Article: The Marco Rossi Disconnect Shows the Downside of "Best Available Player" Drafting

[Tony Abbott]

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[ArizonaWildFan]

Fantastic and spot on. Useless to try to add my two cents. Thank you!

[Dis-allowed display name]

Rossi is good enough to be a top six player on most teams.  That means he is expendable because we don't like his size even though we picked him knowing his size.

We "fixed" the Rossi "problem" by drafting Stramel, who may or may not turn out to be as good as Rossi. 

I think the Wild should only trade Rossi if they can get equal scoring production because, and I don't know if anyone has heard this, we can't score goals. 

We are currently trying to "grit" our way to victories with one goal per game while the rest of the league is lighting the lamp.  It is like we are playing Jaques hockey 25 years into the franchise.

The last 15 games of playoff hockey, 2 goals won the game twice and the rest had 3 to 5 goals scored by the winner.  We would have lost all 13 out of 15 of those games.

[Patrick]

The mind numbing stupidity of Bill Guerin and many Wild fans is further illustrated when you realize that Danila Yurov is actually 6-8 pounds LIGHTER than Marco Rossi.

The ability to fixate on size DESPITE production really, really reflects poorly on Guerin.  Hopefully he gets fired before he makes a franchise altering mistake.

[Dean]

Great article. I watched that interview with Russo. He was talking about how Billy doesn’t like guys with soft skill . He said the wild think Rossi has soft skill and can’t compete with the speed of the playoffs. That’s an absolute head scratcher! What is fred? The definition of soft skill yet no one can criticize him . They think Rossi was softer than Fred. Heck Fred is still trying to pick himself of the ice he’s been run over and pushed around so much in playoffs.  What’s Jo Jo . He’s soft like charmin yet Russo said Billy might bring him back. I’ve never been a big Rossi fan due to him being undersized. However he proved more than Fred when it comes to toughness and physicality. 
    Judd drafted a bunch of d men that have never made it . A 9 th overall that they will most likely sell at discount . Hes got a bunch more of undersized wings and centers that seem like the soft skill type. So what are they doing? Size with skill is more valuable, yet we draft small and soft. 
Even  if Judd hits on some guys there development is non existent!  Iowa straight up sucks like it always has . Yet Billy is sticking to his guns with a bad coach and rookie gm for Iowa. So they can send there top prospects down there to learn how to lose. John Hynes isn’t a good coach just like the Iowa coach. There is not any type of quality development. None of Billy’s guys have made it with his development!  Prospect rating means nothing  if you can’t develop. 

[Citizen Strife]

*insert potential talks between unnamed people that may or may not be real.  This is done for satirical purposes*

 

Logical thinker: So, about the center position.  We've got Ek with Kap and Boldy.  What do we do about 2C or 3C?  Does that guy who scored on the 4th line get another chance, despite scoring more than the other guys we played?

Emotional thinker: FUCK NO, HE WON"T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.  HE WANTS TOO MUCH MONEY!

 

Logical thinker: "But the cap is going up.  A LOT of people are going to be signed for the same amount of money.  Why don't we just play Rossi, Yurov, etc. at wing if one proves to be better?  We can just slowly dump contracts and give out money of the new guys do what Rossi did?

Emotional thinker: "What?  What do you think we're paying Hartman and Gaudreau for? They already play center and can go to wing anyway...wait."

 

Logical thinker: Ok.  But do we know if Yurov, Stramel, or etc. are better centers?  How many points have they scored, how is their defense?  Have they played in the NHL?

Emotional thinker: But they can do what Rossi did for free.  I mean, Rossi did it already.  How hard can that be?

 

Logical thinker: So, what you're saying is you want to pay $8m to a 35 year old, and maybe another $8m to a winger, when you could pay $7-8m to a 23 year old who may get better?

Emotional thinker: BUT HE SMALL!  We got some guys from Minnesota that want money.  It worked out last time didn't it?

 

Logical thinker: Ok...ok.  You're convinced he's done.  He won't sign.  Any idea what he will go for in a trade?

Emotional thinker: uh...a first and a third?

Logical thinker: OH FOR FUCK, WHY"D YOU DRAFT HIM THEN?

Emotional thinker: Another guy drafted him not me.  I didn't see the stat sheet on the guy's physical until the day after.  He looks like the guy who pumps my gas.

 

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Citizen Strife

[OldDutchChip]

only 157 more articles left about Rossi’s greatness! please share w all GMs. Especially OTT

Bye Rossi!

😜

[raithis]

Quote

It's been five years since that draft. Five years of development for Rossi, and five years of the organization pouring resources into him, only to be on the verge of selling him at a discount.

Of course, it seems rather obvious that they have been trying to move him since last off-season, but didn't have the cap space left to maneuver, especially after people started getting hurt and it didn't leave us much to work with. 

Prior to that they couldn't do much because it took him so long to recover and get back to where he was because of the myocarditis.  It wasn't until last year that he really showed he was a capable NHLer.

So, yes, they put 5 years into him, but a significant portion of that time was out of the Wild's control - and there was a lot of limitations to what they could realistically get for him during most of the rest of that time.

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, Dean said:

Even  if Judd hits on some guys there development is non existent!  Iowa straight up sucks like it always has . Yet Billy is sticking to his guns with a bad coach and rookie gm for Iowa. So they can send there top prospects down there to learn how to lose. John Hynes isn’t a good coach just like the Iowa coach. There is not any type of quality development. None of Billy’s guys have made it with his development!  Prospect rating means nothing  if you can’t develop. 

Billy G is running a country club for his buddies.

[Burnt Toast]

I don’t think the Wild have had a problem with drafting the best player available over need. I say that because they’ve needed an upgrade at EVERY position except Left Wing. Goalie, right shot D, center, puck moving offense D, skilled scoring, even a big middle to bottom 6 center. Now that they’ve made it through the S&P contracts they are looking around at the roster and trying to figure out what is most important to them and if and when it can be addressed. My opinion is they want to add a really good playoff caliber player. Vegas got JE. Florida got MT. Dallas hasn’t proven anything yet but they got Rant. If and when the Wild can pull that off and still retain solid depth they’ll have accomplished a solid rebuild on the fly. Trading excellent players that are drafted and developed is part of the process. 

[FredJohnson]

15 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Billy G is running a country club for his buddies.

GMBG = GMRS?

[OldDutchChip]

59 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

*insert potential talks between unnamed people that may or may not be real.  This is done for satirical purposes*

 

Logical thinker: So, about the center position.  We've got Ek with Kap and Boldy.  What do we do about 2C or 3C?  Does that guy who scored on the 4th line get another chance, despite scoring more than the other guys we played?

Emotional thinker: FUCK NO, HE WON"T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER.  HE WANTS TOO MUCH MONEY!

 

Logical thinker: "But the cap is going up.  A LOT of people are going to be signed for the same amount of money.  Why don't we just play Rossi, Yurov, etc. at wing if one proves to be better?  We can just slowly dump contracts and give out money of the new guys do what Rossi did?

Emotional thinker: "What?  What do you think we're paying Hartman and Gaudreau for? They already play center and can go to wing anyway...wait."

 

Logical thinker: Ok.  But do we know if Yurov, Stramel, or etc. are better centers?  How many points have they scored, how is their defense?  Have they played in the NHL?

Emotional thinker: But they can do what Rossi did for free.  I mean, Rossi did it already.  How hard can that be?

 

Logical thinker: So, what you're saying is you want to pay $8m to a 35 year old, and maybe another $8m to a winger, when you could pay $7-8m to a 23 year old who may get better?

Emotional thinker: BUT HE SMALL!  We got some guys from Minnesota that want money.  It worked out last time didn't it?

 

Logical thinker: Ok...ok.  You're convinced he's done.  He won't sign.  Any idea what he will go for in a trade?

Emotional thinker: uh...a first and a third?

Logical thinker: OH FOR FUCK, WHY"D YOU DRAFT HIM THEN?

Emotional thinker: Another guy drafted him not me.  I didn't see the stat sheet on the guy's physical until the day after.  He looks like the guy who pumps my gas.

 

 

 

So, what you're saying is you want to pay $8m to a 35 year old, and maybe another $8m to a winger, when you could pay $7-8m to a 23 year old who may get better?

can we do neither? And instead look for a way to better construct our top 6 with balanced attack? These extremes are unnecessary. Rossi does not fit our core top 6 and has enough value to maybe draw interest from another team and both teams can come out with good package

[Dis-allowed display name]

Here is a thought......every team has guys that are under the league average size.  If you think about it, half the league is below the average size., the other half is above the average size.  

It would seem reasonable to think that a) a smaller than average player can still be successful and b) a team with some undersized players can be successful.

The kid is 23 and has been successful already.  

The thought that "he is not our optimal player" is different from "we need to get rid of him, even if it means his replacement is not as good a player."  Not every player is "optimal" but some are damn good despite that. 

If you can find somebody better, all for it.  I am not so sure they will if history is a guide.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Dis-allowed display name

[MNCountryLife]

How many players have we lost for various reasons that are still playing today in the POs.

Nino N, Duhaime, Mikael Granlund, Sam Steel, Matt Dumba, Klingberg, Reaves, Nico Sturm, Kulikov, Tyson Jost, Brent Burns.  

I would happily take Granlund, Sturm and Burns back... Maybe Nino.  I bring this up because Rossi is going to have a solid career and he will make a splash in the playoffs.  He is still improving and only 23 YO.  The only question is the Pay.  Personally I like a Bridge deal for 2 years.

[Patrick]

2 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

How many players have we lost for various reasons that are still playing today in the POs.

Nino N, Duhaime, Mikael Granlund, Sam Steel, Matt Dumba, Klingberg, Reaves, Nico Sturm, Kulikov, Tyson Jost, Brent Burns.  

Have Dumba or Reaves actually been on the ice though?

[Beast]

It sounds more like a problem with the prospect evaluation and/or development than with the best player available strategy.  If the guy can’t play playoff hockey, sounds like you didn’t draft the best player available.

Drafting Stramel doesn’t fix any disconnect.  They still probably could have had him in a later round.  He projects as a bottom six player.  They likely could’ve taken best player available (Perrault, etc.) AND gotten Stramel.  We’ll never know, but it sure looks that way.

Also, when you take these guys, some are 3-4-5 years away from being a meaningful contributor.  If ever.  How can you possibly know the needs of your team.  And why would you pick a 4th liner as the position you’re going to gamble on in the 1st round?  

If you have a surplus at a particular high skill position, you can make trades for established players or prospects that fit the role you need.  High end skill guys are worth more than 4th line centers.  Create value and work from there.  Don’t try to fit a square peg in a round hole, and don’t overthink it.  

 

[MacGyver]

4 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Rossi does not fit our core top 6 and has enough value to maybe draw interest from another team and both teams can come out with good package

I agree with this but what bothers me here is Billy does not see enough value in Rossi to keep him on the team. When Billy wants someone gone it usually does not take very long. He can be impatient and takes the first "fair" offer. If you do not see value in someone it's hard to get value in return.  Rossi is as good as gone but I think what we get in return is going to be underwhelming and it may be a net loss. 

If it's a package deal with say a Faber or someone who Billy actually values it may be a needle mover but I don't see Billy doing that. 

[OldDutchChip]

8 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

I agree with this but what bothers me here is Billy does not see enough value in Rossi to keep him on the team. When Billy wants someone gone it usually does not take very long. He can be impatient and takes the first "fair" offer. If you do not see value in someone it's hard to get value in return.  Rossi is as good as gone but I think what we get in return is going to be underwhelming and it may be a net loss. 

If it's a package deal with say a Faber or someone who Billy actually values it may be a needle mover but I don't see Billy doing that. 

what bothers me here is Billy does not see enough value in Rossi to keep him on the team. When Billy wants someone gone it usually does not take very long. He can be impatient and takes the first "fair" offer. If you do not see value in someone it's hard to get value in return.  Rossi is as good as gone but I think what we get in return is going to be underwhelming and it may be a net loss. 

very true

but maybe bill will surprise us all when his elaborate plan (and very secretive, one no one seen coming!)  is revealed and we have Ek, Tkachuk, Kap, Boldy, Marner, Yurov, Nelson, Harty, Foligno Zuccy Trenin MJ (Inevitable!) to ice next year! 😆

 

[WildNotMild]

Granlund with a hat trick.  Interesting since he isn’t mean, tall, and/or heavy.  His coach and GM must be stupid for not restricting his minutes by placing him on the 4th line to unlock 4th line players potential or to drive down his value if he doesn’t fit the team’s plans for next year.  Oh wait … maybe they are interested in scoring more goals and playing their most skilled players more to do just that and win multiple series.
 

Again, I think GMBG will trade Rossi away.  In another classic Billy move, he and Hynes decreased his trade value by having him play 4th line in the playoffs and telegraphing that he wants him gone.  I am sure he will get fair value of an older vet that will want the same or more money with too long of term and clauses.

If the Wild need more size and grit in the top 6, why was Nyquist played in the top 6 with Zuccy and Gaudreau?  Gaudreau wasn’t protecting either of his wingers.  This inconsistent and circular argument depending on what player is discussed is ludicrous.
 

But what do I know, Yurov who is more slightly built than Rossi should be able to immediately slot in and be better than Rossi.  It isn’t like Yurov has had any injuries the last two years and it isn’t like Rossi has played every single game the last two years.  Height was also a magical saving rookie.  (Heavy sarcasm for this entire paragraph).

Trade rumors have other teams interested in Rossi, but avoiding offer sheets and likely lowballing the Wild since it is no secret the team doesn’t want him.

[Enforceror]

50 minutes ago, WildNotMild said:

Granlund with a hat trick.  Interesting since he isn’t mean, tall, and/or heavy.  His coach and GM must be stupid for not restricting his minutes by placing him on the 4th line to unlock 4th line players potential or to drive down his value if he doesn’t fit the team’s plans for next year.  Oh wait … maybe they are interested in scoring more goals and playing their most skilled players more to do just that and win multiple series.
 

Again, I think GMBG will trade Rossi away.  In another classic Billy move, he and Hynes decreased his trade value by having him play 4th line in the playoffs and telegraphing that he wants him gone.  I am sure he will get fair value of an older vet that will want the same or more money with too long of term and clauses.

If the Wild need more size and grit in the top 6, why was Nyquist played in the top 6 with Zuccy and Gaudreau?  Gaudreau wasn’t protecting either of his wingers.  This inconsistent and circular argument depending on what player is discussed is ludicrous.
 

But what do I know, Yurov who is more slightly built than Rossi should be able to immediately slot in and be better than Rossi.  It isn’t like Yurov has had any injuries the last two years and it isn’t like Rossi has played every single game the last two years.  Height was also a magical saving rookie.  (Heavy sarcasm for this entire paragraph).

Trade rumors have other teams interested in Rossi, but avoiding offer sheets and likely lowballing the Wild since it is no secret the team doesn’t want him.

It's so obvious it makes me feel like we're all missing something. 

[Need4speed99]

What can we do? The wild have the holy trinity of idiots running this team.

They keep doing the same things and ending in mediocrity... as long as fans are continuing to be in the stands, liepold won't care.

Getting rid of rossi (and it WILL be at a loss) is stupid. But hey we need more size, not scoring, to win.

Edited 13 minutes ago by Need4speed99