Article: Does the Yakov Trenin Contract Look Better In Light Of the Expected Cap Explosion?

[Imyourhuckleberry]

24 minutes ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

Minnesota is labeled as roughly 5th in terms of total taxation depending on how you do your figuring, but no question we are top ten.  When I looked at rates I looked at income, property, and sales, and we are top third in the country in all three categories. 

That's true. MN is one of the least dependent upon the federal government for their state operations and budget. They are one of just 9 states that receives less than 1/3 of their state budget from federal funds and less than 60 cents in federal funding back from every dollar paid in federal income tax. The others are listed below.

Utah
Illinois
Virginia(despite the highest fed payments per capita)
California
Massachusetts
Connecticut
Washington
New Jersey

Maryland, Nevada, and Colorado are really close--below 35% federally funded. Wisconsin and Kansas weren't far off of the listed parameters either, but both received 64 cents back for each dollar paid into the federal government.

I'm not suggesting that players should care, but was looking into it and thought I'd share those findings. MN is a good hockey market, but there are plenty of solid options to choose from if someone truly wanted to shop around.

Most top players should be able to live comfortably after retirement regardless of where they play, assuming they don't get swindled by bad investments.

[FredJohnson]

3 hours ago, RedLake said:

I can't see why Kaprizov would sign a contract here. Highest state income tax in the nation. I hope he does sign, but if I was Kaprizov I'd be looking to Flordia or California 

State tax impact is only half of what one thinks is: American workers have their income taxed by the state they work in. Pro athletes pay state taxes on the game day checks and/or prorated season salary for each game they play in every state they play in (and Canadia + its provinces/territories). 

[Dis-allowed display name]

22 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

State tax impact is only half of what one thinks is: American workers have their income taxed by the state they work in. Pro athletes pay state taxes on the game day checks and/or prorated season salary for each game they play in every state they play in (and Canadia + its provinces/territories). 

This is absolutely true, with the caveat that it must be in their state tax law that visiting player pay local tax.  I assume most have done it, I am not sure all have.  I think actually MN was one of the first to adopt this and would assume most states have followed.

If you are a four million guy, a couple hundred thousand in tax may not matter to you, or maybe it does.   The factor increases with star power though, so for top guys it could be more of an issue if an equal offer comes in from Texas or Fla. 

If Kaprisov is expected to make $14m here and pay roughly 10% bracket, just counting half the home games played in MN means $700k in MN state tax per season.  It would be $0 in for the Dallas Stars.  The other games in other cities would be roughly the same regardless of who he plays for.  On a five year deal that is $3.5 million more in his pocket to play for Dallas earning the same money.

Edited Friday at 10:13 PM by Dis-allowed display name

[FredJohnson]

3 minutes ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

This is absolutely true, with the caveat that it must be in their state tax law that visiting player pay local tax.  I assume most have done it, I am not sure all have.  I think actually MN was one of the first to adopt this and would assume most states have followed.

If you are a four million guy, a couple hundred thousand in tax may not matter to you, or maybe it does.   The factor increases with star power though, so for top guys it could be more of an issue if an equal offer comes in from Texas or Fla. 

If Kaprisov is expected to make $14m here and pay roughly 10% bracket, just counting half the home games means $700k in MN state tax.  It would be $0 in for the Dallas Stars.  

Does it help if one homesteads in a lower tax state? Say, Kiril has a home in Florida and homesteads it, do bonuses get FL tax or is it taxed by MN because that’s where the Wild organization is located (contract executed in MN).

[Dango]

If Kaprizov cares about playing on a national stage id have to think the west would be a no, ,playing games that late at night i wouldn't think would be much of a national stage , everyone from MN and east would be asleep  .   Rangers , Bruins ,Blackhawks are the ESPN chosen ones .   I also think those teams  will be not much better or worse than the Wild.  Id predict its MN or  FL .  

[Will D. Ness]

1 hour ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

It would be $0 in for the Dallas Stars.  

There is a tax for living in Dallas.  It's called the "I have to live in Dallas tax".

[RazWild]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Most top players should be able to live comfortably after retirement regardless of where they play, assuming they don't get swindled by bad investments.

Unless you're Evander Kane. 🤣

Edited Friday at 11:25 PM by RazWild

[mnfaninnc]

5 hours ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

FWIW, my wife and I are getting close to retirement and looking to bail mostly due to taxes.  Minnesota is labeled as roughly 5th in terms of total taxation depending on how you do your figuring, but no question we are top ten.  When I looked at rates I looked at income, property, and sales, and we are top third in the country in all three categories. 

You should check out the Carolinas. Both states are pretty good with taxes, though Charlotte is getting pricey. If you live in the middle, you are about 2 hours from the beach and mountains. 

[mnfaninnc]

3 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

Does it help if one homesteads in a lower tax state? Say, Kiril has a home in Florida and homesteads it, do bonuses get FL tax or is it taxed by MN because that’s where the Wild organization is located (contract executed in MN).

I think some NFL players have actually signed deals in FL or TX to get their signing bonus out of state income taxes. I would assume that could also happen for NHLers. I'm not sure about the performance bonuses though. 

But, look at the whole picture and include the property taxes too. Sales tax is only a piece when you are living there in the offseason (like if Kaprizov's residence was actually in FL). The nice thing about MN is the lakes and moderate temps in the summer when it's offseason. It can get pretty sticky in the south. 

[mnfaninnc]

In watching Trenin play, to me, it seems like he just hasn't clicked yet. I don't think we've seen the best of him. I thought he was brought into the organization as insurance for another Foligno injury so we would survive like we didn't last season. 

I thought he was advertised as faster. Is he playing with cement in his skates? I just don't think we've seen what he can do fully yet and it's been 52 games. Maybe he just hasn't clicked with the right linemates yet? Playoffs have a funny way of resetting what we think of players.

[FredJohnson]

57 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think some NFL players have actually signed deals in FL or TX to get their signing bonus out of state income taxes. I would assume that could also happen for NHLers. I'm not sure about the performance bonuses though. 

But, look at the whole picture and include the property taxes too. Sales tax is only a piece when you are living there in the offseason (like if Kaprizov's residence was actually in FL). The nice thing about MN is the lakes and moderate temps in the summer when it's offseason. It can get pretty sticky in the south. 

Good call. 👍

[Pewterschmidt]

10 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I thought he was brought into the organization as insurance for another Foligno injury so we would survive like we didn't last season. 

I think this is correct.  He’s our in-house DLo, Reaves, Maroon.  I like the strategy and T-stain is a large body so it makes sense. Maybe it’s the first time in his career where he’s had job security so he’s taking a breath this year (see: apathetic old core that coasted all last year when they got extensions)

[Pewterschmidt]

10 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Maybe he just hasn't clicked with the right linemates yet? Playoffs have a funny way of resetting what we think of players.

He’s had 52 games to click.  This is who he is. If he plays with some urgency and begins to play a physical game fans will come around.  Everyone knows he’s a goon.  Any offense is gravy.  The bar is not high Russian rag-ass.  Go to net, make chaos.  

[Patrick]

On 1/31/2025 at 10:48 AM, Pewterschmidt said:

Ok, we're now admitting that Trenin is horse shit, the honesty is refreshing.

There are still the hold outs that say his cyber metrics show he's effective defensively (don't believe it) but the eye test proves every night that he's got no offensive skills.  Think Delaurias, without the fighting or the checking.  Great!

Deslauriers was TERRIBLE offensively and defensively.  He only hit and fought. A team of Trenin's would annihilate a team of Deslaurier's.  Trenin is good defensively. The metrics and the eye test show that.

[raithis]

38 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Deslauriers was TERRIBLE offensively and defensively.  He only hit and fought. A team of Trenin's would annihilate a team of Deslaurier's.  Trenin is good defensively. The metrics and the eye test show that.

Agreed.  I also think the reason Trenin plays slower is because he's trying to be reliable defensively.  Khusnutdinov has done much the same for most of this season until the last two games.  You can tell Trenin has speed but he just doesn't put it into the next gear and plays slower because he hasn't gotten a good enough feel for the other people on his line and where they are going to be.  With all the injuries and line juggling this season, I'm not surprised. 

A more offensively-minded player will gamble more than a defensively-minded player, and then we see the offensively-minded player as making an impact even though they might be a defensive liability.

I'm still convinced that signing Trenin was a good idea and I think that overall he's helped make us a better team.  The contact felt like a year too long, but we'll see how it goes I guess.

I also think Trenin gets singled out more because he was our main off-season signing.  People wanted a scorer and they got him so they expect him to be something that he isn't.

[Sam]

1 hour ago, raithis said:

 The contact felt like a year too long

Or two, or three.. especially the first 30 or 40 games where he didn’t contribute much. He does appear to move slow, but yea I think he’s just being cautious. He’s shown bursts of speed like on breakaways and such.

[Dis-allowed display name]

22 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

Does it help if one homesteads in a lower tax state? Say, Kiril has a home in Florida and homesteads it, do bonuses get FL tax or is it taxed by MN because that’s where the Wild organization is located (contract executed in MN).

If a player were to "homestead" somewhere in FLA (or Texas, Tenn, SD, etc)  they would escape tax on "other" income.  Endorsements, investments, side businesses owned, appearances.

In order to homestead you need to spend the majority of the year in that place so if taken to court you would need to prove you lived at least 183 days out of the year there.   Lots of the so called "snow birds"  spend 183 days or more in Arizona or FLA or wherever, and if they come back to their MN home for less than 183 days, they get to keep a residence here and avoid state income tax.  Most of my relatives do this.

Edited Saturday at 08:35 PM by Dis-allowed display name

[FredJohnson]

6 hours ago, Dis-allowed display name said:

If a player were to "homestead" somewhere in FLA (or Texas, Tenn, SD, etc)  they would escape tax on "other" income.  Endorsements, investments, side businesses owned, appearances.

In order to homestead you need to spend the majority of the year in that place so if taken to court you would need to prove you lived at least 183 days out of the year there.   Lots of the so called "snow birds"  spend 183 days or more in Arizona or FLA or wherever, and if they come back to their MN home for less than 183 days, they get to keep a residence here and avoid state income tax.  Most of my relatives do this.

Much obliged, Dis!