Article: The Wild Are Still Trying To Break Into the Western Conference Elite

[Citizen Strife]

Please do remember that only 50-75 players got to 65-70 pts last year.  If Boldy at his worst is "Top 2-3 scorer on the team and Top 50 in the league," that's hardly the struggle think it is.

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

I’m all for this approach but not by dropping him down into a role he’s not designed and paid for. He’s a very young and developing player. I’m not surprised by his lack of production. It’s growing pains and the road to getting better. Stick with Boldy he’s going to rebound!!

i think it'll help Boldy out long term. play with players who take the north - south approach, get him back to basics somewhat - he has been too cute with the puck, simplify and reset. 

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

"Woe is me.  A 70-pt pace player is struggling.  That's the end of the world. GET TRENIN AND HARTMAN ON FIRST LINE!"

are you saying that he is doing fine and no biggie? he has 7 points in December. 13 games and 7 points and is -6. In the last 7 he has 2 assists and that's it. and even without stats his play is not good. so yes, you can reward those that are playing good and shuffle people around. that creates a good environment and drives results. what's the issue here? protecting boldy's innocence?  he cannot take time off, especially when kap is not playing.

[OldDutchChip]

14 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Please do remember that only 50-75 players got to 65-70 pts last year.  If Boldy at his worst is "Top 2-3 scorer on the team and Top 50 in the league," that's hardly the struggle think it is.

who cares what he did last year? he is struggling RIGHT NOW. i really dont see an issue with trying to get him to simplify his game with a more north south approach and similarly reward foli and trenin. 

[OldDutchChip]

28 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Thinking the Wild can topple Winnipeg, LA, and Dallas with a move or two?  LA has just as good a defensive structure, and proven star talent.  Winnipeg has a better goalie.  Dallas is a tough out even if they play like shit compared to last year.  You throw out a Rossi, a Faber, or godforbid a Boldy, you just have to replace them all over again.  It's way easier to replace a Zuccarello or Spurgeon who is aging out than people in their early-20s.

The Wild aren't blowing teams out.  You really want to blow a hole in the foundation that could run 3-5 years to get some guys who may leave in 20 games?  You do know that if the Wild don't keep their good players, other teams will gladly take them and use them better.  Tell me what team will take Hartman, Foligno, Trenin, etc off our hands just to get Rossi?  And for what players? I'd love you to tell me what team wants to take on Spurgeon's $7.5m for another season or two, or Brodin's $6m for 3-4 seasons.  Both are an injury or a couple years away from being ineffectual.  Brodin has already been an injury risk this season.

If Ottawa said Tkachuk is off the table BEFORE their winning streak, what sense would it make now they are back in the playoff race?  Tuch or Nelson would be easier gets, but I'm not about to throw away a 60-point player to make that happen.  Cause Rossi has 3-4 years on them to get just as good or better.

But excuse me for thinking cautiously.  I'd like NOT to go back to the post-Gaborik days in the dumpster, if that's all the same to you.

yes i think wild can topple western playoffs teams with the right move. and i think players think so and would welcome some help. they have a solid D. Vezina candidate goalie. and Kaprizov. but NO - let's continue to wait and look to the unknown future. that always sits well with current players that have been together and battled and have been doing great this year .... "fellas listen you are all not good and over achieved a bit (applause), it's been sure fun but now time to level set - we have these rookies that are going to come in and be good soon....some of you (looking at you Harty, Foligno, MJ) will be off the team next few years, so that will be good, and some will be replaced by our fancy rookies, so thank you in advance to all of you leaving, Oh yeah Kap - Zuccy will be gone but fear not - Brock will be here and you can bond with him. You have SOO much in common!! Kap don't forget to sign in July and enjoy early break, cause we are pulling back on this season .... winning is just not Wild way."

[mnfaninnc]

If the Wild are to climb into the elite of the conference, they will need contributions from their youth to do it. But, who really cares if they are considered elite? Especially in the regular season? 

I like flying under the radar until playoff time and knocking off an elite at that time. We did this in Colorado and St. Louis as an underdog. I like starting on the road and trying to win 1 of 2 games to start. 

However, internally, I think there is a blueprint to make this happen. Buium wins the National Championship again and signs late with the Wild. Yurov finishes his playoff run and comes over to sign late with the Wild. Jiricek learns to skate backwards and comes in around March to shore up the D corps. The Wall acclimates to N shooters. That's internal. Externally we could add at the deadline, but I think internally is the way to go. Let's see what we've got for the playoff run.

[OldDutchChip]

10 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

If the Wild are to climb into the elite of the conference, they will need contributions from their youth to do it. But, who really cares if they are considered elite? Especially in the regular season? 

I like flying under the radar until playoff time and knocking off an elite at that time. We did this in Colorado and St. Louis as an underdog. I like starting on the road and trying to win 1 of 2 games to start. 

However, internally, I think there is a blueprint to make this happen. Buium wins the National Championship again and signs late with the Wild. Yurov finishes his playoff run and comes over to sign late with the Wild. Jiricek learns to skate backwards and comes in around March to shore up the D corps. The Wall acclimates to N shooters. That's internal. Externally we could add at the deadline, but I think internally is the way to go. Let's see what we've got for the playoff run.

Wild will likely play Colorado or Dallas. Time to kick ass.

Who will help?

Internal upgrades are just not going to bring much this year. Perhaps Buium comes in and be used sparingly here and there on PP but the D core deserves the chance and Chissy deserves it and it would take a monstrous showing by Buium to supplant him.

Yurov's road will be even tougher and Billy won't kick vets to the side just because of a prospect arriving.

As for the other two - playoff time is not the right time to throw in a clumsy D prospect and a goalie who has lost his game somewhat. They may all be present but just as spectators. The games will be played by our vets, plus or minus 1-2 people. D and G are set. O is where the change will happen. Who is out and who is in remains to be seen. 

[mnfaninnc]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

As for the other two - playoff time is not the right time to throw in a clumsy D prospect and a goalie who has lost his game somewhat. They may all be present but just as spectators. The games will be played by our vets, plus or minus 1-2 people. D and G are set.

I'm not suggesting these guys show up just for the playoffs, though it will be close with Buium and Yurov. I see The Wall getting more callups and getting acclimated to the role of backup up tender, and I see Jirzy coming being ready around March, just after the TDL. That's not throwing them in right at playoff time. 

As for the role, I could see Jiricek coming in for an injury to either Spurgeon or Bogosian. You're right about Chisholm, he has earned a start at the 3rd pair. But absolutely no Merrill, he's too slow. Not sure if Ohgren will be ready, but certainly Yurov can play on a line with Lauko and Khus. Getting production from the 4th line would be awesome, and maybe some of Khus' subtle moves will pay off with someone being able to snipe?

Yes, I see the same little stuff you see with Khus, he's got some sneaky skill. That is why I put Johansson down with him and Lauko to make a line with speed. Chicago had that on their 1st cup run, and that 4th line dominated.

When we're looking at lines, though, we assume full health. That has not been the case the past 3 seasons going into the playoffs. So, likely a couple of vets may be out. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to sub in Yurov if a Zuccarello goes down? Wouldn't it be nice to throw in an Ohgren if a Hartman goes down?

[mnfaninnc]

23 hours ago, Jamesgang said:

Gaunce, Jones and Shore playing multiple games for the Wild demonstrate how terrible the Wild prospect pool really is and how pathetic the management in Iowa is at developing talent. This is the best three we could call up for multiple weeks? All the injuries provided a opportunity for the top prospects to shine in the NHL.

You're right and not so right here. Not all of our grade A prospects happen to be in Iowa. Instead of rushing up Jiricek, the Wild chose to pick Dermott off of waivers so that Jiricek can work on what he needs. Nobody really has eyes on Iowa, so getting to see them in person showed me that there was improvement. It's just that you usually don't count on guys to be ready until 22-23 years old. That is what it takes for lower half of the 1st round guys and beyond to develop properly unless we're talking about an unusually deep draft. I think '21 and '22 were both of those.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

from many and not getting fries with my meals for the kids has drove me a bit mad. not going to drive back for the fries but they are like 4 bucks each. and the idiots forgot pickles too and now i am hearing it from spoiled kids

Who forgets the fries!!!! I'd be pissed too, that's the reason you go to McDonald's. And pickles are a must (I sure hope it wasn't a Chick-Fil-A).

[mnfaninnc]

7 hours ago, Fezig said:

It seems if the pp and pk aren't working and you keep putting (mostly) the same lineups out your are exemplifying the definition of insanity. I don't know who to move but two complete line switches might open some eyes and get feet moving. If you can score five on five, then there is absolutely no reason you can't when up a man.

Neither is working, though, I think with the return of Ek and Trenin that may help some. But, on the PP, if you're so good at 5v5, why not just roll the lines for a little while? Seems like that would be at least as effective as a 17% PP and scrambling for the next line afterwards.

When Kaprizov gets back, though, the #1 unit will be back in place.

[Enforceror]

Does anyone actually watch Yurov play (I do not)? I know he had a great season last year. Yes, he started this season injured...but his stats this year are not inspiring. Yurov is currently #127 in the league at PPG. Nikita Grebyonkin was Yurov's teammate last year and put up similar numbers and has size as well. He was drafted by Maple Leafs and started in the NHL this year with 7 games. 0-0-0. Promptly down to AHL where he has very modest numbers. Ivan Morozov played one season in AHL and decided to go back to KHL. This seems to be a common trend as well. Players leave KHL, play AHL/NHL for a year or two then go back. Just not getting warm and fuzzies....

 

[mnfaninnc]

5 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Yes - so how does Kumpulainen and Stramel and Rossi and Zeev and Yurov help us? They are sacrificial lambs - they will not all be great and may not all even play. Again - 6 years of no PO success and continuous injection of youth and all that it brings vs trading that youth uncertainty towards the now to align with Kap's timeline......

I would suggest that no playoff success in 6 years would encourage turning it over to a younger, different group. Perhaps the reason there has been no playoff success is because the placeholders overperform in the regular season and are out of gas in the playoffs. Those should be the guys we trade off and sacrifice, keep the young, spry, skilled young guys with lots of energy...and cheaper contracts. 

That affords us to do something special in the trade/UFA market over the summer. Growing pains, I would imagine would come from Heidt, not really from Yurov. Several defenders have made the jump from College Hockey and never looked back, Buium appears to be one of those. Is he big enough? That would be my question.

The reason for marinating the kids so long is so when they do take over, they won't have as many growing pains, and will learn quicker. I'm ok with that. Give them a full season to figure it out and they should be ready by playoff time to contribute heavily. 

For those wondering, Metallurg has started to make its climb. Yurov didn't get any points lately, and interestingly he has no PP points. It's as if he's not even playing there. They are in 4th place in their conference but continue gaining, they've caught 3rd place but have played 3 more games.

[mnfaninnc]

4 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

are you saying that he is doing fine and no biggie? he has 7 points in December. 13 games and 7 points and is -6. In the last 7 he has 2 assists and that's it. and even without stats his play is not good. so yes, you can reward those that are playing good and shuffle people around. that creates a good environment and drives results. what's the issue here? protecting boldy's innocence?  he cannot take time off, especially when kap is not playing.

Yeah, but his PIMs are off the charts! 😉

[mnfaninnc]

20 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

Does anyone actually watch Yurov play (I do not)?

I'm not sure who carries the K over here. ESPN+ used to show games, but they stopped a couple years ago due to Ukraine/Russia. 

His stat line looks like he's helping the team win. He's a +9 with what looks like no PP time. While his goals look down, he is leading his team in shots. I'm not seeing a TOI list, so I don't know if he's being held back. 

His shooting percentage is 9.8 which is one of the lowest on the team for forwards, yet, he is 3rd in goals scored. His faceoff % is 48.7 and there's a lot of them, so he appears to be playing center. 

[mnfaninnc]

On Rossi, it doesn't appear as if he has arbitration rights this year. Will he have enough games for an offersheet, or is that off the table too?

[RedLake]

Rantanen trade rumors heating up. Go grab him Billy.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

I'm not suggesting these guys show up just for the playoffs, though it will be close with Buium and Yurov. I see The Wall getting more callups and getting acclimated to the role of backup up tender, and I see Jirzy coming being ready around March, just after the TDL. That's not throwing them in right at playoff time. 

As for the role, I could see Jiricek coming in for an injury to either Spurgeon or Bogosian. You're right about Chisholm, he has earned a start at the 3rd pair. But absolutely no Merrill, he's too slow. Not sure if Ohgren will be ready, but certainly Yurov can play on a line with Lauko and Khus. Getting production from the 4th line would be awesome, and maybe some of Khus' subtle moves will pay off with someone being able to snipe?

Yes, I see the same little stuff you see with Khus, he's got some sneaky skill. That is why I put Johansson down with him and Lauko to make a line with speed. Chicago had that on their 1st cup run, and that 4th line dominated.

When we're looking at lines, though, we assume full health. That has not been the case the past 3 seasons going into the playoffs. So, likely a couple of vets may be out. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to sub in Yurov if a Zuccarello goes down? Wouldn't it be nice to throw in an Ohgren if a Hartman goes down?

For this year, i think the Wild will look to external help, not from the prospects. Of course not "deal just to deal" but deal to increase their chances at success this year. Buium, Yurov, Jiricek, Wally, Ohgren, Heidt, all these prospects are unknown. 

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to sub in Yurov if a Zuccarello goes down? Wouldn't it be nice to throw in an Ohgren if a Hartman goes down? well it depends. if Kaprizov signs off for another 5 year run, and both Yurov and Ohgren deserve it - then yes. But if it's this year and Yurov arrives and Zuccy is injured and same for Harty - i say it's horrible timing. 

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Who forgets the fries!!!! I'd be pissed too, that's the reason you go to McDonald's. And pickles are a must (I sure hope it wasn't a Chick-Fil-A).

haha it was McDs. and i had to wait for them on the side, while other cars were passed, the finally bring it like 15 mins after and then at home i find out i am w/out fries!. and the cost!!! 2 meals 20 bucks. wow. priceless.....or dare i say - friesless! 

Edited December 31, 2024 by OldDutchChip

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

I would suggest that no playoff success in 6 years would encourage turning it over to a younger, different group. Perhaps the reason there has been no playoff success is because the placeholders overperform in the regular season and are out of gas in the playoffs. Those should be the guys we trade off and sacrifice, keep the young, spry, skilled young guys with lots of energy...and cheaper contracts. 

That affords us to do something special in the trade/UFA market over the summer. Growing pains, I would imagine would come from Heidt, not really from Yurov. Several defenders have made the jump from College Hockey and never looked back, Buium appears to be one of those. Is he big enough? That would be my question.

The reason for marinating the kids so long is so when they do take over, they won't have as many growing pains, and will learn quicker. I'm ok with that. Give them a full season to figure it out and they should be ready by playoff time to contribute heavily. 

For those wondering, Metallurg has started to make its climb. Yurov didn't get any points lately, and interestingly he has no PP points. It's as if he's not even playing there. They are in 4th place in their conference but continue gaining, they've caught 3rd place but have played 3 more games.

We either punt on the season and go with prospect growth (which i believe gets us out of Kap's timeline and he leaves) or we cash in on some of the prospects and push for the now. Think what kind of impact will it have on our vets and Kap should be bow out of the running this year and instead prioritize Buium, Yurov and Jiricek? After having such an excellent start to the season, goalie being in Vezina talk, Middsy playing like Chris Pronger, Kap playing like no one else in NHL.....we stop?  Kap needs to be rewarded! We can't say - Kap listen just play it out with this core and  we will replace them for new one and get you more youth .... no no no - he needs to win with his guys - Harty, Zuccy, Foligno. otherwise there is better youth in montreal (NO one is better in our prospect line than Demidov) or philly  (Mitchkov) if we push excellent youth - he might as well go with a better one.

What if Billy works something with Trotzy to get Filip? He is a bit older than Kap but is a hungry and still very skilled player - i bet its at least a discussion point given how Preds are doing? Hmm he is also in our division so....but regardless - you try and then Kap has 1.5 years and hopefully a good run this year to bond with the known player. 30 is a bit older than i'd like but an example of impact. Tier 2 player. Easing Boldy's role too a bit. 

 

[Citizen Strife]

Any discussion about "should they do something this year" just got made by some dickbag going after Spurgeon last night.  What a Bertuzzi level move, and Spurgeon is probably done for the season, or worse.  Thanks for nothing Nashville.  You signed a suspension heavy goof to play for you and hurt people.

We might see what if anything Jiricek has by force now...not the best situation.

Edited Wednesday at 11:29 AM by Citizen Strife

[MacGyver]

ODC should be happy as Rossi keeps driving up his trade value. It's going to reach the point soon where Billy is going to look silly trading him unless it's an absolute block buster deal. Is it possible the Rossi camp is not talking  yet holding out for more as he keeps playing well? Maybe making Billy sweat for allowing all the trade talk for the better part of a year. Hell maybe Rossi wants out. 

Ahh if that was the case Billy would be giving him the Fiala treatment by now and trashing him in the media. I think we have seen the last of Spurgeon this year and maybe beyond. That did not look good at all. I'll guess a busted leg.  

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:47 PM by MacGyver

[Up North Guy]

5 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Any discussion about "should they do something this year" just got made by some dickbag going after Spurgeon last night.  What a Bertuzzi level move, and Spurgeon is probably done for the season, or worse.  Thanks for nothing Nashville.  You signed a suspension heavy goof to play for you and hurt people.

We might see what if anything Jiricek has by force now...not the best situation.

The dirtbag had nine game misconducts in the Quebec league and even a suspension for sticking his stick between the glass panels trying to hit a kid in the stands. I can't imagine what Nashville expected from this a-hole. I expect better from Bruno.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

well it depends. if Kaprizov signs off for another 5 year run, and both Yurov and Ohgren deserve it - then yes. But if it's this year and Yurov arrives and Zuccy is injured and same for Harty - i say it's horrible timing. 

Kind of like Spurgeon's injury last night.

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

What if Billy works something with Trotzy to get Filip? He is a bit older than Kap but is a hungry and still very skilled player - i bet its at least a discussion point given how Preds are doing? Hmm he is also in our division so....but regardless - you try and then Kap has 1.5 years and hopefully a good run this year to bond with the known player. 30 is a bit older than i'd like but an example of impact. Tier 2 player. Easing Boldy's role too a bit. 

I could sign off on this. I think he could overperform his $8.5m salary for the next 5 years, especially with the cap increases. This helps the team this year and for the next 5. I'm not sure what the compensation would be, but Trotz has been on record looking for dynamic players. Heidt would be my dangle, and possibly pair him with Lambos. Heidt brings some dynamic offense with a little bite, and Lambos should be a steady blueliner for them. I think we also need to send some money their way depending on how the Spurgeon injury is. If Spurgy is out for about 4 months, which I could definitely see, that would be a nice replacement player for the LTIR. 

If more is needed, I'd be ok with sending a pick in this year's draft too, maybe in exchange for some retained $. If it's good enough, I'd be ok sending the 2nd.