Article: The Wild Can't Underestimate the Value Of Centers

[Imyourhuckleberry]

11 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

15 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

If that's true, why has his WHL team been using him on the PK?

who cares? 

Excellent way to refute that he has no defensive game. You have little basis to back up your opinion, so why should anyone care, right?

I don't know if Heidt will be a solid PK player at the NHL level. I do know that Khusnutdinov was one of their worst PK performers based upon actual results and that the Wild are getting better overall results after making these trades.

The Wild also have Kumpulainen and Stramel in the pipeline as 2nd round pick types of centers. They do have other 3rd and 4th line option prospects at C.

Edited Monday at 03:52 PM by Imyourhuckleberry

[SkolWild73]

12 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Was he worth a mid-late 1st round and some filler? We'll see but he has a ton of upside and adds coveted size to the back end. He's up with the big club to spend time with Andy Ness and get practices with the big club. 

we can discard Jiri - but it does show the lack of forecast and planning for Bill. if we are patient with our assets (and Jiri cost a lot) and willing to be players for big game (Ranty, Miller) then we may not be talking about Nyquist and Braz and wondering when is Jiri's time. Braz got us size - is that going to be helpful for us in the PO? not likely - his time will be very slim and he won't deter any thing from our top 6 since he is not on the ice for that. It will be like Reaves on the bench barking but not actually doing anything. Actually not even Sure Braz is a feisty one or just big. And to use him as a screener - you have to play him and do we really want to play him in crucial situation?? And yes, Andy Ness is this dude that teaches kids to skate....but there is a skating coach with every club - are we really going to pretend that we have the best one out there? 

As far as Lauko and Marat for Nyquist and Braz, it's a lateral move with 1 foot forward. Lauko was never in long-term plans, Khus evidently wasn't either because of salary and lack of production. but did we have to pay that much for so little? and yes this was an overpay. braz was nowhere near the most coveted commodity and we gave boston way too much. 

The 4th & 6th are basically nothing picks so I'm not crying myself to sleep over those. but when you add it all together - we could likely combined these assets and look for a much better suited piece. these types of random moves show that there is no plan, there is no vision,  there is a constant delay - what did Bill say "not our time yet"......right, we'll wait patiently until another 5-10 years and reset

I have tried to make sense of the Lauko, Khus, 6th pick trade looking at it from a gm perspective.  Looking to our lineup next year, with Kap, Ek, Boldy, Zucc, Foligno, Freddy, Trenin, Hartman, and Vinnie signed, that is nine forwards.  Add in Yurov and Ohgren we would be at 11.  Whether number 12 is Rossi or a FA, there wasn’t room for Lauko or Khus to make the team, even if we resigned Rossi and traded one of the above players to make room for a FA or in a trade.  So I feel like we tried to get something.  Not sure if Braz is that player or not.  Maybe they wanted to see if he could fill the Trenin role and move on from him to save some money next year?  I doubt Braz is going to command a huge raise.

Time will tell I suppose.  

[OldDutchChip]

7 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Excellent way to refute that he has no defensive game. You have little basis to back up your opinion, so why should anyone care, right?

I don't know if Heidt will be a solid PK player at the NHL level. I do know that Khusnutdinov was one of their worst PK performers based upon actual results and that the Wild are getting better overall results after making these trades.

The Wild also have Kumpulainen and Stramel in the pipeline as 2nd round pick types of centers. They do have other 3rd and 4th line option prospects at C.

your claim that he is an all-around player is that he played PK for his junior team? have the questions about his speed, physicality and lack of defensive game been answered? how? just by him playing some minutes in PK? I think those were legit questions that he has to answer in the professional league, not in CHL. has he played one game in AHL or Wild? no = so all that is noise until he actually suits up and shows that he has a future in the NHL and not just another Beckman

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I have tried to make sense of the Lauko, Khus, 6th pick trade looking at it from a gm perspective.  Looking to our lineup next year, with Kap, Ek, Boldy, Zucc, Foligno, Freddy, Trenin, Hartman, and Vinnie signed, that is nine forwards.  Add in Yurov and Ohgren we would be at 11.  Whether number 12 is Rossi or a FA, there wasn’t room for Lauko or Khus to make the team, even if we resigned Rossi and traded one of the above players to make room for a FA or in a trade.  So I feel like we tried to get something.  Not sure if Braz is that player or not.  Maybe they wanted to see if he could fill the Trenin role and move on from him to save some money next year?  I doubt Braz is going to command a huge raise.

Time will tell I suppose.  

so why not just put Marat in the AHL (not like you are bursting with talent there now) give him a chance to lead the team along with Ohgr and then if you really are that in love with Braz, then go ahead and give him Lauko and 6th. Billy is starting to waste picks just like many of the previous GMs towards the end of their tenure.....which is not good for the team success. 

 

 

[SkolWild73]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

so why not just put Marat in the AHL (not like you are bursting with talent there now) give him a chance to lead the team along with Ohgr and then if you really are that in love with Braz, then go ahead and give him Lauko and 6th. Billy is starting to waste picks just like many of the previous GMs towards the end of their tenure.....which is not good for the team success. 

 

 

Yea, I don’t know.  Possible that they had talked a contract with Khus and didn’t want to pay him what he wanted to play in the A, or were worried about an offer sheet and lose him for nothing?  I am only speculating, but trying to figure out what may have went into the decision.

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, SkolWild73 said:

Yea, I don’t know.  Possible that they had talked a contract with Khus and didn’t want to pay him what he wanted to play in the A, or were worried about an offer sheet and lose him for nothing?  I am only speculating, but trying to figure out what may have went into the decision.

i guess, but then why do we have to talk to a player and/or agent at every opportunity - it's business - get your ass to AHL and work on this and that and be ready next year. it's silly to give up on someone that you were just recently speaking glowingly about. it's not the end of the world - but it may lead to Kap thinking = what da F is Bill doing here? seems like a panic move with no logic. 

[SkolWild73]

1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

i guess, but then why do we have to talk to a player and/or agent at every opportunity - it's business - get your ass to AHL and work on this and that and be ready next year. it's silly to give up on someone that you were just recently speaking glowingly about. it's not the end of the world - but it may lead to Kap thinking = what da F is Bill doing here? seems like a panic move with no logic. 

I hear ya.  But looking at what Braz has done in his career, 84 games, 16G, 12A, if he signs next year and Trenin is gone and he puts up those types of numbers for a year, then it might be a decent trade.  If he is a rental, then even I who like to see the positive in anything, would be scratching my head a little, wondering if we could have gotten something more.  A lot of ifs, but time will tell.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I hear ya.  But looking at what Braz has done in his career, 84 games, 16G, 12A, if he signs next year and Trenin is gone and he puts up those types of numbers for a year, then it might be a decent trade.  If he is a rental, then even I who like to see the positive in anything, would be scratching my head a little, wondering if we could have gotten something more.  A lot of ifs, but time will tell.

where is trenin going? 🤔 i think he is signed Longterm....

i just hope we don't end up with trenin and braz and nyquist and a resigned MJ! 

 

[SkolWild73]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

where is trenin going? 🤔 i think he is signed Longterm....

i just hope we don't end up with trenin and braz and nyquist and a resigned MJ! 

 

I am not sure he is, but my thinking was that Braz was on a trial run to see if he could replace him at a lesser contract.  Only speculation on my part.  I can’t see room for both next year.

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Simply an offset to all of the people whining about Khusnutdinov scoring a couple of goals for the Bruins--he still only has 5 shots on goal in 8 games. Dino had 550 minutes of even strength play with the Wild and posted only 2 goals. He had a lot of opportunities to do more.

The Wild gave up goals at a higher rate when Dino was on the ice than with the new players. It's quite possible the trade that so many were upset about is actually working out fine for the Wild in the short term.

Dino wasn't even going to be with the Wild after the Nyquist trade due to his salary cap hit. The trade doesn't really seem so bad when you look at how the Wild might have been looking to replace him next season with more talent on the way.

I tuned into the Bruins v Kings last night to spot shadow on Khuz.  He played on the first line with Middlestadt and Pasta.  He looks good on the wing.  Wild should have moved him around our lineup to see what he was capable of, not simply make him a shut down 4th line C.  He looked fast AND capable last night.  Which makes me still wonder why the urgency to unload a 22 year old 2nd rounder for a 27 year old lumber wagon.  He came and went on that line.  Not sure coach was unhappy or if it was a match up thing.

This may play out as a net neutral trade, but that will be the best case scenario for bill.  Maybe bill understood he was sending away more potential/talent than he was getting back and the move was for a player who can be more effective in post season this year and next, but I think it's another example of bill outsmarting himself.

I will check in on Bruin games and Khuz's development.  Laukzy was Laukzy.  4th liner with jump and reach, which I guess we figured we had in spades (Gaunce? Shore?)

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, SkolWild73 said:

I am not sure he is, but my thinking was that Braz was on a trial run to see if he could replace him at a lesser contract.  Only speculation on my part.  I can’t see room for both next year.

good news - trenin is signed for next 3 years at 3.5 hit

[OldDutchChip]

Just now, Pewterschmidt said:

I tuned into the Bruins v Kings last night to spot shadow on Khuz.  He played on the first line with Middlestadt and Pasta.  He looks good on the wing.  Wild should have moved him around our lineup to see what he was capable of, not simply make him a shut down 4th line C.  He looked fast AND capable last night.  Which makes me still wonder why the urgency to unload a 22 year old 2nd rounder for a 27 year old lumber wagon.  He came and went on that line.  Not sure coach was unhappy or if it was a match up thing.

This may play out as a net neutral trade, but that will be the best case scenario for bill.  Maybe bill understood he was sending away more potential/talent than he was getting back and the move was for a player who can be more effective in post season this year and next, but I think it's another example of bill outsmarting himself.

I will check in on Bruin games and Khuz's development.  Laukzy was Laukzy.  4th liner with jump and reach, which I guess we figured we had in spades (Gaunce? Shore?)

ARGH! 

but i bet he misses his time with Jones and Shore!

thanks for the scoop Pewty!

[SkolWild73]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

good news - trenin is signed for next 3 years at 3.5 hit

I know.  Maybe they can trade him for the 6th…

[Will D. Ness]

12 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I am not sure he is, but my thinking was that Braz was on a trial run to see if he could replace him at a lesser contract.  Only speculation on my part.  I can’t see room for both next year.

I think Brazo's deficiencies are making Trenin look pretty good.  3.5M good?  No.

[Thatoneguy]

You know what's even better than center depth though? 

28 year old rookies that are huge, and can't skate well. 

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Khusnutdinov is a good skater. His NHL skills seemed to be below average outside of skating right now. Perhaps the Wild could have gotten something more in return, but I think they'll be okay given the prospect pool they have to add more talent in the not too distant future.

I do not disagree with your assessment of Khuz right now.  I do get bothered when the faithful continue to say the "our lead pipe lock prospect pool is so deep we can (effectively) piss away assets, and not get comparable assets in return".  this is something bill does, combined with overpaying (ie: Trenin, NMC's). 

That GM'ing strategy is like saying we lose money on every widget we sell but we make it up in volume.  That is not a sustainable strategy bill!

[FredJohnson]

The Wild Can't Underestimate the Value Of Centers

 

The organization may not have underestimated the value of centers, BUT they sure haven't had any number 1 centers.

None. Zip. Nada.

Just a long list of 3rd, a few 2nd and occasionally 4th line centers that have to play on the 1st line because they are the best we got. 🤮

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, SkolWild73 said:

Not sure if Braz is that player or not.  Maybe they wanted to see if he could fill the Trenin role and move on from him to save some money next year?  I doubt Braz is going to command a huge raise.

This is a plausible justification that makes the most sense, if it plays out like this.

Again, if this is the justification it sure feels like bill is trying to play chess, when checkers is the game right now.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

Billy is starting to waste picks just like many of the previous GMs towards the end of their tenure.....which is not good for the team success. 

I'm picking up on this too.  bill's moves are starting to feel a little desperate

[FredJohnson]

17 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Here we go indeed....

Just pay the guy.

I have a feeling GMBG will have to. Otherwise, Rossi will be traded for pennies on the dollar. Other GMs know what's up with what's going down.

[FredJohnson]

6 hours ago, Patrick said:

Russo is a drama queen. I don't put too much credibility on any of his "reporting".

He is. I'm also sure he's being fed this information. I agree with you, Patrick, that this may be a bluff... a bluff via reporters to get Rossi's side to lower their numbers.

[Burnt Toast]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

Marat in the AHL

He didn’t want to play in the AHL, that was one reason he got moved. He’s a fun fringe fourth liner. He needs to develop some more skills because he lacks size/ weight. It will be fun watching him, could he maybe have a Sam Steel kind of career? It will be interesting to see how Boston handles him as he’ll still be an RFA. Thanks for your posts BTW. Like you said getting KK extended is priority uno. 

[mnfaninnc]

3 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Dino wasn't even going to be with the Wild after the Nyquist trade due to his salary cap hit. The trade doesn't really seem so bad when you look at how the Wild might have been looking to replace him next season with more talent on the way.

It's still way too early to tell.

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Burnt Toast said:

He didn’t want to play in the AHL, that was one reason he got moved. He’s a fun fringe fourth liner. He needs to develop some more skills because he lacks size/ weight. It will be fun watching him, could he maybe have a Sam Steel kind of career? It will be interesting to see how Boston handles him as he’ll still be an RFA. Thanks for your posts BTW. Like you said getting KK extended is priority uno. 

cheers mate 🍻 

He didn’t want to play in the AHL, that was one reason he got moved. that's the thing - we need to get these players to understand that this is the reality. there is a process to this. so if he wanted NHL or nothing, then i get the move. but that is an unknown, unless he flat out said so in the media. none of these players want to be demoted, but it's business and a necessary move for variety of reasons. i also disagree a bit on fringe fourth liner and steel comparison (i know i am in the minority) but he has very good skills hidden and just need to unlock them - they were there in KHL - i did look at a ton of his highlights and really liked him as a prospect. We should have taken a bit more time to see who he can be. But oh well. Too late. 

[Burnt Toast]

19 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

they sure haven't had any number 1 centers.

I’d love to see them add one after extending KK. Rossi has been improving every year, maybe he can fill that role. Any examples of players his size fitting the bill?