Article: The Wild Can't Underestimate the Value Of Centers

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Riley Heidt is an all offense prospect - Beckman style of player - whose game is not the same responsive game that Marat had in his underused tool bag. So Heidt is out.

I was looking in the direction of Bankier and Milne. While Milne is a winger, Bankier adds a better scoring touch and size and is progressing nicely. Really, all MaRat added was excessive speed that he was always downshifting from. 

But, before dumping him, why not see if he has any chemistry with someone like Boldy?

[Burnt Toast]

7 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

We should have taken a bit more time to see who he can be.

It’ll be interesting seeing how he plays in Boston. I genuinely liked his demeanor. If they can find a role for him and develop him at the same time I’d be very happy. BTW Greenway looked very engaged last week. I know he just extended with Buffalo.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Was he worth a mid-late 1st round and some filler? We'll see but he has a ton of upside and adds coveted size to the back end. He's up with the big club to spend time with Andy Ness and get practices with the big club. 

It would make sense that if Guerin was so high on trading for Jiricek, and Judd conquered, wouldn't they bring in Andy Ness before the deal to show him some scouting tape and ask him if he could fix Jiricek? The deal took a long time to come together, so they had plenty of time.

I would think this is logical and the very least you would do in due diligence.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I was looking in the direction of Bankier and Milne. While Milne is a winger, Bankier adds a better scoring touch and size and is progressing nicely. Really, all MaRat added was excessive speed that he was always downshifting from. 

But, before dumping him, why not see if he has any chemistry with someone like Boldy?

you mean pairing Heidt with Boldy? I think Boldy needs a skilled and proven player to push and challenge him a bit - not a rookie that he likely will have to cover for (Heidt is a known D liability). Boldy is not Kaprizov - it won't be good if Boldy has to carry a rookie on his line. And Heidt will need to marinate in the AHL for a bit....

[SkolWild73]

34 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

I have a feeling GMBG will have to. Otherwise, Rossi will be traded for pennies on the dollar. Other GMs know what's up with what's going down.

I wonder what that number is that the Rossi camp wants.  No way it should be as much as what Johnston got from the Stars, and that is 8.4M.  Unless we are offering 4 and they want 7 I can’t see how we can be that far apart.  Maybe it goes to Arbitration?

[M_Nels]

22 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

It would make sense that if Guerin was so high on trading for Jiricek, and Judd conquered, wouldn't they bring in Andy Ness before the deal to show him some scouting tape and ask him if he could fix Jiricek? The deal took a long time to come together, so they had plenty of time

They very well may have, Jiri had tape out there. Billy & Judd may have went to him and asked if his skating was mendable. I think it was Russo saying the Wild brass have been high on him for awhile.

[FredJohnson]

29 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

I’d love to see them add one after extending KK. Rossi has been improving every year, maybe he can fill that role. Any examples of players his size fitting the bill?

I keep hearing Brock Nelson in the offseason because there is mutual interest.

Yurov in the future as he grows and develops.

[Pewterschmidt]

37 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

BTW Greenway looked very engaged last week. I know he just extended with Buffalo.

I spot shadowed G-Wagon in that game to see how far he's come.  He still looks like he's using a broom handle when he's got the puck.  Trenin and Green Jeans are the same player IMO.  

[M_Nels]

10 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Trenin and Green Jeans are the same player IMO.  

One thing Trenin has that Greenbean didn't is hustle. I'll give the T-Train some props in that regard, dude skates with a purpose until he phantomly falls down.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

39 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Boldy is not Kaprizov - it won't be good if Boldy has to carry a rookie on his line.

You mean like Khusnutdinov?

Some folks think the Wild were dumb not to elevate a rookie to play with Boldy and see what the rookie could do with more talent, but some think it would be dumb to try to play a rookie with Boldy to make him carry a rookie on his line.

Cannot please everyone. I was surprised by the Knudi trade, but Guerin's moves mostly have worked long-term and the the team has been playing reasonably well lately. I wouldn't have written that prior to the last 2 wins where they scored some goals, but they had mostly outplayed Vancouver(outshooting the Canucks roughly 2:1) when they faced them the prior week, but failed to capitalize on the myriad of scoring chances they had created.

I missed the Pittsburgh game. I didn't watch all of the St. Lous game, and I know they didn't play well in that one, but they've gotten points from 7 of their last 10 games, including 6 wins. Hopefully they continue to acquire points and Kaprizov starts skating again by the end of this week, which seems to be the expectation.

Nearly everyone scoffed at the Hinostroza pickup when they made it, but he brings good energy and has seemed pretty solid in the shifts I've seen from him.

 

[Enforceror]

30 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

I keep hearing Brock Nelson in the offseason because there is mutual interest.

Yurov in the future as he grows and develops.

I did a little digging on Yurov today to see what the scoop is. Not much info until you use Yandex search engine and translate the Russian sites. 

Apparently he is back practicing with the team but per his coach, he is "not up to good form" (very loosely translated). This came out today.

I also found a couple interviews in my travels, one of note where at the beginning of the season he mentions that he is now weighing in at 187 (as opposed to Elite Prospects listing him at 176lbs). Nod to you MNFan.

Metallurg's first playoff game is 3/26 so I'll check in on the roster at that time and see if he's suiting up....but it doesn't sound like it will be anytime soon.

 

 

[Pewterschmidt]

7 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

One thing Trenin has that Greenbean didn't is hustle. I'll give the T-Train some props in that regard, dude skates with a purpose until he phantomly falls down.

Not to be disagreeable, but I will disagree re: T-Bag's hustle.  Of the 70 games he's played so far with his new team he's had a pulse for about 15 of those games.  Most recent 15 games.  Now I can understand that a player who plays for his next NHL contract every season gets to take a breath when he signs a 4 yr deal WITH protection.  so I'll look the other way on T-Rex's lack of fire and healthy scratches thru this season.  But I cannot stand by and listen to someone say his "hustle" is a strength.

Now if T-Nightus plays big and fast in the playoffs....I will forget about his first 50 games this season

[M_Nels]

Just now, Pewterschmidt said:

Not to be disagreeable, but I will disagree re: T-Bag's hustle.  Of the 70 games he's played so far with his new team he's had a pulse for about 15 of those games.  Most recent 15 games.  Now I can understand that a player who plays for his next NHL contract every season gets to take a breath when he signs a 4 yr deal WITH protection.  so I'll look the other way on T-Rex's lack of fire and healthy scratches thru this season.  But I cannot stand by and listen to someone say his "hustle" is a strength.

Now if T-Nightus plays big and fast in the playoffs....I will forget about his first 50 games this season

That's fair, I kinda forgot how out of place he looked early. 

[OldDutchChip]

18 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

You mean like Khusnutdinov?

Some folks think the Wild were dumb not to elevate a rookie to play with Boldy and see what the rookie could do with more talent, but some think it would be dumb to try to play a rookie with Boldy to make him carry a rookie on his line.

Cannot please everyone. I was surprised by the Knudi trade, but Guerin's moves mostly have worked long-term and the the team has been playing reasonably well lately. I wouldn't have written that prior to the last 2 wins where they scored some goals, but they had mostly outplayed Vancouver(outshooting the Canucks roughly 2:1) when they faced them the prior week, but failed to capitalize on the myriad of scoring chances they had created.

I missed the Pittsburgh game. I didn't watch all of the St. Lous game, and I know they didn't play well in that one, but they've gotten points from 7 of their last 10 games, including 6 wins. Hopefully they continue to acquire points and Kaprizov starts skating again by the end of this week, which seems to be the expectation.

Nearly everyone scoffed at the Hinostroza pickup when they made it, but he brings good energy and has seemed pretty solid in the shifts I've seen from him.

 

You mean like Khusnutdinov? has marat been given a chance with better linemates? no he hasn't. 

Some folks think the Wild were dumb not to elevate a rookie to play with Boldy and see what the rookie could do with more talent, but some think it would be dumb to try to play a rookie with Boldy to make him carry a rookie on his line. the wild and billy are undoubtedly smart to let go Marat and Lauko go in exchance for a player who will likely be planted on the bench come PO time and let go after the season. Yes, brilliant planning. No of course, there is no need for development when our prospects are such highly ranked! yeap.

Cannot please everyone. I was surprised by the Knudi trade, but Guerin's moves mostly have worked long-term and the the team has been playing reasonably well lately. do tell which ones? which moves are you talking about? his moves to bring in MJ or Nyquist twice? or this Braz deal? or Trenin? or Foligno? or Harty? tell me how are we set up for Long term success? 🙂

Nearly everyone scoffed at the Hinostroza yeap we are a collection of misfits that are trying their best not to drown ....when the shore is so close! we should re-sign them all and do it all over again, especially without Kap (unless he is a fan of this idiocy)

[Thatoneguy]

2 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I do not disagree with your assessment of Khuz right now.  I do get bothered when the faithful continue to say the "our lead pipe lock prospect pool is so deep we can (effectively) piss away assets, and not get comparable assets in return".  this is something bill does, combined with overpaying (ie: Trenin, NMC's). 

That GM'ing strategy is like saying we lose money on every widget we sell but we make it up in volume.  That is not a sustainable strategy bill!

How quickly fans forgot the Fletcher era....

The trades Blunder Billy made this season reeks of Fletcherism. 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Nyquist twice? or this Braz deal? or Trenin? or Foligno? or Harty?

I wasn't a fan of signing Johansson, but which of these other players has played poorly for the Wild this season?

Hartman was probably having the worst season of these guys(compared to expectations of their role), but has tallied 6 points over the last 9 games and was one of their best performers last season, outside of the forwards making $5M+.

[Citizen Strife]

I forget if Guerin made the trade for Middleton.  Kahkonen is in some other far off planet somewere.

Oh, and I think Gus for Talbot worked out in the end.  

But no.  Can't have ANY nice things to say about Guerin because a small guy who didn't score here and a boxed out 3rd pair defenseman got traded.  Forgive me.  Maybe Khusnutdinov is a Nino waiting to happen.  If the team plays better next year with its new crop of recruit, not a single one of us is going to go, "if ONLY Khusnutdinov and Hunt were still here."

Edited Monday at 07:18 PM by Citizen Strife

[Imyourhuckleberry]

10 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

You mean like Khusnutdinov? has marat been given a chance with better linemates? no he hasn't. 

Agreed, and you seem to be saying that he shouldn't, but are mad that he didn't.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I wasn't a fan of signing Johansson, but which of these other players has played poorly for the Wild this season?

Hartman was probably having the worst season of these guys(compared to expectations of their role), but has tallied 6 points over the last 9 games and was one of their best performers last season, outside of the forwards making $5M+.

Every dollar matters and a good GM should have a plan and not just hand out money to players. Was he trying to over bid against someone for Foligno? maybe for Trenin? maybe for Zuccy or Hartman? Just last year Marat was viewed as a great prospect, now he is tossed aside for Braz? You don't see an illogical pattern of moves? We have Jiricek who had cost almost as much as Rantannen! where is he? i dunno - sitting in the hotel in MN somewhere wondering the same. or where is can't miss prospect Wally? still need time .... right. Then we get the second coming of Nyquist - a much slower Nyquist, with NO physicality and NO speed. This all could have been planned out MUCH better and perhaps funds could be allocated out to the right players and align with a vision and timeline of your all-world player. But yet we are not even into the second 5 year plan! 🍻

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Agreed, and you seem to be saying that he shouldn't, but are mad that he didn't.

i was responding to mnfan and was actually not sure if he meant Heidt and Marat. so by now i am a bit lost with this thread 🙂

but Marat should have been kept out of those trade discussions and should have been sent to Iowa

[Willy the poor boy]

4 hours ago, Will D. Ness said:

The problem I have with this argument is the relative value left on the table.  Regardless of roster situation, we gave away the value and potential in a rookie on a RFA contract needlessly or maybe for other reasons not quantified.

Reminds me of the time BG said I took the first fair offer. I think it was the T Bot trade, but I could be wrong.

 That's what's so scary about him trading Rossi away which is picking up steam again.

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

I forget if Guerin made the trade for Middleton.  Kahkonen is in some other far off planet somewere.

 

yeap and he also brought us Bonino and Addison and Galchenyuk - studs

yes he traded for Faber but i still take Fiala over him 

you all know you agree - 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

8 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Reminds me of the time BG said I took the first fair offer. I think it was the T Bot trade, but I could be wrong.

Talbot was a solid goalie and I questioned that move too, but Gustavsson has been an excellent return.

Lots of people said Guerin didn't get enough for Fiala with Faber and Ohgren(the pick that turned into him). Would you trade the future of those 2 for Fiala today?

While many seemed to think they were reactionary poor decisions in the moment, long-term, those have seemed to indicate that Guerin was making moves that were solid hockey decisions, likely with good information from his staff that supported the move even though it may have looked like a modest return to those who were less informed.

Edited Monday at 07:34 PM by Imyourhuckleberry

[Citizen Strife]

Not sure if I'm going to get this right, but this is my attempt to be both lame, childish, and funny without being mean.  

"Big Bad Guerin got mad at Mr. Reporter man because he sold away this guy I like, that nobody else seemed to.  He didn't make trades for big names guys despite having no money, no players on LTIR, and no spots to do it.  He signed a big dumb oaf who scored against Buffalo, but Boston thinks the other guy is better cause he might be as good as that Dewar guy was that one time.  Guerin's just a big, meany, stupid, dum dum poopy head."

....ahem.

It's been a long day of cleaning my apartment, and I have to do laundry.  Excuse me for this outburst.

[Willy the poor boy]

10 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Talbot was a solid goalie and I questioned that move too, but Gustavsson has been an excellent return.

Lots of people said Guerin didn't get enough for Fiala with Faber and Ohgren(the pick that turned into him). Would you trade the future of those 2 for Fiala today?

While many seemed to think they were reactionary poor decisions in the moment, long-term, those have seemed to indicate that Guerin was making moves that were solid hockey decisions, likely with good information from his staff that supported the move even though it may have looked like a modest return to those who were less informed.

A lot of his trades have worked out and maybe that says something about him that I'm not ready to concede yet at this point. But my point is 'I took the first fair offer' should never come out of a GM's mouth.