Article: Marco Rossi Might Have Just Saved the Wild's Season

[Neutral Zone Dangles]

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

I don't really know what "drives play" mean to be fair.  People are probably just looking for reasons to hate him so "Oh no, he's not worth $7-8m."

All I really care about is, "he's got 60 pts, clutch, and is defensively responsible (+6)." so what's the issue here?

The issue is he’s a center that doesn’t win faceoffs. He has 8 pts in the last 20 games and is -11 during that stretch.  He was a +20 earlier in the season as well. So to be fair, he isn’t being defensively responsible. Consistency is not there offensively or defensively. 

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

I don't really know what "drives play" mean to be fair.

97 is a player who drives the play and CREATES offense from nothing.  We are watching Boldy show flashes of driving the play.  Count how many turnovers he creates with his great stick AND THEN he creates a chance for himself or a teammate in the o-zone.  Rossi has proven he can deliver in clutch moments which is great but I believe he's more Robin than Batman right now.  Maybe in a few years he becomes more Batman (play driver).

[Tony Abbott]

2 hours ago, Trade Deadline Hero said:

He’s our first line center right now and doesn’t win faceoffs. That’s the issue.

Look up Nathan MacKinnon's career faceoff percentage and get back to me. 

[SkolWild73]

4 hours ago, Trade Deadline Hero said:

He’s our first line center right now and doesn’t win faceoffs. That’s the issue.

He wins at the same rate as Ek at 46.9%.  Improved by over 2% linings coed last year.  And to Tony’s point, MacKinnon is a career 46.3%

Edited April 8 by SkolWild73

[Citizen Strife]

Hartman of all people won a playoff game against Dallas.  I think the Wild stand better chance having Ek, Rossi, and Gaudreau than Gaudreau, Hartman, Shore, etc. down the middle.  I'm not going to label anyone a playoff no-show unless that actually happens.  Faber and Rossi may fall on their faces or be the reason it stays close.

The main thing is clinching, and the Wild haven't done that quite yet.  I'll take Rossi getting a "lucky" goal over Dallas stumping the Wild again.  Lord knows that happens enough.

Edited April 8 by Citizen Strife

[SkolWild73]

Can’t edit.  Previous post was supposed to say since last year, not linings coed….

[SkolWild73]

2 hours ago, Neutral Zone Dangles said:

The issue is he’s a center that doesn’t win faceoffs. He has 8 pts in the last 20 games and is -11 during that stretch.  He was a +20 earlier in the season as well. So to be fair, he isn’t being defensively responsible. Consistency is not there offensively or defensively. 

I think you can pick apart sections of a season of a lot of players and find hot and cold or consistent and inconsistent play.  For example, B, Tkachuk had a 20 game stretch prior to 4 nations with 9 points and a minus 5 rating.

[AKwildkraken]

1 hour ago, Tony Abbott said:

Look up Nathan MacKinnon's career faceoff percentage and get back to me. 

Too bad Rossi isn't in contention of being the MVP, again.  

That being said, I do believe faceoffs aren't everything and I like Rossi's growth this season.  I think the puck to the side of the knee was/is still affecting his play as that can take a couple of weeks to heal.  

[Trade Deadline Hero]

2 hours ago, Tony Abbott said:

Look up Nathan MacKinnon's career faceoff percentage and get back to me. 

lol, are you actually trying to compare Rossi to MacKinnon on any level? Bless your heart…

[Enforceror]

19 minutes ago, Trade Deadline Hero said:

lol, are you actually trying to compare Rossi to MacKinnon on any level? Bless your heart…

I don't believe that was the intent at all and it's a fair point.

[Neutral Zone Dangles]

1 hour ago, SkolWild73 said:

I think you can pick apart sections of a season of a lot of players and find hot and cold or consistent and inconsistent play.  For example, B, Tkachuk had a 20 game stretch prior to 4 nations with 9 points and a minus 5 rating.

Of course you can. However, Rossi is not B. Tkachuk. And timing of hot/ cold stretches are everything. There’s certain times in a season when players can afford to have a cold stretch. The last quarter of the season while you’re fighting for a WC playoff spot is not the time. For guys trying to prove their worth and get resigned for a payday, like Rossi currently, it is not a good look to accomplish those things. 
 

You can cherry pick stats all day about players and try to justify a position. But, the eye test doesn’t lie and given a choice between a Mackinnon, a Tkachuk, or a Rossi with a similar, specific stat, 10/10 you will chose Mac or Tkachuk. To argue “but Rossi” has this or that similar to them, and is just as good at this one number is complete lunacy. Stop kidding yourself. He has good aspects to his game, but this fanboy obsession with propping him is getting old. 

[Neutral Zone Dangles]

10 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

I don't believe that was the intent at all and it's a fair point.

Really?..sounded like cherry picking a random stat to support a position and demonstrate Rossi is just as bad/ good as this superstar in this one specific thing. 
 

Apples and oranges my dude. Those two aren’t even on the same planet with their game. 

[Trade Deadline Hero]

58 minutes ago, AKwildkraken said:

Too bad Rossi isn't in contention of being the MVP, again.  

That being said, I do believe faceoffs aren't everything and I like Rossi's growth this season.  I think the puck to the side of the knee was/is still affecting his play as that can take a couple of weeks to heal.  

He’s definitely grown a lot as a player. That’s the thing, this is really only his second full season. He is a solid hockey player, but he still has a lot of maturing to do and I don’t think the Wild is the best place for him to do that. I think our team’s current “depth”requires more than he is consistently able to give. He’s has a lot of potential, but I think what the team needs from him is too much too soon. 

[MacGyver]

The cavalry is almost here!! He's on the ice!

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:39 PM by MacGyver

[SkolWild73]

22 minutes ago, Neutral Zone Dangles said:

Of course you can. However, Rossi is not B. Tkachuk. And timing of hot/ cold stretches are everything. There’s certain times in a season when players can afford to have a cold stretch. The last quarter of the season while you’re fighting for a WC playoff spot is not the time. For guys trying to prove their worth and get resigned for a payday, like Rossi currently, it is not a good look to accomplish those things. 
 

You can cherry pick stats all day about players and try to justify a position. But, the eye test doesn’t lie and given a choice between a Mackinnon, a Tkachuk, or a Rossi with a similar, specific stat, 10/10 you will chose Mac or Tkachuk. To argue “but Rossi” has this or that similar to them, and is just as good at this one number is complete lunacy. Stop kidding yourself. He has good aspects to his game, but this fanboy obsession with propping him is getting old. 

What is getting old is all the hate Rossi gets when he has done nothing but improve each year, yet because he has a bad stretch of hockey and isn’t 6’1, 200 pounds, so many have to point out all the negatives about him instead of appreciating what he has done.

Also, never compared him to Tkachuk, just found someone with similar point production this year to show that even great players go through tough stretches.  Yes it sucks he went through it at the end, but if wasn’t hot when Kap first went down, then maybe we are fighting for that playoff spot much earlier.  
 

 

[Trade Deadline Hero]

11 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

What is getting old is all the hate Rossi gets when he has done nothing but improve each year, yet because he has a bad stretch of hockey and isn’t 6’1, 200 pounds, so many have to point out all the negatives about him instead of appreciating what he has done.

Also, never compared him to Tkachuk, just found someone with similar point production this year to show that even great players go through tough stretches.  Yes it sucks he went through it at the end, but if wasn’t hot when Kap first went down, then maybe we are fighting for that playoff spot much earlier.  
 

 

Yeah, Dangles, he’s trying his best out there, leave Rossi alone. It’s not his fault he becomes beachball in the circle. 

[Enforceror]

1 hour ago, Neutral Zone Dangles said:

Really?..sounded like cherry picking a random stat to support a position and demonstrate Rossi is just as bad/ good as this superstar in this one specific thing. 
 

Apples and oranges my dude. Those two aren’t even on the same planet with their game. 

Totally agree he's not on that level. I was supporting the argument that faceoff % isn't the be all end all.

[Neutral Zone Dangles]

41 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

Totally agree he's not on that level. I was supporting the argument that faceoff % isn't the be all end all.

I agree with you FO% isn’t everything. However, I don’t think it was a fair comparison of numbers. Head to head for this year, Mac is winning at 49.9% and 115 pts. Go career totals, Mac is still beating Rossi’s career FO average, while still averaging about 100 pts per year. You can’t compare Rossi’s current year FO% to Mac’s career average and say look it’s a fair assessment or that they don’t matter, it’s a part of a bigger whole. 
 

It comes down to what each player provides to their team, their role, and their overall value. I think Rossi is a good young player who has potential and areas of improvement to make himself more valuable. He’s a hard worker and making improvements to his game, no doubt.  I believe he was put into an unfair position this season and expected to perform as a real 1C even though he wasn’t ready. 
 

The scoring issues come from not having puck possession,  winning faceoffs helps fix that. No question, if he works on his FO skills and a couple other details of his game he’ll develop in a few years to be really good. The issue is what is his value for resigning this summer? Numbers floating around of what he’s asking are in the ballpark of 7/8 mil. Keep in mind a guy like Ek, who brings more to the table with his play, is only making just over 5 mil a year. Does Rossi do more or worth more than Ek? Not in my book. 
 

 

[Enforceror]

3 minutes ago, Neutral Zone Dangles said:

I agree with you FO% isn’t everything. However, I don’t think it was a fair comparison of numbers. Head to head for this year, Mac is winning at 49.9% and 115 pts. Go career totals, Mac is still beating Rossi’s career FO average, while still averaging about 100 pts per year. You can’t compare Rossi’s current year FO% to Mac’s career average and say look it’s a fair assessment or that they don’t matter, it’s a part of a bigger whole. 
 

It comes down to what each player provides to their team, their role, and their overall value. I think Rossi is a good young player who has potential and areas of improvement to make himself more valuable. He’s a hard worker and making improvements to his game, no doubt.  I believe he was put into an unfair position this season and expected to perform as a real 1C even though he wasn’t ready. 
 

The scoring issues come from not having puck possession,  winning faceoffs helps fix that. No question, if he works on his FO skills and a couple other details of his game he’ll develop in a few years to be really good. The issue is what is his value for resigning this summer? Numbers floating around of what he’s asking are in the ballpark of 7/8 mil. Keep in mind a guy like Ek, who brings more to the table with his play, is only making just over 5 mil a year. Does Rossi do more or worth more than Ek? Not in my book. 
 

 

In complete agreeance except the last part. Well, kind of....

Although I don't in any way believe Rossi deserves more than Ek (at least not this year), Rossi is probably worth 8m in today's market. That being said, for the improvement of our team I think 6-7m is tops just due to what we have to work with and what we need. I'd really prefer we hold onto Rossi but we also need to make a leap to be a true contender.

Also, we're talking about the same guy right?

 

[Neutral Zone Dangles]

9 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

In complete agreeance except the last part. Well, kind of....

Although I don't in any way believe Rossi deserves more than Ek (at least not this year), Rossi is probably worth 8m in today's market. That being said, for the improvement of our team I think 6-7m is tops just due to what we have to work with and what we need. I'd really prefer we hold onto Rossi but we also need to make a leap to be a true contender.

Also, we're talking about the same guy right?

 

I think so, remember him having more hair and an Austrian accent lol. 
 

I agree for the right price hold on to him. I’m not sure on what that exact number is, your numbers seem like they’re in the ballpark. But that leap to become a contender is going to require more skill, more speed, and more size a lot sooner rather than later. 100% agree that leap needs to happen. 

[Citizen Strife]

I decided to look up the salary cap difference from when Ek was signed to now.  Recall that Ek was not the offensive player he is now or what Rossi was able to do.  Ek was, "super defensive stud," so keep this in mind.

19-22 Cap: $81.5m (Ek was signed)

25-26 Cap: $95.5m (1.17x increase)

26-27 Cap: $104m (1.28x increase)

27-28 Cap: $113.5m (1.39x increase)

Taking this into account, let's say the minimum is signing what Ek was worth then for what the smallest increase is.  Going smallest to largest over the next three years, the numbers that would equal Ek's $5.25m when he signed would be $6.14m (let's just say $6.15m), $6.72m ($6.75m), and $7.29m ($7.25-$7.3m).

I think Rossi and his agent are within their right to ask for $6.5m-$7.5m.  Anything under that on Guerin's end or over that on Rossi's end should be considered ludicrous.  I can see why Guerin wants to keep Ek and Rossi's values similar.  Ek's production outstrips his paycheck.  But he can't expect that to always be the case for every player.  For all we know, Boldy or Faber may end up being at those market values and never improve past those.  

If Guerin scoffs at $7m on a 2-3 year bridge, then I don't really know what the fuck Rossi is supposed to do.  That's Ek money in the new economy, and he's proven valuable to a certain extent.

 

 

 

 

[Citizen Strife]

As an extra exercise, I looked at Kap under the same numbers. Not saying he will get the same; $14m seems a high enough ceiling. The Wild would be desperate enough to do that if necessary. But let's just say $9m is where he's at now. The numbers would be $10.5m, $11.5m, $12.4m. I could see $13m-$14m being a possibility and eventuality.

[FredJohnson]

16 hours ago, Trade Deadline Hero said:

lol, are you actually trying to compare Rossi to MacKinnon on any level? Bless your heart…

Tony replied to your specific post:

He’s our first line center right now and doesn’t win faceoffs. That’s the issue.

It’s clear to me that Rossi can be (and is) a very good player despite being below average at face-offs. While he’s not as good as McKinnon, McKinnon is an extreme example of a great player that’s better than Rossi but worse than Rossi at face-offs. It is proof that one skill deficiency does have to be “the issue”.

[Pewterschmidt]

17 hours ago, Trade Deadline Hero said:

lol, are you actually trying to compare Rossi to MacKinnon on any level? Bless your heart…

Thank you TDH.  I was trying to come up with a response and you said it perfectly.

[Tony Abbott]

13 hours ago, Neutral Zone Dangles said:

The scoring issues come from not having puck possession,  winning faceoffs helps fix that. No question, if he works on his FO skills and a couple other details of his game he’ll develop in a few years to be really good. The issue is what is his value for resigning this summer? Numbers floating around of what he’s asking are in the ballpark of 7/8 mil. Keep in mind a guy like Ek, who brings more to the table with his play, is only making just over 5 mil a year. Does Rossi do more or worth more than Ek? Not in my book. 

Rossi has really good puck possession numbers, even during the scoring slump. 

Ek's contract was one that everyone agreed was a crazy-low cap hit when it was signed, and it was signed in the middle of a period of cap stagnation. I do think he is a 7-8 mil player if the game's economics don't change, but he's definitely that if the cap is skyrocketing. Completely different situations.