Article: The Marco Rossi Madness Has To End

[Tony Abbott]

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[Scalptrash]

The Wild should fire Hines immediately and hire Mike Sullivan TODAY. Not because Hines is doing a horrible job, but he doesn't have nearly the same experience or pedigree. The Wild desperately need a head coach who has won Stanley Cup championships. And Sullivan is only 57 years old.

I wish I was joking, but the Wild, other than Lemaire, have NEVER had one. Same goes for the GM. Hire someone that knows WTF they are doing.

[SkolWild73]

Love the article Tony.  I will add that in his limited time on  the ice in five on five with the fourth line, no goals have been scored against either.  

[Enforceror]

[Protec]

Fans have no problem tracking statlines but the defensive side of the game in the playoffs and at other times during the season have confirmed the Wild brass have doubts on Rossi. 

This IS surprising because they have no problem playing NoJo. 

It's not really up to us and it's part of the bigger picture puzzle that is the draft when they selected Rossi instead of Lundell or Mercer. Why pick the guy then? BPA, I suppose? That means they potentially thought, we'll trade him later? 

I turned the corner on doubting Rossi would be a healthy NHL player with similar abilities to what he showed in junior but it's come down to trust and pros/cons to the coaching staff. It's not easy to understand why MN doesn't see that line as balanced with big wings and a scorer/playmaker but the writing is on the wall. MN is a copycat team that wants to be Vegas, Florida, Dallas, or Colorado with size and speed. Two things Rossi lacks.

I think he'll find his place but the current situation has change of scenery written all over it. 

[OldDutchChip]

[Protec]

25 minutes ago, Scalptrash said:

The Wild should fire Hines immediately and hire Mike Sullivan TODAY. Not because Hines is doing a horrible job, but he doesn't have nearly the same experience or pedigree. The Wild desperately need a head coach who has won Stanley Cup championships. And Sullivan is only 57 years old.

I wish I was joking, but the Wild, other than Lemaire, have NEVER had one. Same goes for the GM. Hire someone that knows WTF they are doing.

Agree at least 50%. Hynes hasn't shit the bed like Dean in the playoffs so there's that. He's given no easy reasons to be canned but I totally agree MN needs a big-time coach. Hopefully Hynes can elevate his game too for this post-season. Not giving Rossi much of a chance and shortening the Wild's bench in Round 1 isn't wise IMO. This is where the history, GM, or Owner are a problem. MN needs to pioneer a new narrative, not chase old demons if you asked me. So desperate to win a series, they're showing their hand and likely giving the next opponent the playbook. 

If the Wild don't have the depth to go the distance and win 16 games, what's the difference? The Cup is the goal right Billy? So we'll see I guess. Is Rossi gonna be better all around against EDM or LA??? Can you pin losses on him directly cause a few other players have taken their lumps too. NoJo out hurt when the going gets tough, etc...

[Burnt Toast]

I try to find “Oh that makes sense” reasoning behind Wild Management decisions. I know they want to win. I can kinda understand how playing with the fourth line could work, but not at the reduced minutes. We’ve talked about secondary scoring and guys stepping up in the playoffs, Rossi is one of those guys. For now I will remain puzzled. 

[Citizen Strife]

[greg]

I've never understood Wild management in their continued disdain for Rossi.  While he is no superstar he certainly performs and produced better than some of the stuffs on the team signed to no trade deals.  And as for Hynes:  I've never really had a great feeling for him.  Just his playoff record alone is bad.  Guerin and Hynes have made very strange decisions regarding player personnel.  Rossi should be at least on the third line and Guedrew on 4th.  

[OldDutchChip]

This madness definitely needs to end. What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? Just finally state what is it that you want instead of crying about the poor guy. 

Personally, i think his use is perfectly fine. If he found some chemistry with Trenin and Braz, and the line is scoring - this is great news -  balance in scoring is a good thing. There is still issue with him being timid and a liability in other non-scoring areas of the ice - so having Trenin and Braz offsets that somewhat, and the sheltered minutes keep him (a) fresh and (b) should give him favorable matchups to take advantage of that. 

I suppose if you really want to make a change - you can move Nyquil or Freddy down - but it ruins that balance. Freddy, Trenin and Braz would be a molasses type of a line that would add nothing. And we need as much offense as possible against Vegas. So why do that? Or you can plug Rossi with Harty and Zuccy - which also is a head scratcher given how well harty is playing with Foligno. 

This seems like an emotional over rational obsession that has gone on for far too long. The coach (believe it or not) does know a thing or two and likely has more info on Rossi when he determine the best fit. 

But back to my questions - 

What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? What?

[SkolWild73]

16 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

This madness definitely needs to end. What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? Just finally state what is it that you want instead of crying about the poor guy. 

Personally, i think his use is perfectly fine. If he found some chemistry with Trenin and Braz, and the line is scoring - this is great news -  balance in scoring is a good thing. There is still issue with him being timid and a liability in other non-scoring areas of the ice - so having Trenin and Braz offsets that somewhat, and the sheltered minutes keep him (a) fresh and (b) should give him favorable matchups to take advantage of that. 

I suppose if you really want to make a change - you can move Nyquil or Freddy down - but it ruins that balance. Freddy, Trenin and Braz would be a molasses type of a line that would add nothing. And we need as much offense as possible against Vegas. So why do that? Or you can plug Rossi with Harty and Zuccy - which also is a head scratcher given how well harty is playing with Foligno. 

This seems like an emotional over rational obsession that has gone on for far too long. The coach (believe it or not) does know a thing or two and likely has more info on Rossi when he determine the best fit. 

But back to my questions - 

What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? What?

I thought the article was pretty clear in stating for more scoring in the playoffs.

[SkolWild73]

20 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

This madness definitely needs to end. What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? Just finally state what is it that you want instead of crying about the poor guy. 

Personally, i think his use is perfectly fine. If he found some chemistry with Trenin and Braz, and the line is scoring - this is great news -  balance in scoring is a good thing. There is still issue with him being timid and a liability in other non-scoring areas of the ice - so having Trenin and Braz offsets that somewhat, and the sheltered minutes keep him (a) fresh and (b) should give him favorable matchups to take advantage of that. 

I suppose if you really want to make a change - you can move Nyquil or Freddy down - but it ruins that balance. Freddy, Trenin and Braz would be a molasses type of a line that would add nothing. And we need as much offense as possible against Vegas. So why do that? Or you can plug Rossi with Harty and Zuccy - which also is a head scratcher given how well harty is playing with Foligno. 

This seems like an emotional over rational obsession that has gone on for far too long. The coach (believe it or not) does know a thing or two and likely has more info on Rossi when he determine the best fit. 

But back to my questions - 

What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? What?

I also find it funny that you mention the coach knows a thing or two about where to play him when only a few days ago you said we needed to bench Braz and have made similar posts about other players throughout the year.  Did the coach not know a thing or two or have more info than you at that point?

[Citizen Strife]

It's pretty obvious.  Rossi staying on the team so Ek isn't the only scoring center option half the time.  I ran the numbers a few weeks ago and $6.5m-7.5m was projection adjusted Ek money.  They wanted proof that he can produce.  Well, he has.  You wanted proof he can score against the best teams (Florida, Tampa, Vegas, etc), he has.  Bigger guys, faster guys, can he find open ice and score?  He has.

I mean, here's a list at or around Rossi's production.  Very few, if any, are on the block.  There is one I will mention, but I will also mention the money he made and what it probably takes to keep him.  I'll keep it to +- 3 points so it doesn't get insane here.

Forwards 3 points above or below Rossi at 60 - Regular Season *Adjusted for 70+ games*

Holloway, Michkov, Celebrini, Ehlers*, Schmaltz, Donato, Huberdeau, Zibanejad, Hertl (someone he's directly competing against), Villardi, McCann, Fiala, Guenther, Cirelli, Trochek, Kane, Knies, Eklund, Teravainen, Geekie, Horvat, McMichael, Johnson, Buchnevich

Forwards at Rossi's point total - Playoffs

Moose, Schmidt, Hirscher, Knies, Perry, B. Tkachuk (OMG ITS THAT GUY EVERYONE WANTS), Jarvis, Byfield, Giroux, +10 or so more at 3.

I'll make my point in a different post.  This one is kinda messy already.

[Citizen Strife]

Rossi has proven in regular season AND the playoffs that he's neck and neck in production with people most teams would be laughed at for ever off-loading.  Maybe he will keep the production, maybe he won't, but fucking hell.  He's on par with guys making $6, 7, 8m in some cases before the crazy jump in salary cap.  Doing so on a team where only Kaprizov and Boldy really outstrip production in a defense first offense.  Everyone else on the team brings something else, sure.  You can't win just on "points."

But I'm sorry if the team is just not and was never convinced Rossi going to do anything meriting $6-8m being pretty standard market value for what he's giving you.  You could say Ehlers MIGHT be a replacement.  But he's a UFA.  He might ask for $9m for all we know.  If Rossi gets sunk either by too little years or too little money, that's on both the team and the agent for not finding a way to keep a player who is performing how he should.

What I'm saying is shit or get off the pot.  If you don't see him as 1C ever, no one is saying he has to be.  But he's proving as productive as some highly touted people, so keep him on the fucking team already.

*Excuse my language.  As I post earlier.  I am so tired*

Edited 1 hour ago by Citizen Strife

[OldDutchChip]

18 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I also find it funny that you mention the coach knows a thing or two about where to play him when only a few days ago you said we needed to bench Braz and have made similar posts about other players throughout the year.  Did the coach not know a thing or two or have more info than you at that point?

i also find it funny that you skip over the main point / question in my response and instead throw out a question of your own....which leads one away from the point. smart i guess, but let me reask - 

What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? 

as to your Q - i still feel that Braz is trash. he did some ok thinks but mostly the line is carried by Trenin - he is the motor of L4. 

[SkolWild73]

23 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i also find it funny that you skip over the main point / question in my response and instead throw out a question of your own....which leads one away from the point. smart i guess, but let me reask - 

What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? 

as to your Q - i still feel that Braz is trash. he did some ok thinks but mostly the line is carried by Trenin - he is the motor of L4. 

I answered your question as to what was the main point as to what we wanted out of the coach.  I mentioned in the first post that I thought the article was clear in its point to play him more for more scoring in the playoffs.  I didn’t answer your second or third question in your post because I didn’t see that as the point of the article. 

 No where in the article does in mention that we should pay him first c money or ten million a year.  It says we should play him now for playoffs.
 

 

Edited 49 minutes ago by SkolWild73

[OldDutchChip]

6 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Rossi has proven in regular season AND the playoffs that he's neck and neck in production with people most teams would be laughed at for ever off-loading.  Maybe he will keep the production, maybe he won't, but fucking hell.  He's on par with guys making $6, 7, 8m in some cases before the crazy jump in salary cap.  Doing so on a team where only Kaprizov and Boldy really outstrip production in a defense first offense.  Everyone else on the team brings something else, sure.  You can't win just on "points."

But I'm sorry if the team is just not and was never convinced Rossi going to do anything meriting $6-8m being pretty standard market value for what he's giving you.  You could say Ehlers MIGHT be a replacement.  But he's a UFA.  He might ask for $9m for all we know.  If Rossi gets sunk either by too little years or too little money, that's on both the team and the agent for not finding a way to keep a player who is performing how he should.

i wouldn't be oppose to giving him 6.5 to 7, maybe even 8, because as you've said - there is an upcoming salary increase and he did deliver in the regular season with a solid 60 pt season.

if he doesn't live up to the hype, you can still play him on bottom 6 and he can fill in up top when needed (7mm is not too bad considering where the cap is going) BUT to pay more than that - you need certainty that he is worth it - and he hasn't provided that at this point

he did have a very concerning slip to end the season that brought all the old issues/concerns to the forefront. can he lead a line? can he handle the physical part of the game as the season gets into the stretch run and PO? is he a top 6 C a Wing? do you want to tie big money into smaller finesse player?

these are valid concerns and ones that are not just mine - they are concerns from the wild leadership. as you've said - these type of players do not get dropped. they get signed. so there is more to this.

let's not forget - Rossi ended March/April with 9 pts over the 22 game period and played some of the worse hockey i've seen him play in over a year. his stock was all over the place this year. at one point it seemed he was destined to be the next big contract league wide and then he stunk (25 game sample of just bad play)....and now same uncertainty is playing out in PO - he stunk in G1-2 but then he did score a goal in consecutive games. judging solely by goals - one can argue his value is closer to 10 (but then so is Trenin's! haha), but looking at the full package - i think you better to pass on shelling out that much and instead use him  as a trade chip.

we have been over zealous in our signings lately and often times have already acted before a more appealing scenario presents itself......i think this should be a very carefully planned out transaction and one that takes a very smart, patient (no more fair offers or friendly dealings) and tactical approach so that you can maximize your team success going forward. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

Just personally, what I want is our front office to quite their obsession with size and give Rossi a reasonable offer. We will need to overpay for anyone in free agency and, if we honest with ourselves, sell him for a larger guy who puts up less points. If we got him on a 7 by 7 it will be a steal.

Some things to keep in mind about Rossi;

He had a similar point total to Boldy in his first two years. 40 in his first year and 60 in his second. 

He has played very well defensively this year, despite his streakiness on point getting. 

He lost a year of development so is a year behind what his age indicates.

He seems extremely coachable and willing to go the extra mile for what the team asks of him.

The wild have only had 5-6 60 point centers in their history! Rolston, Granlund, Staal, Eriksson Ek, Hartman and Koivu. Of those, we only drafted Koivu and Eriksson Ek.

So we want to trade the third best center we have ever developed and easily a top 10 center in our franchise history because we don't like his size? There are not that many guys who have a 60pt season their second full year, there are even less UFA's with a 60pt season, let alone in their second season. Rossi still has possible upside to get even better while most the UFA's are on the downward side of the hill.

Gifted and skilled centers don't grow on trees. Let's stop shooting ourselves in the foot Billy!

 

[OldDutchChip]

6 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I answered your question as to what was the main point as to what we wanted out of the coach.  I mentioned in the first post that I thought the article was clear in its point to play him more for more scoring in the playoffs.  I didn’t answer your second or third question in your post because I didn’t see that as the point of the article. 

 No where in the article does in mention that we should pay him first c money or ten million a year.  It says we should play him now for playoffs.
 

 

we are playing him now in the PO. and we are playing him as much as he deserves. 

if you don't want to indicate a price - that's fine. 

[SkolWild73]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

we are playing him now in the PO. and we are playing him as much as he deserves. 

if you don't want to indicate a price - that's fine. 

I didn’t because the article said nothing  about that. The main point of the article is to get Rossi more playing time based on his per 60 numbers. You are the one throwing out 1c money and 9-10 m a year, which the article did not state.   
 

But if you must know, I have said before 6.5- 7.5, depending on term.  But doesn’t really matter what I think.  Up to the GM

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I didn’t because the article said nothing  about that. The main point of the article is to get Rossi more playing time based on his per 60 numbers. You are the one throwing out 1c money and 9-10 m a year, which the article did not state.   
 

But if you must know, I have said before 6.5- 7.5, depending on term.  But doesn’t really matter what I think.  Up to the GM

the constant complain is that he was is not being given a fair offer and is unfairly played on 4L. to your fair offer - i actually agree - and it seems fair for both sides. but if he is looking at 9-10 - he is delusional. 

his numbers to end the year were 9 pts in 22 games. his output and contribution was suffering. yes he scored two goals. but you have to be a bit less biased with the stat worth and look at his full play. he is still playing sheltered minutes for a reason. which is actually not a bad thing - you give him a chance to contribute as he is fresh and is up against a more manageable opponent. 

do we want to line him up against Stone or Eichel? or maybe have Pietrangelo and Hague run him until he is injured? or maybe it's a safer way to put him with the two giants and let them be under the radar for as long as possible? yeap - i think there is logic to that. 

but anyways - 6.5-7 is fine. but i would wait and see what the options are. again - brady's team will get eliminated soon - be on the lookout and have an offer ready just in case. you don't want to give Rossi 9 with a NMC and then find out Brady was traded.....i know i know - it's a hypothetical/no-way-in-hell-for-us-wild-fans....but still - it's team success - not individual - look at all scenarios and don't jump to handcuff yourself. 

[SkolWild73]

1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

the constant complain is that he was is not being given a fair offer and is unfairly played on 4L. to your fair offer - i actually agree - and it seems fair for both sides. but if he is looking at 9-10 - he is delusional. 

his numbers to end the year were 9 pts in 22 games. his output and contribution was suffering. yes he scored two goals. but you have to be a bit less biased with the stat worth and look at his full play. he is still playing sheltered minutes for a reason. which is actually not a bad thing - you give him a chance to contribute as he is fresh and is up against a more manageable opponent. 

do we want to line him up against Stone or Eichel? or maybe have Pietrangelo and Hague run him until he is injured? or maybe it's a safer way to put him with the two giants and let them be under the radar for as long as possible? yeap - i think there is logic to that. 

but anyways - 6.5-7 is fine. but i would wait and see what the options are. again - brady's team will get eliminated soon - be on the lookout and have an offer ready just in case. you don't want to give Rossi 9 with a NMC and then find out Brady was traded.....i know i know - it's a hypothetical/no-way-in-hell-for-us-wild-fans....but still - it's team success - not individual - look at all scenarios and don't jump to handcuff yourself. 

From what I have heard, we offered 5 for 5 and he wanted 7.5.  I still think they settle around the 6.75 mark.  No one is going to offer over 6.87 and risk losing a 1st, 2nd and 3rd and I think we match anything under that.  We own his rights so really do not have to trade him.  Just wish we would do the right thing and get him signed.  To me Boldy’s contract would be perfect.  It is already a steal of a contract.

 

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, SkolWild73 said:

From what I have heard, we offered 5 for 5 and he wanted 7.5.  I still think they settle around the 6.75 mark.  No one is going to offer over 6.87 and risk losing a 1st, 2nd and 3rd and I think we match anything under that.  We own his rights so really do not have to trade him.  Just wish we would do the right thing and get him signed.  To me Boldy’s contract would be perfect.  It is already a steal of a contract.

 

i agree with that thinking and money seems fine, but i do also understand the hesitation from billy. and i think you are a bit low with projections - rossi's camp knows the cap is rising and they can leverage stats to back up his claim to 9 million. yes that high. and he is NOT worth that. maybe sharks or hawks bite on him and offer sheet him? we get picks and use them for trade or use Rossi for trade? regardless - i do think this is Rossi's last year with us 

[joebou15]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

This madness definitely needs to end. What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? Just finally state what is it that you want instead of crying about the poor guy. 

Personally, i think his use is perfectly fine. If he found some chemistry with Trenin and Braz, and the line is scoring - this is great news -  balance in scoring is a good thing. There is still issue with him being timid and a liability in other non-scoring areas of the ice - so having Trenin and Braz offsets that somewhat, and the sheltered minutes keep him (a) fresh and (b) should give him favorable matchups to take advantage of that. 

I suppose if you really want to make a change - you can move Nyquil or Freddy down - but it ruins that balance. Freddy, Trenin and Braz would be a molasses type of a line that would add nothing. And we need as much offense as possible against Vegas. So why do that? Or you can plug Rossi with Harty and Zuccy - which also is a head scratcher given how well harty is playing with Foligno. 

This seems like an emotional over rational obsession that has gone on for far too long. The coach (believe it or not) does know a thing or two and likely has more info on Rossi when he determine the best fit. 

But back to my questions - 

What is the point here? What do you and all the fan-boys want out of the  coach and GM/Owner? Do you want him to play top line and be given a long-term contract of around 9-10 mil? What?

I want to win a Stanley Cup! And leaving a player that has scored 24 goals and 60 points over the 82 game regular season in lieu for guys that haven't offered that kind of stat line is the head scratcher.

The Wild needed 1 of 2 things to win Game 4. They needed a great 3rd period, but we're out-scored 2-1 in the frame. Just one more goal could have ended it. Or, fresh legs in OT. Hynes shortened his bench and leaned on guys that already played 25 minutes in the game against a team that had it's stars playing significantly fewer minutes. 

What Hynes did was cut his nose to spite his face. He had tired legs, and kept a player that could have spot in a few times throughout the 3rd period or OT and provided a jump, and some goal scoring skill on the bench.

So when you ask us, "what do you want?" I want to fucking win. And these decisions are not what winning organizations do.