Article: Bill Guerin's Future Is Rooted In the Present

[OldDutchChip]

10 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I just can't buy into this. How do you get rid of the contracts? You let them play themselves out. You install a 7 year limit on contracts, 8 if it's a resigning by the team that owns the contract. You grandfather in the other contracts and move on. We agree that the contracts needed to be stopped, but for other teams to use Shea Weber as LTIR fodder and also Carey Price, this is the exact same thing in a different format. But, none of these deals were ever meant to get to the end with the player still playing. 

So, yes, I feel that the Wild got singled out in this, and they were really the only one's punished to such a degree. To make the playoffs in 4/5 of those years (likely) is an FU to the NHL for the penalties. Other franchises shouldn't have gotten a get out of jail free card by placing these guys on LTIR, which is completely unfair. 

So, who would it have hurt if the NHL said no more to the contracts, grandfathered them in or allowed the teams to remedy the contracts? Nobody. We're talking about 5-7 contracts out of 690. But, that also means that the players are penalized too as $15m in actual money doesn't get spent on them for 5 years (which should have been higher but LTIR swallowed it up). I think even Phoenix took on one of these deals and didn't use LTIR so they could hit the cap floor. 

The players got smoked in this negotiation and shouldn't have allowed it. But, there is still the reality that Guerin did know what the interpretation of the rules would be and bought out RS and ZP anyway. And, had he wanted to, instead of resigning the value guys he had, he could have let them walk and backfilled with ELC players to fit through the penalties. I think that would have been a better use of the resources, but Guerin likes his steaks well done to almost shoe leather. To me, I think we would have gotten more value out of a few prospects learning in the N instead of staying in lower leagues. 

i get the frustration and unfairness to some degree, but to me it all boils down to who you gave the contract to and how it aged (really showing the lack of forecasting for Wild). if ovi or crosby became as unplayable as parise had become, then WAS and PIT would have a conundrum similar to ours - to consider a buy out and pay or let them play it out (good for them that both clubs knew what they were doing). but both Sid and Ovi are still playing at a high level that the money call for. other teams have used insurance to get out of it, like with CHI and DET. seems to me that MIN could have worked that out for ZP (insurance, as he had a ton of injuries that we can point to) and just kept RS. RS still plays OK enough to be partnering up with Spurge on third pair....and ZPs money could have been re-used. 

wild were initially dumb enough to throw so much money and term on these players without doing any due diligence of future league plans or forecasting on player value over time. combined, these were the most egregious examples of cap circumvention. billy continued the dumb tradition and bought them out, likely an impulsive decision rather than rational and here we are. 

there was warning that this will be dealt with by the league. and it was. but the league did not take away a get out of jail card (LTI) - it's just too bad we have never learn to use it. and still haven't - as evident by our lack of impactful moves during current TD. 🙂 

[mnfaninnc]

7 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

there was warning that this will be dealt with by the league. and it was. but the league did not take away a get out of jail card (LTI) - it's just too bad we have never learn to use it. and still haven't - as evident by our lack of impactful moves during current TD. 🙂 

I cannot remember the 5-7 deals that were there so I'll take a guess:

• Roberto Luongo-retired, both Canucks and Panthers charged cap penalties. 
• Carey Price-injured, LTIR traded (an LTIR candidate should not be allowed to be traded
• Shea Weber-injured and effectively retired but LTIR'd
• Ryan Suter-still playing and touring the central division
• Zach Parise-injured, bought out and finished up as a 4th liner
• Marian Hossa-injured, retired but LTIR'd and traded

There might be 2 more. Who had to pay the penalties? IIRC, Nashville matched Philly's offer on an offersheet. Philly also got out of a long term deal with a defensemen who was permanently injured and working for the league. But in this, the only real offenders punished were the Wild. You do not see the unfairness in this? Do we even need to discuss how Chicago got out of the Toews' deal? Maybe the answer lies in that we just don't have enough organized crime in St. Paul to know how to do it?

[OldDutchChip]

4 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I cannot remember the 5-7 deals that were there so I'll take a guess:

• Roberto Luongo-retired, both Canucks and Panthers charged cap penalties. 
• Carey Price-injured, LTIR traded (an LTIR candidate should not be allowed to be traded
• Shea Weber-injured and effectively retired but LTIR'd
• Ryan Suter-still playing and touring the central division
• Zach Parise-injured, bought out and finished up as a 4th liner
• Marian Hossa-injured, retired but LTIR'd and traded

There might be 2 more. Who had to pay the penalties? IIRC, Nashville matched Philly's offer on an offersheet. Philly also got out of a long term deal with a defensemen who was permanently injured and working for the league. But in this, the only real offenders punished were the Wild. You do not see the unfairness in this? Do we even need to discuss how Chicago got out of the Toews' deal? Maybe the answer lies in that we just don't have enough organized crime in St. Paul to know how to do it?

i think detroit got saved with LTI loophole and LA (Quick and maybe Carter? ) If Ovi and Sid deteriorated to ZP level and each team bought them out (as silly as it now sounds, it was a possibility) then each team would pay the penalty (a hefty one) for the player. 

I only see the stupidity from the Wild side. First for the initial signings and second for not "smartly" getting out of the situation. ZP was a prime candidate to write off with LTI and Suter could still be playing (good zing about him touring the Central haha) 

Maybe the answer lies in that we just don't have enough organized crime in St. Paul to know how to do it? that or maybe this was the plan all along by Billy - to get rid of old guard and insert himself as tsar, one that will be unquestioned for the entirety of the buy-outs and likely longer than that. that's a genius way to ensure work stability!

[mnfaninnc]

17 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i think detroit got saved with LTI loophole

I forgot about Datsyuk

[OldDutchChip]

10 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I forgot about Datsyuk

+ Zetterberg and Franzen

[Dango]

Wasnt there something  with Ilya  Kovulchuck another one cant remember exactly

[mnfaninnc]

12 minutes ago, Dango said:

Wasnt there something  with Ilya  Kovulchuck another one cant remember exactly

There was and it was with NJ. Kovalchuk went/wanted to go back to the K. Somehow, NJ got out of the contract.