Article: The Wild Must Pay Now, Worry Later With Marco Rossi

[OldDutchChip]

9 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

Remember we’re still $15M in dead cap $. Pretty sure at least one of the big contenders will get some LTIR $ shenanigans going which adds even more disparity. We’re playing well and always have a chance but we’re still a longshot at a deep run this year. No one wants to wait 5 years but I see this team definitely getting better over the next 3 years for sure. I’m all for adding one player at the trade deadline if it’s even possible with how little cap space we’ve accumulated. I’m not ready to hit the panic button yet. We’ve got Gus signed through next year, KK and hopefully some more ELC players on the way. The future has never been brighter . I’m willing to wait for it. I don’t want to experience what the Nashville fans are going through  in the rush to Win Now. 

Remember we’re still $15M in dead cap $ - nope done using it, said many times here that it matters WHO the cap hit is tied to. we tied it to fringe NHL players. should they still be on the team - would we be better? Is Parise = L1 star? Is Suter = top D? No. So let's not pretend that the money would bring us equivalent player value. No - it would bring us what we had - and that is Suter and Parise - and both are easily replaceable and have been by cheap Bogo and cheap MJ. There we have solved the Cap penalty excuse. The only  thing that we need to be mindful here is to NOT overspend on players that do NOT deserve it. Have we learnt that lesson? 

We’re playing well and always have a chance but we’re still a longshot at a deep run this year. No one wants to wait 5 years but I see this team definitely getting better over the next 3 years for sure. We waited 30 years, with constant delay. Our team is not guaranteed to be better next year. In fact it may take a step back with (a) additions of rookies who need time (b) our D being older (Spurge and Brodin especially) and (c) Goalie situation - MAF to Wally and what about Gus? can he continue this play? Additionally, the one important piece is Kaprizov - how will he take it if Wild are AGAIN satisfied with another "glad to be here" moment? 5 years of NO success and next year is bound to be the same should they stand pat and just welcome few more rookies (unproven, unreliable, but hyped up to be sure)? You think he'll sign on July? Giving up his ONE chance to pick the future where he'll spend his prime? or continue on to mentor these lines of never-ending prospects?

I’m all for adding one player at the trade deadline if it’s even possible with how little cap space we’ve accumulated. right that is my suggestion to beef up the core top6

I’m not ready to hit the panic button yet. We’ve got Gus signed through next year, KK and hopefully some more ELC players on the way. The future has never been brighter The future has been "bright" before, when we picked up Pommy and created "Captain line", when we brought MN great Vanek, when we brought Finnish jesus over, when Zach Phillips scored 200 pts in lower league and we were giddy about him being a super steal from Sharks, when Guillaume Latendresse was brought in, when Nino was traded for Cal, when Wild brought in Suter and Parise, when Yeo lead the team, when another MN son Matty Cullen came  back, when Gabby scored 42 goals in 77 games.....but it went no where. Future has been bright before. We just haven't had the balls to take another step. Relying on Kap to be here and be our savior is very MN like. Do nothing and expect/hope the best turn out. Facts: Kap will be 28 after this year is done. He can sign an extension after this year is done. Unless we do something great THIS year, there is NO way Kap will sign with us. 

Nashville is not the right comparison. They went the old MN route. They brought in their version of Pomminville and Vanek and Heatley and Cullen to compliment their aging group. We have a group in or entering our prime.  And our pursuit of say ....Tuch - puts his timeline at exactly the same point as Kaps. That's a perfect alignment. Why wait? Why take the chance that same Kap signs elsewhere? Why waste such a good year? There is a way to improve and better your cause against Western Elite teams. Do that. 

[OldDutchChip]

3 hours ago, FredJohnson said:

That other teams beat us in the playoffs. Was it all Rossi's "fault"?

is Rossi your solution to prevent us from being bruised up? or will Zuccy be the enforcer? oh i forgot Kap has to be the enforcer! right. smart!

[FredJohnson]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

is Rossi your solution to prevent us from being bruised up? or will Zuccy be the enforcer? oh i forgot Kap has to be the enforcer! right. smart!

Then why are you always focused on Rossi? (Not just on this article's comments and I'm not the only one here questioning your focus on him)

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

Then why are you always focused on Rossi? (Not just on this article's comments and I'm not the only one here questioning your focus on him)

what is your fascination with Rossi? i already said he can move to L2C and be with Boldy and hopefully Tuch. i am saying he cannot be L1C with Zuccy and Kap. That's it. He is not a number one priority for the team....just maybe some obsessive fans. Go buy his poster already and put it on your wall and relax. 

[mnfaninnc]

22 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Nah - you don't pay him now - you have to see how he plays in the playoffs, can he handle the intensity and physicality. If its a Yes, and if that brings his value up, then that's fine - he'll get 8.5 either way. But first, see how he performs on the big stage. 

I am still 100% against having him as your L1C right now. He can play the Wing or be L2C but he won't be able to protect Kap and Zuccy. Yes, this has been a fine regular season. Regular season. Playoffs is different.

You wait until season ends. See how the team performs and how each individual performed BEFORE you buy in for the next 5-7 years. You need to plan this out carefully to ensure Kap signs this July. Don't tell me "Kap wants to win and Rossi is a winner and therefore they are a match made in heaven" No. Not yet. It hasn't been proven until it's done in the playoffs. 

Right now here are the knowns - he is an undersized skilled center and has a good stretch of games. Good for him and us. He has a very high trade value (stating the truth)

Unknowns - can we go to battle against the big boys with our tiny skilled line? Can we match up and come out alive and victorious against Jets or Avs or Stars? Or will Kap / Rossi / Zuccy get demolished and whimper again?

Play it out and after that - we do what's needed, but not now.

Suggestion - Move Rossi to L2C and really go hard after FF or Tuch at trade deadline, both of them should be available. That evens out our first two lines pretty well. EK ZUCCY KAP. ROSSI BOLDY FF/TUCH.

I have to disagree with waiting here. How will Rossi perform in the playoffs? Yes, it's unknown, but, it still won't be known after this playoffs either. I like the idea of a Boldy-Rossi-Tuch/Forsberg line. Rossi has some muscle to go on that frame, he does get knocked down, but keeps getting up quickly. 

I understand that need for larger players, but the Wild can afford some smaller ones. 5'9" 195 is short not small. I think at this point, I'd like for him to get on the Ogzy squat program and put another 5 pounds in the butt (just for Pewter). 

But, I've been waiting until late January/early February for and extension. I think Shooter wanted at least another half season of Rossi doing it before he agreed. I don't know how long these things need to be talked out, but if Rossi is committed to the organization, I could see an extension worked out quickly here. I'm not really concerned about an offersheet, as an offersheet can be matched and we have money.

If there is a problem with protecting Kaprizov, it doesn't fall on Rossi. Zuccarello is the small guy on that line and is old. I think that's the guy who gets taken out, and we have one more year with him. Khus is another small guy, and he plays above his weight class. I think he's a keeper, and he needs to go to the shot doctor during the summer. Spurgeon is the other small guy who's also old. He's also one who gets taken out of the lineup. With those 2 smaller, older guys gone, suddenly this roster becomes much larger (not necessarily taller). I think this could work. 

I do think we can get through Jets/Stars/Avs with Rossi. He just needs guys to have his back, and that likely falls on Midsy an Bogsy. NO MORE FREE SHOTS LIKE MORRISSEY TOOK ON STAAL. Dallas has some size, but they don't really use it. Avs got size and speed, but I think Rossi can do just fine. 

So, I'm on board with an extension. My gut says bridge, unless a nice longterm number comes for the team. While we may pay more than we could have over the summer, Shooter likes a fair deal for the player, and I don't think he minds paying a guy what he's worth. However, I would caution against having designations attached.

[FredJohnson]

52 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

what is your fascination with Rossi?

That's exactly my question to you. Granted, this article is about Rossi but your fixation on his size is borderline disturbing.

[M_Nels]

RE: Chisholm since I've seen him mentioned a few times on this thread.

As good as he's looked this year I'm thinking he's going to be used as bait. Don't see him staying as a 7th D with Buium coming over and likely starting once college season is over and Mids & Brodin also manning the left side. This is somewhat contingent on how Jiri looks and if Spurge can stay healthy, could see Bogo being the 7th D while he's still signed.

[mnfaninnc]

17 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

that also makes MJ the sacrificial lamb..... win win - let's say its Tuch - he slides into MJ's spot! and makes a very solid second line!

With all the player movement between sabres and wild over the last few years - why not one more? get em MJ and bring Tuch back. They are not going anywhere, some picks and "rebuild" and MJ is what they need to sell to their fans. 

MJ is not loved in Buffalo, that's where we originally got him from. I could see it being a cap dump, but it also might be better to tell MJ with his NTC, waive or waivers. 

I do like the Lauko-Khus-Johansson line idea. I said it before, but this is what Chicago did their first cup run. That speed could catch other 4th lines flat footed.

[FredJohnson]

7 minutes ago, M_Nels said:

RE: Chisholm since I've seen him mentioned a few times on this thread.

As good as he's looked this year I'm thinking he's going to be used as bait. Don't see him staying as a 7th D with Buium coming over and likely starting once college season is over and Mids & Brodin also manning the left side. This is somewhat contingent on how Jiri looks and if Spurge can stay healthy, could see Bogo being the 7th D while he's still signed.

He very well could be...good call. 

Left d-men on the roster right now: Brodin, Chisholm, Merril, Lambos, Spurgeon

Right d-men: Faber, Bogosian, Dermott and Middleton

[OldDutchChip]

30 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

That's exactly my question to you. Granted, this article is about Rossi but your fixation on his size is borderline disturbing.

be disturbed. 

[mnfaninnc]

16 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

i think Tuch is doable. he has a very team friendly contract. lets say Sabres retain half this year and we send MJ and unload some picks (anyone but Yurov/Zeev). There is a way to do it. Just takes a good cap guy. Good thing we have one!  ....

I'm pretty sure that Buffalo could flip Johansson, but that NTC might make them nervous. What if we sent Johansson to the Capitals for a pick and included that pick + maybe Heidt and another pick for Tuch 50% retained?

Johansson has always played well for the Caps, and they are down Backstrom, Oshie and Milano. They're way over budget, but still have LTIR room to add. At $2m, Johansson could be seen as an affordable upgrade. It also might be one of the only teams he'd waive for.

[OldDutchChip]

41 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I have to disagree with waiting here. How will Rossi perform in the playoffs? Yes, it's unknown, but, it still won't be known after this playoffs either. I like the idea of a Boldy-Rossi-Tuch/Forsberg line. Rossi has some muscle to go on that frame, he does get knocked down, but keeps getting up quickly. 

I understand that need for larger players, but the Wild can afford some smaller ones. 5'9" 195 is short not small. I think at this point, I'd like for him to get on the Ogzy squat program and put another 5 pounds in the butt (just for Pewter). 

But, I've been waiting until late January/early February for and extension. I think Shooter wanted at least another half season of Rossi doing it before he agreed. I don't know how long these things need to be talked out, but if Rossi is committed to the organization, I could see an extension worked out quickly here. I'm not really concerned about an offersheet, as an offersheet can be matched and we have money.

If there is a problem with protecting Kaprizov, it doesn't fall on Rossi. Zuccarello is the small guy on that line and is old. I think that's the guy who gets taken out, and we have one more year with him. Khus is another small guy, and he plays above his weight class. I think he's a keeper, and he needs to go to the shot doctor during the summer. Spurgeon is the other small guy who's also old. He's also one who gets taken out of the lineup. With those 2 smaller, older guys gone, suddenly this roster becomes much larger (not necessarily taller). I think this could work. 

I do think we can get through Jets/Stars/Avs with Rossi. He just needs guys to have his back, and that likely falls on Midsy an Bogsy. NO MORE FREE SHOTS LIKE MORRISSEY TOOK ON STAAL. Dallas has some size, but they don't really use it. Avs got size and speed, but I think Rossi can do just fine. 

So, I'm on board with an extension. My gut says bridge, unless a nice longterm number comes for the team. While we may pay more than we could have over the summer, Shooter likes a fair deal for the player, and I don't think he minds paying a guy what he's worth. However, I would caution against having designations attached.

how many games are we winning against Stars/Jets/Avs in round 1 with this lineup?

Rossi Zuccy Kap / Ek Boldy MJ

No more free shots!! yeap that's the motto of all Wild players and fans. Every year it's our star players being brutalized. What do we do? We bring in and rely on 3/4th liners that scare nobody and only hurt the outcome (see Foligno last time). None of our big boys play with Kap. No one cares about 40 year old Bogo, who will be playing 5-7 mins per game. Imagine Zuccy or Rossi going to the net in a playoff game against our foes? How many periods will we have our top line intact? Do we say then Kap go out and protect yourself? Or put it all on Midds to be out there? 

Bottom line - make moves that help you secure Kap - and that means playoff success and him being alive after them. Forget about baby austrian for a second. He'll get his contract if he performs. Zuccy won't be moved to other line. Him and Kap are a pair. They get Ek. Rossi moves down and plays with figure skater and Tuch.

[OldDutchChip]

12 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

MJ is not loved in Buffalo, that's where we originally got him from. I could see it being a cap dump, but it also might be better to tell MJ with his NTC, waive or waivers. 

I do like the Lauko-Khus-Johansson line idea. I said it before, but this is what Chicago did their first cup run. That speed could catch other 4th lines flat footed.

loved or not is irrelevant. they would be getting him only as a temporary $ filler. the move is for future. 

[mnfaninnc]

16 hours ago, MacGyver said:

I don't know if even Billy would be stupid enough to shake this team up now. Much less sending Rossi down the road regardless of the return. This team is rolling and beating some of the best teams in the league without our stud Rooskie and two of our best D men. 

Slicing and dicing on this team now would be very ill advised. Chemistry is a very fragile thing and this team has it right now in spades. You can replace players with others who tip the scales at twenty or thirty pounds of more muscle and much better stats but if you lose that chemistry ya got nothing. #Nashville

Typically the good teams will add at the deadline, I would be very selective of who I was adding, but sticking a guy like Tuch who, I believe will fit in fine with this team, in Johansson's spot would have to be welcome. Even though Johansson has played better, he's a poor fit for L2W. Tuch would be a scary fit, probably help the PP, and bring tenacity. 

[OldDutchChip]

4 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I'm pretty sure that Buffalo could flip Johansson, but that NTC might make them nervous. What if we sent Johansson to the Capitals for a pick and included that pick + maybe Heidt and another pick for Tuch 50% retained?

Johansson has always played well for the Caps, and they are down Backstrom, Oshie and Milano. They're way over budget, but still have LTIR room to add. At $2m, Johansson could be seen as an affordable upgrade. It also might be one of the only teams he'd waive for.

i guess as a third team....maybe? but Caps seemed to be set up good up top. how would MJ fit in? they seem to be set in top 6 🤔

[FredJohnson]

17 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

be disturbed. 

Be less obsessed with Rossi's size.

[FredJohnson]

9 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

how many games are we winning against Stars/Jets/Avs in round 1 with this lineup?

Rossi Zuccy Kap / Ek Boldy MJ

No more free shots!! yeap that's the motto of all Wild players and fans. Every year it's our star players being brutalized. What do we do? We bring in and rely on 3/4th liners that scare nobody and only hurt the outcome (see Foligno last time). None of our big boys play with Kap. No one cares about 40 year old Bogo, who will be playing 5-7 mins per game. Imagine Zuccy or Rossi going to the net in a playoff game against our foes? How many periods will we have our top line intact? Do we say then Kap go out and protect yourself? Or put it all on Midds to be out there? 

Bottom line - make moves that help you secure Kap - and that means playoff success and him being alive after them. Forget about baby austrian for a second. He'll get his contract if he performs. Zuccy won't be moved to other line. Him and Kap are a pair. They get Ek. Rossi moves down and plays with figure skater and Tuch.

Do you know if KK97 wants Rossi on the roster or not?

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

Do you know if KK97 wants Rossi on the roster or not?

Kiril wants to win. 

[mnfaninnc]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

what is your fascination with Rossi? i already said he can move to L2C and be with Boldy and hopefully Tuch. i am saying he cannot be L1C with Zuccy and Kap. That's it. He is not a number one priority for the team....just maybe some obsessive fans. Go buy his poster already and put it on your wall and relax. 

I have no problem adding Tuch, but I think the lines should be a bit more fluid than who's on line 1 & 2. I happen to really like a Boldy-Ek-Kaprizov line 1, and a Zuccarello-Rossi-Tuch line 2 could be alright. Or, you could go Zuccarello-Ek-Tuch, and do Boldy-Rossi-Kaprizov? Move them around for best chemistry and hope all stay healthy!

[mnfaninnc]

26 minutes ago, FredJohnson said:

Left d-men on the roster right now: Brodin, Chisholm, Merril, Lambos, Spurgeon

Right d-men: Faber, Bogosian, Dermott and Middleton

I think you might want to edit this

[mnfaninnc]

19 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Zuccy won't be moved to other line. Him and Kap are a pair.

Then this is an enormous problem. 

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I have no problem adding Tuch, but I think the lines should be a bit more fluid than who's on line 1 & 2. I happen to really like a Boldy-Ek-Kaprizov line 1, and a Zuccarello-Rossi-Tuch line 2 could be alright. Or, you could go Zuccarello-Ek-Tuch, and do Boldy-Rossi-Kaprizov? Move them around for best chemistry and hope all stay healthy!

Oh yeah, for sure. But there has to be an influx of physicality added to top 6. Tuch solves that. 

Learn2spell brought up an interesting candidate in Voronkov. He seems to be doing well. Would it be shocking if Billy makes a play for him and moves Rossi? I don't know if he'll rock the boat that much but....

 

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Then this is an enormous problem. 

right, but i agree with you on shuffling up the top 6, as long as MJ is replaced by someone with physicality/meanness. you cannot have ZERO meanness on your top 6 line (besides Zuccy and his stick). Boldy is there for smiles. Ek is there to be punched. Then we have Zuccy, MJ, Rossi and Kap. Yes. Reality. NO ONE IN TOP 6 that can deter aggression. 

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

The future has been "bright" before, when we picked up Pommy and created "Captain line", when we brought MN great Vanek, when we brought Finnish jesus over, when Zach Phillips scored 200 pts in lower league and we were giddy about him being a super steal from Sharks, when Guillaume Latendresse was brought in, when Nino was traded for Cal, when Wild brought in Suter and Parise, when Yeo lead the team, when another MN son Matty Cullen came  back, when Gabby scored 42 goals in 77 games.....

This has awoken so much trauma in this fan…I’m just thankful you didn’t mention setoguchi, Colton Gilles or Chuck kobasew…

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Pewterschmidt said:

This has awoken so much trauma in this fan…I’m just thankful you didn’t mention setoguchi, Colton Gilles or Chuck kobasew…

haha i also decided to leave Richard Park, James Sheppard and Casey Wellman off that list