Article: Wild's Faber, Boldy Lose In Heartbreaking Fashion At 4 Nations

[Up North Guy]

49 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

That trade is more lopsided than Reagan-Mondale. 

You showing your age???

[M_Nels]

15 minutes ago, Up North Guy said:

You showing your age???

Lol. Not quite. Just something my dad would say if someone got their ass kicked. 

[OldDutchChip]

4 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Guerin did that when he used the assets to grab Jiricek.  That isn't an immediate upgrade.  However, he played better in 3-6 games than Bogo, Merrill, and Dermott did.  He is NOT a Faber replacement.  The hope is he takes over Spurgeon's Top 4 once he's "good enough" defensively.  Jumping him up to #1 is just suicidal.

The plan is in place to add by subtraction.  This is just the lame duck season we're wading through.

why would you not want to pair Zeev (a top 1 offensive D) with a big, powerful D partner to form potentially a second coming of Neidy and Pronger? Yes, you move Faber down to second pair. They can play it safe and have Spurge and Brodin mix with them, so it may not be immediate but that is your future top pair.

I think your suicidal comment is meant towards the wrong scenario. It would be suicidal to keep overvaluing players that are replaceable, while brushing off the one player that isn't. Faber is not THE most important piece on our team. 

 

[Citizen Strife]

How do we have any evidence that Jiricek is gonna be a top pairing guy?  We know Faber just eats minutes, and that's what a Top 2/Top 4 is supposed to do.  Trading him for some offensive guy we don't know doesn't help if we don't have a safety net.  After all, we saw how shit the team's defense was when Brodin and Spurgeon were hurt.  

I'll take the team having 4-5 solid to great defensemen over dumping any of them right now.

[OldDutchChip]

4 hours ago, M_Nels said:

That’s the thing, out of our “prized” D prospects only Spacek is RHD and he’s not exactly on a trajectory for a top4 spot. 
 

Hypothetically, if we sign a Thompson, Tuch, Svech for a forward then so be it but if you do Faber for Brady you’re leaving a gaping hole in your D corps. If we’re going to make a run relying on Bogo (HA!), Jiri and Spurge to man the right side is a disaster in the making. 

in my proposal i trade Boldy for Svechnikov or Faber for Tkachuk. The first is good for us for it being equal value but may pay more dividends in cultural connection so that's one. Faber for Tkachuk is game changing for us. Kap has seen what his presence mean. He would welcome that. i think we can patch up the whole left by Faber just fine. Hell we can sign a FA. He won't be as good, but i wager the impact of adding Tkachuk trumps the loss of Faber.  And the impact it has on Kap is another big plus. Would Kap love to play with Tkachuk on his line? hmm let me think🤔 i bet he'll sign THIS JULY!

[OldDutchChip]

4 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

His stock is sky high and his contract is well below what top pairing RHDs will be paid in the upcoming years. Guerin has been giving out excellent long term contracts to the guys he identifies as difference makers for winning.

You can add scoring via free agency too. The Wild are poised to have one of the top defenses over the next handful of years, and are trying to grow their contender more organically for a long window of contention.

Some of the trade ideas aren't terrible for accelerating winning this year or next, but in a year or 2, their blue line could be the envy of most GMs.

Even though Faber's stock is high now, it's likely to grow because of the contract he's on. As long as the Wild extend Kaprizov, and I think it's likely they'll be able to do so, and add a strong top 6 free agent to replace Johansson, with their cap space, they should be in an excellent place to contend. They may end up making a trade before next year, but I wouldn't expect any major moves this season.

Being elite defensively might just be their best path to truly contending.

His stock is sky high and his contract is well below what top pairing RHDs will be paid in the upcoming years. Guerin has been giving out excellent long term contracts to the guys he identifies as difference makers for winning. The value of his contract is irrelevant. If we keep him and it leads to Kap walking, that's a fail. I don't care if his contract comes up with 1 mm surplus.

You can add scoring via free agency too. yes - Brock Nelson or Brock Boeser. But to get something really good, you have to pay up. And who has the highest of value? 

Some of the trade ideas aren't terrible for accelerating winning this year or next, but in a year or 2, their blue line could be the envy of most GMs. Could is MN favorite word along with patience. In two years, Kap could be playing on the east coast and we could be in the same place we are at now - in a constant battle for WC. 

As long as the Wild extend Kaprizov, and I think it's likely they'll be able to do so, and add a strong top 6 free agent to replace Johansson, with their cap space, they should be in an excellent place to contend. Right, that's the point - we can't just assume he signs. I gave plenty of reasons for him to walk. To simply say that 3-5 years down the road we can be in the running, based on hope and prospect rating is not going to be appealing to a player in his prime and is about to pick his spot to play out THE prime years. If we don't prioritize him, he'll walk. ZERO success thus far with the club. Carrying and getting beat up and injured. Never-ending development. This is not our year - but wait a few.....That is very appetizing for THE best player in the league. You'd think maybe we could do a bit more to entice him? and yes, that may cost us Faber, which is just fine. 

Being elite defensively might just be their best path to truly contending. Hasn't that been the Wild way for 30 years? 

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, Sam said:

Pretty sure no one on this site wants to trade away Rossi, Boldy, and especially Faber so maybe you should stop suggesting we do that.. 

Edit: Oh, and ODC doesn’t count as he’s probably the only one.

yeah all of you want Kap out and to build a team of Rossi, Boldy and three Brocks. And celebrate making it in as WC for the next 10 years. Because you sure have spent a ton of time thinking of what Kap wants.....nope it's been ass licking of next Suter. well it happened before. but Wild fans never learn. actually MN fans never learn. 

[Sam]

3 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

I will take that action, especially on the 2 out of 3.  Rossi won’t be traded.  He either signs or walks.

You think either Boldy or Faber will be traded? I’m not sure what you mean by “taking the action”.

[Sam]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

yeah all of you want Kap out and to build a team of Rossi, Boldy and three Brocks. And celebrate making it in as WC for the next 10 years. Because you sure have spent a ton of time thinking of what Kap wants.....nope it's been ass licking of next Suter. well it happened before. but Wild fans never learn. actually MN fans never learn. 

No, nobody wants Kap out. I just think Boldy, Rossi, and Faber have just as good of a chance at developing chemistry with Kap as anyone. Plus they’re all young and still getting better.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

yeah all of you want Kap out and to build a team of Rossi, Boldy and three Brocks.

I want Kaprizov to be in MN, but if cannot see the team they are building and want to extend to be a part of it, they'll trade him for another elite talent and other assets. I don't want that, but you cannot let players dictate the future of a team to the point that you are hurting your title chances.

The Wild may very well trade Rossi(the rare productive player they haven't extended long-term) to get the type of player you want, but I highly doubt they trade out Boldy and Faber. Every player is tradeable, but Guerin is going to stick with his plan unless there's a great deal that presents itself.

I don't think Jiricek was clearly in their future plans, but they pounced on an opportunity that arose without overpaying to get a guy who could be a major contributor after the cap hits lower significantly.

[OldDutchChip]

25 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

How do we have any evidence that Jiricek is gonna be a top pairing guy?  We know Faber just eats minutes, and that's what a Top 2/Top 4 is supposed to do.  Trading him for some offensive guy we don't know doesn't help if we don't have a safety net.  After all, we saw how shit the team's defense was when Brodin and Spurgeon were hurt.  

I'll take the team having 4-5 solid to great defensemen over dumping any of them right now.

imagine an Edmonton fan fretting so much over Nurse or Ekholm and Nugent Hopkins while not giving a care about Connor McDavid.....

imagine a Colorado fan fretting so much over Toews and Lahkenen while not giving a care about Nathan McKinnon.....

imagine a Wild fan fretting so much over Faber and Boldy while not giving a care about Kirill Kaprizov

Only 1 of 3 statements is true. 

[OldDutchChip]

11 minutes ago, Sam said:

No, nobody wants Kap out. I just think Boldy, Rossi, and Faber have just as good of a chance at developing chemistry with Kap as anyone. Plus they’re all young and still getting better.

so you think Kap is patient? or just after the biggest pay out, which i guess is going to come from leo! or our trajectory is just fine? So five years without a SINGLE round victory is fine for him? or having to be relied to drag the team to the top while getting beat up is a pleasurable experience all superstars want?

seems like over confidence in how things are progressing....

[Citizen Strife]

There's such a thing as overthinking something.  You're so anal retentive about a thing that is out of the team's control for another four months.

[OldDutchChip]

19 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I want Kaprizov to be in MN, but if cannot see the team they are building and want to extend to be a part of it, they'll trade him for another elite talent and other assets. I don't want that, but you cannot let players dictate the future of a team to the point that you are hurting your title chances.

The Wild may very well trade Rossi(the rare productive player they haven't extended long-term) to get the type of player you want, but I highly doubt they trade out Boldy and Faber. Every player is tradeable, but Guerin is going to stick with his plan unless there's a great deal that presents itself.

I don't think Jiricek was clearly in their future plans, but they pounced on an opportunity that arose without overpaying to get a guy who could be a major contributor after the cap hits lower significantly.

they'll trade Kaprizov....right....no biggie

and you think we are going to get equal value back? interesting - like we did with Gabby (who is half the player Kap is)? or you think if he says he'll go to Philly, we get Mitchkov for him? And Mitchkov (best case scenario) is NOT on Kaps level. The only player who are is McK and McD. That's it. You are not getting anything close to value. But i guess we'll be the NHL version of Dallas Mavericks! 🙂 

.... there are ways to project what will happen and to act before the dire situation materializes, to shift the course and/or to be ready to pounce. i am not calling on Faber to be traded for the sake of being traded, or Boldy and Rossi for that matter. I am calling to be ready and if situation presents itself - have an offer ready and pounce. 

Question for  you - would you trade Faber for Tkachuk in the off season?

[Citizen Strife]

No, because they aren't offering Tkachuk and probably never will.  It is a moot point.

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

There's such a thing as overthinking something.  You're so anal retentive about a thing that is out of the team's control for another four months.

do you not believe in pro-active planning? or analyzing a situation from different angles? nope just hope for the best?

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Citizen Strife said:

No, because they aren't offering Tkachuk and probably never will.  It is a moot point.

ah the best response from MN fan! why bother, they would never offer or even talk to us! 

let's just wait until a MN son ages and comes back! 

[Citizen Strife]

You're overanalyzing a situation that can't and will not be dealt with until July because that's what Kap wants (focusing on recovery and THIS season), and because Guerin can't do anything until then.  As much as you seem to spearhead the "the Wild must change for the better NOW" camp, I can see things for what they are and stay realistic and yes, maybe too optimistic for my own good.  It's better that way though, cause I like thinking realistically about things.  "If I have time to think about something that annoys me, I have time to think about something that makes me happy instead."

So no.  I don't want to pre plan, I don't care about pre-planning, I like the team they are developing, and am inclined to give Guerin the benefit of the doubt because he has safety nets in place to prevent the Parise/Suter decade from potentially happening again.  I'm worried about the next Detroit game, because nobody knows what's going to happen. They either win, or they lose.  I can only control what I can, and that isn't anything the team does or doesn't do.  After all, I don't work for them.

Want to know what my main thought is?  Getting my shopping done.

Edited 6 hours ago by Citizen Strife

[Imyourhuckleberry]

48 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Question for  you - would you trade Faber for Tkachuk in the off season?

I don't see that trade becoming an option for the Wild, but I do think that's one they'd have to consider making. If it were an option, I think the Wild may adjust their plan.

It would leave a hole in the defense and I haven't looked at free agent defensemen because the Wild have been so well stocked since adding Jiricek, but I imagine there's a good path forward in that alternate universe.

[OldDutchChip]

44 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

You're overanalyzing a situation that can't and will not be dealt with until July because that's what Kap wants (focusing on recovery and THIS season), and because Guerin can't do anything until then.  As much as you seem to spearhead the "the Wild must change for the better NOW" camp, I can see things for what they are and stay realistic and yes, maybe too optimistic for my own good.  It's better that way though, cause I like thinking realistically about things.  "If I have time to think about something that annoys me, I have time to think about something that makes me happy instead."

So no.  I don't want to pre plan, I don't care about pre-planning, I like the team they are developing, and am inclined to give Guerin the benefit of the doubt because he has safety nets in place to prevent the Parise/Suter decade from potentially happening again.  I'm worried about the next Detroit game, because nobody knows what's going to happen. They either win, or they lose.  I can only control what I can, and that isn't anything the team does or doesn't do.  After all, I don't work for them.

Want to know what my main thought is?  Getting my shopping done.

You're overanalyzing a situation that can't and will not be dealt with until July 

wrong! you can do plenty of things instead of just wait around. you can plant a C on him. you can still make plans for the upcoming Off season. you can also still make trades and align your financial and roster situation to be ready for a scenario to your liking. to say Can't and Won't is silly and lazy.

I don't want to pre plan, I don't care about pre-planning

you want to do no pre-planning. fine. i bet that works fine in real life, so why not on the hockey ice.

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, Sam said:

You think either Boldy or Faber will be traded? I’m not sure what you mean by “taking the action”.

I mean I will take that bet.  He says one for sure and possible two out of three.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I don't see that trade becoming an option for the Wild, but I do think that's one they'd have to consider making. If it were an option, I think the Wild may adjust their plan.

It would leave a hole in the defense and I haven't looked at free agent defensemen because the Wild have been so well stocked since adding Jiricek, but I imagine there's a good path forward in that alternate universe.

taking out the "never will this happen" statement - let's high five and have a brew 🍻.

should that happen, i'd hope wild have a plan and not just ship out Faber. hence i am advocating for chess over checkers thinking. but i just don't know if bill has that in him. he seems to be one move at a time kind of a guy (two max)

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

yeah all of you want Kap out and to build a team of Rossi, Boldy and three Brocks. And celebrate making it in as WC for the next 10 years. Because you sure have spent a ton of time thinking of what Kap wants.....nope it's been ass licking of next Suter. well it happened before. but Wild fans never learn. actually MN fans never learn. 

I don’t think anyone of us have said we want Kap to walk. What most of us are saying is there isn’t a trade to be made now because the players everyone wants are not available.  They are fantasy trades.  Your trade ideas would be fine if the players were available, but they are not.   That is why most of us say let it play out with what we have.  We can discuss trades in the off-season if we hear so and so player wants out and is available.

Edited 5 hours ago by SkolWild73

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I don’t think anyone of us have said we want Kap to walk. What most of us are saying is there isn’t a trade to be made now because the players everyone wants are not available.  They are fantasy trades.  Your trade ideas would be fine if the players were available, but they are not.   That is why most of us say let it play out with what we have.  We can discuss trades in the off-season if we hear so and so player wants out and is available.

when he is a number 2 or below on a list of priority - that is saying the same thing. we can talk about when time comes is reserved for everyone BUT him. his time is ALL THE TIME. 

are the Wild thinking about that? what has the team done for Kap? besides NOT giving him a single elite Center in his 5 years? (rossi, ek and harty.....yikes)

making him limp out pretty much every year without anyone to deter these beating? nope no need to get him help, he is FINE with zuccy! can we get a bigger, more physical player to help him? nope, zuccy and rossi will be fine - the duo that surely puts fear in opponents!

to let it play out like everything is going fine and just focus on development of Boldy, Faber, Rossi, Zeev, Yurov, Wally and many other prospects is delusional thinking. 

why would Kap stay? when was the last time someone written an article about KAPRIZOV? you think he doesn't read? all he sees is Boldy, Rossi and Faber praise. or their worth and projected money saving or comparison using fancy stats model to predict them being superstars.....wait don't we already have one? ah him - he is fine! 

If i'm him - i'm not seeing the buy in, trying to maximize his impact on his timeline, and that understanding of true worth. I've said it today already - but Colorado and Edmonton know exactly what they have in McKinnon and McDavid. I don't think MN does. 

[mnhockeyfan03]

ODC you get it.  No one else sees what’s going to happen when Kap walks.  This team is going to be stuck in mediocrity forever.  No vision at all.  Faber, Boldy and Rossi are our chips on getting what this team needs.  I guess MN fans are just fine being a playoff team.  I am not one of them and want to go for a cup.  Kap is not getting younger and we have a window for the next 3-4 years in Kaps prime if he stays.  Our whole fan base overvalues our players.  Look we just claimed a guy off waivers who is better than half our team and better than a $4mm a year player in Hartman who should never wear our jersey again.  Think big.  Watch Colorado they are t done making trades this year as they are going for it every year.  Be a creative GM.