Article: The Dallas Stars Just Upped the Ante For the Wild's "Christmas Morning"

[Tony Abbott]

View full article

[Citizen Strife]

Dallas and Colorado are going to pay a lot for the hope they win this or next year.  At least in Dallas's case, they have conference championship experience to fall back on to make decisions like these.  Colorado has won a cup, so they are going to do everything they can right now.  They are going to pay for it eventually, having to offload top stars to keep the ones they have.  It's going to wreck their depth if it hasn't already.  Nelson for the proposed $7-8m doesn't strike me as a smart move to make.  Kinda glad they balked.

That said, Minnesota has none such evidence to do the same thing.  Say they spent all that stuff to get Nelson, Coyle, or even Rantanen.  You could say, "Well at least they did SOMETHING!"  But if that doesn't work in a year or two, then you just end up in the same dead end rut Toronto does: All stars, no wins.

Keep Kaprizov for 5-8 years, then it doesn't matter what Dallas or Colorado do.

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Citizen Strife

[SkolWild73]

I had Dallas as the best team before the trade and this obviously makes them better this year, but I think they may have shortened their Championship window by doing so.  Without some magic this off-season, they are going to lose a bunch of solid players next year.  If they win the Cup this year, I guess it doesn't matter, but if not, I think it will be much more difficult for them going forward.  As a Wild fan, I am hoping Ranty is not the player he has been the last 4 seasons playing with MacKinnon and averaging almost 1.3 points per game.  I hope he is closer to the player that scored 66 points in the 73 games he has played without MacKinnon.

As far as Colorado goes, yes, they are probably better than they were before the made all these trades, but I don't see the trades making them any more of a contender than if the Wild signed Nelson instead of them.  Basically, they gave up Ranty for Necas and Drury, which I would say made them slightly worse.  Adding Lingren probably made them about even.  The Coyle trade, they lose Mittelstadt, so not sure they got that much better with that trade.  Mittelstadt had 34 points for them while Coyle had scored 22 this year.  That leaves Nelson.  Considering how almost everyone here did not want us to make a run at him, I don't see how it makes a team that was tied for points with us a contender now.  If it makes them one, then we should have all been wanting him, because it would have made us one too.

[Enforceror]

6 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I had Dallas as the best team before the trade and this obviously makes them better this year, but I think they may have shortened their Championship window by doing so.  Without some magic this off-season, they are going to lose a bunch of solid players next year.  If they win the Cup this year, I guess it doesn't matter, but if not, I think it will be much more difficult for them going forward.  As a Wild fan, I am hoping Ranty is not the player he has been the last 4 seasons playing with MacKinnon and averaging almost 1.3 points per game.  I hope he is closer to the player that scored 66 points in the 73 games he has played without MacKinnon.

As far as Colorado goes, yes, they are probably better than they were before the made all these trades, but I don't see the trades making them any more of a contender than if the Wild signed Nelson instead of them.  Basically, they gave up Ranty for Necas and Drury, which I would say made them slightly worse.  Adding Lingren probably made them about even.  The Coyle trade, they lose Mittelstadt, so not sure they got that much better with that trade.  Mittelstadt had 34 points for them while Coyle had scored 22 this year.  That leaves Nelson.  Considering how almost everyone here did not want us to make a run at him, I don't see how it makes a team that was tied for points with us a contender now.  If it makes them one, then we should have all been wanting him, because it would have made us one too.

Sound logic sir.

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Dallas and Colorado are going to pay a lot for the hope they win this or next year.  At least in Dallas's case, they have conference championship experience to fall back on to make decisions like these.  Colorado has won a cup, so they are going to do everything they can right now.  They are going to pay for it eventually, having to offload top stars to keep the ones they have.  It's going to wreck their depth if it hasn't already.  Nelson for the proposed $7-8m doesn't strike me as a smart move to make.  Kinda glad they balked.

That said, Minnesota has none such evidence to do the same thing.  Say they spent all that stuff to get Nelson, Coyle, or even Rantanen.  You could say, "Well at least they did SOMETHING!"  But if that doesn't work in a year or two, then you just end up in the same dead end rut Toronto does: All stars, no wins.

Keep Kaprizov for 5-8 years, then it doesn't matter what Dallas or Colorado do.

 

Dallas and Colorado are going to pay a lot for the hope they win this or next year.  pay a lot for hope....wow both teams are loaded to contend for next few years and you are making it seem like they are entering hell. are you wild's PR person? AVS have Makar, Mac and Necas (not to mentioned Nichushkin) as the top trio. STARS are loaded with great players and Benn's contract is expiring and they can tap into that freed up $. But we are somehow in a better spot? you realize that we will be the ones to pay Nelson that 8MM! 8 for Nelson next year. 4 for nyquist. that's 12 mil Ranty. so  please don't try to downplay the impact of what AVS and STARS have done. and stop comparing Toronto who have ONE superstar. you keep clinging on that but the reality is superstars win (see Vegas, Tampa, Panthers, Colorado, and yes EDM - i think SC final is a very good result).

Keep Kaprizov - yeap OK, no prob!

[mnfaninnc]

Christmas in July? I was answering Red Lake on a different thread about Buium. Here's the thing, if we sign him after his season, he HAS to be with the big club. He is not eligible for the A because he's 19 and his birthday is in December. 

I anticipate that Judd, Shooter and a chief amateur and professional scout will be hanging around where Denver plays for a couple of weekends. If Buium signs a contract with the Wild THIS year, it's us or a professional league in Europe. But, that would be one Christmas present.

Another Christmas present is Danila Yurov getting off a plane at MSP to sign his entry level deal which will likely come with bonuses. Having him over here, I imagine, will be a boost to our top 6. I believe he is plug and play. 

Other Christmas presents who should have a large impact are Jiricek and The Wall finally on the big club. The Wall could be cheap at $2.2m, but the rest will be on ELCs. 

I do not like much of the current UFAs. Do we really think Mitch Marner will come here? With the numbers he's put up, to me, Tavares is the odd man out. Tavares, I believe, is not a good fit, especially if it's a monster contract. So, I think it's going to be more of the trade area where we're going to need to focus on. Even though the cap is going up, some teams will have no money to fit everyone in. I think we should take advantage of our cap room that way, not just throw it at people like Smashville did. I'd also like to have plenty left over for the trade deadline, to maybe pick up a great player whom we can extend. 

Wait, what is that present? The one hiding behind a desk? Is...it...a...bb gun? No, it's an extension for our best player!!!! 

Since Shooter traded away some of our 2026 assets, an offersheet is likely out of the question. However, that doesn't seem to be the way that Shooter does business. I'm sure there will be some really good players who will be asking (privately or publicly) for a trade. Perhaps we can pick up a guy or 2 that way? These guys will mostly be forwards and we are missing that RHS sitting in Ovechkin's office. Could that guy be Jiricek? He wouldn't run the PP but would be a sniper sitting in that top left spot currently occupied by Zuccarello. 

I have no problem entering next season being one of those teams around the cap floor. Billy-spend it wisely. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, SkolWild73 said:

The Coyle trade, they lose Mittelstadt, so not sure they got that much better with that trade.  Mittelstadt had 34 points for them while Coyle had scored 22 this year.

I think this was a really good trade for the Avs. Mittlestadt is not a 3rd C, Coyle is. Nelson plays 2nd C, they are strong down the middle with Drury playing 4th C. As for roles, I think this makes them way better. The big question is, can they mesh before the playoffs since Dallas is their likely opponent?

Also, is Ranty better than Kaprizov? I would suggest they are on similar tiers right now. For taxes, the $96m contract that Ranty signed would equate to probably over $100m for us after state taxes. I did the homework for Carolina and it would have been the same as $98.1m. Carolina, was rumored to have offered more than that. I think this sets the market for Kaprizov, and I think it will be closer to $13m/yr. 8yrs- $104m.

[mnfaninnc]

14 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

But we are somehow in a better spot? you realize that we will be the ones to pay Nelson that 8MM! 8 for Nelson next year. 4 for nyquist. that's 12 mil Ranty.

I will be highly disappointed if this is how we choose to spend our money. Even if Boeser's name is in it. These are solid players but not difference makers. I don't mind the players, but I hate the contracts. Nyquist I could see on a 1 yr. deal for something in the $3.xxM. Nelson I could see in the $3.xxm. Boeser I could see in the $6ishm range. Nelson and Boeser should be giving significant hometown discounts to come aboard. 

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

I will be highly disappointed if this is how we choose to spend our money. Even if Boeser's name is in it. These are solid players but not difference makers. I don't mind the players, but I hate the contracts. Nyquist I could see on a 1 yr. deal for something in the $3.xxM. Nelson I could see in the $3.xxm. Boeser I could see in the $6ishm range. Nelson and Boeser should be giving significant hometown discounts to come aboard. 

i'm fairly certain his top 3 include two brocks and nyquist. and he'll likely be jumping ahead of everyone to throw those "fair" offers to each one. I very much doubt Nelson or Boeser will go lower than 8. so i hope that price will scare him but doubt it. i bet he'll sign 2 out of 3 (Nyquist, Nelson, BB) and Rossi will be cut loose to allow for the "splurge". 

[Up North Guy]

29 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Christmas in July? I was answering Red Lake on a different thread about Buium. Here's the thing, if we sign him after his season, he HAS to be with the big club. He is not eligible for the A because he's 19 and his birthday is in December. 

 

Not exactly sure what you are referring to here. If it is Buium, I don't believe the 19 year old thing applies. That is a deal between the NHL and Hockey Canada. Zeev is in the NCAA and can go to the A or the N.

[SkolWild73]

39 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

STARS are loaded with great players and Benn's contract is expiring and they can tap into that freed up $

They do have some great players, but they only have $5.3M in space next year, that is with Benn coming off.  They have 7 UFA's and 2 RFA's.  Unless they work some magic, they are likely to lose many of them next year.  Granted a core of Robertson, Ranty, Hintz, and Johnston is pretty damn good, but will be interesting to see how they fill out the rest of the team.

Stil can't believe they got Ranty for $12M.  All reports were that the Avs had a number in mind, and they did not want to exceed $12.6M.  Did Ranty turn down $12-$12.5M in Colorado or did the Avs not offer that?  Seems odd to me.

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think this was a really good trade for the Avs. Mittlestadt is not a 3rd C, Coyle is. Nelson plays 2nd C, they are strong down the middle with Drury playing 4th C. As for roles, I think this makes them way better. The big question is, can they mesh before the playoffs since Dallas is their likely opponent?

Also, is Ranty better than Kaprizov? I would suggest they are on similar tiers right now. For taxes, the $96m contract that Ranty signed would equate to probably over $100m for us after state taxes. I did the homework for Carolina and it would have been the same as $98.1m. Carolina, was rumored to have offered more than that. I think this sets the market for Kaprizov, and I think it will be closer to $13m/yr. 8yrs- $104m.

I can see how some think Coyle is an upgrade.   I just am not sold that the moves they made have put them on the level with Dallas, Winnipeg or Edmonton.  You never know once you reach the playoffs,  but to me, it seemed to be a lot to give up.  Time will tell on both trades.

[Quebec1648]

The best course of action for the Wild, is to make a trade. Brock Boeser is a decent player, but the Wild can do better. Make a trade for a legit top 6 player, and then use free agency for some budget bottom 6 fillers. Maybe Ottowa, New Jersey or Detroit would be willing trade partners for the right price.

[Dean]

Dallas and Colorado are going to be powerhouses for as long as the wild think there so called window is open. They will reload and retool year after year as long as Nate and ranntanen are productive. Kappy is relatively the same age as them so the windows are the same. The difference is how the gm s do there jobs . 
   Dallas will always have an advantage on us with no state tax. We will never  compete with them for free agents. Same with Colorado and there history. Colorado proved they can go out during the season and rebuild a team . Not us and our stupid contracts. We just make excuses for bad play or not being able to do your job. Fred is a good  hockey player Billy always says. Yeah but he ain’t winning you a cup. He’s your weak spot. Billy doesn’t see those things or address them. Dallas and Colorado do ! Dal an col have better younger high end talent than  the wild do or will have.  Zeev isn’t  makar and who knows what the Russian will be but to think next year they’ll be super stars is wishful thinking. Sounds like last summer when ohgren and Reilly were making this team and  were going to take  it to the nhl.  What if Zeev and the Russian aren’t great or good. The wilds rebuild will be another 10 years because stramel and  the other undersized prospects aren’t that valuable. Plus they punted this years draft. So this is the prospect pool Billy thinks builds a contender?  I don’t see it. To say we’re in a better position than dal or col is a joke.  They have there top guys signed. . We don’t and might not. For kappys sake I hope he gets out of here . Dal and colo are in a position to use draft picks to keep buying what they need and getting free free agents every summer . We aren’t . 
   As far as x -mas this summer with free agents. That’s laughable. What free agents?  Colo is going to offer Nelson a contract I heard on a podcast. Boeser was offered 8x5 for a 50 pt season average. He turned down. So the wild are going to give him 8 x8  for a historical 50 pt guy ?  Wow what a catch.  Marner isn’t coming here . Plus he’s going to get 12-13 mill depending on where he goes. So what free agents are the big x-mas present? It’ll be another Trenin. Over paid 4 th line left winger ! 
    The state and market were in dictates we need to gm a different way . We have taxes an a middle of the road market that doesn’t lend to players  marketing  there brand away from the game. Nobody cares about Minnesota or there players. So high end guys aren’t willing coming here. That means the gm needs to draft we’ll, make hockey trades or use picks and prospects to buy high end talent with term to get them to come here .  After Zeev and Russian the wild have nothing on the horizon that isn’t 5 years away from maybe being  a productive contributor for a cup tending team.   5 more years of kappy getting injured, aging or not being here.  Such a great window. I’ll take Dallas and Colorados window. We will be mediocre throughout there window and then the sharks and ducks will be kicking out ass. Our window will close as we sit here and wait for buyouts so we can then wait for Billy’s dumb clause contracts to expire so we can actually try to get some winners in here. Not playoff makers but playoff winners !  Yeah future is bright. Haha just keep waiting. Next year is the year is the wild motto. Don’t judge us on the here and now. Judge us on some make believe prospect list.  
    

[SkolWild73]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

please don't try to downplay the impact of what AVS and STARS have done

So, if we had traded Yurov, a 1st and a 3rd for Nelson, you would have thought that was a good move?  Hard to find an equal for the Coyle trade, but since they traded a 3C in Mittelstadt, a 2nd and an 18-year-old prospect, say we traded someone like Haight or Heidt and a 1st.  This message board would be loaded with comments on how we gave up too much for guys that would not have helped us make a run.  How is different for the Avs?  Do you think that the Avs are that much better than us when we are healthy?

[SkolWild73]

10 minutes ago, Dean said:

Plus they punted this years draft.

How did we punt this year's draft

 

[SkolWild73]

18 minutes ago, Dean said:

Dal and colo are in a position to use draft picks to keep buying what they need and getting free free agents every summer

Colorado has zero draft picks in the first three rounds for the next two years.  They have less than 9M to spend this offseason with 4 roster spots to fill

  Dallas does not have a 1st or 2nd this year and does not have a 1st and 3rd next year.  They also have just over $5M to spend this summer with 6 roster spots to fill.  

Not seeing how they are in position to use draft picks for trades or sign free agents.