects that are penciled in for next year just creates more holes and problems.

Two years ago, I would’ve said 7M for 8 years for Rossi was crazy.  With the cap increasing like it is, the above deal now would be more like 5M for 8 years a couple of years ago.

Although not likely, maybe Billy has a plan to keep Rossi and wanted to lower Rossi’s negotiating power by saying he played on the 4th line during the playoffs, but this would really be an example of cutting of his nose to spite his face.  So given Billy’s history, maybe this is exactly what happened.

Some folks have been saying forever if the Wild didn’t get to the 2nd round, Kaprizov wouldn’t sign an extension.  I don’t understand how these same folks can argue that playing Gaudreau more minutes and on a higher line than Rossi gave the Wild a better chance to win the series.

They trusted Nyquist and Freddy as much as Rossi, that’s equivalent of full line to hide. The coach did his best in hiding them 😎

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, MNCountryLife said:

Dumba is playing.  Reaves fell to the AHL.

Dumba has not played even one minute. Healthy scratch every game. 

[raithis]

Quote

 

[raithis]

I don't understand where some of you guys are coming from.  The Wild mostly played lines 3 and 4 about the same in the playoffs.

Rossi and Gaudreau took almost the same amount of faceoffs.  Yes, Gaudreau has more time on ice, but he also plays on the PK and Rossi doesn't.  Hartman took a hell of a lot more faceoffs than both of them.  Ek took even more.

Rossi wasn't often part of the powerplay and it was typically the first group.

I don't have more time to go into it, but it seems like people are just looking at total stats and not considering what's for 5v5 and what isn't, or how being on the PK disrupts line changes.  We took a lot of penalties, which shifts who will be getting more ice time each game.

 

[Tony Abbott]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

Yeap it was noticeable 

Even more noticeable than Brock Faber's morbid obesity. 

[0 Stanley Cups]

2 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

A 3yr x 6M would be good.  I would happily keep him at that price. 

I have no doubt that Rossi feels slighted.  He may be willing to sign for less somewhere else just to get a fresh start.  If the bridge is burned you trade him.  Pay no longer matters.  If the bridge is not burned than all options are on the table. 

IMO:  Rossi is not a $7M player.   Overpaying for players is a playbook for mediocrity. 

Rossi put up results this season comparable to anything Parise did with the Wild, and they were willing to overpay him because they were unable to competently draft and develop quality players 13 years ago. 

Wild don't value Rossi with a contract anything over Ek or Boldy's contract, but the salary cap has changed, like it or not.  6M probably would've gotten it done a year ago, but Rossi declining 5x5M bruised BG's ego.  Now Rossi is getting the Cam Talbot treatment.

According to Russo, Rossi was likely playing hurt the last month or two of the season which is why his numbers slide a bit, but he still gutted it out and played 82 for an injury plagued team/season.  Rossi, Boldy, and Freddy were the only players to play 82.  We were better positioned this season to address the injuries than the season prior, however, with an aging roster we can't afford to lose young talent that can sustain the grind of an 82 game season.

[MNCountryLife]

1 hour ago, Patrick said:

Dumba has not played even one minute. Healthy scratch every game. 

I just checked rosters and he was listed.  Obviously I didn't realize he was scratched.  Thanks for the heads up.

[WildNotMild]

28 minutes ago, Tony Abbott said:

Even more noticeable than Brock Faber's morbid obesity. 

I am surprised that Faber still obeys the laws of physics and is able to skate instead of just sinking in place on the ice.  (For those that need it, strong sarcasm intended).

[MNCountryLife]

3 minutes ago, 0 Stanley Cups said:

According to Russo, Rossi was likely playing hurt the last month or two of the season which is why his numbers slide a bit, but he still gutted it out and played 82 for an injury plagued team/season.  Rossi, Boldy, and Freddy were the only players to play 82.  We were better positioned this season to address the injuries than the season prior, however, with an aging roster we can't afford to lose young talent that can sustain the grind of an 82 game season.

I've heard contradicting statements about Rossi being injured.  If he was injured than he shouldn't have been frustrated about getting less ice time and he shouldn't feel slighted by the team.    I realize the cap has gone up.  But that doesn't mean everyone gets or deserves a raise.  Usually the cream of the crop (Kirill) gets the extra dollars first.  Others get the remains.  

Spot on about BG... When BG gets annoyed... players go away.  

We, as fans, only hear the noise when negotiations are ongoing.  Who knows if he will actually sign or not ... and at what value.  $7M just seems high to me.  I would think a team could sign a player equal or better than rossi at $7M.  Is Rossi seriously in our top 3 for forwards on the Wild?

[0 Stanley Cups]

16 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

I've heard contradicting statements about Rossi being injured.  If he was injured than he shouldn't have been frustrated about getting less ice time and he shouldn't feel slighted by the team.    I realize the cap has gone up.  But that doesn't mean everyone gets or deserves a raise.  Usually the cream of the crop (Kirill) gets the extra dollars first.  Others get the remains.  

Spot on about BG... When BG gets annoyed... players go away.  

We, as fans, only hear the noise when negotiations are ongoing.  Who knows if he will actually sign or not ... and at what value.  $7M just seems high to me.  I would think a team could sign a player equal or better than rossi at $7M.  Is Rossi seriously in our top 3 for forwards on the Wild?

7M does seem high right now, but the window for a lower Rossi contract was last offseason.  With the current state of the CBA, is Freddy or JoJo worth 2x Rossi last season?  Is Trenin worth 4x Rossi last season?  Of course not.  With the salary cap increasing for all teams, just wait until July 1 when the UFA window opens, those new contracts are going to be obscene for players past their prime, not a 23 year old.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, raithis said:

I don't understand where some of you guys are coming from.  The Wild mostly played lines 3 and 4 about the same in the playoffs.

Rossi and Gaudreau took almost the same amount of faceoffs.  Yes, Gaudreau has more time on ice, but he also plays on the PK and Rossi doesn't.  Hartman took a hell of a lot more faceoffs than both of them.  Ek took even more.

Rossi wasn't often part of the powerplay and it was typically the first group.

I don't have more time to go into it, but it seems like people are just looking at total stats and not considering what's for 5v5 and what isn't, or how being on the PK disrupts line changes.  We took a lot of penalties, which shifts who will be getting more ice time each game.

 

yup exactly. if you account for PK time then minutes were fairly even distributed among lines 2-4. the complain is generally about where where could have plugged in Rossi. L1 is a no no. and you want to get him away from Eichel and Stone and Karsslon. So he was given time in the bottom 6. mystery and conspiracy solved.

[Pewterschmidt]

24 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

Spot on about BG... When BG gets annoyed... players go away.

My grandad had a name for this type person: Thin Skinned Bully.

The worst kind on the school yard.  When things go south he's the first to turn on the group.  This will be an important 12 months for bill.  I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume he re-sign's 97.  That alone doesn't get this group past round one.  He needs to win at least one hockey trade and get a top 6 needle mover without giving up a current needle mover.  One more top 6 to this group isn't enough though.  I think the group needs two top 6'rs and that's where bill will need to get savvy.  Sending Brodin or Middsy or Fabsy could get it done.

You're move hot shot.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

Even more noticeable than Brock Faber's morbid obesity. 

i'm willing to overlook that if Brock finally puts the the visor down proper

 

[OldDutchChip]

37 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

I am surprised that Faber still obeys the laws of physics and is able to skate instead of just sinking in place on the ice.  (For those that need it, strong sarcasm intended).

you are funny

[OldDutchChip]

12 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

My grandad had a name for this type person: Thin Skinned Bully.

The worst kind on the school yard.  When things go south he's the first to turn on the group.  This will be an important 12 months for bill.  I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume he re-sign's 97.  That alone doesn't get this group past round one.  He needs to win at least one hockey trade and get a top 6 needle mover without giving up a current needle mover.  One more top 6 to this group isn't enough though.  I think the group needs two top 6'rs and that's where bill will need to get savvy.  Sending Brodin or Middsy or Fabsy could get it done.

You're move hot shot.

yeah the top 6 is a must. and what do we lack? we lack size. we lack muscle. we lack compete. i doubt we can get anything of value for Brodin or Midds. 

our current top 6 candidates

Kap, Ek, Boldy, Rossi, Yurov, Zuccy, Harty, Nelson, Ohgren, Foligno

Foligno and Harty will likely drop off to bottom 6 as they should. Nelson is too old so really hoping he is not our main target. Ohgren and Yurov are wild cards. I bet Yurov gets the top 6 though and Ohgren starts in bottom 6 role. you can't really place Zuccy on L4 so maybe he goes down. But in all that shuffle we are still very thin in our top 6 group. 

Trading scraps won't move the needle. So the tears need to dry up and people need to man up! 🍻 Rossi and Faber are your assets. Hell even Zeev is. Use them to make this team better. 

Reminder - We are trying to win with Kap now in his prime. Not when he is 35-38. So that's when you think of trading in potential for now. If Zeev and Rossi gets you Tage Thompson or Brady T - i think you jump on it and go all in on winning now. 

[MNCountryLife]

46 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume he re-sign's 97.  That alone doesn't get this group past round one.  He needs to win at least one hockey trade and get a top 6 needle mover without giving up a current needle mover.  One more top 6 to this group isn't enough though.  I think the group needs two top 6'rs and that's where bill will need to get savvy.

I would consider it a success if he can sign Kirill, keep Rossi, lose Nojo and sign a top 6.  I don't think that makes us a contender.  But it should put us in a good position where a top 6 TDL pickup might just make us a contender.   

[mnhockeyfan03]

I watched a redwings cast that said how frustrated Larkin is with losing.  They are also very high on Rossi.  This is very current and they are open the options.  They also stated how bad their D was this year.  Trade Rossi and Faber for Larkin.

Then go get another top 6 fwd like ehlers and  also Bennett as another center or Nelson if under 5mm to play third line. Hopefully Billy is making the calls abd shopping Faber and spurg to get what we really need. 

[MNCountryLife]

I would shop Spurgeon, Brodin and Mids before I would shop Faber.

[OldDutchChip]

29 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

I would shop Spurgeon, Brodin and Mids before I would shop Faber.

Sure but you have to pay for quality

If You are targeting a top 6 player or even higher (Larkin, Tkachuk, pasta) you need to have an honest offer and that includes two of three of Faber Rossi or Zeev 

 

[Wild for Wild]

My thoughts, spot on. Makes BG and the rest of the draft room seem inept for drafting someone they knew they weren't looking for. But in hind sight, they got away with it. Rossi's production and growth, despite being buried on the bench, has nullified a "bust."