Article: The Dallas Stars Just Upped the Ante For the Wild's "Christmas Morning"

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

A week ago, I would have said there was a solid plan forward. Then, in trading out MaRat, I just tossed my hands in the air and see no plan. Breezers might work out and I believe he's a late bloomer, but why are you trading out guys from the '20 draft? I'd really like to know what they didn't like about MaRat.

yes to this! and then we also add Lauko. and then why not yet another pick? 😆

[PiranhasOnIce]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

That would likely be the case without the NMC clause. Hopefully, Kaprizov, should we be forced to go this route, would have 3-5 teams on his list so that we could establish a bidding war. If not, I suspect the return will look more like something Carolina got for Rantanen. 

I think we go get ourselves a Tkachuk from Ottawa.   Heard grumblings that the whole anthem bit from Canadian fans didn't set well with him.  Good chance Ottawa misses the playoffs again.

Brady and a kicker for our Rooskiy and we build around a new centerpiece.   Go 'merica! 

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, PiranhasOnIce said:

I think we go get ourselves a Tkachuk from Ottawa.   Heard grumblings that the whole anthem bit from Canadian fans didn't set well with him.  Good chance Ottawa misses the playoffs again.

Brady and a kicker for our Rooskiy and we build around a new centerpiece.   Go 'merica! 

how about instead we keep the superstar that we have and send faber for brady. 

kaprizov and brady on the same line will be very good. 

[PiranhasOnIce]

1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

how about instead we keep the superstar that we have and send faber for brady. 

kaprizov and brady on the same line will be very good. 

I'd do it in a heartbeat. 

Don't get me wrong- Kaprizov is all-world talent. Top 5-er.  I'd hate to lose him and don't want to see him go.

I just don't think Faber would be enough here.  Or Faber + Boldy.  Or Faber + Rossi.  Maybe all 3...but that may be too much to stomach for the franchise. 

Maybe 2 of the three plus Spurg. 

 

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, PiranhasOnIce said:

I'd do it in a heartbeat. 

Don't get me wrong- Kaprizov is all-world talent. Top 5-er.  I'd hate to lose him and don't want to see him go.

I just don't think Faber would be enough here.  Or Faber + Boldy.  Or Faber + Rossi.  Maybe all 3...but that may be too much to stomach for the franchise. 

Maybe 2 of the three plus Spurg. 

 

i think Faber has reached a Peak value for us and him and Rossi (sign and trade?) would def be enough to get Brady (plus a 2nd rd pick) from OTT. might not need to include Rossi if Brady becomes more unhappy as the season wines down 🙂

Ain't happening though with our creative mastermind running the show! Faber seems to be untouchable and Rossi is likely to be gifted off to someone. 

 

[SkolWild73]

7 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Why would you think that this has something to do with resigning Kaprizov? It can't be done until July 1st. The best we can hope for at this point are preliminary talks. 

Your points on our medical staff I think are spot on!

I think the rule is that preliminary talks cannot start until a few days before July 1st if a player still has a year in their contract.  Not saying they for sure haven’t, but you would think they are waiting.

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, SkolWild73 said:

I think the rule is that preliminary talks cannot start until a few days before July 1st if a player still has a year in their contract.  Not saying they for sure haven’t, but you would think they are waiting.

So, what do you call it when you sit down for a cup of coffee at the 4 Nations with an agent or 2? You've got to think they cross paths for casual conversation at times. Even Talbot's agent strolled on by and had a quick conversation with him at the draft. I've got to believe that something has been said, even if it is simply, Kap likes it in MN.

[mnfaninnc]

6 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

i think Faber has reached a Peak value for us and him and Rossi (sign and trade?) would def be enough to get Brady (plus a 2nd rd pick) from OTT. might not need to include Rossi if Brady becomes more unhappy as the season wines down 🙂

I really don't think this will happen and caution against moving Faber, but if we did, I could see in the future a right side consisting of Jiricek, Buium and Spacek. I believe Buium is plenty comfortable playing the right side in though he's an LHS. I think this would pressure Lambos a bit too, as we'd need him to be better, or, we simply go with Midsy, Jimmy, and Chissy on the left side. Lambos can be the 7th or a callup. 

Even though I'd hate seeing Faber go the other way, I value Tkachuk more highly than anyone outside of Kaprizov on this team. And, I would certainly be excited about buying my Tkachuk jersey which would hopefully be the white 78s that we turn to full time next season. Buyouts are mostly over, time for a visual reset!

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

I really don't think this will happen and caution against moving Faber, but if we did, I could see in the future a right side consisting of Jiricek, Buium and Spacek. I believe Buium is plenty comfortable playing the right side in though he's an LHS. I think this would pressure Lambos a bit too, as we'd need him to be better, or, we simply go with Midsy, Jimmy, and Chissy on the left side. Lambos can be the 7th or a callup. 

Even though I'd hate seeing Faber go the other way, I value Tkachuk more highly than anyone outside of Kaprizov on this team. And, I would certainly be excited about buying my Tkachuk jersey which would hopefully be the white 78s that we turn to full time next season. Buyouts are mostly over, time for a visual reset!

all these contenders are not sitting back and waiting like us. they are pro-actively working to get better and sometimes move pieces around and take chances.

do we want to continue the waiting game? i agree it's almost impossible to foresee Billy dealing Faber, so it would almost take a new GM to think so out-of-the-box.... but faber is the one piece that could be dangled and get us BT or similar type of player (Marchenko from Columbus?).

faber's value is at all time high. he's got that 4 nations glow still and that respected/applauded suteresque minute muching ability. everyone is in love with him so go ahead make us an offer. but i think there's a better chance kap and yurov are moved, before bill even considers touching the golden boy. 

 

[MacGyver]

Faber will not go anywhere anytime soon. He's a Billy boy and a feather in Billy's trade cap and he took a hometown discount to be here.  He seems to be wore down and frustrated right now. When Crosby got the empty netter against him he threw a tantrum beating his stick on the glass. Never seen that kind of frustration from him before. 

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Faber will not go anywhere anytime soon. He's a Billy boy and a feather in Billy's trade cap and he took a hometown discount to be here.  He seems to be wore down and frustrated right now. When Crosby got the empty netter against him he threw a tantrum beating his stick on the glass. Never seen that kind of frustration from him before. 

yeap he will not. but let's assume we strike out on marner (which i actually hope we do). and then nelson is re-signed somehow with avs (possibly on a cheaper deal to keep going for the cup).  and boeser stays with Vancouver (please). ehlers stays with WIN.....is there any one left in the free agency? donato? granlund? giroux? yuck!

if that is the reality - we have to be thinking of how to escape it. the only way is through trades. and to get someone good, you have to pay up. boldy and rossi won't get you that star. zeev and yurov are too young and unproven and both should be kept. only faber can get you a star (Kap of course is not in play....i hope) 

but i know i know and agree - bill won't do it. but i think he has to. there may not another way. 

[mnfaninnc]

35 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

all these contenders are not sitting back and waiting like us. they are pro-actively working to get better and sometimes move pieces around and take chances.

do we want to continue the waiting game?

This has been hard to look at, but it's been necessary. "All these contenders" is the main phrase here. But here's the thing, this is not us at this time. No, we're in the pack with the Devils, Red Wings, Senators, Flames, Canucks, and maybe even the Kings. We're not contenders and shouldn't be fooled into believing we are. 

We need at least the rest of this season of development. We're headed in the right direction. We've gotten past thinking the golden ticket lies within a 1st round pick. If anyone needed to be fired, I would have to say it's McLean. He's got to be doing a better job of getting these guys ready quicker. Iowa just lost 2 more in a row over the weekend. That coaching staff needs a makeover. And speaking of makeovers, I believe the front office needs that as well. Gone should be the gritty guys who are our player development guys. In should be new blood, guys who think differently.

For starters, you've got all these puck moving undersized defenders. Everyone needs puck moving defenders, yet we do a real poor job of developing them to make them attractive. If you're drafting that type of player, then, you have to be developing them properly and nobody is there doing it. Does anyone see any real attempt to get in a respected defensive teacher? A guy who can explain gaps and how to use them, explain how to put a guy into the wall without taking the brunt of the hit, teach how to use the stick effectively and when and when not to jump into the play. With the draft capital we've used, you could have a whole assembly line of this particular type of guy who would be useful in trading for the guy you're missing.

We've done a real poor job in developing a team that can contend. This offseason, I think Sully will be available. If Heinzy can't get us over the finish line and this thing stalls out, Sully would likely be our next coach. If Heinzy gets us there this season, Sully probably sits in the front office for a time. I wouldn't just let Heinzy go, he seems like a good hockey man. I think he could work out in the FO too. I don't really have an idea about the scouts, but Guerin has got to sit down with Judd and iron out the body types he wants. These guys do not seem to be on the same page, and one question that should be added to the list is "are you willing to build up your body with strength and weight to be NHL ready?" I don't think these kids are being asked that question where you look deep into their eyes when they say "yes." 

To his credit, Rossi finally did that and it brought huge results. For all of the writers who point out that the big Wild didn't bring them in after X amount of points, let's remember what actually made Rossi successful: 1 offseason where he put on a lot of bulk to go along with his natural skill. If he doesn't do that, he's probably in a Swedish spritzer league by now. It was that specific commitment on his behalf that made him the threat he is today. It has absolutely nothing to do with his time in Iowa. Nothing he did in Iowa prepared him for the NHL, it was only that 1 offseason that did it.

Well that felt good. I think I needed to get something off my chest.

Edited Tuesday at 01:11 AM by mnfaninnc

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

This has been hard to look at, but it's been necessary. "All these contenders" is the main phrase here. But here's the thing, this is not us at this time. No, we're in the pack with the Devils, Red Wings, Senators, Flames, Canucks, and maybe even the Kings. We're not contenders and shouldn't be fooled into believing we are. 

We need at least the rest of this season of development. We're headed in the right direction. We've gotten past thinking the golden ticket lies within a 1st round pick. If anyone needed to be fired, I would have to say it's McLean. He's got to be doing a better job of getting these guys ready quicker. Iowa just lost 2 more in a row over the weekend. That coaching staff needs a makeover. And speaking of makeovers, I believe the front office needs that as well. Gone should be the gritty guys who are our player development guys. In should be new blood, guys who think differently.

For starters, you've got all these puck moving undersized defenders. Everyone needs puck moving defenders, yet we do a real poor job of developing them to make them attractive. If you're drafting that type of player, then, you have to be developing them properly and nobody is there doing it. Does anyone see any real attempt to get in a respected defensive teacher? A guy who can explain gaps and how to use them, explain how to put a guy into the wall without taking the brunt of the hit, teach how to use the stick effectively and when and when not to jump into the play. With the draft capital we've used, you could have a whole assembly line of this particular type of guy who would be useful in trading for the guy you're missing.

We've done a real poor job in developing a team that can contend. This offseason, I think Sully will be available. If Heinzy can't get us over the finish line and this thing stalls out, Sully would likely be our next coach. If Heinzy gets us there this season, Sully probably sits in the front office for a time. I wouldn't just let Heinzy go, he seems like a good hockey man. I think he could work out in the FO too. I don't really have an idea about the scouts, but Guerin has got to sit down with Judd and iron out the body types he wants. These guys do not seem to be on the same page, and one question that should be added to the list is "are you willing to build up your body with strength and weight to be NHL ready?" I don't think these kids are being asked that question where you look deep into their eyes when they say "yes." 

To his credit, Rossi finally did that and it brought huge results. For all of the writers who point out that the big Wild didn't bring them in after X amount of points, let's remember what actually made Rossi successful: 1 offseason where he put on a lot of bulk to go along with his natural skill. If he doesn't do that, he's probably in a Swedish spritzer league by now. It was that specific commitment on his behalf that made him the threat he is today. It has absolutely nothing to do with his time in Iowa. Nothing he did in Iowa prepared him for the NHL, it was only that 1 offseason that did it.

i'd like to believe Billy holds honest exit interviews and will make the right call but....i'd be lying to you if i believed it! as for who is next if Hienzy goes....Sully is Pitts, Billy is Pitts..... we need to break the same-old and get ahead of the times and not play catchup. this will only happen if they clean house, and remove Billy and loose these legacy connections....so i'm actually against Sully. 

as for our place .... i think we are entering a brutal time here. i think Kap will inevitably NOT sign off in July. free agency has never been our friend and will likely see Marner (somewhere else, thankfully) Jets retaining their group, Boeser back w Van and Nelson resigned with COL. But even if Nelson goes back, we'd have to pay up and it won't be 3 per. it be closer to 8. we then go after what we know - Donato? Granlund? this is amazingly gloom outlook. if Yurov and Zeev are NOT kaprizov 2.0 and Makar 2.0 we are screwed. 

you do bring up valid points re development in Iowa but there may be more urgent needs to take care of here in the NHL. 

[mnfaninnc]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

you do bring up valid points re development in Iowa but there may be more urgent needs to take care of here in the NHL.

I say give Guerin's guys (drafted guys) a chance. They're not here yet and we really don't know how they will mesh. I think it was ThatOneGuy who said he has until offseason of '27 to have a contender. Otherwise, that's when you clean house. 

Sully's got 2 rings on his finger from coaching. He changed that Pittsburgh team from run and gun to defensively responsible, and had them keep scoring. Yet, he's got a team now that isn't very good at being defensively responsible (not from coaching, just from their makeup). Karlsson has been a disaster.

If he comes over, let's just see how this 3 headed monster can work! Guerin does want a style similar to what Heinzy and Sully coach. He just doesn't have the players for it, completely.

[MacGyver]

45 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

yeap he will not. but let's assume we strike out on marner (which i actually hope we do). and then nelson is re-signed somehow with avs (possibly on a cheaper deal to keep going for the cup).  and boeser stays with Vancouver (please). ehlers stays with WIN.....is there any one left in the free agency? donato? granlund? giroux? yuck!

if that is the reality - we have to be thinking of how to escape it. the only way is through trades. and to get someone good, you have to pay up. boldy and rossi won't get you that star. zeev and yurov are too young and unproven and both should be kept. only faber can get you a star (Kap of course is not in play....i hope) 

but i know i know and agree - bill won't do it. but i think he has to. there may not another way. 

I agree with your views on Marner, Nelson, Boeser and Ehlers. I don't see any of them as the missing piece but just a piece. If Kaprizov moves on down the road and Billy with him then I think anything is on the table. Depending on who we get as a new GM it could be a complete tear down. As you say free agency has never been good for the Wild. Players are not excited to come here. Unless they are from here gave their best years somewhere else and want to play their last year or two at home. No winning culture and a high tax rate and fly over country I'm sure are part of the reasons we can't attract top tier players. I would feel better about Kaprizov resigning had he chosen to come here but he was forced to be here. It was here or no NHL for you! And it was still somewhat contentious to get him signed. 

 

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

So, what do you call it when you sit down for a cup of coffee at the 4 Nations with an agent or 2? You've got to think they cross paths for casual conversation at times. Even Talbot's agent strolled on by and had a quick conversation with him at the draft. I've got to believe that something has been said, even if it is simply, Kap likes it in MN.

I am sure something like that has, but probably not term or dollar amount.

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

yeap he will not. but let's assume we strike out on marner (which i actually hope we do). and then nelson is re-signed somehow with avs (possibly on a cheaper deal to keep going for the cup).  and boeser stays with Vancouver (please). ehlers stays with WIN.....is there any one left in the free agency? donato? granlund? giroux? yuck!

if that is the reality - we have to be thinking of how to escape it. the only way is through trades. and to get someone good, you have to pay up. boldy and rossi won't get you that star. zeev and yurov are too young and unproven and both should be kept. only faber can get you a star (Kap of course is not in play....i hope) 

but i know i know and agree - bill won't do it. but i think he has to. there may not another way. 

Maybe Duchene from Dallas?

[OldDutchChip]

39 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I say give Guerin's guys (drafted guys) a chance. They're not here yet and we really don't know how they will mesh. I think it was ThatOneGuy who said he has until offseason of '27 to have a contender. Otherwise, that's when you clean house. 

Sully's got 2 rings on his finger from coaching. He changed that Pittsburgh team from run and gun to defensively responsible, and had them keep scoring. Yet, he's got a team now that isn't very good at being defensively responsible (not from coaching, just from their makeup). Karlsson has been a disaster.

If he comes over, let's just see how this 3 headed monster can work! Guerin does want a style similar to what Heinzy and Sully coach. He just doesn't have the players for it, completely.

i agree he is a great coach but the change brings yet more time to adjust to new philosophy and yet more patience 🙂 guess not much we can do but continue to wait....

[Dango]

The Wild are going to have 5 forwards 2 defensive FAs in the next 2 summers so were going to get some players that arent going to be Brady Tkachukesque ,  i figure 1 or 2 are fills from within on offense and probably  both defence guys are as well and who knows if Trenin and Hartzy are kept or not so we might as well also figure those possible replacements .   

 

[OldDutchChip]

26 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

I agree with your views on Marner, Nelson, Boeser and Ehlers. I don't see any of them as the missing piece but just a piece. If Kaprizov moves on down the road and Billy with him then I think anything is on the table. Depending on who we get as a new GM it could be a complete tear down. As you say free agency has never been good for the Wild. Players are not excited to come here. Unless they are from here gave their best years somewhere else and want to play their last year or two at home. No winning culture and a high tax rate and fly over country I'm sure are part of the reasons we can't attract top tier players. I would feel better about Kaprizov resigning had he chosen to come here but he was forced to be here. It was here or no NHL for you! And it was still somewhat contentious to get him signed. 

 

yup exactly! hence my maybe overly aggressive views on what we needed to do for him to stay. we don't have the luxury of FL or NY, we have to work harder to keep players such as Kaprizov. i know that people love Rossi and Faber. and i love cheering for them. but reality is we have NEVER had a Kaprizov level player. Rossi and Faber are good players but good is not enough. For Kaprizov to stay it would have to be either a cultural fit or success or money (in order of importance, i believe) the only thing we can really offer is money. and with Cap increase, we are not the only ones. 

[OldDutchChip]

20 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Maybe Duchene from Dallas?

i guess

maybe fleury stays for couple more years

get nick foligno to join his bro

pick up dumba when he is cut

[Pewterschmidt]

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

but Guerin has got to sit down with Judd and iron out the body types he wants. These guys do not seem to be on the same page,

Prediction: as Guerin’s seat gets hotter Brackett becomes the sacrifice to the hockey gods and gets the blame for the lack of post season success.  

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

i agree he is a great coach but the change brings yet more time to adjust to new philosophy and yet more patience 🙂 guess not much we can do but continue to wait....

Heinzy has prepared the Wild to play a very structured system. Sully plays a similar structured game. I don't think the leap will be hard for the Wild, probably just a few details. 

[mnfaninnc]

12 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

i guess

maybe fleury stays for couple more years

get nick foligno to join his bro

pick up dumba when he is cut

These all look like bad ideas, in fact, I'm twitching a bit just thinking about them. It's like the Navy Federal Credit Union commercials.

[mnfaninnc]

10 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Prediction: as Guerin’s seat gets hotter Brackett becomes the sacrifice to the hockey gods and gets the blame for the lack of post season success.

This could happen sooner rather than later, but I think a more plausible action is for he and Guerin to finally sit down and get on the same page about what Guerin wants in his prospect pool. With our current pool, we can now be pickier. 

Right now, I think OCL has given Guerin passes on not making round 2. That will soon change, and you'll know it changes when Guerin starts sacrificing future assets for now in a hurry. It's probably in OCL's best interest to not put any pressure on Guerin and if he's letting him go to do it more surprisingly.