Article: Could the Wild Offload Hartman At the Trade Deadline?

[Bekki Antonelli]

View full article

[FredJohnson]

Is Anaheim looking for cap eating contracts? Hartzy can guard Celebrini.

[SkolWild73]

If Hartman gets traded, it should be him and a pick for an upgrade, not for someone that might be better than him but may not be either, or a salary dump after the season to help sign someone better.

[Dean]

IMO Hartman isn’t an enforcer.  Hes a pest or rat type player. Hes no scary heavy weight but rather a guy you can make loose his cool easily. On the Judds hockey show they were talking about Hartman being bought out this summer. Whether it’s true or not idk. What it tells me is billy had no idea on valuation when he offered that contract.  4 mill an a nmc for a guy that had one stellar year and many years  of mid level stats . Who was going to offer Hartman Billy’s deal. No contender imo. Maybe a bottom feeder trying to get to cap floor. Those Clauses  he handed out were not league normal things to do to get bottom six guys to sign . Especially with the money he gave away . His rational was so b.s. for those contracts. He has no flexibility because of it. And now is a time when he needs flexibility . So if he wants flexibility he’ll have to pay for it because of his clauses. . 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

I'd guess 0% chance the Wild trade Hartman during this season. In the summer, his contract will alter to a 15-team no trade clause, so Guerin will have half of the league available to him if he wants to move Hartman then, but Hartman could also have a strong finish and make the contract not look so bad.

Hartman has played well the prior 3 seasons when healthy and he should be highly motivated for at least the rest of this season, particularly now that one of his closest friends from youth hockey has been added to the team.

[Willy the poor boy]

19 minutes ago, Dean said:

IMO Hartman isn’t an enforcer.  Hes a pest or rat type player. Hes no scary heavy weight but rather a guy you can make loose his cool easily. On the Judds hockey show they were talking about Hartman being bought out this summer. Whether it’s true or not idk. What it tells me is billy had no idea on valuation when he offered that contract.  4 mill an a nmc for a guy that had one stellar year and many years  of mid level stats . Who was going to offer Hartman Billy’s deal. No contender imo. Maybe a bottom feeder trying to get to cap floor. Those Clauses  he handed out were not league normal things to do to get bottom six guys to sign . Especially with the money he gave away . His rational was so b.s. for those contracts. He has no flexibility because of it. And now is a time when he needs flexibility . So if he wants flexibility he’ll have to pay for it because of his clauses. . 

It would be foolish to buy him out. But, it sounds like something Judd would say.

[Willy the poor boy]

And by the way, who needs KK when we've got Vinnie Hinny...

[WildRam]

Hartzy, NoJo, Fred, Trenin and Foligno should all be on the block for a new to slightly used set of hand towels. Whatever you have to do to get rid of at least two of them should be done this week, throw in a few prospects or draft picks if you have to and do your best to not retain salary. Billy is awful, he's failed to put a meaningful line together for Kap, overpaid and over extended half the team. Let a few guys leave who we'd love to have back and failed to move on from a single player at an opportune time. Package any combination of these five players, prospects who are still years away and draft picks and take the best you can get. 

To be honest, i'm just excited for the day BG resigns Nojo for 4 more at 5M and sells Oggy, Knut, and Yurov for Foligno's brother. Gotta make sure the boys are happy! 

[Willy the poor boy]

11 minutes ago, WildRam said:

Hartzy, NoJo, Fred, Trenin and Foligno should all be on the block for a new to slightly used set of hand towels. Whatever you have to do to get rid of at least two of them should be done this week, throw in a few prospects or draft picks if you have to and do your best to not retain salary. Billy is awful, he's failed to put a meaningful line together for Kap, overpaid and over extended half the team. Let a few guys leave who we'd love to have back and failed to move on from a single player at an opportune time. Package any combination of these five players, prospects who are still years away and draft picks and take the best you can get. 

To be honest, i'm just excited for the day BG resigns Nojo for 4 more at 5M and sells Oggy, Knut, and Yurov for Foligno's brother. Gotta make sure the boys are happy! 

I'm no BG fan but the team has performed well during his reign and this team is roughly 10 points ahead of missing the playoffs with a bunch of injuries through the season. He's done well finding players late in the season that help the team out, and those player you wanna get rid of have helped this team get to where they are.

On another note Russo says Trenin will be gone before the deadline...

[RazWild]

1 hour ago, FredJohnson said:

Is Anaheim looking for cap eating contracts? Hartzy can guard Celebrini.

Did you mean San Jose?

[Pewterschmidt]

30 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

On another note Russo says Trenin will be gone before the deadline...

Bro-yak has almost zero market value so for this to happen he’d need to be thrown into a package.  We’ll see… 

[RazWild]

1 hour ago, Dean said:

IMO Hartman isn’t an enforcer.  Hes a pest or rat type player. Hes no scary heavy weight but rather a guy you can make loose his cool easily. On the Judds hockey show they were talking about Hartman being bought out this summer. Whether it’s true or not idk. What it tells me is billy had no idea on valuation when he offered that contract.  4 mill an a nmc for a guy that had one stellar year and many years  of mid level stats . Who was going to offer Hartman Billy’s deal. No contender imo. Maybe a bottom feeder trying to get to cap floor. Those Clauses  he handed out were not league normal things to do to get bottom six guys to sign . Especially with the money he gave away . His rational was so b.s. for those contracts. He has no flexibility because of it. And now is a time when he needs flexibility . So if he wants flexibility he’ll have to pay for it because of his clauses. . 

Um, you can disagree with and dislike the contract.

But saying he wasn't worth the contract when he signed it or that he wasn't getting that on the open market is ludicrous. His literal listed market value according to both the Athletic and Evolving-Hockey at the time was squarely above $4M per. Specifically $5.3M a year according to the Athletic, and $4.8M a year according to Evolving-Hockey contract projections.

Dislike it all you want. But Hartman actually signed for less than market value at the time to stay in Minnesota. Furthermore, the NMC only encompassed the first year of the new contract and was retroactive to the last year of his prior contract. Essentially a single year and a half over the span of two different contracts. The full NMC ends on July 1st of this year. After which his contract protection drops to a 15-team M-NTC in year two, which is next year. And even further drops to just a 10-team M-NTC in year three, the final year of the contract.

In short. Hartman's contract is essentially designed to provide maximum flexibility and allow us the capability to trade him after this seasons end to directly coincide with the deadcap going away.

People shit on these contracts yet don't seem to either understand or accept the foresight and forward thinking that went into their signings. Or appreciate what current market values rates for players these days are actually at.

Lastly, for everyone's bitching about Hartman not being worth his contract. His current market value according to the Athletic is $3.6M for his current season of play. So just $400k under his $4M AAV.

So while Hartman may be underperforming his contract currently, it's not to the degree a large portion of the fanbase seems to think he is.

You want to bitch about him taking unnecessary penalties or stupid idiotic actions that get him suspended. That's justifiable and worth pointing out.

[RazWild]

1 hour ago, Willy the poor boy said:

It would be foolish to buy him out. But, it sounds like something Judd would say.

A buyout of Hartman's current contract would only cost an average of $1.17M per year over 4 years.

That's not that much, all things considered, and the Wild would only have around $3M total in deadcap between a Hartman buyout and the remainder of the Parise and Suter buyouts for 4 years.

With the cap going up $7M this off-season, another $7M after that in two years, and another final $9M in 3 years. That's $23M in additional cap space over the next three years.

A Hartman buyout costs very little in the grand scheme of things.

[Willy the poor boy]

7 minutes ago, RazWild said:

A buyout of Hartman's current contract would only cost an average of $1.17M per year over 4 years.

That's not that much, all things considered, and the Wild would only have around $3M total in deadcap between a Hartman buyout and the remainder of the Parise and Suter buyouts for 4 years.

With the cap going up $7M this off-season, another $7M after that in two years, and another final $9M in 3 years. That's $23M in additional cap space over the next three years.

A Hartman buyout costs very little in the grand scheme of things.

My main point is, if BG can't trade Hartman he needs to go. If they want him off the team trade him. I personally feel he has value.

The other thing is if you buy out Hartman you can't buy anyone else off the team for, I believe, 3 years. It just would make no sense.

I think you would eventually regret buying him out.

Edited 7 hours ago by Willy the poor boy

[Willy the poor boy]

36 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Bro-yak has almost zero market value so for this to happen he’d need to be thrown into a package.  We’ll see… 

Ya, I don't know what his value may be, but I'm really surprised he's even on the block.

[RazWild]

27 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

The other thing is if you buy out Hartman you can't buy anyone else off the team for, I believe, 3 years. It just would make no sense.

There is no limit to the number of buyouts a team can have at any one given time. Guerin could theoretically buyout the entire roster if he so chose to do so at the same time. The Wild could have only one player bought out, or they could have ten. Doesn't matter.

Nor is there any rule limiting the set number of buyouts a team can perform over a set period of time either. Guerin could buyout another one or even more players every year for the next 10 years if so chose for as long as he remained GM. Or his replacement for that matter.

Edited 7 hours ago by RazWild

[RazWild]

28 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

My main point is, if BG can't trade Hartman he needs to go. If they want him off the team trade him. I personally feel he has value.

Additionally, I agree Hartman has value. I would try to trade him first as well, if you can. If you can't, buy him out.

I don't mind the contract or think it's a dump by any measure. After the Stutzle incident, however, I'm fine moving him or buying him out.

The $4M in cap space is more valuable, all things considered.

Just by moving or buying out a single $4M contract. Any one of Foligno/Hartman/Trenin. The Wild would theoretically have enough cap space this off-season to extend both Kaprizov and Rossi, plus the RFA's, and sign BOTH of Boeser AND Nelson.

[Citizen Strife]

Of those, Hartman first, Trenin second, Foligno last.

The main issue with Hartman is his rep is toxic.  At least Trenin provides you his worth without being a suspension risk.

[RazWild]

17 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Of those, Hartman first, Trenin second, Foligno last.

The main issue with Hartman is his rep is toxic.  At least Trenin provides you his worth without being a suspension risk.

Ironically, his PIM's is way down this year, and he was doing a much better job staying out of the box.

Until the Stutzle incident I was firmly in the camp of keeping him because of his grit and playing on the edge. After that, I'm more than fine moving him if you can. Buying him out if you can't.

Foligno is currently playing to the market value tune rate of $5M, according to the Athletic, so a surplus of $1M over his $4M AAV. As ever and always, a indispensable core piece that shouldn't be moved. Yet.

If you can move Trenin by the deadline. Do it.