Article: Wild Call Out Connor McDavid For Dirty Play

[Aceman]

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

There are deterrents, for instance, early in his career Tom Wilson played top line....in the playoffs. At the time he was a 4th liner. Nobody wants to face a Tkachuk. It's not always in the hits or fighting majors, sometimes it's in the coincidental 2 minute roughing after the whistle calls where a Tkachuk certainly got the better of the opponent and the other guy got 2 minutes for being roughed. 

Retaliation and counter retaliation: Perhaps this is the problem. Why are we forced into retaliation? Why aren't we bringing the hurt to begin with....especially at home? Asking someone to fight? Why does there always need to be asking? Sometimes you start raining punches and make them defend themselves. If it's a star, you usually get a 3rd man in. 

Roster construction: If this happens and another team retaliates against Kaprizov, which other guy defends him? Rossi or Zuccy? Or does that fall on the defense? This is a problem. Ek will get into scrums but he doesn't fight. He'll hit people hard, too. So, that's one guy in the top 6. 

Or, maybe, it's not roster construction but line construction? Maybe come playoff time it should be Hartsy with Rossi and Kaprizov, Foligno with Boldy and Ek? Maybe we get more production out of Trenin with Zuccy feeding him? Or, maybe it is roster construction because these guys are all we could get to fill roles with the restrictions on us, and guys who can play top 6 and can take the body are out of our price range? 

What will change when Yurov and Ohgren arrive? Are they tough or small? More importantly, are they willing to deliver 5 crosschecks on a guy because they can and are mean enough to do so? 

Really, this whole argument isn't about fighting or hits, this whole argument is about playing mean or playing nice. We have very little mean in our lineup. Truthfully, everyone but Ek looks like they've had vasectomies. Sure anyone can get pissed off, but nobody but Ek consistently plays a hard game. Yes, that includes Foligno and Trenin. Their hard game is part time only. Do you know what the lineup majors in? Debate club. They whine and complain all the time instead of doing something about it. They don't ever say, "so that's how we're going to play it," and change their actions. 

Sometimes, you simply have to lose your mind and go full scorched earth embarrassing referees. I don't know if anyone on this team is willing to go that far. Crazy eyes Maroon could have. 

This is why I'm excited for Zeev either this year or next. Some size to compliment a few smaller guys. But in the now, we use Jon Merrill as an ICBM and straight launch him at the best players.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Does no one on here remember Trenin leaping over Spurge (cool to see but dangerous AF) to pound L'Hureaux who turtled? He landed some solid shots.

What good would it have done to go after someone else in that game? We'll see if anything carries over for Saturday.

Was our beef with L'Hureaux or was it with the Preds? I would say the latter would be the answer. How physical did we get with their top line or with their top pairing D? How hard were we to play against the rest of the night? 

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

What about the avs? Who's their agent of fear?

Well let's see .... when Avs won the Cup they had - 

• Kadri, Landeskog are dogs
• Nichushkin, Rantanen and Burakovsky are all 6'4'' 210+
• McKinnon is the skill

Who in our lineup fits the above?

• Zuccy, Rossi are dogs?
• Ek and Boldy are our sizable players....one is a punching bag and the other is a figure skating showman
• Kaprizov is the skill and gets brutally assaulted
• MJ is already taken out

Don’t forget about t-bag skating 10 feet behind the play holding his stick out to intercept the phantom pass.  Zero fights and zero slobber knocker hits.  What would you say you do here bro.   I know he’s been better blah blah.  

[FredJohnson]

9 hours ago, Protec said:

I think it's funny how weak of an elbow it was to take NoJo down so hard.

First, I am in no way happy that anyone gets hurt. Let's get that straight.

BUT...sometimes violence prevents (discourages) more violence in the future.

BUT BUT...I'm not going to miss NoJo.

[M_Nels]

16 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Was our beef with L'Hureaux or was it with the Preds? I would say the latter would be the answer. How physical did we get with their top line or with their top pairing D? How hard were we to play against the rest of the night? 

Well you’re contradicting yourself here. You want the Wild to take liberties on the players that cheap shot our players which Trenin did and now suddenly that’s not enough. We won that game so we must’ve been pretty damn hard to play against. 
 

What good would it have done to target their top guys at that point?

[FredJohnson]

Root cause analysis lead me to this fact: The NHL refs suck a$$ and the Department of Player Safety are protecting them.

[mnfaninnc]

29 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Well you’re contradicting yourself here. You want the Wild to take liberties on the players that cheap shot our players which Trenin did and now suddenly that’s not enough.

I think you've misunderstood my position. It has been for a long time to impose retribution against the team on the front of the jersey, not necessarily the name on the back. For instance, in this game, how hard of a game was it for Roman Josi? Skjei was a major part of their offense all game, was it hard for him?

Yes, Trenin went after L'Hureaux, but who cares about that guy who just got suspended. You're far better off (with the last change) running Forsberg or Josi into the corner. 

I'm also not saying that retribution must be delivered with a fight. Retribution can be given with several heavy hits in the next 3 shifts that leaves carnage everywhere. 

When I mention the Staal incident, nothing happened. And that has been the theme with this team. At least Hartsy stood up for Rossi by reverse hitting Ehlers and pretty much finishing his season. 

From what I've seen of Jiricek, things may change with him in the lineup. Dumba was good at taking out middleweights in the open ice hits too, but he took on a heavyweight and wrecked his shoulder. Steamrolling a couple of top 6ers definitely sends a message.

[raithis]

8 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Yes, Trenin went after L'Hureaux, but who cares about that guy who just got suspended. You're far better off (with the last change) running Forsberg or Josi into the corner. 

I'm also not saying that retribution must be delivered with a fight. Retribution can be given with several heavy hits in the next 3 shifts that leaves carnage everywhere. 

There was a lot more hitting from the Wild for the entire remainder of that game, especially from Trenin.

[OldDutchChip]

the point is not to have 4th liners running around and picking fights with other 4th liners. the point is that you have a balance on your top 6 to deter that kind of a behavior from happening and if it does - to have an immediate response. 

when Avs had their run - they employed Kadri and Landy, both of whom could engage with opponent; not to mention that half their top 6 was 6'4 and 210lbs. 

who on our team gives us that? No one. 

will our incoming prospects do that? No (Yurov and Ohgren are not known to be that)

if there is that person out there on the trade block - should we go for it? hmm YES

While not the top choice, Tuch is still an improvement and would bring some balance to the top 6 lines and may have a positive impact on Boldy in terms of feisty play and keeping up the physical aspect of the game. 

[M_Nels]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think you've misunderstood my position. It has been for a long time to impose retribution against the team on the front of the jersey, not necessarily the name on the back. For instance, in this game, how hard of a game was it for Roman Josi? Skjei was a major part of their offense all game, was it hard for him?

Yes, Trenin went after L'Hureaux, but who cares about that guy who just got suspended. You're far better off (with the last change) running Forsberg or Josi into the corner. 

I'm also not saying that retribution must be delivered with a fight. Retribution can be given with several heavy hits in the next 3 shifts that leaves carnage everywhere. 

Again, what good would it have done besides a penalty and possible suspension or fine? The dirty hit was addressed and the intensity for both teams ratcheted up with Trenin especially juiced up and no other cheap, dirty BS going on.

Not like Josi, Skjei, Stamkos or anyone else on the Preds were out there gooning it up and gunning for someone after L'Hureaux's hit. 

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Again, what good would it have done besides a penalty and possible suspension or fine? The dirty hit was addressed and the intensity for both teams ratcheted up with Trenin especially juiced up and no other cheap, dirty BS going on.

Not like Josi, Skjei, Stamkos or anyone else on the Preds were out there gooning it up and gunning for someone after L'Hureaux's hit. 

What good does it do? it protects your superstar and skilled players

[M_Nels]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

What good does it do? it protects your superstar and skilled players

Nobody else got cheapshotted that game so what Trenin did must've worked huh?

So we need to start running someone every single game? The Preds and Oilers were different teams last I checked.

[OldDutchChip]

28 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Nobody else got cheapshotted that game so what Trenin did must've worked huh?

So we need to start running someone every single game? The Preds and Oilers were different teams last I checked.

oh right Wild are perfectly healthy this year. and wait until Playoffs - team will ease up even more! in fact it will be gentleman on ice kinda of a deal. 

Preds? Oilers? what difference? I gave you reality - you win WITH balancing your top 6. you cannot have finesse 1-6 and survive. Kap found that out when Suter and Stanley took it to him. Now he is injured. Our captain is taken out. Another top 6 is concussed. What else do you want? 

[M_Nels]

10 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

oh right Wild are perfectly healthy this year. and wait until Playoffs - team will ease up even more! in fact it will be gentleman on ice kinda of a deal. 

Preds? Oilers? what difference? I gave you reality - you win WITH balancing your top 6. you cannot have finesse 1-6 and survive. Kap found that out when Suter and Stanley took it to him. Now he is injured. Our captain is taken out. Another top 6 is concussed. What else do you want? 

I'm not even talking about that, I'm strictly addressing the cheap shots by those teams, may as well throw the Blues in there too.

You guys are talking about a deterrent for cheap shots. If we want to deter the entire league then I guess we need to start running every team. Newsflash: the Wild aren't the only team that get cheap shotted...

Edited January 17 by M_Nels

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

I'm not even talking about that, I'm strictly addressing the cheap shots by those teams, may as well throw the Blues in there too.

You guys are talking about a deterrent for cheap shots. If we want to deter the entire league then I guess we need to start running every team. Newsflash: the Wild aren't the only team that get cheap shotted...

McDavid took out MJ - this was a top 6 player vs top 6 player. If MJ has the support of ..... let's say a Tkachuk or Stone or Landeskog or Tuch - i'd argue that McDavid would have thought twice about doing what he did. You create on-ice awareness from opposition so that such acts are removed at the core, or kept to a minimum. There was no fear or even care on McDavid's face that someone would retaliate. That shows how soft we are viewed in our top 6. 

[M_Nels]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

McDavid took out MJ - this was a top 6 player vs top 6 player. If MJ has the support of ..... let's say a Tkachuk or Stone or Landeskog or Tuch - i'd argue that McDavid would have thought twice about doing what he did. You create on-ice awareness from opposition so that such acts are removed at the core, or kept to a minimum. There was no fear or even care on McDavid's face that someone would retaliate. That shows how soft we are viewed in our top 6. 

Newsflash: McD has been suspended before and none were against the Wild so the other teams must be soft too.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Newsflash: McD has been suspended before and none were against the Wild so the other teams must be soft too.

fine. Rossi can wear garlic to protect himself - and don't complain here when Rossi does get injured this year about the offender, shit happens, right

[M_Nels]

2 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

fine. Rossi can wear garlic to protect himself - and don't complain here when Rossi does get injured this year about the offender, shit happens, right

Works for me as long as nobody on here complains about Moose, Trenin, Bogo, Jiri, Hartman, Mids, Ek or hell even Zucc for getting suspended if they take a shot at someone.

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Works for me as long as nobody on here complains about Moose, Trenin, Bogo, Jiri, Hartman, Mids, Ek or hell even Zucc for getting suspended if they take a shot at someone.

because that is what i was saying - that zuccy and our 3rd/4th line got to protect and police on the ice. got it. 

 

[Pewterschmidt]

13 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

Works for me as long as nobody on here complains about Moose, Trenin, Bogo, Jiri, Hartman, Mids, Ek or hell even Zucc for getting suspended if they take a shot at someone.

I think this is why we haven't seen much of Jump Punch Foligno or Trenin on Tilt this year.  I think Hynzy has really stressed not taking dumb penalties in the name of disciplined hockey AND because the PK is our achilles heal.

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Again, what good would it have done besides a penalty and possible suspension or fine? The dirty hit was addressed and the intensity for both teams ratcheted up with Trenin especially juiced up and no other cheap, dirty BS going on.

Not like Josi, Skjei, Stamkos or anyone else on the Preds were out there gooning it up and gunning for someone after L'Hureaux's hit. 

Nobody cares if Josi, Skjei, Stamkos were gooning it up, they have a Predator on the front of their jersey. Here is the point that you're missing: Josi, Skjei, Stamkos pay for L'Hureaux's sins. That's it, in a nutshell.

When Hartsy reverse hit Ehlers, he paid for who I believe was Adam Lowry's sins and possible Logan Stanley's. The point isn't I'll fight the SOB who did it, the point is that if you go after my important player, there's a good chance your best player does not finish the game on the ice. An exploding elbow on a guy like Stamkos or Josi would have an immediate impact. Yes, you lose a guy due to suspension, and you bring up a Gaunce or Crotty who are capable of doing the same thing. 

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, M_Nels said:

Nobody else got cheapshotted that game so what Trenin did must've worked huh?

So we need to start running someone every single game? The Preds and Oilers were different teams last I checked.

For the short term yes, until our reputation changes. Once our reputation changes, that we are willing to do what it takes, the cheap shots will subside from the league. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, M_Nels said:

You guys are talking about a deterrent for cheap shots. If we want to deter the entire league then I guess we need to start running every team. Newsflash: the Wild aren't the only team that get cheap shotted...

But wouldn't it be nice to take them off that list. This is not a game by game strategy long term, but it is short term because the narrative must change. That means for a short while we will need to consistently be willing to make a huge deal out of a little elbow to the jaw. Especially when this stuff goes uncalled.

You seem to be thinking game by game only. The long term effect of this is that we gain a reputation of not putting up with any crap and if you attack one you've attacked all. Everyone plays better knowing a teammate has their back, and other teams will take notice. They may test it, but you meet that with a greater response. 

 

[M_Nels]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

For the short term yes, until our reputation changes. Once our reputation changes, that we are willing to do what it takes, the cheap shots will subside from the league. 

This is a point I do not agree on whatsoever.

We don't need to go gooning it up every game just to prove a point and risking suspensions and penalties while we're still shorthanded, our PK is still bottom tier and we're in the thick of a Central race that is still up for grabs by 4 teams.

[mnfaninnc]

Just now, M_Nels said:

We don't need to go gooning it up every game just to prove a point and risking suspensions and penalties while we're still shorthanded, our PK is still bottom tier and we're in the thick of a Central race that is still up for grabs by 4 teams.

I would suggest that the banked points we've had gives us the liberty to defend ourselves. You do not get automatic suspensions for defending yourselves. Some actions are greater than 2 points, and especially greater when the game has already been decided (like Edmonton going up 5-3). 

The message that is sent is suspension/penalty or not, you're going to get yours, and you will not enjoy it.