Article: The David Jiricek Trade Is Still the Right Call

[mnfaninnc]

I thought last night's game was kind of stealing a point. I thought the team hustled and played with desperation, but they just, simply, weren't good enough. But, the effort was there, and that is encouraging. Now we must duplicate the same on Long Island. 

I had thought if we won that game, we pretty much punched our ticket to the playoffs. Canucks laid an egg at home and lost 5-0 to the Kraken. Honestly, I think both Calgary and Vancouver will struggle to find 90 pts. 

[Dango]

I think you can multi task and not just focus on one thing ,  i believe BG will be working on improving the Offense once the season ends ,  i always knew it would be a tight window and also a hope some guys will emerge from within but also have free agency and trade possibilities .,     Teams are going to fall short again from winning the cup " only 1 can win " so they will be looking for pieces .

[Mateo3xm]

5 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

The goal should have been to bring someone on Kaprizov’s timeline and to join his line, to mesh with him and in some way protect him more than Zuccy and Rossi can. Yes it’s a big ask, but Billy had plenty of time. Jiricek is not that. He is a raw prospect and not an offensive partner for him. The true fail of Bill (again) is biting early and having really no clear plan. The picks are very substantial and combines with later blunders - you could see a package offered to canes where we walk out w Ranty. But instead we have Nyquist, Jiri and Braz and are trying to make something positive out of it. Neither will help us in the now nor has helped us to have a more convincing pitch to Kap this summer. Fail

What you fail to realize is that Rant didn’t want to come here. One of the stipulations was that he had to want to sign a contract in order to be traded to a team. Carolina already got burned because he didn’t want to sign. If he didn’t want to sign with Carolina he’s not signing with Mn. How do you not understand that? You come up with these scenarios and don’t think about it at all. It isn’t that easy to just trade a top 10 nhl player to any team.

[Mateo3xm]

18 hours ago, Lern2spell said:

Who knows, maybe those draft picks could have been used to enter the Rantanen sweepstakes,

Rant doesn’t want to come to Mn. Don’t you understand that he had to want to play for the team he was traded to or else he would become a rental and not sign an extension contract? Thats how Carolina got burned. That isn’t a valid point and we still have cap issues this year. You make it sound like it’s that easy and it’s not. 

[M_Nels]

18 hours ago, RedLake said:

Jiricek would of outplayed Spurgeon, Johnny f'in Merril, Bogosian, and Chislom yet he rotted in Iowa buttonhooker country.

Can't argue on Bogo but no way he would've outplayed Spurgeon. 

[Citizen Strife]

10 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

Has anyone been following Buium? He’s got 8pts in the last 5 games. He’s one of the big reasons Denver is in the final four right now. Watch his highlights in this article.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-sports/zeev-buium-leads-denver-back-frozen-four-when-will-make-wild-debut

Hes skating around making everyone else look silly. I’m not saying he’s going to be Quinn Hughes but he’s on that type of trajectory right now. I really think he’s the real deal.

I don't want to get too giddy.  I remember that most Wild defensemen have topped out around 45-50 pts a season.  Faber hit 45 last year.  I think that should be a reasonable amount for him and Buium.  The team would be transformed if they could reach that 60 pt. mark.  The problem is it has never happened, so I don't want to speculate.  

I want Buium to prove he is that player first before I anoint him.  Same with Kap.  He quickly made his presence felt.  Faber and Boldy to lesser extents.  I just want better players than Bogo, Chisholm, and Merrill.  I think at minimum, Buium and Jiricek should both be better out the gate offensively.  It's whether they have the defensive awareness to make up for it.

[MacGyver]

2 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

What you fail to realize is that Rant didn’t want to come here.

I don't know that he actually said this out loud anywhere so it's not a certainty but if I had to bet I would say it's most likely true. I think this is a bigger problem than people want to realize. Attracting players to come here. There is already a growing list of players who have said so publicly and did not sign here.  Jack McBain chose to sign with Arizona rather than here. Phil Kessel said no thanks. Patrick Laine said pass. We couldn't even get Nick Foligno here to play with his own brother!

I would say the same about Brady Tkachuk. There is no more of a winning culture here than there is in Ottawa. I guess he would want to stay out east somewhere. This is what's annoying about all the trade dreamers here. Package player X,Y and Z for player W. Done deal. No it doesn't happen that way. Players have more control than ever over where they will or will not go. We are experiencing that with our own players with NMC's or NTL's. Hard to move them if they don't want to go somewhere and even harder when the team they want to go to isn't interested in them.  

I believe Missouri has voted to eliminate income tax or close to it. St. Louis Blues just became a more attractive place to play. But not to worry  I'm sure Minnesota will be the next state to eliminate the income tax. 🤣

Edited 21 hours ago by MacGyver

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Looks to me like the "plan" was a simple one: rebuild from the goalie out with the '20-22 draft classes. I know you like Ranty, but his style of play and our style of play don't mix very well, as we saw in Carolina. We have a similarly structured system. 

I don't think Ranty would have stayed here, nor do I think he would have been successful here. 

It’s not about Ranty, it’s about biting early and throwing away your picks, having no strategy and prioritizing the wrong players.

what rebuild using goalie? The one that is stuck in AhL?

[mnfaninnc]

Just now, OldDutchChip said:

what rebuild using goalie? The one that is stuck in AhL?

That would be the one. He was drafted to take over that spot. Don't worry about him, he's still ahead of schedule even with this tough year.

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

What you fail to realize is that Rant didn’t want to come here. One of the stipulations was that he had to want to sign a contract in order to be traded to a team. Carolina already got burned because he didn’t want to sign. If he didn’t want to sign with Carolina he’s not signing with Mn. How do you not understand that? You come up with these scenarios and don’t think about it at all. It isn’t that easy to just trade a top 10 nhl player to any team.

Did Ranty tell you that he wasn’t going to MN?

 

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

That would be the one. He was drafted to take over that spot. Don't worry about him, he's still ahead of schedule even with this tough year.

Looks to me like the "plan" was a simple one: rebuild from the goalie out with the '20-22 draft classes.

The plan should have been to build a team around a superstar player - Kaprizov, (not to Wally) Kap is the main focus - plainand simple - and we’ve prioritized everyone else but him

We could plug in a goalie just fine, as we’ve done w Gus, Talbot, and many others

who we can’t replace is kaprizov

 

Edited 21 hours ago by OldDutchChip

[M_Nels]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

It’s not about Ranty, it’s about biting early and throwing away your picks, having no strategy and prioritizing the wrong players.

The only argument here could be the 2nd for Nyquist but it had to be high for salary retention. Do I think it was an overpay? Probably by a round but that's what happens with 50% retention.

Jiri's 1st & 2nd rounders make sense, at least rationale wise, because players of his "caliber" don't fall middle to late 1st round or 2nd round. The other filler picks were acquired anyways and likely won't hit. 

[SkolWild73]

12 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Did Ranty tell you that he wasn’t going to MN?

 

I had seen this before, but he only had 4 teams he would go to.  

 

Insider Reveals Four Teams Mikko Rantanen Was Willing to Sign Long-Term Deal With

[Lern2spell]

2 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

Rant doesn’t want to come to Mn. Don’t you understand that he had to want to play for the team he was traded to or else he would become a rental and not sign an extension contract? Thats how Carolina got burned. That isn’t a valid point and we still have cap issues this year. You make it sound like it’s that easy and it’s not. 

Hence the whole 'Who knows, maybe' part of my statement. But maybe $13.5M instead of the $12M Dallas gave him would have been enough to consider coming to the Wild. His cap hit was $4.3m when traded, which was feasible for the Wild, but because they lacked the compensation (given up for Jiricek) to even make an offer, no one knows if he would have considered coming to Minnesota. Players change their minds all the time. Who expected Johnny Gaudreau to sign with Columbus? Blue Jackets made an offer he couldn't refuse, which is what the Wild will need to do to get elite talent to join them.

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

The only argument here could be the 2nd for Nyquist but it had to be high for salary retention. Do I think it was an overpay? Probably by a round but that's what happens with 50% retention.

Jiri's 1st & 2nd rounders make sense, at least rationale wise, because players of his "caliber" don't fall middle to late 1st round or 2nd round. The other filler picks were acquired anyways and likely won't hit. 

Cumulatively we sent out 1, 2, 2, 3, 4 for Nyquist and jiricek - I am not sure how one would back this? Nyquist just takes space that could be occupied by a hungrier and younger ohgren

and the haul that was sent for a D who is still in development stage is inexcusable- such a collection of picks could and should have been used better on a player in his prime (there were others out there that may have been available should we pivoted to them and maybe added to the offer, but instead we went for safe route - 35 year old slowass Nyquist…why??)

It’s very clear-there is no smart planning, just compulsive trades to prolong GMs tenure

[mnfaninnc]

8 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

The plan should have been to build a team around a superstar player - Kaprizov, (not to Wally) Kap is the main focus - plainand simple - and we’ve prioritized everyone else but him

Let's think about this for a second. The plan put in place was upon taking over the team. At the time, there were a couple of ways to rebuild a team:

1. Tank and get a bunch of high draft pick players
2.  Rebuild on a structured reboot on the fly

Which one do you think his boss was in favor of? So, in a structured rebuild where you are still trying to win, going to a goalie out method is a decent strategy. At the time, getting the best players available also played a part. We weren't particularly choosy. We wanted skill guys for forwards and we wanted puck moving defenders after a goalie. In the '21 draft we took The Wall, and Lambos with the 2 1sts. It was a crap shoot with the Covids, but those were Judd's big fish.

Why is this important? Because at the time, Kaprizov had played 55 games and he was good. He won the Calder trophy that year, but he wasn't yet a beast. The next season we took a couple of good looking forwards with Yurov and Ohgren. 

I'm not sure what you wanted them to do instead here. Shooter had to refill the cupboards. We bought out to heavy contracts. The team had a culture shift. Kaprizov got resigned to a 5 x $9m deal. Ek got resigned to a team friendly deal. We identified who we wanted to keep longterm, and then had some low budget value guys to placehold. I would have done a couple of things differently, but not monumental because everyone knows I've got 1 guy to please and that's the boss.

[OldDutchChip]

12 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I had seen this before, but he only had 4 teams he would go to.  

 

Insider Reveals Four Teams Mikko Rantanen Was Willing to Sign Long-Term Deal With

According to a reporter from somewhere? Did Ranty flat out  say that ? No

and regardless - it’s not about Ranty - it’s about the team being satisfied with this crap

Did they even reach out? Did they plan their resources to be ready?

of course NoT !

they already spent them on Mywuist and Jiricek

[SkolWild73]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

According to a reporter from somewhere? Did Ranty flat out  say that ? No

and regardless - it’s not about Ranty - it’s about the team being satisfied with this crap

Did they even reach out? Did they plan their resources to be ready?

of course NoT !

they already spent them on Mywuist and Jiricek

Rantanen to Brind’Amour: '4 Teams I’ll Play For, You’re Not One of Them'

There are a bunch of other reports stating the same thing

Edited 21 hours ago by SkolWild73

[mnfaninnc]

6 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

and the haul that was sent for a D who is still in development stage is inexcusable- such a collection of picks could and should have been used better on a player in his prime (there were others out there that may have been available should we pivoted to them and maybe added to the offer, but instead we went for safe route - 35 year old slowass Nyquist…why??)

We can assume this, but based upon what others gave up at the deadline to get their mediocre players, I would suggest that perhaps Shooter got sticker shock and knew this wasn't the year to go for it. He's still in building for the future mode and I think that's the best plan forward. Now, had we not signed Trenin and brought in Yurov to fill that spot, would that have moved the needle? Maybe a little bit, it certainly would have given him a year to acclimate. Injuries decimated the cap so there wasn't much there to absorb a decent player.

[mnfaninnc]

We don't know if Shooter reached out to Colorado or not. Interdivision trading is hard. Did he reach out to Carolina? Perhaps yes and we weren't one of those 4 teams? Shooter wasn't trading without an extension, just like Dallas wouldn't either. That deal even fell through once because of the extension requirement.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Let's think about this for a second. The plan put in place was upon taking over the team. At the time, there were a couple of ways to rebuild a team:

1. Tank and get a bunch of high draft pick players
2.  Rebuild on a structured reboot on the fly

Which one do you think his boss was in favor of? So, in a structured rebuild where you are still trying to win, going to a goalie out method is a decent strategy. At the time, getting the best players available also played a part. We weren't particularly choosy. We wanted skill guys for forwards and we wanted puck moving defenders after a goalie. In the '21 draft we took The Wall, and Lambos with the 2 1sts. It was a crap shoot with the Covids, but those were Judd's big fish.

Why is this important? Because at the time, Kaprizov had played 55 games and he was good. He won the Calder trophy that year, but he wasn't yet a beast. The next season we took a couple of good looking forwards with Yurov and Ohgren. 

I'm not sure what you wanted them to do instead here. Shooter had to refill the cupboards. We bought out to heavy contracts. The team had a culture shift. Kaprizov got resigned to a 5 x $9m deal. Ek got resigned to a team friendly deal. We identified who we wanted to keep longterm, and then had some low budget value guys to placehold. I would have done a couple of things differently, but not monumental because everyone knows I've got 1 guy to please and that's the boss.

Any existing plan should have been flushed down the toilet if it did not prioritize Kaprizov. We have watched his greatness for some time now so it’s not just a recent revelation. We know he is due to sign this summer. Smart strategy would be to have him taste some success with this group so everything should have been done with Kaprizov in mind.

NONE of this happened.

it’s Rossi, Boldy, Ek and Faber

its Trenin, Freddy, Nyquist, MJ, harty, Zuccy 

who was brought in to align with Kaprizov during Kaprizovs tenure here? We gave him Harty and Zuccy….

[OldDutchChip]

6 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Rantanen to Brind’Amour: '4 Teams I’ll Play For, You’re Not One of Them'

There are a bunch of other reports stating the same thing

The reports are mirror image of each other but the main point is not Ranty - it’s the fact that should Ranty declare himself available to Everyone - we took ourselves out earlier by going the safe route….why? Well to save GM job?

[OldDutchChip]

4 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

We don't know if Shooter reached out to Colorado or not. Interdivision trading is hard. Did he reach out to Carolina? Perhaps yes and we weren't one of those 4 teams? Shooter wasn't trading without an extension, just like Dallas wouldn't either. That deal even fell through once because of the extension requirement.

I meant to canes

extension would be presumed as a condition

but the main point - he wasn’t going to do that and wasn’t able even if he wanted!

thats why we all know that we will bring back Brock Nelson - because we have less ingenuity than a drunk walrus (sorry walrus)

[mnfaninnc]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Any existing plan should have been flushed down the toilet if it did not prioritize Kaprizov. We have watched his greatness for some time now so it’s not just a recent revelation. We know he is due to sign this summer. Smart strategy would be to have him taste some success with this group so everything should have been done with Kaprizov in mind.

At what point would you have scrapped the plan? After the Yurov/Ohgren draft? Who says Guerin didn't share the plan with Kaprizov who approved? I don't think you could have done it for the '21 draft. Nor the '22 draft. Maybe going forward you could, but you're still having to bring in value types of guys.

I also think if you did scrap the plan, it would have been the same result that Fletcher got when he signed Parise and Suter. Instead, he marinated the kids, flipped them over and remarinated them. He has been pretty stubborn about trading them out. 

I thought we had some pretty competitive to good teams the last couple of years on paper....assuming good health. This is where I think Guerin blew it. With the guys 2 years older, I don't think he could still make that assumption, and he couldn't spend to the cap. He needed a buffer and eliminated it. 

[Up North Guy]

2 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

I want Buium to prove he is that player first before I anoint him.  Same with Kap.  He quickly made his presence felt.  Faber and Boldy to lesser extents.  I just want better players than Bogo, Chisholm, and Merrill.  I think at minimum, Buium and Jiricek should both be better out the gate offensively.  It's whether they have the defensive awareness to make up for it.

Watching those three play the last few games, I believe Zeev and Jiri will be better on offense and defense. Bogo and Merrill can't skate anymore and Chisholm can skate but makes so many bonehead plays.