Article: The David Jiricek Trade Is Still the Right Call

[mnfaninnc]

8 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

I meant to canes

extension would be presumed as a condition

but the main point - he wasn’t going to do that and wasn’t able even if he wanted!

thats why we all know that we will bring back Brock Nelson - because we have less ingenuity than a drunk walrus (sorry walrus)

When the Canes knew he wasn't going to sign there, Tlusky didn't have a lot of time to put something together. Do you think maybe he asked Ranty's agent which teams he would resign with and only took and placed phone calls with them? 

That would have been my plan. We know Toronto was high on that list and Marner wouldn't cooperate. I think we had enough ammo to go after him if Ranty would have resigned with us. But, most of that stuff is kept within the cone of silence. 

I really wouldn't have wasted my time as the Canes GM talking to GMs with no shot at Ranty. I think this is where Shooter was. Perhaps Tlusky returned his call around March 15th? IIRC, the Dallas trade went right down to the wire too. 

[OldDutchChip]

18 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

We can assume this, but based upon what others gave up at the deadline to get their mediocre players, I would suggest that perhaps Shooter got sticker shock and knew this wasn't the year to go for it. He's still in building for the future mode and I think that's the best plan forward. Now, had we not signed Trenin and brought in Yurov to fill that spot, would that have moved the needle? Maybe a little bit, it certainly would have given him a year to acclimate. Injuries decimated the cap so there wasn't much there to absorb a decent player.

Billys “building for future” ends when Kap decides to not sign this July

But that’s likely known on the inside, hence the second 5 year plan and focus on future - to divert fans outrage that the team messed up a once in a generation talent but does plan to be competitive in the next 5-10-15-20 years! 

[SkolWild73]

8 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

The reports are mirror image of each other but the main point is not Ranty - it’s the fact that should Ranty declare himself available to Everyone - we took ourselves out earlier by going the safe route….why? Well to save GM job?

I do not see how the Jiricek trade or the Nyquist trade took us out of any possible trade.  

Ranty was traded from Carolina for a first and third in 2026, a 2027 third and a 2028 first, plus Stankoven. We currently have our first and third-round picks in 26, 27, and 28, plus a second this year.  Looks like we have the draft capital, not to mention prospects to pull of any trade

[mnfaninnc]

1 minute ago, Up North Guy said:

Chisholm can skate but makes so many bonehead plays.

What happened to Chissy? Did he lose all his confidence? That was a brutal giveaway. The look from Heinzy said, back to the doghouse, man.

[mnfaninnc]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Billys “building for future” ends when Kap decides to not sign this July

I'm usually a pessimistic person, but not on this one. I think Kaprizov resigns here and that he likes it here.

[Pewterschmidt]

45 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

The only argument here could be the 2nd for Nyquist but it had to be high for salary retention. Do I think it was an overpay?

I think this was a move bill made in desperation as he saw the teams grip on a playoff spot slip away.  This one is back firing as Nyquist is making a case for more Nojo TOI (gotta love end of contract Nojo.  You get 20 games of NHL effort).  At least I do understand Guerin's logic on Nyquist.

[mnfaninnc]

3 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Ranty was traded from Carolina for a first and third in 2026, a 2027 third and a 2028 first, plus Stankoven. We currently have our first and third-round picks in 26, 27, and 28, plus a second this year.  Looks like we have the draft capital, not to mention prospects to pull of any trade

We even had the kap space, you just don't play Kaprizov the rest of the regular season, and I would have been fine with that. Getting 2 games out of him seems like a wasted opportunity. 

[Pewterschmidt]

35 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

It’s very clear-there is no smart planning, just compulsive trades to prolong GMs tenure

It beginning to look more and more like the most accurate explanation for bill's move of late.

[mnfaninnc]

2 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I think this was a move bill made in desperation as he saw the teams grip on a playoff spot slip away.  This one is back firing as Nyquist is making a case for more Nojo TOI (gotta love end of contract Nojo.  You get 20 games of NHL effort).  At least I do understand Guerin's logic on Nyquist.

While Nyquist hasn't been scoring, he's better than having Boyd or Jones in the lineup. I think he has made the team better.

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

At what point would you have scrapped the plan? After the Yurov/Ohgren draft? Who says Guerin didn't share the plan with Kaprizov who approved? I don't think you could have done it for the '21 draft. Nor the '22 draft. Maybe going forward you could, but you're still having to bring in value types of guys.

I also think if you did scrap the plan, it would have been the same result that Fletcher got when he signed Parise and Suter. Instead, he marinated the kids, flipped them over and remarinated them. He has been pretty stubborn about trading them out. 

I thought we had some pretty competitive to good teams the last couple of years on paper....assuming good health. This is where I think Guerin blew it. With the guys 2 years older, I don't think he could still make that assumption, and he couldn't spend to the cap. He needed a buffer and eliminated it. 

Thinking about this logically -

Kaprizov is at the height of his prime and will be looking to secure a term where he can win, not mentor or wait for prospects to show what they have

His stay with the Wild yielded zero playoff success and this year - the group did very little while he was injured so he is again asked to save us and carry the team (fun!) oh and also get beat up some more against either Vegas brutes or Jets (with Zuccy as a deterrent)

we can do a lot of hypotheticals and what-ifs but current reality is a bit gloomy and suggests that Billy failed

[mnfaninnc]

23 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

The reports are mirror image of each other but the main point is not Ranty - it’s the fact that should Ranty declare himself available to Everyone - we took ourselves out earlier by going the safe route….why? Well to save GM job?

I disagree. I think Guerin feels very secure in his job and I think OCL has liked him as a GM. I think not having Ranty, and I'll go on record as saying I really wouldn't have been that excited about getting him, isn't the end all. I'd rather have someone else...he plays for Ottawa 😎

[Pewterschmidt]

Are we all ready to begin talking about Rossi's last 10-15 games.  Is this performance answering the question of whether or not Rossi can complete in playoff hockey????  Hint: he's been veeeerrry quiet lately.

[MacGyver]

9 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Who says Guerin didn't share the plan with Kaprizov who approved?

I truly hope this is not the case. It's going down a bad road when you let the players insert themselves into approving trades who to draft etc.  Next thing they are telling you who should get how much playing time and who should be on pp1 and so on. Talk about bad locker room vibes. This is why Parise and Suter were bought out or a large part of the reason at least. They thought they ran the team. Not the coach and not the GM. 

Evidenced by Parise bringing in Adam Oates to coach the power play during practice unbeknownst to Mike Yeo. Needs to be a definite line between players and management. 

[OldDutchChip]

8 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I do not see how the Jiricek trade or the Nyquist trade took us out of any possible trade.  

Ranty was traded from Carolina for a first and third in 2026, a 2027 third and a 2028 first, plus Stankoven. We currently have our first and third-round picks in 26, 27, and 28, plus a second this year.  Looks like we have the draft capital, not to mention prospects to pull of any trade

We used the picks that Dallas used for future unknown prospect rather than going for known player that would compliment our current start better

yes, we’ll have more picks and prospects and future….but we lost sight of the current state of things and the luxury of having an all world player 

we are wasting that chance

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I disagree. I think Guerin feels very secure in his job and I think OCL has liked him as a GM. I think not having Ranty, and I'll go on record as saying I really wouldn't have been that excited about getting him, isn't the end all. I'd rather have someone else...he plays for Ottawa 😎

I dunno - if Kap walks and Bill is not fired - and fans are all good with it - this is some weird sh1t

I like tkachuk too, but that’s a dream. If there was a chance at Ranty and Billy just disregarded it - he is an idiot 

Edited yesterday at 04:30 PM by OldDutchChip

[mnfaninnc]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Thinking about this logically -

Kaprizov is at the height of his prime and will be looking to secure a term where he can win, not mentor or wait for prospects to show what they have

His stay with the Wild yielded zero playoff success and this year - the group did very little while he was injured so he is again asked to save us and carry the team (fun!) oh and also get beat up some more against either Vegas brutes or Jets (with Zuccy as a deterrent)

we can do a lot of hypotheticals and what-ifs but current reality is a bit gloomy and suggests that Billy failed

But that's the thing, I am thinking about this logically. Guerin made the decision to go rebuild on the fly and buyout Suter and Parise. The next 5 years were going to be tough to get through. The team success is a red herring and probably led to lower 1st round picks than we should have gotten. 

But, you cannot drop everything because your rookie had a really great year. You resigned him for 5 x $9m, and then went to get him help. The help is almost here and he'd be foolish not to see that. 

It's not about babysitting some brats, it's about leading a talented bunch of kids to the promised land. Most teams get built in this manner (though many have a very talented vet have to live through dreadful seasons). When Shooter cut out Parise/Suter, traded Staal and let Koivu walk, he sent a very clear message that things were going to be different.

Those things don't suddenly materialize from year to year, it takes time to build them. Hopefully Judd has a better than average hit ratio after the 1st round to get them here, but they're all starting to come in next season.

[SkolWild73]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

We used the picks that Dallas used for future unknown prospect rather than going for known player that would compliment our current start better

yes, we’ll have more picks and prospects and future….but we lost sight of the current state of things and the luxury of having an all world player 

we are wasting that chance

My point was that we still possess all the picks and then some that Dallas used to make the trade for Ranty.  We didn’t mortgage any future trade by trading for Jiricek of Nyquist.  For the first this year, we are basically just drafting Jiricek with it.

[mnfaninnc]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

We used the picks that Dallas used for future unknown prospect rather than going for known player that would compliment our current start better

yes, we’ll have more picks and prospects and future….but we lost sight of the current state of things and the luxury of having an all world player 

we are wasting that chance

Ranty was the wrong guy to go after

[mnfaninnc]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

I like tkachuk too, but that’s a dream. If there was a chance at Ranty and Billy just disregarded it - he is an idiot 

Ranty was never going to be a good fit here. He wouldn't have bought into Heinzy's system. He wanted Colorado's system, not a 200' system. I'll enjoy watching the Wild shut him down in the future.

[SkolWild73]

8 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Are we all ready to begin talking about Rossi's last 10-15 games.  Is this performance answering the question of whether or not Rossi can complete in playoff hockey????  Hint: he's been veeeerrry quiet lately.

I am a pretty big Rossi fan, but I agree, his last 10-15 games he seems off.  Some reports say an injury, but everyone is banged up this time of year. Hopefully he can silence some critics with a strong post-season.

[raithis]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Did Ranty tell you that he wasn’t going to MN?

 

Aren't you the one who acts like he knows what Kaprizov wants all the time?

People post multiple links about Rantanen not wanting to come here, but that's not good enough for you because none of us heard it from personally.

How have you come across this grand insight into Kaprizov?  You never back any of your assertions up and when painted into a corner, you admit you don't know what he's thinking, but then you go right back to acting like you do.

Give it a rest.

Speculation is fine and fun, but you take it a bit too far.

[raithis]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Let's think about this for a second. The plan put in place was upon taking over the team. At the time, there were a couple of ways to rebuild a team:

1. Tank and get a bunch of high draft pick players
2.  Rebuild on a structured reboot on the fly

Which one do you think his boss was in favor of? So, in a structured rebuild where you are still trying to win, going to a goalie out method is a decent strategy. At the time, getting the best players available also played a part. We weren't particularly choosy. We wanted skill guys for forwards and we wanted puck moving defenders after a goalie. In the '21 draft we took The Wall, and Lambos with the 2 1sts. It was a crap shoot with the Covids, but those were Judd's big fish.

Why is this important? Because at the time, Kaprizov had played 55 games and he was good. He won the Calder trophy that year, but he wasn't yet a beast. The next season we took a couple of good looking forwards with Yurov and Ohgren. 

I'm not sure what you wanted them to do instead here. Shooter had to refill the cupboards. We bought out to heavy contracts. The team had a culture shift. Kaprizov got resigned to a 5 x $9m deal. Ek got resigned to a team friendly deal. We identified who we wanted to keep longterm, and then had some low budget value guys to placehold. I would have done a couple of things differently, but not monumental because everyone knows I've got 1 guy to please and that's the boss.

Not only that, but it may have been a selling point to re-signing Kaprizov to his current contract.  If Guerin had told him that we were tanking and it would take years to be competitive, I don't know how enthused he would have been about that.

I don't think there was any other choice than option 2.

Most teams don't tear down their teams to the floor boards and then contend any time soon.

[Will D. Ness]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

What happened to Chissy? Did he lose all his confidence? That was a brutal giveaway. The look from Heinzy said, back to the doghouse, man.

I think he plays on pure instinct and needs to find a lower gear if you know what I mean.  I thought he was figuring it out earlier in the year and was picking his spots better, but it didn't last.

[Citizen Strife]

The biggest point ODC is missing is, "Who wants to sign here and why". Parise and Suter did.  Look where that got the team.

The best players the Wild have had were ones they drafted or bought low on. Spurgeon, Faber, Middleton, Gus?  Gotten from other teams.  Kap, Brodin, Ek, Boldy, Rossi? Drafted.

If the Wild were some mystical fantasy land of greatness, sure, trade for or tank and get those stars.  Problem is, you are dealing with 30 other teams wanting players.

Any player could play or not play here for any reason.  This isn't a video game or GM mode where you can just say, "Give me this 92-95 OVR Player for my 80-85 junk!"

I think Guerin is hit and miss with signings and trades, but what GM isn't?  The fact that the Wild are a playoff team on a house money year has more to do with Hynes than anything.  

Yes, the offense is lackluster, but the PK is performing way better in the last few games, and they are 90-95% sure to make it.  Last year, they were where Calgary was: up shit creek.

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 06:26 PM by Citizen Strife

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

But that's the thing, I am thinking about this logically. Guerin made the decision to go rebuild on the fly and buyout Suter and Parise. The next 5 years were going to be tough to get through. The team success is a red herring and probably led to lower 1st round picks than we should have gotten. 

But, you cannot drop everything because your rookie had a really great year. You resigned him for 5 x $9m, and then went to get him help. The help is almost here and he'd be foolish not to see that. 

It's not about babysitting some brats, it's about leading a talented bunch of kids to the promised land. Most teams get built in this manner (though many have a very talented vet have to live through dreadful seasons). When Shooter cut out Parise/Suter, traded Staal and let Koivu walk, he sent a very clear message that things were going to be different.

Those things don't suddenly materialize from year to year, it takes time to build them. Hopefully Judd has a better than average hit ratio after the 1st round to get them here, but they're all starting to come in next season.

Guerin made the decision to go rebuild on the fly and buyout Suter and Parise. The next 5 years were going to be tough to get through.

Regardless of buyouts - it would be tough if your top money is tied into crappy players (ZP/RS)

But, you cannot drop everything because your rookie had a really great year. You resigned him for 5 x $9m, and then went to get him help.

If a GM and all his scouts could not see Kaprizov for who he is (and likely still don’t) by the end of his first year at most - they are horrible at their job

The help is almost here and he'd be foolish not to see that. 

Both you and I know that there is no truth to that! Youth will need time and will go thru plenty of hiccups. 

It's not about babysitting some brats, it's about leading a talented bunch of kids to the promised land. 

That is silly, it’s the same if oilers have said - “we’ll prioritize youth and development with future plan for success” all while McD is saying wtf?

When Shooter cut out Parise/Suter, traded Staal and let Koivu walk, he sent a very clear message that things were going to be different.

the players changed but it’s still just like it used to be! Foligno, Harty, Spurge, MAF, Trenin - paid for who knows what - at best for past skill. Billy’s method and approach is dated and didn’t deliver results

Those things don't suddenly materialize from year to year

that’s not true! Vegas showed that being smart, and creative and aggressive pays off. Dallas skipped over rebuild, Florida flipped a 100 pt player and changed the team structure 180 from offensive to hard nosed team. Yes it may not work for all  but  it’s a more deserving way for fans of a team who have done nothing for 25 years and is about to loose the best player in the world because of such thinking and execution - on deck another 5-10 years? Sign us up, wild fans cheered!