Article: We Need To Talk About The Brocks

[FredJohnson]

On Russo and Tony Pants' podcast (Worst Seat In The House) that dropped yesterday, Russo said nonchalantly the Wild will sign Nelson this offseason. He said it in a way that made me replay it a couple times. 😳

[FredJohnson]

17 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

The money the Wild have after signing Kaprizov and Rossi to extensions will tell the tale.  I shudder to think spending another $7-8m on either of the Brocks if they have defensive liability.  If you can get Nelson for a little cheaper, he at least has that coveted positional flexibility.

With the cap going up a lot very soon, Rossi would be smart to do a shorter deal (3 years?) and bet on himself. Whether that's with us or another team.

[Pewterschmidt]

2 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

Rossi would be smart to do a shorter deal (3 years?) and bet on himself.

This is best case scenrio for Wild fans.  Hopefully we re-sign him for 3 years.  It's like buying a put option on Rossi's development.  If he becomes a superstar over next three years and we pay him OR we deal him for assets because all our can't miss prospects have bloomed into roses by then.  BG should hope for that optionality in the future.

[mnfaninnc]

Thank you Tony for a comprehensive perspective on the Brocks. It was good and balanced!

At this point, I would be unwilling to do Nelson at $7m, I'd be more inclined at $2.9m to do something. Perhaps this is way too much of a discount, but he's gaining years and his current deal is paying him $4m this year. 

Is it the system or not that makes these guys defensive liabilities? I don't think so. Both the Islanders and Canucks are playing structured defensive systems this year. If they are liabilities in this type of system, they will be here too. 

Tony's 2nd to last paragraph probably is where I stand on the Brocks, promote from within, stand clear of them. But this is just for the Brocks. I stand still for a Tuch trade deal and re-signing him. I'd also like another RHS piece if we can find it, and also someone who plays a bit mean with skill just like Tuch. 

I don't think we, as a team, lack skill. I think we, as a team, lack grit among our skilled players, and that would be the thing that needs shoring up, multifaceted players who can bring the crunch along with the points. At this point, it seems we have players who are either/or, not and, and this was necessary due to the buyouts. We had to pick up guys who lacked in one of the areas. 

If it were me trying to build the team, what I would want to do is keep the 2015 draft guys, Ek and Kaprizov. Those are your veteran leaders. I wouldn't mind adding another one from that draft class. Tuch was the year before but in the same grouping. Then I'd try and load up on draft classes of '20-22 and have 7 or 8 players from that grouping. Faber and Jiricek traded in from those classes was a good move. That's your core. 

And then you backfill with other pieces to get the balance you need. Brodin is a good piece for that, Midsy too. Let your core eat minutes and play fast, wear the other teams down. I'd like to save enough room to have a hired gun come in at the TDL when we are contending, but no more Hanzals and Pomenvilles, guys who play playoff type hockey. XGMCF had no clue on how a locker room worked. At least Shooter has that going for him. 

Rantanen would probably be a nice piece, he's a very large body, but does he play large, or does he mainly shield the puck? I think a guy who's more like Landeskog (a player that Ohgren really admires), is the kind of thing we need, but I'm not sure Landeskog will ever be the same again. 

I guess the best way of putting this is that we need more than Jack Russells on the team. We need a couple of Dobermans and maybe a Pit Bull or 2. Guys who have the skill but somehow find that extra gear and extra intensity at the times it is needed the most. I don't think either Brock gets us there. 

ODC-you've been confused over Brock Nelson's injury status. Could you be mixing him up with Anders Lee?

[OldDutchChip]

6 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Thank you Tony for a comprehensive perspective on the Brocks. It was good and balanced!

At this point, I would be unwilling to do Nelson at $7m, I'd be more inclined at $2.9m to do something. Perhaps this is way too much of a discount, but he's gaining years and his current deal is paying him $4m this year. 

Is it the system or not that makes these guys defensive liabilities? I don't think so. Both the Islanders and Canucks are playing structured defensive systems this year. If they are liabilities in this type of system, they will be here too. 

Tony's 2nd to last paragraph probably is where I stand on the Brocks, promote from within, stand clear of them. But this is just for the Brocks. I stand still for a Tuch trade deal and re-signing him. I'd also like another RHS piece if we can find it, and also someone who plays a bit mean with skill just like Tuch. 

I don't think we, as a team, lack skill. I think we, as a team, lack grit among our skilled players, and that would be the thing that needs shoring up, multifaceted players who can bring the crunch along with the points. At this point, it seems we have players who are either/or, not and, and this was necessary due to the buyouts. We had to pick up guys who lacked in one of the areas. 

If it were me trying to build the team, what I would want to do is keep the 2015 draft guys, Ek and Kaprizov. Those are your veteran leaders. I wouldn't mind adding another one from that draft class. Tuch was the year before but in the same grouping. Then I'd try and load up on draft classes of '20-22 and have 7 or 8 players from that grouping. Faber and Jiricek traded in from those classes was a good move. That's your core. 

And then you backfill with other pieces to get the balance you need. Brodin is a good piece for that, Midsy too. Let your core eat minutes and play fast, wear the other teams down. I'd like to save enough room to have a hired gun come in at the TDL when we are contending, but no more Hanzals and Pomenvilles, guys who play playoff type hockey. XGMCF had no clue on how a locker room worked. At least Shooter has that going for him. 

Rantanen would probably be a nice piece, he's a very large body, but does he play large, or does he mainly shield the puck? I think a guy who's more like Landeskog (a player that Ohgren really admires), is the kind of thing we need, but I'm not sure Landeskog will ever be the same again. 

I guess the best way of putting this is that we need more than Jack Russells on the team. We need a couple of Dobermans and maybe a Pit Bull or 2. Guys who have the skill but somehow find that extra gear and extra intensity at the times it is needed the most. I don't think either Brock gets us there. 

ODC-you've been confused over Brock Nelson's injury status. Could you be mixing him up with Anders Lee?

i think it was Larkin 🙂 or maybe Nelson just looks injured? he has that wary bruised face that says - i've suffered things.

i'll add a couple of things to your post -

• let's not commit unnecessary money that could be combined and spent better....should nelson $ be anywhere from 4-6 range (which is very likely to be) = that is money that could be used for other needs (Kap, More Attractive FA)
• Rantannen would be a monster signing as he is that monster player, just not sure how realistic it is for him to leave CO and for him to leave to a Central foe? But if Ranty wants 12, you pay him immediately - and forget any thought of additional Brocks....hence be wise with $  (Landy is likely done playing)
• Realistically - i think Billy already has a vision and it's Nelson or nothing this year. But if we are to dream - i agree with you on Tuch, but i'll add Miller up there (really to me - that kind of a player does not normally become available and should he - you jump) and would be fine if Ek goes out for Miller (i think issue with him are overblown and to give Kap another superstar (which i feel Miller still is and will be for the next 2-3 years) is worth the gamble
• Under the radar good trade option - give SEA some prospects not Zeev/Yurov and maybe Foligno! (give them a collection from his best fights) and bring in Yanni

 

 

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

This is best case scenrio for Wild fans.  Hopefully we re-sign him for 3 years.  It's like buying a put option on Rossi's development.  If he becomes a superstar over next three years and we pay him OR we deal him for assets because all our can't miss prospects have bloomed into roses by then.  BG should hope for that optionality in the future.

very unlikely he settles for that given that Wild may bring in a FA and we have Yurov arrival....this may mean less time and less production and less money....

but if he wants a bridge - done

[Enforceror]

Thoughts on Trent Frederic?

[Mateo3xm]

33 is getting long in the tooth. I’d say pass on Brock.

[Patrick]

4 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

Can this Brock skate? (Is he big enough for the playoffs?)

If he was faster than McDavid and had better hands than Datsyuk, then he would be good enough for ODC's third line!

[hydguy75]

11 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

Can this Brock skate? (Is he big enough for the playoffs?)

Heard he only figure skates.  

[SkolWild73]

On 1/23/2025 at 5:07 PM, Dango said:

I have a feeling Rantanen is going get 12 mill  but im no expert on those things.

Well, after the trade to Carolina I am guessing we will not be getting him.  Reading up on the trade it looks like he is looking for an 8 year 14 mill per contract and the Avs did not want to give him that. Can’t imagine us doing that either.  Assuming Carolina is planning to.  If not that is one hell of an all in move for this year.

[RazWild]

Er, well..... the Rantanen talk can die the F*** out now.

He just got traded to Carolina for Necas, Drury, a 2nd and a 4th. All part of a 3 way trade between Colorado, Chicago, and Carolina.

Carolina also got Hall in the trade from Chicago. While Chicago got a 3rd from Carolina for retaining half of Rantanen's contract.

Hall must've gone for future considerations, since Chicago seems to just be dumping his contract.

Edited Saturday at 04:06 AM by RazWild

[Citizen Strife]

It all but confirms Colorado didn't want to do $13-15m.  Hardly a chance the Wild would do that in the offseason when that's Kaprizov money.

Edited Saturday at 11:28 AM by Citizen Strife

[MacGyver]

At least Rantanen is out of the conference. I'm sure Colorado didn't want him too close.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out for both Colorado and Carolina. I always felt the earlier you can pull the trigger on a trade the better rather than waiting right up to the deadline.  Necas is no Rantanen so it will be interesting to see if Colorado can keep pace after a seismic shift or if Rantanen thrives in Carolina or does a Stamkos. As I like to say players aren't always plug and play. 

Edited Saturday at 11:49 AM by MacGyver

[Pewterschmidt]

3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Necas is no Rantanen

Agree but Necas projects to be a beast in next few years.  Another master class move by Sakic?

1) avoiding a 15M contract

 2) getting an up and coming stud we’ll have to fear for next 5 years at affordable price

 I’d bet on sakic in this one

a team budget can only handle so many 15M contracts so this could look real smart if necas becomes a stud 

Edited Saturday at 03:47 PM by Pewterschmidt

[Imyourhuckleberry]

37 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Agree but Necas projects to be a beast in next few years.  Another master class move by Sakic?

Necas at half the cost of Rantanen next season. That leaves room for another impact player. That was my argument against trading Boldy for him. Rantanen's team is saying $12.5M is not enough. Sounds like that's where Colorado was likely willing to go to keep his deal just below McKinnon.

Rantanen at $14M might be a fine deal for some team, but I agree it's hard to have a lot of guys in that range. One would think they don't make the deal without being confident they can sign him.

Carolina has a bunch of cap space next season, but trying to re-sign Rantanen and Orlov while replacing Brent Burns could use up a lot of it. They'll need to sign a 2nd goalie and several depth forwards as well.

[OldDutchChip]

Ranty is gone to the east - great news for Wild! Why? Cause Necas is not in the same class as Ranty and now Avs ARE beatable!

this is another Tuch for Eichel move and Avs are not getting Eichel

money talk is fine but loosing a stud like Ranty is going to hurt …. Yeah I know that in theory you can replace him with Necas plus ….. plus what? Sum of these two parts won’t likely come close to Ranty 

canes will pay him 12-14 and be fine w that

cap will be at 100 soon so it’s going to be a steal

shit I wonder if we could have sent them boldy for him? 🤔

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Carolina has a bunch of cap space next season, but trying to re-sign Rantanen and Orlov while replacing Brent Burns could use up a lot of it. They'll need to sign a 2nd goalie and several depth forwards as well.

Carolina has also been marinating prospects all over the place. They've got a couple of real good ones in the K. They've also got a defenseman waiting for an opening. I think they're going young and will have space to put Rantanen's deal. Since he and Aho are close, I'd say he's staying. 

Their centers are Aho, Staal, Kotkaniemi and a 4th guy. I think a #2 center is needed. They may have one of those stashed away in the A somewhere, or are planning to get one in free agency. 

Goaltending is an issue, and I'd suggest it's not a #2 but a #1 that they need. Waddell never really cared about the position and filled it adequately. I think an above average 'tender with their structure would thrive. To me, I think Orlov and Burns are gone.

[mnfaninnc]

26 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

shit I wonder if we could have sent them boldy for him? 🤔

We would have had to use the same 3rd party channels to get the cap number down. Not sure how they see Boldy. I think Shooter is much fonder of Boldy than Tulsky and Waddell were of Necas. 

I would rather keep what we've got and add Tuch than sell what we've got to add Rantanen. Just personal opinion as I see a lot of growth room in Boldy still. I agree he's not there yet at this snapshot, but believe he's trending that way. He's just in a temporary plateau right now. But, Boldy is doing better than last season (more physical and north-south play).

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

We would have had to use the same 3rd party channels to get the cap number down. Not sure how they see Boldy. I think Shooter is much fonder of Boldy than Tulsky and Waddell were of Necas. 

I would rather keep what we've got and add Tuch than sell what we've got to add Rantanen. Just personal opinion as I see a lot of growth room in Boldy still. I agree he's not there yet at this snapshot, but believe he's trending that way. He's just in a temporary plateau right now. But, Boldy is doing better than last season (more physical and north-south play).

keeping Boldy and adding Tuch (while sacrificing none of the core) is good. but keeping Boldy and adding Nelson is another story.....i think reality - Tuch is likely not in the cards, and we get Nelson....

Boldy plus Nelson would get about the same $ per year as Ranty .... does the impact from that combo trump that from one Ranty? I'd go with Ranty. 

 

Edited Saturday at 09:21 PM by OldDutchChip

[Quebec1648]

The Wild should prioritize a player who is worth the money, rather than spending big bucks on a player in decline. I am in favor of making a trade for Elias Petterson, as he fills multiple needs. The Wild should also move on from Spurgeon and Merrill. The Wild should use the Spurgeon cap space to afford Petterson, while still having cap room to sign a free agent winger as part of Leopolds Christmas in July spending.

Line 1 - Petterson, Kaprizov, Yurov

Line 2 - Rossi, Boldy, free agent signing

Line 3 - Ek, Ohgren, Foligno

Line 4 - Stramel, Zuccarello, other prospect

D1 - Faber, Buium

D2 - Brodin, Middleton

D3 - Jiricik, Chisholm

G1 - Gus Bus

G2 - Wallstedt

Bench - budget contracts

[mnfaninnc]

16 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

The Wild should also move on from Spurgeon and Merrill. The Wild should use the Spurgeon cap space to afford Petterson, while still having cap room to sign a free agent winger as part of Leopolds Christmas in July spending.

This is a good statement and probably something we should hope for from our perspective, but it is completely from our perspective. Who would we pawn off Spurgy with? Well, that's a different question. Merrill drops off after the season. 

I, also, would like to get someone dynamic like Pettersson, and think he'd fit in very well with this team. However, the problem this team has is they've got grit in the bottom 6 and skill in the top 6, and they don't intersect. What is needed is grit and skill up and down the lineup, and for that we need....NEED....skill guys with grit. This is the main reason for targeting Tuch. This is why ODC recommends Miller. This is why a few of us have targeted Tkachuk. Those guys bring the grit and skill in the top 6, and the grit + skill is what is needed. 

One problem our bottom 6 has: Actually catching the skill guys on the other team. For Foligno, Trenin, Hartman, they line a guy up and just as quickly he moves the puck and they are too far away for the finishing crunch. Guys like Lauko are invaluable because they can actually catch the skill guys. So can Ek, who is our only gritty top 6er. Boldy should be one, but just isn't there yet, and he can go finesse at the drop of a hat. 

Zuccarello showed a bit of grit last night taking Andersson to the ice. Maybe feeding him a diet focused on spinach would help here? This is a roster construction issue that needs to be fixed. Tuch can help, but I think we need 2 guys there. The Wildcard here is we don't really know how much Yurov has grown and how gritty he is. He could be that 2nd piece. So, you could actually have a top 6 next season looking like:

• Boldy-Ek-Kaprizov
• Yurov-Rossi-Tuch

You could mix and match them through the year. For me, Tuch is the must. Look at that top 6, it's way out of balance with LHS. Tuch adds at least 1 RHS, speed, size, meanness, that is not currently there. 

Some may ask, what happened to Zuccy? Well, you'd intermix him in here too, but keep him down to 4th line minutes (not 4th line talent). Based upon the previous 2 seasons, Zuccy would be in there because one of these guys will often be out of the lineup. Zuccy as the 7th top 6 is a nice thing to have. 

This is just the forwards. I think our defense will be excellent with or without Spurgeon. However, finding a fit for him elsewhere may be too much of a challenge to complete.