Article: What Should The Wild Do With Ryan Hartman?

[Luke Sims]

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[mnhockeyfan03]

Don’t let him wear a wild jersey again. Waiver him or trade him when able.  It’s sad when the guy we just claimed in his first game plays better than him and is much cheaper.  This is why other trades need to happen as well.  Our guys just aren’t that good. Boldy, Rossi, Zucc, Spurgeon all MIA the last few weeks.  Need to trade them

[Up North Guy]

41 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Don’t let him wear a wild jersey again. Waiver him or trade him when able.  It’s sad when the guy we just claimed in his first game plays better than him and is much cheaper.  This is why other trades need to happen as well.  Our guys just aren’t that good. Boldy, Rossi, Zucc, Spurgeon all MIA the last few weeks.  Need to trade them

Rinse and repeat. That horse hasn't been flogged enough yet?

[mnhockeyfan03]

8 minutes ago, Up North Guy said:

Rinse and repeat. That horse hasn't been flogged enough yet?

Not until something happens. We have a GM who is scared to take a risk.  Get rid of the country club and start GMing like Vegas.  No guy on the team is more important than the team and the goal of winning a Cup.

[RedLake]

Get him ready for playoffs. We'll be needing him.

[SkolWild73]

2 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Not until something happens. We have a GM who is scared to take a risk.  Get rid of the country club and start GMing like Vegas.  No guy on the team is more important than the team and the goal of winning a Cup.

What part of Gming like Vegas are you referring to?  The Eichel trade or something else?

[SkolWild73]

3 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Don’t let him wear a wild jersey again. Waiver him or trade him when able.  It’s sad when the guy we just claimed in his first game plays better than him and is much cheaper.  This is why other trades need to happen as well.  Our guys just aren’t that good. Boldy, Rossi, Zucc, Spurgeon all MIA the last few weeks.  Need to trade them

So if we trade all the players that haven’t produced in 2 weeks I guess we should have traded Kap after the Dallas playoff series two seasons ago because he had one goal and 0 assists in the 6 games, and that was a power play goal.  Almost all players go through stretches without scoring.  That’s why you have to look at the totality of the year.  Rossi, 46 in 55, Boldy, 45 in 55, and Zucc, 36 in 42.  Nothing wrong with those stats.  

[mnhockeyfan03]

2 hours ago, SkolWild73 said:

What part of Gming like Vegas are you referring to?  The Eichel trade or something else?

Looks at his creative use of cap space.  Also the Eichel trade, stone trade, and how any player looks like they done he doesn’t resign or trades them.  Our guy Billy is a few years behind seeing that cliff and signs them a few more years and we get results like we do now.  The Vegas GM bribgs in players and goes for it every year  

[mnhockeyfan03]

1 hour ago, SkolWild73 said:

So if we trade all the players that haven’t produced in 2 weeks I guess we should have traded Kap after the Dallas playoff series two seasons ago because he had one goal and 0 assists in the 6 games, and that was a power play goal.  Almost all players go through stretches without scoring.  That’s why you have to look at the totality of the year.  Rossi, 46 in 55, Boldy, 45 in 55, and Zucc, 36 in 42.  Nothing wrong with those stats.  

They don’t pass the eye test. Watch them against the good teams in the west.  They fold.  Also their stats are padded for PP.  Their 5x5 results arent good.  Change needs to happen if we want to compete.  

[SkolWild73]

5 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

They don’t pass the eye test. Watch them against the good teams in the west.  They fold.  Also their stats are padded for PP.  Their 5x5 results arent good.  Change needs to happen if we want to compete.  

Ok.  Rossi has 10, Boldy 13, and Zucc 10 on pp.  Here are comparable points players and their pp and points results. 

 

Matt Duchene, Dallas, 49 points and 16 on pp.  

Robertson, Dallas, 50 points, 14 on pp.

Vilardi, Winnipeg, 49 points, 22 on pp

Bedard, Chicago, 46 points, 16 on pp.

Unless all these players aren’t good on 5x5 either, it looks like our guys are performing as well or better in 5x5.

 

 

 

[SkolWild73]

20 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Looks at his creative use of cap space.  Also the Eichel trade, stone trade, and how any player looks like they done he doesn’t resign or trades them.  Our guy Billy is a few years behind seeing that cliff and signs them a few more years and we get results like we do now.  The Vegas GM bribgs in players and goes for it every year  

Yea, but Vegas had cap space to make moves, we have not.  Also, Vegas had just tied for most points in the league and were the second favorite to win the cup when they traded for Eichel, not a year removed from missing the playoffs.  They also did not give up one of their top young players who is signed for 5 more years to get him.  They traded Tuch,  who was 25 and his best point total year was 52, a prospect and a first and a second.  You want to trade Boldy, but we would only get someone back that makes as much or less.   Not sure who is out there that is better than him for that price, and also same age, since Boldy is only 23 and should only get better. 
 

As much as some of us would like to make moves, they probably are not happening until the off-season at the earliest.

[Enforceror]

20 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Ok.  Rossi has 10, Boldy 13, and Zucc 10 on pp.  Here are comparable points players and their pp and points results. 

 

Matt Duchene, Dallas, 49 points and 16 on pp.  

Robertson, Dallas, 50 points, 14 on pp.

Vilardi, Winnipeg, 49 points, 22 on pp

Bedard, Chicago, 46 points, 16 on pp.

Unless all these players aren’t good on 5x5 either, it looks like our guys are performing as well or better in 5x5.

 

 

 

I would add that we are currently 24th in the league on PP. I think the real issue is we're just not scoring enough, part of that needing to be on the PP.

[SkolWild73]

3 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

I would add that we are currently 24th in the league on PP. I think the real issue is we're just not scoring enough, part of that needing to be on the PP.

I agree with that.  Just trying to show that Rossi, Boldy, and Zucc are doing fine on 5x5.  

[mnhockeyfan03]

34 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

I agree with that.  Just trying to show that Rossi, Boldy, and Zucc are doing fine on 5x5.  

How are they 5x5 against the playoff teams in the west?

We need a lethal RH shot on the PP and Zucc needs to be off it as well as Faber.  Both are way to cute and neither has a shot.

Doesnt pay to go around and around as our GM doesn’t have the stones to make us a contender to we will continue to be stuck in the middle.

We could have had Eichel a few years ago for Boldy and Rossi or last year could have had Necas for Boldy and picks but no our guy Billy overvalues his guys and we are stuck without a true number 2 goal scorer.  That’s why do whatever you need to get Tuch and Thompson.  Throw in Boldy, Rossi, Faber and change this lazy soft team

[SkolWild73]

53 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

How are they 5x5 against the playoff teams in the west?

We need a lethal RH shot on the PP and Zucc needs to be off it as well as Faber.  Both are way to cute and neither has a shot.

Doesnt pay to go around and around as our GM doesn’t have the stones to make us a contender to we will continue to be stuck in the middle.

We could have had Eichel a few years ago for Boldy and Rossi or last year could have had Necas for Boldy and picks but no our guy Billy overvalues his guys and we are stuck without a true number 2 goal scorer.  That’s why do whatever you need to get Tuch and Thompson.  Throw in Boldy, Rossi, Faber and change this lazy soft team

You act like Thompson and Tuch are available.  And I would rather have Boldy who already scores about as much as Tuch does and is 5 years younger with a higher ceiling.  It is so easy to be a fantasy GM and after your team is one of the 31 teams that does not win a cup you can say see, I told you we should have made this move or that move.  And just because Vegas won a cup with Eichel, it sure doesn't mean we would have.  They were far closer to being a contender than we are.  Vegas traded Tuch a prospect and picks for him.  You are suggesting we should have given up two of our top prospects who are on pace for 66 and 67 points this year for Eichel who will probably put up 100, but doubt he hits 133.

I know this.  I will be a fan of the Wild, whether they win 5 cups or 0 cups.  I will root for the team that we have and will still root for them in the future when they are all gone and not be negative about every little thing they do or do not do.  All the complaining about this team that has lost their best player for 18 games and counting, and multiple other top players for 10 or more games and we still have the 7th best point percentage in the league.

As I said in another post, this is the first time in the Wild's history that they have a true superstar, a very good young core, in Faber, Boldy and Rossi that have not hit their peak, and a top prospect pool with probably 4 players ready to contribute next year.  Although it is tough to be patient with a team that has not even been to the cup finals in their history, (excluding the North Stars), if there has ever been a time in their history to be patient it is now.  See where we are at the end of 2027 and if we are where Vegas was when they traded for Eichel, or the Panthers when the traded for Tkachuk, then we make a move.  

[SkolWild73]

1 hour ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

How are they 5x5 against the playoff teams in the west?

 

Since you asked. here you go.  I used Vegas, Kings, Oilers, Canucks, Stars, Jets. and Avs.

Boldy, 14 games, 2 goals, 3 assists, .35 ppg

 Rossi, 14 games. 1 goal, 3 assists, .29 ppg

Zucc, 9 games, 0 goals, 5 assists, .55 ppg

Kap, 10 games. 4 goals, 1 assist. .5 ppg

None of our players have played well against those teams, including Kap, but that doesn't mean we should trade him and that holds true for the rest of the team.  It is a small sample size to take from, but we have been outscored by those 7 teams 55-27 and have a record of 4-11.  Also, Kap missed 5 of the 15 games and Zucc missed 6.  Did not look to see if any of those games overlapped or not, but main issue we were not fully healthy for many of the games.

[mnhockeyfan03]

Going to take the high road on this one and say we have a disagreement on our feelings of our quality of players. If we keep who i have listed you will see how it plays out in 2-3 years not winning a cup.  Hopefully Billy doesn’t have the same feelings as you or he will be gone as well.  

[raithis]

2 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

How are they 5x5 against the playoff teams in the west?

We need a lethal RH shot on the PP and Zucc needs to be off it as well as Faber.  Both are way to cute and neither has a shot.

Doesnt pay to go around and around as our GM doesn’t have the stones to make us a contender to we will continue to be stuck in the middle.

We could have had Eichel a few years ago for Boldy and Rossi or last year could have had Necas for Boldy and picks but no our guy Billy overvalues his guys and we are stuck without a true number 2 goal scorer.  That’s why do whatever you need to get Tuch and Thompson.  Throw in Boldy, Rossi, Faber and change this lazy soft team

How are a lot of players against playoff teams in the West?  A lot of the elite players aren't exactly lighting us up when we play them either.  I don't recall Eichel or Necas or a lot of other good players lighting us up when they played us.  Does that mean they are bad players?  You apparently think they are good, but it's only because you think the grass is greener over there.

The team isn't bad.  They still have a depth issue that should start improving more as soon as next season, especially if our young players progress a little further and if even one of the trio of Buium, Yurov, or Wallstedt makes a strong enough impact to warrant steady playing time in the NHL.  We will also likely pick up a FA with some skill.  The last thing we need is wholesale changes.

On what planet would we have gotten Eichel for Boldy and Rossi?  First of all, would Buffalo have wanted Boldy and Rossi for him?  Sure, they wanted a top prospect, but two?  Buffalo also wanted a first round pick.  Boldy hadn't played a game in the NHL at the time of the trade because he was injured in preseason and Rossi was still suffering the effects of myocarditis.  Buffalo was trying to advance further and actually make the playoffs.  They also wanted a NHLer. 

They might have been interested in one of them, but we would have still had to give them someone with a little scoring ability.  The only person other than Kaprizov that we really had at the time was Fiala, who was streaky and hadn't really broken out yet. Giving up Fiala and either Rossi or Boldy and our 1st that year means we also never get Faber, Ohgren, and Yurov since we would have lost both of the firsts we would have had that year.

Eichel was already unhappy in Buffalo.  You think Eichel would have waived his NMC to go to Minnesota, a team that would have just decimated their prospect pool of almost all soon-to-be incoming talent and had just jumped into the Parise/Suter buyouts?  Eichel wouldn't have even wanted to be here.

There was no guarantee Eichel's surgery would be successful.  If it didn't go well, the Wild would have given up there only prospects ready to start climbing into the NHL and doomed themselves to making sure that Kaprizov would already have one foot out the door as soon as his contract was up.

Even if it did go well, it would have still meant that we would have had a team that didn't have him for most of that year as we would have to somehow afford his 10M cap hit without having that kind of space, and couldn't use any of it since he was projected to only miss part of the season.

You add it all up and trading for Eichel would have made us worse, and Eichel would have been asking for another trade to get out from a team that never went anywhere.

And I guarantee you we wouldn't have gotten Necas for Boldy and picks.  Boldy and picks do not equal Rantanen unless those picks are firsts - and remember that we don't have one of those this year.  Teams usually want 1sts for this year, not for years down the road.  

It's been mentioned a number of times that Tuch is a guy that Buffalo doesn't seem to be interested in trading.  They'd rather deal guys like Cozens instead since Tuch gives them what they thought they would be getting out of Cozens - and for far less of a cap hit.  I also don't think they are that interested in trading Thompson. 

Just because you might want a player doesn't mean it is realistic or a good idea for Guerin to try and get that player.  Be patient.  This isn't the same Wild team as in the past.  We are far better poised to build a strong team that challenges for years to come if we stay patient.  We have never had this many good prospects on the way.  A couple of them will be good enough to displace players who aren't as effective and we should see a shift in talent as a result.  Prematurely undercutting that is a bad idea.

 

Edited February 8 by raithis
Typographical error

[SkolWild73]

8 minutes ago, raithis said:

How are a lot of players against playoff teams in the West?  A lot of the elite players aren't exactly lighting us up when we play them either.  I don't recall Eichel or Necas or a lot of other good players lighting us up when they played us.  Does that mean they are bad players?  You apparently think they are good, but it's only because you think the grass is greener over there.

The team isn't bad.  They still have a depth issue that should start improving more as soon as next season, especially if our young players progress a little further and if even one of the trio of Buium, Yurov, or Wallstedt makes a strong enough impact to warrant steady playing time in the NHL.  We will also likely pick up a FA with some skill.  The last thing we need is wholesale changes.

On what planet would we have gotten Eichel for Boldy and Rossi?  First of all, would Buffalo have wanted Boldy and Rossi for him?  Sure, they wanted a top prospect, but two?  Buffalo also wanted a first round pick.  Boldy hadn't played a game in the NHL at the time of the trade because he was injured in preseason and Rossi was still suffering the effects of myocarditis.  Buffalo was trying to advance further and actually make the playoffs.  They also wanted a NHLer. 

They might have been interested in one of them, but we would have still had to give them someone with a little scoring ability.  The only person other than Kaprizov that we really had at the time was Fiala, who was streaky and hadn't really broken out yet. Giving up Fiala and either Rossi or Boldy and our 1st that year means we also never get Faber, Ohgren, and Yurov since we would have lost both of the firsts we would have had that year.

Eichel was already unhappy in Buffalo.  You think Eichel would have waived his NMC to go to Minnesota, a team that would have just decimated their prospect pool of almost all soon-to-be incoming talent and had just jumped into the Parise/Suter buyouts?  Eichel wouldn't have even wanted to be here.

There was no guarantee Eichel's surgery would be successful.  If it didn't go well, the Wild would have given up there only prospects ready to start climbing into the NHL and doomed themselves to making sure that Kaprizov would already have one foot out the door as soon as his contract was up.

Even if it did go well, it would have still meant that we would have had a team that didn't have him for most of that year as we would have to somehow afford his 10M cap hit without having that kind of space, and couldn't use any of it since he was projected to only miss part of the season.

You add it all up and trading for Eichel would have made us worse, and Eichel would have been asking for another trade to get out from a team that never went anywhere.

And I guarantee you we wouldn't have gotten Necas for Boldy and picks.  Boldy and picks do not equal Rantanen unless those picks are firsts - and remember that we don't have one of those this year.  Teams usually want 1sts for this year, not for years down the road.  

It's been mentioned a number of times that Tuch is a guy that Buffalo doesn't seem to be interested in trading.  They'd rather deal guys like Cozens instead since Tuch gives them what they thought they would be getting out of Cozens - and for far less of a cap hit.  I also don't think they are that interested in trading Thompson. 

Just because you might want a player doesn't mean it is realistic or a good idea for Guerin to try and get that player.  Be patient.  This isn't the same Wild team as in the past.  We are far better poised to build a strong team that challenges for years to come if we stay patient.  We have never had this many good prospects on the way.  A couple of them will be good enough to displace players who aren't as effective and we should see a shift in talent as a result.  Prematurely undercutting that is a bad idea.

 

My thought exactly.  Thanks for saving me having to type it.

[SkolWild73]

2 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

 

We could have had Eichel a few years ago for Boldy and Rossi or last year could have had Necas for Boldy and picks but no our guy Billy overvalues his guys and we are stuck without a true number 2 goal scorer.  That’s why do whatever you need to get Tuch and Thompson.  Throw in Boldy, Rossi, Faber and change this lazy soft team

Necas for Boldy and picks?  Necas when he was 23, same as Boldy and Rossi, had 14 goals and 26 assist for 40 points, made a leap the next year and then took a step back the following year with only 53 points. Guess you would have wanted to trade him after his 40-point year at 23 like you want to trade Boldy and Rossi.  Rossi at 23 is on pace for 67 points and Boldy for 66.  If at the end of 2027 they have not taken the next step, then maybe if the deal is right for a serious upgrade we look at trading them.  At that point, they will still be 25 and have plenty of value for players scoring 60+ points a game.  Each year there are less than 100 players that hit 60 points, averaging around 3 or less per team, and that includes defenseman.  Your top teams get 4-5 guys getting 60 points.  Not sure why we would want to trade those types of players that are so young and not at their prime yet.

[mnhockeyfan03]

17 minutes ago, raithis said:

How are a lot of players against playoff teams in the West?  A lot of the elite players aren't exactly lighting us up when we play them either.  I don't recall Eichel or Necas or a lot of other good players lighting us up when they played us.  Does that mean they are bad players?  You apparently think they are good, but it's only because you think the grass is greener over there.

The team isn't bad.  They still have a depth issue that should start improving more as soon as next season, especially if our young players progress a little further and if even one of the trio of Buium, Yurov, or Wallstedt makes a strong enough impact to warrant steady playing time in the NHL.  We will also likely pick up a FA with some skill.  The last thing we need is wholesale changes.

On what planet would we have gotten Eichel for Boldy and Rossi?  First of all, would Buffalo have wanted Boldy and Rossi for him?  Sure, they wanted a top prospect, but two?  Buffalo also wanted a first round pick.  Boldy hadn't played a game in the NHL at the time of the trade because he was injured in preseason and Rossi was still suffering the effects of myocarditis.  Buffalo was trying to advance further and actually make the playoffs.  They also wanted a NHLer. 

They might have been interested in one of them, but we would have still had to give them someone with a little scoring ability.  The only person other than Kaprizov that we really had at the time was Fiala, who was streaky and hadn't really broken out yet. Giving up Fiala and either Rossi or Boldy and our 1st that year means we also never get Faber, Ohgren, and Yurov since we would have lost both of the firsts we would have had that year.

Eichel was already unhappy in Buffalo.  You think Eichel would have waived his NMC to go to Minnesota, a team that would have just decimated their prospect pool of almost all soon-to-be incoming talent and had just jumped into the Parise/Suter buyouts?  Eichel wouldn't have even wanted to be here.

There was no guarantee Eichel's surgery would be successful.  If it didn't go well, the Wild would have given up there only prospects ready to start climbing into the NHL and doomed themselves to making sure that Kaprizov would already have one foot out the door as soon as his contract was up.

Even if it did go well, it would have still meant that we would have had a team that didn't have him for most of that year as we would have to somehow afford his 10M cap hit without having that kind of space, and couldn't use any of it since he was projected to only miss part of the season.

You add it all up and trading for Eichel would have made us worse, and Eichel would have been asking for another trade to get out from a team that never went anywhere.

And I guarantee you we wouldn't have gotten Necas for Boldy and picks.  Boldy and picks do not equal Rantanen unless those picks are firsts - and remember that we don't have one of those this year.  Teams usually want 1sts for this year, not for years down the road.  

It's been mentioned a number of times that Tuch is a guy that Buffalo doesn't seem to be interested in trading.  They'd rather deal guys like Cozens instead since Tuch gives them what they thought they would be getting out of Cozens - and for far less of a cap hit.  I also don't think they are that interested in trading Thompson. 

Just because you might want a player doesn't mean it is realistic or a good idea for Guerin to try and get that player.  Be patient.  This isn't the same Wild team as in the past.  We are far better poised to build a strong team that challenges for years to come if we stay patient.  We have never had this many good prospects on the way.  A couple of them will be good enough to displace players who aren't as effective and we should see a shift in talent as a result.  Prematurely undercutting that is a bad idea.

 

Sorry but I don’t think you followed the Eichel thing much then.  He assumed he was going to be in MN when they interviewed him after being traded to Vegas.  He thought he was coming here.  And yes it was Boldy and Rossi they wanted which we should have done. Boldy and Rossi are not taking UBS to the promise land.  Either is Spurgeon or Faber.  Wow do MN fans have issues getting attached to players that aren’t going to move the needle when it matters.  

[mnhockeyfan03]

2 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Necas for Boldy and picks?  Necas when he was 23, same as Boldy and Rossi, had 14 goals and 26 assist for 40 points, made a leap the next year and then took a step back the following year with only 53 points. Guess you would have wanted to trade him after his 40-point year at 23 like you want to trade Boldy and Rossi.  Rossi at 23 is on pace for 67 points and Boldy for 66.  If at the end of 2027 they have not taken the next step, then maybe if the deal is right for a serious upgrade we look at trading them.  At that point, they will still be 25 and have plenty of value for players scoring 60+ points a game.  Each year there are less than 100 players that hit 60 points, averaging around 3 or less per team, and that includes defenseman.  Your top teams get 4-5 guys getting 60 points.  Not sure why we would want to trade those types of players that are so young and not at their prime yet.

Watch the games and you would have seen Necas was a much better player than anyone on our team last year besides Kap.

[SkolWild73]

46 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Going to take the high road on this one and say we have a disagreement on our feelings of our quality of players. If we keep who i have listed you will see how it plays out in 2-3 years not winning a cup.  Hopefully Billy doesn’t have the same feelings as you or he will be gone as well.  

Yea, we may not win a cup, and it will be easy to say you were right.  Considering only one of 32 teams wins a cup odds are in your favor.  But talking about fantasy trades that we don't even know if the other team would accept, is not going to change what Billy or the team does.  Like I said, I will root for this team no matter who plays for us.  Me hoping for other top players is not going to make it happen.

Hell, I would love to call up the GM for Colorado right now and hope he just got home from doing an 8 ball and downing a bottle of brandy and offer him Spurg and Rossi for McKinnon.  The money works and I would take that trade.

[SkolWild73]

3 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Watch the games and you would have seen Necas was a much better player than anyone on our team last year besides Kap.

Right, at 25.  Boldy and Rossi may be just as good or better when they get there.  He was not any better and by stats, was not as good as Boldy and Rossi at the same age.  That is why I say patience.  

[raithis]

1 minute ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Sorry but I don’t think you followed the Eichel thing much then.  He assumed he was going to be in MN when they interviewed him after being traded to Vegas.  He thought he was coming here.  And yes it was Boldy and Rossi they wanted which we should have done. Boldy and Rossi are not taking UBS to the promise land.  Either is Spurgeon or Faber.  Wow do MN fans have issues getting attached to players that aren’t going to move the needle when it matters.  

I'm not attached to any of them.  I'd trade any of them if it made the team better, but it is premature to trade them now.  Florida had a more talented, deeper team than we have now when they made the trade for Tkachuk.  They had slowly acquired and developed players until they had enough to work with where they could make a trade like that from a position of strength.

We aren't there yet.

We don't have that deep of team now where it's going to be anything but a setback in our trajectory forward if we do it now.  Instead of pushing us up into that upper tier, we will fall short and lose our chance to get there and stay there.

I'd have no problem trading Boldy or Rossi to do that when the time is right and the right player is available, but we need to have a deeper, more talented team before we make a swing like that.