Article: Wild's Faber, Boldy Lose In Heartbreaking Fashion At 4 Nations

[OldDutchChip]

21 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I will give you that these are the top 6 forwards with Boldy coming in 7th, given M. Tkachuk a break for playing hurt and missing games.  If you look at the 6 that are listed ahead of Boldy, and they were on the Wild, would anyone suggest trading them?  I would assume the answer is no.  So why then do some of you want to trade Boldy, who is 3+ years younger to everyone besides B. Tkachuk?  

How about if we make a trade for another top 6 forward this offseason, we find a way to do it without giving up a no question top 6 forward in Boldy?  Wouldn't that be what's best for the team?

Because I think Svechnikov is a better player than Boldy 🙂

[mnhockeyfan03]

17 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I will give you that these are the top 6 forwards with Boldy coming in 7th, given M. Tkachuk a break for playing hurt and missing games.  If you look at the 6 that are listed ahead of Boldy, and they were on the Wild, would anyone suggest trading them?  I would assume the answer is no.  So why then do some of you want to trade Boldy, who is 3+ years younger to everyone besides B. Tkachuk?  

How about if we make a trade for another top 6 forward this offseason, we find a way to do it without giving up a no question top 6 forward in Boldy?  Wouldn't that be what's best for the team?

When you look at how to make the team better and make trades you have to give up something good to get something good.  Other teams won’t just take our junk and you also need to look at the numbers from a cap perspective.  Also I stand by that Faber and Boldy and Rossi should not be off the table if they can bring us back a couple top 6 forwards that can help this team.  Watching all the USA games it was Slavin that was controlling the game anytime on the ice.  Faber was just lucky he got to play with him and not make mistakes. 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

28 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Watching all the USA games it was Slavin that was controlling the game anytime on the ice.  Faber was just lucky he got to play with him and not make mistakes. 

While Slavin might have been the 1st D, there were multiple options to pair with him and Faber is the guy they trusted on the ice with him the most. Slavin and Werensky are both strong veteran options, but Faber was more than just "lucky" to be on that top pairing. He was out there because he was more trusted than any other options the US had available.

Certainly fair to say that Faber's role may have been a little less prominent if McAvoy were healthy the whole tourney, but he was easily a top 4 D among the best in the US at age 22. He wasn't just a passenger, he was trusted and he was shutting down McDavid in his shifts. Faber's future is very bright.

[M_Nels]

34 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Watching all the USA games it was Slavin that was controlling the game anytime on the ice.  Faber was just lucky he got to play with him and not make mistakes. 

Slavin is an animal, there's no doubt about that. But it's not just a coinky dink and luck that Faber had the most TOI last night.

[M_Nels]

40 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Also I stand by that Faber and Boldy and Rossi should not be off the table if they can bring us back a couple top 6 forwards that can help this team.

TRADE HIM FOR TUCH and/or THOMPSON!!!

Seriously though, I'll give Boldy up maybe if the deal is right but there's no way in hell I'm trading Faber. Cornerstone, franchise, future captain RHD don't just spring up in FA or even in middle to bottom of drafts.

[SkolWild73]

29 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

When you look at how to make the team better and make trades you have to give up something good to get something good.  Other teams won’t just take our junk and you also need to look at the numbers from a cap perspective.  Also I stand by that Faber and Boldy and Rossi should not be off the table if they can bring us back a couple top 6 forwards that can help this team.  Watching all the USA games it was Slavin that was controlling the game anytime on the ice.  Faber was just lucky he got to play with him and not make mistakes. 

Aren't Boldy and Rossi already top 6 forwards?  Saying Faber was lucky to play with him is kind of disrespectful to Faber.  Coaches put Faber with Slavin and played both of them all those minutes because he thought they were the two best defensemen.  They even had Faber out there on the PK.  Did you not see the two plays that Faber made one on one vs. McDavid yesterday?

You say you have to give up good players to get good ones? The Rangers got Miller for a 25-year-old winger that averages less than a 1/2 a point per game player, a 22 year old 5th round pick defenseman that has 15 games played and a protected first round pick.  Vegas got Eichel and a third rounder for Tuch, who at the time was 25 and had averaged about 1/2 point a game for his career, a prospect and a first and a second. 

You can get good players without giving up a 23-year-old in Boldy who is averaging .846 pgp who is signed for 5 more years, a 22-year-old top pairing defenseman in Faber who is signed for 8, and a 23-year-old in Rossi who has improved dramatically every year.  

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

TRADE HIM FOR TUCH and/or THOMPSON!!!

Seriously though, I'll give Boldy up maybe if the deal is right but there's no way in hell I'm trading Faber. Cornerstone, franchise, future captain RHD don't just spring up in FA or even in middle to bottom of drafts.

Future captain is Kaprizov, not Faber

Zeev seems to be destined for #1 D

i suppose Faber can be our Toews for Zeev (Makar)

or trade bait ….. I still think he is Suter 2.0 😎

[SkolWild73]

45 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Because I think Svechnikov is a better player than Boldy 🙂

Fair point. Can't really say one way or the other which is better.  But if Svechnikov were available, which I doubt he is since he is signed through 2029, wouldn't it be better to try and get him without giving up a young player like Boldy?

[M_Nels]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Future captain is Kaprizov, not Faber

Zeev seems to be destined for #1 D

i suppose Faber can be our Toews for Zeev (Makar)

or trade bait ….. I still think he is Suter 2.0 😎

Captains aren't always the superstar players, plus Faber's career is going to be longer, I didn't say it had to be tomorrow.

Zeev is left-handed, so he could be #1LHD I suppose.

Edited 14 hours ago by M_Nels

[Willy the poor boy]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Future captain is Kaprizov, not Faber

 

Oh no... You must've forgot. Kap ain't stickin around remember. We don't have the talent or the intelligence to acquire it, so...He gone... 🙃

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, SkolWild73 said:

How about if we make a trade for another top 6 forward this offseason, we find a way to do it without giving up a no question top 6 forward in Boldy? 

Here here.  And Boldy won’t have NoJo on his back next season.  Hopefully gets a legit top 6 line mate to play alongside him

[OldDutchChip]

13 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Fair point. Can't really say one way or the other which is better.  But if Svechnikov were available, which I doubt he is since he is signed through 2029, wouldn't it be better to try and get him without giving up a young player like Boldy?

oh yeah but i think canes would want a proven player. and it's such an even trade that i think it's not too far-fetched. i think the russian factor has to be mentioned here. i know kap has said earlier on that he doesn't want a russian just because of his roots and prefers to have good players instead. but given him both roots and skill, that's not too bad of a strategic move.....also their GFs are both models, so let them go shopping all they want at Galleria. Problem solved - Kap signs and we are going for SC. ODC is a genius!

[mnhockeyfan03]

21 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

TRADE HIM FOR TUCH and/or THOMPSON!!!

Seriously though, I'll give Boldy up maybe if the deal is right but there's no way in hell I'm trading Faber. Cornerstone, franchise, future captain RHD don't just spring up in FA or even in middle to bottom of drafts.

Sorry my opinion but I would trade Boldy and Faber for Tuch and Thompson.  We nerd big RH shot top 6 forwards and this provides this.  We are deep at D and with the left over salary cap space we can get another solid D for 4-5mm.

 

Also if you could make a call to Ottawa and say I will trade you Boldy and Faber for Brady T I do that trade as well.  

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Captains aren't always the superstar players, plus Faber's career is going to be longer, I didn't say it had to be tomorrow.

Zeev is left-handed, so he could be #1LHD I suppose.

He is too quiet to be a captain. Kap is too. But i think giving captaincy to Kap is "smarter" for the team. Faber is here until he retires. Kap may leave. So let's use all the leverage we have - and one is captaincy. A bit more responsibility and tough as a captain to just cut ties and leave.....?

Zeev, by all accounts, is our best D. Likely to be paired up with Jiri for the ultimate punch. That moves Faber to Brodin spot on 2nd pair. Which is a great top 4 D but it means less "impact" for Faber. So i kinda doubt he will achieve more than Suter. But prime Suter in MN was kinda good. Not great - but good.. 

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Oh no... You must've forgot. Kap ain't stickin around remember. We don't have the talent or the intelligence to acquire it, so...He gone... 🙃

hey we still have him on the team - and i think captaincy - is not the worst idea to consider.

[M_Nels]

2 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Sorry my opinion but I would trade Boldy and Faber for Tuch and Thompson.  We nerd big RH shot top 6 forwards and this provides this.  We are deep at D and with the left over salary cap space we can get another solid D for 4-5mm.

 

Also if you could make a call to Ottawa and say I will trade you Boldy and Faber for Brady T I do that trade as well.  

Who is stepping into the role of #1RHD then? Bogo surely as hell isn't, Spurge's career is on the back side and we don't know how his body will hold up, Jiri isn't there yet. We don't have a player like Faber in the system either.

I'd be ok with trading Boldy but Faber is one of the untouchables IMO.

[SkolWild73]

58 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Because I think Svechnikov is a better player than Boldy 🙂

Ok ODC.  This is my last-ditch effort of trying to get you to see what Boldy can become when he hits his prime😀 It's going to be long so stick with me.  I was told by another commentor that I overvalued Boldy, so I thought, maybe I was, so I decided to do a little research.  Since Boldy started playing when he was 20 and has played 4 years (almost), I wanted to see what other active players did during their year 20-23 seasons and how they did when they were 24-28, the next 5 years to line up with Kap.  Below are those players with their pgp (points per game played) with Boldy's stats at top.  Boldy is at .846.  I did not include players that average more than .890 and went down to as low as .70.

• Boldy                 .846
• E. Pettersson   .890
• Point                  .882
• Barzal                .873
• Connor              .861
• Boeser              .840
• M. Tkachuk      .834
• Giroux               .830
• DeBrincat          .820
• Laine                 .814
• F. Forsberg       .803
• Eberle               .795
• Kucherov          .787
• Monohan          .779
• Duchesne         .764
• Benn                  .751
• Ehlers                .732
• Larkin                .719
• Nylander           .716
• O'Reilly              .709
• Bratt                  .700

20 players.  All but Boeser, Eberle, and O'Reilly did not have at least one season as a pgp player.  O'Reilly came close in 2019 with 77 in 82 and 2019 with 54 in 56.  Also, Ehlers has not but is on pace for it this year and just missed at 24.  The other 16 players all had at least one pgp season by the age of 27.  12 of the 17 have had more than one.  Over half did by 25.  

It would seem that Boldy has about an 80-85 percent chance of having at least one pgp year.  Last year there was only 28 players to do so if Boldy can reach that in the next 2-3 years, it would be great for the Wild and fit with Kap's timeline.

Did I get you on us Boldy supporters' side yet🙂?

 

[SkolWild73]

Got one more thing for everyone before the game tomorrow.  I think we need to give a lot of credit to all the players we have on the Wild right now for what they have done when Kap has been out.  I know many people do not think we have done much without him, but we are 11-7-1.  That is 23 points in 19 games.  Over an 82-game season, that is 99 points, which would still put us in the playoffs.  I know it is a small sample, and we could come out of the break and lose our first 4 games, but so far, the team has held up well without Kap.  On the other hand, we get 5 points in the next 4 then the 99-point projection stays the same.  Best case scenario, Kap is back then, and we can make a run.

[Protec]

Hopefully Boldy learns to be more selfish and hits the net more. Improve the one-timer. Canada is a damn good team. Boldy could make more of so.e chances but not lighting up Canada is not an embarrassment. 

He's way better than his golf-offseason. He and Faber are both really good new-core guys IMO. Hopefully they do get even better and learn how to become more effective. 

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

Ok ODC.  This is my last-ditch effort of trying to get you to see what Boldy can become when he hits his prime😀 It's going to be long so stick with me.  I was told by another commentor that I overvalued Boldy, so I thought, maybe I was, so I decided to do a little research.  Since Boldy started playing when he was 20 and has played 4 years (almost), I wanted to see what other active players did during their year 20-23 seasons and how they did when they were 24-28, the next 5 years to line up with Kap.  Below are those players with their pgp (points per game played) with Boldy's stats at top.  Boldy is at .846.  I did not include players that average more than .890 and went down to as low as .70.

• Boldy                 .846
• E. Pettersson   .890
• Point                  .882
• Barzal                .873
• Connor              .861
• Boeser              .840
• M. Tkachuk      .834
• Giroux               .830
• DeBrincat          .820
• Laine                 .814
• F. Forsberg       .803
• Eberle               .795
• Kucherov          .787
• Monohan          .779
• Duchesne         .764
• Benn                  .751
• Ehlers                .732
• Larkin                .719
• Nylander           .716
• O'Reilly              .709
• Bratt                  .700

20 players.  All but Boeser, Eberle, and O'Reilly did not have at least one season as a pgp player.  O'Reilly came close in 2019 with 77 in 82 and 2019 with 54 in 56.  Also, Ehlers has not but is on pace for it this year and just missed at 24.  The other 16 players all had at least one pgp season by the age of 27.  12 of the 17 have had more than one.  Over half did by 25.  

It would seem that Boldy has about an 80-85 percent chance of having at least one pgp year.  Last year there was only 28 players to do so if Boldy can reach that in the next 2-3 years, it would be great for the Wild and fit with Kap's timeline.

Did I get you on us Boldy supporters' side yet🙂?

 

haha 🙂 i like it! sorry in advance for the rant but here goes - 

in a perfect world we roll with what we got. we go off data and plan the most efficient and logical route. boldy seems to fit the model so let's wait and let him develop.....

BUT that is not a reality. our reality dictates that we consider our actual state of things and then make that efficient and logical route in accordance with that state. 

what's our reality then? well Kaprizov is basically a top 3 player. he has stated his desire to win above all else (and money is NOT the prime factor - i believe)and he has experienced ZERO success with the Wild. he is also approaching his prime (or likely has entered it already) and arguably will sign the one big contract next year that will eat up his peak performance age. so he'll likely want to do it knowing that he can win. 

so the priority number 1 is Kaprizov. hence you need to construct a team to maximize Kaprizov's impact. and to do so on his schedule. should kaprizov end his current contract with NO playoff success and the hope that Kap signs off on another go seems a bit naive.

He needs to experience success. He is a smart player and knows what type of players he has in that locker room. I think he needs more (more skill and more physicality) but he is not the type of player to say so out loud. But GM has to understand that and know the dire situation we're in.

and this is a big one that gets almost everyone hysterical here - Boldy, Rossi and Faber are all replaceable. Kaprizov is not.

It's all great that Faber and Boldy are having fun at 4NT. But it doesn't matter in the long run and for Wild fans - it is irrelevant. I don't really care if Boldy morphs into a Braden Point or Kyle Connor when he is 28. By then Kaprizov will be five years older and hitting his decline.

So the point is - you either go with youth and do the whole 3-5 year plan (yet again.....we are used to it!).

Or realize that Kaprizov needs someone NOW to drive winning. Not in 3-5 years. If the onus is on prospect development and patience - he will move to another team.

There is no way he is mentoring another batch of exciting MN prospects and foregoes his chance to LEAD a team to SC. he is not passing it up. If Wild goes with Youth, it will mean Kaprizov goes out.

So the way to do it is to sacrifice that youth. And sorry but Boldy, Rossi and Faber (and other prospects) are valuable pieces that could be used to get the missing parts. If Billy is smart he will deal for the now, instead of waiting for the future that is never promised.

To loose THE best player in the world, all because of infatuation with B/C class players is idiotic. 

[FredJohnson]

4 hours ago, Willy the poor boy said:

Oh no... You must've forgot. Kap ain't stickin around remember. We don't have the talent or the intelligence to acquire it, so...He gone... 🙃

Boxed! 😂

[FredJohnson]

19 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

haha 🙂 i like it! sorry in advance for the rant but here goes - 

in a perfect world we roll with what we got. we go off data and plan the most efficient and logical route. boldy seems to fit the model so let's wait and let him develop.....

BUT that is not a reality. our reality dictates that we consider our actual state of things and then make that efficient and logical route in accordance with that state. 

what's our reality then? well Kaprizov is basically a top 3 player. he has stated his desire to win above all else (and money is NOT the prime factor - i believe)and he has experienced ZERO success with the Wild. he is also approaching his prime (or likely has entered it already) and arguably will sign the one big contract next year that will eat up his peak performance age. so he'll likely want to do it knowing that he can win. 

so the priority number 1 is Kaprizov. hence you need to construct a team to maximize Kaprizov's impact. and to do so on his schedule. should kaprizov end his current contract with NO playoff success and the hope that Kap signs off on another go seems a bit naive.

He needs to experience success. He is a smart player and knows what type of players he has in that locker room. I think he needs more (more skill and more physicality) but he is not the type of player to say so out loud. But GM has to understand that and know the dire situation we're in.

and this is a big one that gets almost everyone hysterical here - Boldy, Rossi and Faber are all replaceable. Kaprizov is not.

It's all great that Faber and Boldy are having fun at 4NT. But it doesn't matter in the long run and for Wild fans - it is irrelevant. I don't really care if Boldy morphs into a Braden Point or Kyle Connor when he is 28. By then Kaprizov will be five years older and hitting his decline.

So the point is - you either go with youth and do the whole 3-5 year plan (yet again.....we are used to it!).

Or realize that Kaprizov needs someone NOW to drive winning. Not in 3-5 years. If the onus is on prospect development and patience - he will move to another team.

There is no way he is mentoring another batch of exciting MN prospects and foregoes his chance to LEAD a team to SC. he is not passing it up. If Wild goes with Youth, it will mean Kaprizov goes out.

So the way to do it is to sacrifice that youth. And sorry but Boldy, Rossi and Faber (and other prospects) are valuable pieces that could be used to get the missing parts. If Billy is smart he will deal for the now, instead of waiting for the future that is never promised.

To loose THE best player in the world, all because of infatuation with B/C class players is idiotic. 

[FredJohnson]

3 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

Got one more thing for everyone before the game tomorrow.  I think we need to give a lot of credit to all the players we have on the Wild right now for what they have done when Kap has been out.  I know many people do not think we have done much without him, but we are 11-7-1.  That is 23 points in 19 games.  Over an 82-game season, that is 99 points, which would still put us in the playoffs.  I know it is a small sample, and we could come out of the break and lose our first 4 games, but so far, the team has held up well without Kap.  On the other hand, we get 5 points in the next 4 then the 99-point projection stays the same.  Best case scenario, Kap is back then, and we can make a run.

Careful that you don’t post too much optimism!

[Dango]

Just for the heck of it i did a very quick salary cap of the 4 teams ,  i know its not 100% accurate as i rounded up some players ,example Faber and a few others had .975 etc and i just did 1.0  so it should be + -  500k-1 million  accuracy ,   I'm thinking if the NHL has cap rules maybe this format should  have some sort of one as well  ,    

Canada salaries - 146 million

USA-135 million

Sweeden -124 million

Finland- 86.3 million 

I also didnt add the goalies ,

[SkolWild73]

46 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

haha 🙂 i like it! sorry in advance for the rant but here goes - 

in a perfect world we roll with what we got. we go off data and plan the most efficient and logical route. boldy seems to fit the model so let's wait and let him develop.....

BUT that is not a reality. our reality dictates that we consider our actual state of things and then make that efficient and logical route in accordance with that state. 

what's our reality then? well Kaprizov is basically a top 3 player. he has stated his desire to win above all else (and money is NOT the prime factor - i believe)and he has experienced ZERO success with the Wild. he is also approaching his prime (or likely has entered it already) and arguably will sign the one big contract next year that will eat up his peak performance age. so he'll likely want to do it knowing that he can win. 

so the priority number 1 is Kaprizov. hence you need to construct a team to maximize Kaprizov's impact. and to do so on his schedule. should kaprizov end his current contract with NO playoff success and the hope that Kap signs off on another go seems a bit naive.

He needs to experience success. He is a smart player and knows what type of players he has in that locker room. I think he needs more (more skill and more physicality) but he is not the type of player to say so out loud. But GM has to understand that and know the dire situation we're in.

and this is a big one that gets almost everyone hysterical here - Boldy, Rossi and Faber are all replaceable. Kaprizov is not.

It's all great that Faber and Boldy are having fun at 4NT. But it doesn't matter in the long run and for Wild fans - it is irrelevant. I don't really care if Boldy morphs into a Braden Point or Kyle Connor when he is 28. By then Kaprizov will be five years older and hitting his decline.

So the point is - you either go with youth and do the whole 3-5 year plan (yet again.....we are used to it!).

Or realize that Kaprizov needs someone NOW to drive winning. Not in 3-5 years. If the onus is on prospect development and patience - he will move to another team.

There is no way he is mentoring another batch of exciting MN prospects and foregoes his chance to LEAD a team to SC. he is not passing it up. If Wild goes with Youth, it will mean Kaprizov goes out.

So the way to do it is to sacrifice that youth. And sorry but Boldy, Rossi and Faber (and other prospects) are valuable pieces that could be used to get the missing parts. If Billy is smart he will deal for the now, instead of waiting for the future that is never promised.

To loose THE best player in the world, all because of infatuation with B/C class players is idiotic. 

I get everything that you are saying.  But there are.no realistic trade options that are available prior to the deadline that we can trade for that will make this team that much better before Kap has to decide to sign or not.  Hoping we can swing a trade for someone that isn’t available is not realistic.  If anyone can find a trade in the last 10 years for a top 30 player that did not have a contract coming due in a year and a half wasn’t someone that had told his team he would not sign with them, let me know, cause I haven’t found one.

 

Also, no time in the Wild’s history have they had a superstar like Kap, 2 young studs like Boldy and Faber, and another possible in Rossi already on the roster, with a top prospect group with maybe 5 coming in.  This isn’t like any 5 year plans we have had before.  Never have we been more set up for success than right now.