Article: The Wild Can't Underestimate the Value Of Centers

[Tony Abbott]

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[Citizen Strife]

Here we go indeed....

Just pay the guy.

[SkolWild73]

16 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Here we go indeed....

Just pay the guy.

I wonder what the numbers are for what the Rossi camp wants and where the Wild are.  Will be interesting to see in the off-season.  

[Roy Randa]

If the gm trades Rossi the owner should fire him on the spot

[Imyourhuckleberry]

Brazeau is now scoring goals at a better pace than Khusnutdinov did for the Wild. More importantly, perhaps, for players with at least 8 games played, the even strength goals against per 60 leaders for the Wild are Nyquist and Brazeau. Brazeau has played around 68 minutes and only 1 goal has been scored against his line even strength.

For Boston forwards, only Cole Koepka had a lower goals against per 60 than Brazeau among their regular forwards(those with 20+ games).

Guerin traded for Nyquist and Brazeau after the Wild had games where they gave up 3, 3, 6, and 5 goals against in regulation(4.25 per game), with only 1 of them being empty net.

Also, before folks completely write off Buffalo, they went into Winnipeg and beat them 5-3 after the Wild smothered their offense much of the last game. Since adding Nyquist, only 1 team(Carolina) in the NHL has a lower goals against per game than the Wild.

The Wild's PK has been a tad better since adding Nyquist as well. Hopefully the defense and goaltending can remain stingy against better competition.

[Fezig]

I don't buy the Rossi trade rumors. He might get slightly overpaid but at this point what else can the Wild do if their cupboards are bare?

[Patrick]

Russo is a drama queen. I don't put too much credibility on any of his "reporting".

[MacGyver]

The next big contract that needs to be signed is Kaprizov. All others will be back burner until that dollar amount has been determined. If Kaprizov drags this out and stays mum past July then Rossi will be getting paid somewhere else. The Wild's entire hockey universe is now centered on a guy who is spending an awful lot of time on the IR. 

Edited Monday at 12:20 PM by MacGyver

[OldDutchChip]

10 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Brazeau is now scoring goals at a better pace than Khusnutdinov did for the Wild. More importantly, perhaps, for players with at least 8 games played, the even strength goals against per 60 leaders for the Wild are Nyquist and Brazeau. Brazeau has played around 68 minutes and only 1 goal has been scored against his line even strength.

For Boston forwards, only Cole Koepka had a lower goals against per 60 than Brazeau among their regular forwards(those with 20+ games).

Guerin traded for Nyquist and Brazeau after the Wild had games where they gave up 3, 3, 6, and 5 goals against in regulation(4.25 per game), with only 1 of them being empty net.

Also, before folks completely write off Buffalo, they went into Winnipeg and beat them 5-3 after the Wild smothered their offense much of the last game. Since adding Nyquist, only 1 team(Carolina) in the NHL has a lower goals against per game than the Wild.

The Wild's PK has been a tad better since adding Nyquist as well. Hopefully the defense and goaltending can remain stingy against better competition.

Brazeau is now scoring goals at a better pace than Khusnutdinov did for the Wild. what is your obsession with numbers? you think Nyquist and Braz have been a plus for us? do you think they were worth 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and two players on the cheap contract?

this pick and choose of the stats to fit your narrative is not telling the full story. 

Freddy G has scored 2 pts in his last 2 games, he is tied with Auston Matthews and Nikita Kucherov over the same span. Wild would be wise to extend him now before someone else picks him up!

[OldDutchChip]

1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and two players on the cheap contract - this was meant to cover bill's full trade portfolio from this year

[M_Nels]

39 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

you think Nyquist and Braz have been a plus for us?

I think Nyquist has been a plus. His scoresheet might not say but he has improved the PK and is still a good NHLer.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

57 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Brazeau is now scoring goals at a better pace than Khusnutdinov did for the Wild. what is your obsession with numbers? you think Nyquist and Braz have been a plus for us? do you think they were worth 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and two players on the cheap contract?

Simply an offset to all of the people whining about Khusnutdinov scoring a couple of goals for the Bruins--he still only has 5 shots on goal in 8 games. Dino had 550 minutes of even strength play with the Wild and posted only 2 goals. He had a lot of opportunities to do more.

The Wild gave up goals at a higher rate when Dino was on the ice than with the new players. It's quite possible the trade that so many were upset about is actually working out fine for the Wild in the short term.

Dino wasn't even going to be with the Wild after the Nyquist trade due to his salary cap hit. The trade doesn't really seem so bad when you look at how the Wild might have been looking to replace him next season with more talent on the way.

[OldDutchChip]

14 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

I think Nyquist has been a plus. His scoresheet might not say but he has improved the PK and is still a good NHLer.

If we compare Nyquist to Jones or any other AHLer that we play - then sure. But I am looking at collective outcome from this year for Bill - 

He moved 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, Marat and Lauko for Nyquist, Jiricek and Braz.

We can draw some narrow comparisons and make one of them stand out a bit more beneficial to us (Braz has a goal! hooray!), but as a whole - this is a massive fail from Billy.

Dallas doesn't need to try very hard to justify their trade deadline moves - they were very bold and the result - they repositioned them as SC contenders for YEARS.....and we could have made a play for Ranty too to pair him w Kap using the above pick ammunition and added Rossi (yes i know it's the lovable Rossi - but he ain't Rantannen)  or maybe Canes would be foolish enough to be satisfied with Ohgr? 

but we instead went after a very low risk / low reward players. And Jiri....is he going to play this year? if not - why?

 

[OldDutchChip]

Just now, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Simply an offset to all of the people whining about Khusnutdinov scoring a couple of goals for the Bruins--he still only has 5 shots on goal in 8 games. Dino had 550 minutes of even strength play with the Wild and posted only 2 goals. He had a lot of opportunities to do more.

The Wild gave up goals at a higher rate when Dino was on the ice than with the new players. It's quite possible the trade that so many were upset about is actually working out fine for the Wild in the short term.

Dino wasn't even going to be with the Wild after the Nyquist trade due to his salary cap hit. The trade doesn't really seem so bad when you look at how the Wild might have been looking to replace him next season with more talent on the way.

Marat sure had a lot of opportunities playing with AHLers. He could be in AHL doing some work just like Rossi when he was sent down - but we just gave up on the kid for what? Braz? How is the trade not bad if you give up both Marat and Lauko and a 6th? who were we bidding against for Braz? 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

How is the trade not bad if you give up both Marat and Lauko and a 6th? who were we bidding against for Braz? 

The Wild were not bringing Lauko back next year. Marat has a contract paying more than the Wild could afford this season on the NHL roster, so the Wild are getting an NHL player at the minimum contract value rather than an AHL player.

If neither of the players were in the team's future plans and Brazeau can be useful this season, is who they were bidding against that important? The chances of a 6th round pick loss haunting the Wild seems fairly remote.

There's no doubt Khusnutdinov could develop into a useful player. He wasn't delivering at the level the Wild would have liked right now and they maybe didn't think he was going to have major upside. They have players better or similar coming in next season and only so many roster spots.

[M_Nels]

10 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

but we instead went after a very low risk / low reward players. And Jiri....is he going to play this year? if not - why?

That is a casualty of the cap. Jiri is your moderate-high risk for potentially a very high reward. Nyquist was arguably worth the 2nd rounder based on your feelings about retention.

Nyquist & Braz are likely not on the roster next season, both stop gaps with Braz being a salary savings.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

The Wild were not bringing Lauko back next year. Marat has a contract paying more than the Wild could afford this season on the NHL roster, so the Wild are getting an NHL player at the minimum contract value rather than an AHL player.

If neither of the players were in the team's future plans and Brazeau can be useful this season, is who they were bidding against that important? The chances of a 6th round pick loss haunting the Wild seems fairly remote.

There's no doubt Khusnutdinov could develop into a useful player. He wasn't delivering at the level the Wild would have liked right now and they maybe didn't think he was going to have major upside. They have players better or similar coming in next season and only so many roster spots.

Neither Kap nor Ek is close to returning - so we have plenty of money - and if you think Bill doesn't know the status - that is absurd. 

Marat could still be here or in the NHL. and Lauko and 6th would have gotten this same return of Braz, if that was such a big desire from Bill. 

If neither of the players were in the team's future plans and Brazeau can be useful this season, is who they were bidding against that important? yes because you can (a) wait for them to mature, why give up so soon? or (b) use them for a better return or (c) actually don't overpay for yet another slow giant who will be buried on the bench during POs

They have players better or similar coming in next season and only so many roster spots. we have it so good that we can just dump a player after less than a full year? maybe we wait until these players get here? and don't say  yurov and zeev - those are not the same tier players. which bottom six players are knocking at the door? jones? 

 

[OldDutchChip]

7 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

That is a casualty of the cap. Jiri is your moderate-high risk for potentially a very high reward. Nyquist was arguably worth the 2nd rounder based on your feelings about retention.

Nyquist & Braz are likely not on the roster next season, both stop gaps with Braz being a salary savings.

so if Nyquist and Braz are out next year and Jiri is still developing (judging by his lack of ice time - he may just be work-in-progress) - do you think that giving up the following assets for this type of a return is the best use of our resources? 

1, 2, 3, 4, 6 + Lauko and Marat

is there maybe a better route that could have been taken?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

18 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

and don't say  yurov and zeev - those are not the same tier players.

Riley Heidt is the same tier of player as Khusnutdinov. Yurov and the free agent the Wild will presumably sign with their cap space should be better. Again, Khusnutdinov was not succeeding at a high level in the role the Wild had available.

The Wild did not have an elevated role available in future years as they have better players to fill those roles. Putting Khusnutdinov in the AHL to build his game could have been useful long-term, but we'll see what he develops into.

I'm not saying it sounded like a great deal to me, it's only that it may not end up being overly bad. The team is not being dominated with Brazeau on the ice even if it's taken him some time to get comfortable with the Wild.

Khusnutdinov is a good skater. His NHL skills seemed to be below average outside of skating right now. Perhaps the Wild could have gotten something more in return, but I think they'll be okay given the prospect pool they have to add more talent in the not too distant future.

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Riley Heidt is the same tier of player as Khusnutdinov. Yurov and the free agent the Wild will presumably sign with their cap space should be better. Again, Khusnutdinov was not succeeding at a high level in the role the Wild had available.

The Wild did not have an elevated role available in future years as they have better players to fill those roles. Putting Khusnutdinov in the AHL to build his game could have been useful long-term, but we'll see what he develops into.

I'm not saying it sounded like a great deal to me, it's only that it may not end up being overly bad. The team is not being dominated with Brazeau on the ice even if it's taken him some time to get comfortable with the Wild.

Khusnutdinov is a good skater. His NHL skills seemed to be below average outside of skating right now. Perhaps the Wild could have gotten something more in return, but I think they'll be okay given the prospect pool they have to add more talent in the not too distant future.

Riley Heidt is an all offense prospect - Beckman style of player - whose game is not the same responsive game that Marat had in his underused tool bag. So Heidt is out.

Yurov is a top 6 prospect, so again not a replacement.

There is nothing in the AHL that is a sure thing so it's a head scratcher of why we let a good asset go that early. 

I'm not saying it sounded like a great deal to me, it's only that it may not end up being overly bad. May not be overly bad...that is a horrible (but realistic) conclusion that at best - this won't be a total disaster.

But even so - it may yet be a total disaster soon enough - cause there is a high chance Bill decides that he spent already too much on them and resigns both (with NMC) and then brings in Nelson. That is the worse case scenario

[M_Nels]

35 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

so if Nyquist and Braz are out next year and Jiri is still developing (judging by his lack of ice time - he may just be work-in-progress) - do you think that giving up the following assets for this type of a return is the best use of our resources? 

1, 2, 3, 4, 6 + Lauko and Marat

is there maybe a better route that could have been taken?

Let's take Jiri out of this equation because he was a project from day 1, I mean the kid is only 21. Not everyone can step on the ice day 1 like Faber did and play 1st or 2nd pair. (That's a whole other can of worms opened yesterday).

Was he worth a mid-late 1st round and some filler? We'll see but he has a ton of upside and adds coveted size to the back end. He's up with the big club to spend time with Andy Ness and get practices with the big club. 

As far as Lauko and Marat for Nyquist and Braz, it's a lateral move with 1 foot forward. Lauko was never in long-term plans, Khus evidently wasn't either because of salary and lack of production. Debatable whether that will come back to bite or not, I liked the kid but it may come back to bite, it may not. The 2nd rounder would be nice to have I'll give you that but it was all about retention.

The 4th & 6th are basically nothing picks so I'm not crying myself to sleep over those.

 

[Will D. Ness]

32 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

The Wild were not bringing Lauko back next year. Marat has a contract paying more than the Wild could afford this season on the NHL roster, so the Wild are getting an NHL player at the minimum contract value rather than an AHL player.

If neither of the players were in the team's future plans and Brazeau can be useful this season, is who they were bidding against that important? The chances of a 6th round pick loss haunting the Wild seems fairly remote.

There's no doubt Khusnutdinov could develop into a useful player. He wasn't delivering at the level the Wild would have liked right now and they maybe didn't think he was going to have major upside. They have players better or similar coming in next season and only so many roster spots.

The problem I have with this argument is the relative value left on the table.  Regardless of roster situation, we gave away the value and potential in a rookie on a RFA contract needlessly or maybe for other reasons not quantified.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

21 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Riley Heidt is an all offense prospect - Beckman style of player - whose game is not the same responsive game that Marat had in his underused tool bag. So Heidt is out.

If that's true, why has his WHL team been using him on the PK?

[OldDutchChip]

8 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Let's take Jiri out of this equation because he was a project from day 1, I mean the kid is only 21. Not everyone can step on the ice day 1 like Faber did and play 1st or 2nd pair. (That's a whole other can of worms opened yesterday).

Was he worth a mid-late 1st round and some filler? We'll see but he has a ton of upside and adds coveted size to the back end. He's up with the big club to spend time with Andy Ness and get practices with the big club. 

As far as Lauko and Marat for Nyquist and Braz, it's a lateral move with 1 foot forward. Lauko was never in long-term plans, Khus evidently wasn't either because of salary and lack of production. Debatable whether that will come back to bite or not, I liked the kid but it may come back to bite, it may not. The 2nd rounder would be nice to have I'll give you that but it was all about retention.

The 4th & 6th are basically nothing picks so I'm not crying myself to sleep over those.

 

Was he worth a mid-late 1st round and some filler? We'll see but he has a ton of upside and adds coveted size to the back end. He's up with the big club to spend time with Andy Ness and get practices with the big club. 

we can discard Jiri - but it does show the lack of forecast and planning for Bill. if we are patient with our assets (and Jiri cost a lot) and willing to be players for big game (Ranty, Miller) then we may not be talking about Nyquist and Braz and wondering when is Jiri's time. Braz got us size - is that going to be helpful for us in the PO? not likely - his time will be very slim and he won't deter any thing from our top 6 since he is not on the ice for that. It will be like Reaves on the bench barking but not actually doing anything. Actually not even Sure Braz is a feisty one or just big. And to use him as a screener - you have to play him and do we really want to play him in crucial situation?? And yes, Andy Ness is this dude that teaches kids to skate....but there is a skating coach with every club - are we really going to pretend that we have the best one out there? 

As far as Lauko and Marat for Nyquist and Braz, it's a lateral move with 1 foot forward. Lauko was never in long-term plans, Khus evidently wasn't either because of salary and lack of production. but did we have to pay that much for so little? and yes this was an overpay. braz was nowhere near the most coveted commodity and we gave boston way too much. 

The 4th & 6th are basically nothing picks so I'm not crying myself to sleep over those. but when you add it all together - we could likely combined these assets and look for a much better suited piece. these types of random moves show that there is no plan, there is no vision,  there is a constant delay - what did Bill say "not our time yet"......right, we'll wait patiently until another 5-10 years and reset

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

If that's true, why has his WHL team been using him on the PK?

who cares?