Article: What Are the Wild’s Ideal Defensive Pairings When Brodin Returns?

[OldDutchChip]

11 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Agreed that they are the top defenseman on their team, but they are all 25 years or older while Faber is only 22.  He had 47 points last year as a rookie, so unless that turns out to be his best year, I do not see 40 points being his ceiling.  Granted he is only on pace for 34 points this year, but I would like to bet on his potential.  
 

I would agree with you if he was 25 or 26 and his best year was when he was 21, but I think it is too big of a gamble to trade him this early. Time will tell I suppose.

Faber has what like 20 pts this year? I mean seems like 40 pt max.....then next year - he will be off PP1 so that cuts the points total too (or at least makes it more difficult to get them) and i do realize it's more than just points, but i just don't see him being a number 1 D on our team. would you not pull the trigger in the offseason if he lands you elias?

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

100% agree that this is an important step in a SC push. Vegas & Florida are recent examples. JE & MT were great additions at just the right moment. My opinion is that we’re a couple of seasons away. The Wild chose to rebuild through the draft. Until we see how those top picks fit in we don’t have the depth to be a top contender. I hate waiting. I waited 5 years for KK, it’s almost 5 years to see some long lasting results from the Granlund trade. But the team has been slowly getting better. I’m confident that when the Wild are one big trade away from truly contending they’ll pull the trigger. 

we are almost there.....we've heard this before as Wild fans. 

i get that to a lot of fans  - to trade a MN son is unconceivable! 

but it may be a smart thing to do and may bring results

yes - Vegas knew what it wanted and got it. do we want the same or do we want to field a team with Minnesota ties? then bring on the Brocks. 😞

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Zeev is left-handed first of all. I love me some Brods and think he's one of the most underrated d-men in the league but he's getting older and injuries are starting to catch up with him, he's missed 20 games each of the last 2 seasons.

We've got nobody in Iowa that fits the bill of a tall, heavy, good skating RHD and those guys don't just spring up on the market especially for 8.5m. Faber is a franchise guy and is only 22.

so you going to play Faber and Zeev together ....what will instill fear in every opponent! 

brodin is 31 and still skates better than EVERY one on the team. he is your best D and if he needs more load management in the future - bump him down and play zeev with jiricek. 

in all this - faber is the guy that is replaceable. i suppose midds and spurge can be added but you will not get the same haul as you would for faber. 

question for you too - Faber for Elias. No or Yes?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

14 hours ago, Sam said:

It sounds like you have pretty high expectations for Buium if you have him at the first pairing. But it sounds like this Wheeler guy does too. I hope he turns out and his skill translates to the NHL.

It was just trying to find the best pairings. Brodin and Jiricek seemed like a really strong pairing that would allow Jiricek to use his offense while Brodin focuses more on defense to balance them out. Brodin is clearly a superior skater while that's Jiricek's main deficiency. Spurgeon and Middleton have done well in the past and I'm not sure we want to count on top pairing minutes for either.

Faber and Buium should be a huge part of the future Wild defense, and Buium has been getting the most ice time, by far, in NCAA tourney and world championships because of his strong 2-way game. Might as well get them building that top line connection early on.

Found out a little earlier that the Wild are rated top 2 ahead of Montreal, which really surprised me given that they have several good prospects and their top player, Demidov, is expected to be a superstar. He has Michael Hage listed 4th for them and he's a freshman C for Michigan that's top 2 in points for them. He's the guy I hoped the Wild would draft if Buium wasn't there.

Here's one snippet of his praise for Demidov:

Quote

After returning[from injury late last year], he tore up the MHL with one multi-point game after another and five to 10 shots per game, putting together one of the most productive extended stretches of play ever at Russia’s top junior level and making pretty goals look casual. This season, despite averaging under 13 minutes per game on the year (though he has played 18-to-20-plus of late), he’s still SKA’s second-leading scorer.

Demidov’s one of the most dynamic and skilled prospects to come out of Russia in recent memory (his game also has more of a pro style, competitiveness and roundedness to it than Michkov’s had at the same age).

Been anxious to read what he has to say about Wild prospects, particularly Yurov. Just Sharks and Wild remaining, so won't be long.

[SkolWild73]

10 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Faber has what like 20 pts this year? I mean seems like 40 pt max.....then next year - he will be off PP1 so that cuts the points total too (or at least makes it more difficult to get them) and i do realize it's more than just points, but i just don't see him being a number 1 D on our team. would you not pull the trigger in the offseason if he lands you elias?

As much as I would love to have Elias on our team, I do not think that I would.  I get that he is a ppg player, (except for this year for whatever reason), but I am also looking to the future of the team.  Spurgeon only has two years left after this year and Brodin 3.  Brodin will probably get resigned if he isn't showing signs of regression and I feel he is the type of player that can play until he is 37.  But after Spurgeon is gone our Top 4 D will be Faber, Zeev, Brodin and Midds.  I believe that Juricek has a chance to fit into that top 4 spot at that time also, but I would love some insurance in case Brodin does regress or injuries continue, and Juricek does not develop as fast as we hope.

Also, you are assuming Vancouver would make that trade also.

[M_Nels]

14 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

so you going to play Faber and Zeev together ....what will instill fear in every opponent! 

brodin is 31 and still skates better than EVERY one on the team. he is your best D and if he needs more load management in the future - bump him down and play zeev with jiricek. 

in all this - faber is the guy that is replaceable. i suppose midds and spurge can be added but you will not get the same haul as you would for faber. 

question for you too - Faber for Elias. No or Yes?

I didn't say anything about Zeev and Faber having to pair together. You said Zeev arriving essentially makes Faber expendable but they aren't the same hand so he's not going to take over Faber's spot as a RHD. 

I'm not disputing anything you're saying about Brodin, his age and injury history are the concerns with him.

If any of our d are expendable it's Chisholm.

No, I would not trade Faber for Elias.

Edited Thursday at 04:31 PM by M_Nels

[OldDutchChip]

6 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

As much as I would love to have Elias on our team, I do not think that I would.  I get that he is a ppg player, (except for this year for whatever reason), but I am also looking to the future of the team.  Spurgeon only has two years left after this year and Brodin 3.  Brodin will probably get resigned if he isn't showing signs of regression and I feel he is the type of player that can play until he is 37.  But after Spurgeon is gone our Top 4 D will be Faber, Zeev, Brodin and Midds.  I believe that Juricek has a chance to fit into that top 4 spot at that time also, but I would love some insurance in case Brodin does regress or injuries continue, and Juricek does not develop as fast as we hope.

Also, you are assuming Vancouver would make that trade also.

take out all the variables. if Van is willing....are you willing? i personally jump on this.

Jiricek Brodin Zeev Middleton Spurge Bogo and you can find a 2/3rd D if Jiri is not ready. 

you just don't find Elias type players out there. 

[OldDutchChip]

12 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

I didn't say anything about Zeev and Faber having to pair together. You said Zeev arriving essentially makes Faber expendable but they aren't the same hand so he's not going to take over Faber's spot as a RHD. 

I'm not disputing anything you're saying about Brodin, his age and injury history are the concerns with him.

If any of our d are expendable it's Chisholm.

No, I would not trade Faber for Elias.

Yeap, i am saying that Faber is expandable with Zeev and Jiri coming in and is the one i would pick to move.

He has the most value / hype right now and can bring us what we need most - an offensive threat. Elias can solidify a monstrous line with Kap and Yurov. 

 

Edited Thursday at 04:43 PM by OldDutchChip

[M_Nels]

19 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Jiricek Brodin Zeev Middleton Spurge Bogo and you can find a 2/3rd D if Jiri is not ready. 

you just don't find Elias type players out there. 

Then what are your plans for next year and beyond for RHD? BOGO is old and a serviceable 7th D at best after this season.  You want to get rid if Spurge for peanuts so what is it? 

You don't find franchise RHD out there either.

11 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

He has the most value / hype right now and can bring us what we need most - an offensive threat. Elias can solidify a monstrous line with Kap and Yurov.

He's a Euro that doesn't play the heavy/mean game like you want. He's skilled but I thought we needed B. Tkachuk types to make this team a contender and to protect Kap?

Edited Thursday at 04:55 PM by M_Nels

[FredJohnson]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

the rest of the list is unquestionably THE top defenders on their team. faber isn't and won't be next year or any other time if all the whispers about zeev is true and jiricek comes into his own. 

the point i am making is it's smart to figure out if you want to capitalize on Faber's peak value or not. if not - then you will be fine - he will be your 2nd/3rd D with 40 pts ceiling. 

or you want to see if you can get an offensive dynamo to pair with Kaprizov? i'd wager that's the way to go. 

again you have Zeev, Brodin, Midds and Jiricek as that core. You also likely to have at least ONE D from AHL finally develop into something. Now is the time to parlay some of that depth into what is missing. and we know what's missing. we have seen it play out on the ice with Kaprizov. You need offense. And Faber can get you that so i'd ship him out in the off season.

If!

[SkolWild73]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

take out all the variables. if Van is willing....are you willing? i personally jump on this.

Jiricek Brodin Zeev Middleton Spurge Bogo and you can find a 2/3rd D if Jiri is not ready. 

you just don't find Elias type players out there. 

Elias makes 11.6 mill a year.  For whatever reason, he is having a down year by his standards, 11g and 22a in 47 games, and only 6g and 15a in 5 on 5.  Maybe it is just a bad year, but same can be said for Faber's stats this year also.

I believe, as well as most hockey analysts, that Faber will be a top guy in the league.  Like I said before, if Faber was a few years older and had peeked in his rookie year I would be for it.  I just do not see that happening.  And it has nothing to do with him being a Minnesota boy.

As far as taking out all the variables, I suppose a trade for Elias would make sense on paper.  But you have to look at variables when you are looking at building a team and making trades.  You need to look at future contracts, potential and age of a player, where your salary cap will be and other factors.  For me, the potential of having two young studs as a defensive core for years to come outweighs going after Elias.

[OldDutchChip]

Just now, M_Nels said:

Then what are your plans for next year and beyond for RHD? BOGO is old and a serviceable 7th D at best after this season.  You want to get rid if Spurge for peanuts so what is it? 

You don't find franchise RHD out there either.

He's a Euro that doesn't play the heavy/mean game like you want. He's skilled but I thought we needed B. Tkachuk types to make this team a contender?

we have spurge still here for two years. he does not have the same appeal as faber, but is a right handed shot and can handle 2nd pair just fine. 

jiricek is a right hand shot and could be a great compliment to zeev or you ease them both in - Brodin/Jiri and Zeev / Spurge

it's much easier to find a 2nd / 3rd pair D who is a right hand shot than a world class offensive player - and that is who Elias is. 

Who cares if he is a Euro? Kaprizov is a Euro! Because he is not a Minnesotan you ding him? Not cool. 

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

If!

what do you want fred?

[FredJohnson]

7 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

so what is it?

It’s constant complaining about anything and everything. Never. Ever. Happy.

[FredJohnson]

1 minute ago, OldDutchChip said:

what do you want fred?

[M_Nels]

Just now, OldDutchChip said:

Who cares if he is a Euro? Kaprizov is a Euro! Because he is not a Minnesotan you ding him? Not cool. 

I couldn't care less if he was from Europe, Russia, New Mexico, Minnesota or Timbuktu.

Fact is he doesn't play a heavy/mean game like you've said ad nauseam on this forum that this team needs to protect Kap and other star players.

[OldDutchChip]

4 minutes ago, SkolWild73 said:

Elias makes 11.6 mill a year.  For whatever reason, he is having a down year by his standards, 11g and 22a in 47 games, and only 6g and 15a in 5 on 5.  Maybe it is just a bad year, but same can be said for Faber's stats this year also.

I believe, as well as most hockey analysts, that Faber will be a top guy in the league.  Like I said before, if Faber was a few years older and had peeked in his rookie year I would be for it.  I just do not see that happening.  And it has nothing to do with him being a Minnesota boy.

As far as taking out all the variables, I suppose a trade for Elias would make sense on paper.  But you have to look at variables when you are looking at building a team and making trades.  You need to look at future contracts, potential and age of a player, where your salary cap will be and other factors.  For me, the potential of having two young studs as a defensive core for years to come outweighs going after Elias.

right so now ask yourself - would an addition of Elias be more valuable to the team than retention of Faber? (11.6 vs 8.5 is no biggie once MJ is gone and we have an increasing cap so that should not matter; more importantly it helps us sell a vision to Kap and we can say - here play with Elias - have fun.....that's something!)....too bad we won't find out. but i think you pull a trigger on that.  

 

[Burnt Toast]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

brodin and buium. you use suter 2.0

We need depth on defense too. Brods needs someone to fill in whenever necessary. I think Faber brings a vibe to the Wild that sets him apart from Suter. He is going to have his own unique legacy. Ask yourself this question. If you absolutely had to trade either Boldy, Rossi or Faber, assuming the return was the same, who would it be? For me it’s not an easy decision.

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

I couldn't care less if he was from Europe, Russia, New Mexico, Minnesota or Timbuktu.

Fact is he doesn't play a heavy/mean game like you've said ad nauseam on this forum that this team needs to protect Kap and other star players.

Did you not say this? He's a Euro that doesn't play the heavy/mean game like you want...

why an emphasis on Euro then? Obviously that matters to you to point out. 

and i did say before about heavy/mean game. i actually think having a guy who is 6'2 may help in that. and maybe he won't be the last of the puzzle to fit and you can still get that physicality added in FA. 

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Burnt Toast said:

We need depth on defense too. Brods needs someone to fill in whenever necessary. I think Faber brings a vibe to the Wild that sets him apart from Suter. He is going to have his own unique legacy. Ask yourself this question. If you absolutely had to trade either Boldy, Rossi or Faber, assuming the return was the same, who would it be? For me it’s not an easy decision.

i'd trade 2 out of 3. i can't believe i'm going to say this - but i'd keep Rossi. 

• Boldy for Svech
• Faber for Elias 

and then we really don't need to play D!

Elias Yurov Kap Svech Ek Rossi (Zuccy) as your top 6 is something

 

[M_Nels]

6 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Did you not say this? He's a Euro that doesn't play the heavy/mean game like you want...

why an emphasis on Euro then? Obviously that matters to you to point out. 

and i did say before about heavy/mean game. i actually think having a guy who is 6'2 may help in that. and maybe he won't be the last of the puzzle to fit and you can still get that physicality added in FA. 

Because skilled Euro guys have a reputation for playing finesse games and not heavy and mean. If it offended you or anyone else on here I apologize, I very easily could've left that off.

Boldy is 6'2 and has 15lbs on Elias and he's not a bruiser either. 

Edited Thursday at 05:15 PM by M_Nels

[Burnt Toast]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

then we really don't need to play D!

Even Edmonton can’t get away with that!! 

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, M_Nels said:

Because skilled Euro guys have a reputation for playing finesse games and not heavy and mean. If it offended you or anyone else on here I apologize, I very easily could've left that off.

Boldy is 6'2 and has 15lbs on Elias and he's not a bruiser either. 

🍺

Boldy....what to do with him? haha

has he scored 50 yet?

[SkolWild73]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

right so now ask yourself - would an addition of Elias be more valuable to the team than retention of Faber? (11.6 vs 8.5 is no biggie once MJ is gone and we have an increasing cap so that should not matter; more importantly it helps us sell a vision to Kap and we can say - here play with Elias - have fun.....that's something!)....too bad we won't find out. but i think you pull a trigger on that.  

 

I do not think getting Elias is more valuable than retaining Faber for the future of the team, but it is close.  Trading away a 22-year-old defenseman who played the 6th most minutes for a Dman in the NHL last year as a rookie and had the second best 5 on 5 plus minus out of those players behind only Drew Doughty does not make sense to me.  I know you do not think he is a top Dman, but obviously our coaches do, or he would not be getting all the minutes that he does.  If we were to trade Faber, it would have to be for someone better than Elias in my opinion.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

Even Edmonton can’t get away with that!! 

we'd be even more kick ass than EDM. and EDM just came out of SC Finals.