Article: Is It OK If Matt Boldy Is Kevin Fiala 2.0?

[Tony Abbott]

View full article

[Citizen Strife]

We like to act like this is a one-person team.  Yes, Kaprizov is putting up "superstar" numbers, but that is a one in a million player in a one in a million scenario.

I continue to bring up the fact that only 50-75 players got 65-70 points last year.  It is telling that Boldy seems to work best with Ek while Kap can work with anyone (though admittedly, works in tandem with Zucc and Rossi really well).

I am not worried about Boldy.  What the Wild need are more around them.  Rossi elevated, Faber elevated, and Middleton sure as shit found a new gear.  

The real issue is the gulf between the 60-70 point players is more like 30-40 than 50-60.  The team focused solidly on defensive structure first, but need another 1-2 people to breakthrough or join the roster and stay even with the Boldy, Rossi, Ek, Faber, Zucc types.  That doesn't just "happen."

Mojo is gone after this season.  Someone (Yurov or a free agent) will take over.  They don't have the money nor LTIR space to make something crazy happen, even if we'd like them to.

 

 

 

 

[Patrick]

The Wild don't have 6 top 6 forwards.  Boldy, Kap, Ek, and Rossi are but Johanson and Zuccarello are not. (Yeah I know Zucc puts up points with Kap but he isn't top six without Kap. Maybe not even an NHL player anymore. If you don't believe me look at his stats without Kaprizov, they make Johanson look like a scoring machine) Once we fill out the top 6 Boldy's production will stabilize. He probably won't be a 50/50 guy (very few are) but 40/40 seems reasonable for him and that is great for us!

[Burnt Toast]

100% agree with Patick’s assessment. When BG dropped the 50/50 comment I was surprised. He usually slow rolls expectations on younger players. Think about this… if you consider that 28 is a good player’s peak age Boldy’s got another 5 years of development. 50/50? Boldy is on his way. 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

12 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Boldy, Kap, Ek, and Rossi are but Johanson and Zuccarello are not. (Yeah I know Zucc puts up points with Kap but he isn't top six without Kap. Maybe not even an NHL player anymore. If you don't believe me look at his stats without Kaprizov, they make Johanson look like a scoring machine)

You do realize that Zuccarello has 7 points in his last 4 games without Kaprizov, right?

If you can point to a time that Johansson has done that in the last 2 seasons, I'd be quite shocked. When healthy, Zuccarello is a top 6 forward. Most teams do not have 6 guys who are all 6' or taller and point per night guys. Zuccarello has the passing to help others score.

[M_Nels]

Boldy is a much more complete player than Fiala is/was. He is better along the walls and is a better back-checker and stick-checker. His shot isn't as lethal as Fiala's but it's still a damn good shot. Feels like he's been in the league for a long time now but he's only 22 and is on a good value contract.

The last few games he's going more north/south and using his big frame to make plays which is what he needs to do. That 1-on-3 that he hit the post on against Carolina was almost the best goal I've seen "live" he went 1-on-2 last night that almost resulted in a goal.

If anyone would rather have Fiala instead of Boldy it goes against the whole creed and obsession of having size. Fiala is only an inch taller than Rossi and about the same weight. He would "get killed in the Western playoffs too."

[Imyourhuckleberry]

18 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Once we fill out the top 6 Boldy's production will stabilize. He probably won't be a 50/50 guy (very few are) but 40/40 seems reasonable for him and that is great for us!

I do agree with this part. I don't think anyone anticipated a 50/50 season from Boldy this year. He still needs to mature his game a little. Guerin said he thought he could be capable of that in his career, but he's not there yet at 23.

Get him a strong winger on the other side and they'll both make each other better. He probably won't go straight from 30/40 to 50/50, but some 40/50 seasons would be really nice as a standard for a few years in his prime, and maybe 1 season his goals jump up to 50.

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

You do realize that Zuccarello has 7 points in his last 4 games without Kaprizov, right?

If you can point to a time that Johansson has done that in the last 2 seasons, I'd be quite shocked. When healthy, Zuccarello is a top 6 forward. Most teams do not have 6 guys who are all 6' or taller and point per night guys. Zuccarello has the passing to help others score.

Last year he had 7 points in 450ish minutes without Kaprizov while getting absolutely cratered in the defensive zone.  If my memory is right around 30 games.  I don't care about size and I'm happy he is back with Kap and producing but he was a 35 point guy 6 years ago.  He hasn't gotten better as he ages, Kaprizov has gotten better and Zucc has benefited.  This team will take a leap forward when they pair Kaprizov with a player who can actually make him better, not capitalize on the opportunity KK creates. (Credit to Zucc for doing it btw, I'm not a hater at all)

[Willy the poor boy]

1 hour ago, Patrick said:

The Wild don't have 6 top 6 forwards.  Boldy, Kap, Ek, and Rossi are but Johanson and Zuccarello are not. (Yeah I know Zucc puts up points with Kap but he isn't top six without Kap. Maybe not even an NHL player anymore. If you don't believe me look at his stats without Kaprizov, they make Johanson look like a scoring machine) Once we fill out the top 6 Boldy's production will stabilize. He probably won't be a 50/50 guy (very few are) but 40/40 seems reasonable for him and that is great for us!

I'm fairly certain Zucc has done well in Kaps absence... I\He's a top 6 guy in my book.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

14 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Last year he had 7 points in 450ish minutes without Kaprizov while getting absolutely cratered in the defensive zone.

I know he was pretty poor last year, which was why I indicated healthy. The NHL doesn't give many updates on how players are feeling. Just because they're on the ice doesn't always mean they are healthy enough to play their best hockey.

Middleton, Faber, Gaudreau, and Zuccarello all seemed to get pretty banged up last year, but just kept playing. There were probably some others, but those were the ones I could recall having some substantial drops in performance even if Faber was still playing at a pretty high level--he still had some drop playing through injury.

Boldy came back from injury to a shoulder last November as well, perhaps a bit early, which is where he had the biggest lull in his goal scoring performance. He did tally 6 assists in the next 10, but went 10 games without a goal upon his return.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

1 hour ago, M_Nels said:

Feels like he's been in the league for a long time now but he's only 22 and is on a good value contract.

Boldy played 2 years of college hockey before joining the Wild. He's still young and on a good contract, but this is his 4th NHL season and he turns 24 in April.

[Beast]

He needs to be better than that if this team ever has real Cup aspirations.

But, he’s a different player than Fiala.  He has the size/skill/speed to be a high-end, all-around power forward on both ends.  

I don’t know if it’s mental (effort), his line combinations, minor injuries, etc. but he just has to find the consistency.  That can take time.  As mentioned, he’s still very young.

That play he made the other night though….starting behind two defenders chasing a loose puck, out skating both of them, muscling his way between both, gaining control and protecting the puck in an awkward position, then nearly potting it shows what a force he can be.  If you can get that type of effort/play consistently, this is a borderline Cup contender right now (assuming full health).  They still need another piece to contend with the Jets, Avs, Vegas, etc, IMO….and I’m concerned about the sustainability of the goaltending….but they’re knocking on the door.

If he’s always yo-yoing between high-end play/effort and face on a milk carton (like Fiala used to do here), this team won’t make it far.  I’m not as concerned about the scoring droughts, that can be attributed to a number of other things (luck, linemates, etc.). He needs to perform in other areas and keep the large and consecutive minuses off the score sheet while still generating shots.  This team doesn’t win often when he’s only getting 1 or 2 shots.  In their last 7 losses he’s a -10, no games over even, and he’s had 3 or fewer shots in 5 of them.  Only 1 assist in those 7 games.  The two losses with more than 3 shots he’s a combined -5.  The last 3 wins, he has 13 shots at a +2 and 3 points.  With or without Kaprisov, when his line isn’t winning their matchups, the team loses.

[M_Nels]

35 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

Boldy played 2 years of college hockey before joining the Wild. He's still young and on a good contract, but this is his 4th NHL season and he turns 24 in April.

Whoops, I was trying to make him a year younger. Should've done a quick Google to get my facts straight as Mike Gundy would say.

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

I know he was pretty poor last year, which was why I indicated healthy. The NHL doesn't give many updates on how players are feeling. Just because they're on the ice doesn't always mean they are healthy enough to play their best hockey.

 

That's always something to consider.  But it's not a coincidence that Zuccs career production with KK is 50% higher than without KK.  Lots of guys signed great contracts after playing with Joe Thornton and never performed without him...

[Imyourhuckleberry]

42 minutes ago, Patrick said:

But it's not a coincidence that Zuccs career production with KK is 50% higher than without KK.  Lots of guys signed great contracts after playing with Joe Thornton and never performed without him...

I agree with that as well, but I think Zuccarello's passing makes him a top 6 guy. I'm not sure I would have even argued if you didn't compare him to Johansson.

If you think Johansson could score over 19 points every 20 games, as Zuccarello has done in the last 3 seasons(including and despite the rough stretch last year), simply by putting him with Kaprivoz, I think you're dreaming. Kaprizov makes everyone's job easier, but Johansson's lack of being a threat would hinder him.

Zuccarello has skill and offensive IQ that you can't easily teach/replace.

 

[Patrick]

6 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

If you think Johansson could score over 19 points every 20 games, as Zuccarello has 

He did have 18 points in 20 games playing with Boldy in the spring of 23...😂😂  But yeah, I agree with your assessment.  Nice chat!

[Imyourhuckleberry]

12 minutes ago, Patrick said:

He did have 18 points in 20 games playing with Boldy in the spring of 23

MoJo did have that nice run that nobody thought was sustainable. I actually thought he might be able to exceed 50 points playing with them again, but then he delivered 30 points in 78 games as a "top 6 winger".

Johansson has now played for the Wild in 4 seasons, averaging over 16 minutes per game, and tallied just 78 points across 174 games(36 points per 80 games pace, or .45 PPG).

If you remove that 20 game lightning in a bottle moment in time, it's just 60 points across 154 games(31 points per 80 games pace).

Zuccarello had 79 points in 70 games in his age 34 season(more points in 21-22 can Johansson has over 174 games with the Wild), and is over .8 points per game every season since Kaprizov's arrival.

Zuccarello played at a .72 PPG pace in the 6 seasons prior to joining the Wild, so there's no question that Kaprizov is directly related to his production jump, but he was at top 6 production prior. This season, there are currently only 100(barely above 3 per team) NHL forwards scoring above .71 PPG.

Throwing out last season due to health reasons, Zuccarello played 13 games without Kaprizov in 22-23, and has 6 games without him this year. In those 19 games, he's tallied 16 points, which is better than .8 points per game when Zuccarello is healthy and not playing with Kaprizov those 2 years combined.

I don't think that the Wild had anyone skilled and agile enough to play with Zuccarello in his 1st season with the Wild, other than Fiala(age 23), but the coaches didn't pair them up, likely due to defensive fears--they literally cannot be found on each other's scoring logs for that season despite both being top 4 in scoring and minutes among Wild forwards. Parise and Staal were 2 of their main guys and both were slowing down at age 35.

[Patrick]

52 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

MoJo did have that nice run that nobody thought was sustainable. I actually thought he might be able to exceed 50 points playing with them again, but then he delivered 30 points in 78 games as a "top 6 winger".

Johansson has now played for the Wild in 4 seasons, averaging over 16 minutes per game, and tallied just 78 points across 174 games(36 points per 80 games pace, or .45 PPG).

If you remove that 20 game lightning in a bottle moment in time, it's just 60 points across 154 games(31 points per 80 games pace).

Zuccarello had 79 points in 70 games in his age 34 season(more points in 21-22 can Johansson has over 174 games with the Wild), and is over .8 points per game every season since Kaprizov's arrival.

Zuccarello played at a .72 PPG pace in the 6 seasons prior to joining the Wild, so there's no question that Kaprizov is directly related to his production jump, but he was at top 6 production prior. This season, there are currently only 100(barely above 3 per team) NHL forwards scoring above .71 PPG.

Throwing out last season due to health reasons, Zuccarello played 13 games without Kaprizov in 22-23, and has 6 games without him this year. In those 19 games, he's tallied 16 points, which is better than .8 points per game when Zuccarello is healthy and not playing with Kaprizov those 2 years combined.

I don't think that the Wild had anyone skilled and agile enough to play with Zuccarello in his 1st season with the Wild, other than Fiala(age 23), but the coaches didn't pair them up, likely due to defensive fears--they literally cannot be found on each other's scoring logs for that season despite both being top 4 in scoring and minutes among Wild forwards. Parise and Staal were 2 of their main guys and both were slowing down at age 35.

I'm not arguing Mojo and Zuccarello are the same. Was Zucc hurt? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think you can just throw the largest sample size  away to make a point.  He is producing in his role but at 37 it's doubtful he can produce in any other role other than Robin to Kaprizovs Batman. 

[1Brotherbill]

9 hours ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

You do realize that Zuccarello has 7 points in his last 4 games without Kaprizov, right?

If you can point to a time that Johansson has done that in the last 2 seasons, I'd be quite shocked. When healthy, Zuccarello is a top 6 forward. Most teams do not have 6 guys who are all 6' or taller and point per night guys. Zuccarello has the passing to help others score.

I was about to say this.  Zuccarello is the type of player that wins Stanley Cups.  Not the star of the team but the person that does the intelligent plays that someone like Darren Pang will not shut up about. 

[1Brotherbill]

Boldy is still young (23).  He needs to figure out his consistent game soon however.  I can see him being a 50 50 guy if he finds the consistent game.  

If you look back at Marian Hossa's career.  He averaged 71 points a season for his career.  Was instrumental in Chicago winning cups.  Played 1300 games.  I see a lot of Marian in Boldy's game. 

Does that mean he will win Minnesota a Cup?  That is probably not going to happen the Wild still need another elite forward possibly at Center. 

That is why the Elias Petterson rumors are so appealing.  Kirill with Petterson and Boldy would be a very difficult line to keep off the score sheet.    

[FredJohnson]

Is It OK If Matt Boldy Is Kevin Fiala 2.0?

Fook yeah! But I think Boldy is more complete while being 5 years younger and on a lot cheaper contract than Fifi.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

3 hours ago, Patrick said:

Was Zucc hurt? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think you can just throw the largest sample size  away to make a point

He missed 13 games, so he was injured at some point last season. There was a lot that went wrong last year. I'm aware that Zuccarello struggled away from Kaprizov last season. I was just establishing that he has played like a top 6 player without Kaprizov in the past, and has in the seasons other than last year.

He was playing through something last year, but how has he played this year?

[Enforceror]

Zucc is a top 6 player. Forget the score sheet and watch what he does. The guy is still a talent and he's taking the new wave under his wing to make them better players. Despite his size, he's still the first one in on the scrum. If it were my choice, he'd retire here.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

Boldy is still really young and producing at a steady clip. I think Guerin's 50/50 comment was premature and setting expectations way too high but that is just me. I think the consistency will come with maturity, and he's not there yet. It is easy to get caught up in a lack of progression and forgot how young he actually is. He is no where near his peak years yet and we have him locked in on a great deal. This year when we lose Johansson and pick up some youth could be the key to Boldy taking a step forward. EEK is a great match for him, we just need a mean shot on that line to truly make it dangerous.

My biggest difference between Fiala and Boldy is the defensive responsibility and dedication that Boldy shows night in and night out. His point may fluctuate but at the very least he is responsible even when he has a night off the scoresheet. the same cannot be said about Fiala at all!

[mnfaninnc]

23 hours ago, M_Nels said:

If anyone would rather have Fiala instead of Boldy it goes against the whole creed and obsession of having size. Fiala is only an inch taller than Rossi and about the same weight. He would "get killed in the Western playoffs too."

Why not both? For Boldy to have a year like Fiala had to finish up here, he needs a young "Boldy" to be his wingman. I think that could be Yurov. I think that could be Tuch. A Boldy-Ek-Forsberg line looks lethal on paper. But, what can we afford? We had to LTIR Grapes just to get Jiricek here. This suggests that the coffers are empty.