Article: Guerin Built Minnesota's Roster With Three Timelines In Mind

[mnfaninnc]

6 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

My friend - let me ask you - what will happen should the Wild collapse or whimper out in the first round? What will Kap do? Patience? Process? No No No. You want to bet on the prospects to help entice Kap to stay?

Yes, I've been on record thinking he's not going anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pick up Tuch or B. Tkachuk, but to actually go for it this year, the timing just doesn't seem right to me. I don't think we can cover the cap hits and I don't think we'll get the real players we need with the lower cap. In other words, I think we'll give up way too much to get too little, mainly due to the cap constraints.

Now, that said, I am a long game player. I like having the new guys coming in and playing somewhat significant roles. Yes, I want the 10-12 year careers of the guys you'd want to throw away for short term success. I also like having multiple shots at the Cup instead of a very short window.

You said that The Wall was unplayable. I disagree. I thought he was on his angles pretty well both against Vegas and Winnipeg. But I thought that some of what was let in were plays that he shuts down with AHL talent and he needs to get up to speed with NHL level shooters. The one blown by his glove by Perfetti is a perfect example of that, it was an NHL shot where he's used to AHL shots.  

I expect that Yurov will come over and play really well. He may be a Calder candidate. I expect Buium to step right in like Faber did. I expect Jiricek to show it late this season when he finally is called up. And, I expect The Wall to be better with more NHL exposure. All these things take time, but also all of these guys should be making Kaprizov smile. He wants to lead the team to a Stanley Cup, but he needs legitimate younger guys to get that done. Will we be well over 100 points with these additions? I doubt it, I expect them to be a WC team. But I also expect them to be very improved from the beginning to the end of the season in 2025 and I expect them to knock off a number 1 seed. 

Conclusion is patience, not throwing this all away. The timing just isn't right for this season, but it is for next season.

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, Enforceror said:

Kap stays due to matched funds, a good locker room, and a desire to take his team to a cup (loyalty). Unless his GF wears the skates in the relationship, in which case Kap goes to the Caribbean League...

His GF is likely someone he listens to, as i think most normal people do, after being together for some time. Six years taking this team to the cup (glorious road indeed) .... may have been plenty for him and her. He stood firm on 5 years and did not budge. Five years and he is out. But maybe that good locker room and money is what he is after. So you mean locker room of soon-to-be 40 year old Zuccarello, MJ, inconsistent Boldy, mini Rossi, Freddy and Foligno, Harty and Ek and Gorgy and Wes and Audrey? They'll grow old/older together! Is that his vision you think? hmm I think you know the answer to that..

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Yes, I've been on record thinking he's not going anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pick up Tuch or B. Tkachuk, but to actually go for it this year, the timing just doesn't seem right to me. I don't think we can cover the cap hits and I don't think we'll get the real players we need with the lower cap. In other words, I think we'll give up way too much to get too little, mainly due to the cap constraints.

Now, that said, I am a long game player. I like having the new guys coming in and playing somewhat significant roles. Yes, I want the 10-12 year careers of the guys you'd want to throw away for short term success. I also like having multiple shots at the Cup instead of a very short window.

You said that The Wall was unplayable. I disagree. I thought he was on his angles pretty well both against Vegas and Winnipeg. But I thought that some of what was let in were plays that he shuts down with AHL talent and he needs to get up to speed with NHL level shooters. The one blown by his glove by Perfetti is a perfect example of that, it was an NHL shot where he's used to AHL shots.  

I expect that Yurov will come over and play really well. He may be a Calder candidate. I expect Buium to step right in like Faber did. I expect Jiricek to show it late this season when he finally is called up. And, I expect The Wall to be better with more NHL exposure. All these things take time, but also all of these guys should be making Kaprizov smile. He wants to lead the team to a Stanley Cup, but he needs legitimate younger guys to get that done. Will we be well over 100 points with these additions? I doubt it, I expect them to be a WC team. But I also expect them to be very improved from the beginning to the end of the season in 2025 and I expect them to knock off a number 1 seed. 

Conclusion is patience, not throwing this all away. The timing just isn't right for this season, but it is for next season.

There is no way he stays here with no clear vision! And it won't be with another round of unknown prospects coming thru. Not one of them are sure things. The timing is already late and we are still auditioning - same vets are playing because no one from AHL is kicking the door. The same adjustments will no doubt be needed by Yurov - and that will waste the last year of Kap. 

As for Wally - allowing on average 4 goals per game and saving at 850% clip is a bit unsettling for me. And even if he works out - that is NOT on Kap's timeline. We need Gus back and ship Wally as far away as possible so that he can continue develop. 

I expect that Yurov will come over and play really well. He may be a Calder candidate. A lot of people expected the same of Ohgren and that did not happen - which again help us very little. 

There is no patience. We have been building a cup for 30 years. Now we have lucked out with a superstar that called the time of his departure - and we are resuming our lemming walk to the promise land - not the time for us - let other grow balls and pluck out Tkachuks, Eichels, Stones, while we are going to wait until either our mid to late first round picks come in and play like top 3 (because that's what we are being told that they are becoming - draft steals!) or some friendly 30 and over Minnesota sons are ready to come back and finish their retirement tour here! 

Disgusting. Get Zeev, Rossi, Yurov, Ohgren, Height, Wally, even Boldy on the trade block and morph this team to Kap's image. EVERYONE but Kap are expandable. When that is clear - then we win. Other wise we go on pushing out these ridiculous 5 year plans - who in the last 30 years have NOT made it to the SC finals? us and blue jackets? aren't you pissed at that? 

[Citizen Strife]

Sure, expendable, but selling off everyone for short term gain is what Nashville did.  Tell me how THAT worked out.  Tell me how well Buffalo's tried morphing everything every five years to no success.  

Worrying about what Kaprizov will or won't do 6 months before because "lol, we lost a few games in a season we weren't expecting shit in anyway" just seems a little funny.

[Citizen Strife]

Just think what you're proposing anyway.  Everyone but Kap is expendable.  Ok.  So the Chicago approach.  They are barely any better in 3 seasons.  Buffalo's been through 3-4 different rebuilds already in like 5-10 years.  The Wild are barely on three in 20.

Say you get rid of everyone.  Say Guerin has 'no plan."  That is obviously not true, just because, "OH NO WE GOT INJURED WE SUCK FOR A FEW GAMES BLOW IT UP!"

Boldy/Faber: Locked in for 5-10 years as complementary pieces.  Boldy is a PPG, and Faber is a 50 pt guy in year 2.

Rossi: May or may not hit 60-70 pts in year 2 (30 pt increase).  At minimum, a top 50-75 point producer in the league, so a 1st-2nd line player: another comp piece.

Ek and Brodin: Injury prone yes, but defensive wonders on decent length contracts.

Gus: Vezina capable goalie, on a cheap as shit contract for another year.

 

They have ready made replacements at almost any position, with 2-3 higher end ones (Yurov/Zeev/Wallstedt) who are young as shit and can compensate any high prices to keep Rossi or Gus.  The Wild can afford to wait for that right guy IF they can get them, but only of the money is right.

Sorry the "timeline" doesn't work.  The Wild don't have endless funds or dance partners to trade "just yet."  For now, the team CAN compete, but only in a tightrope.  You're demanding success from a team that has a Drai or almost a Boldy/Faber duo's worth of money lost because the last rebuild went for shit.  Saying we should be pissed because we look like or have the same success as the Blue Jackets is frankly absurd.  The Blue Jackets are bad for lots of reasons, and some that was out of their control.

The Wild spent $98m locking up two players, but got diddly fucking squat and put Guerin in this situation to begin with.  Don't sit there and tell me to be pissed and blow away a decent recovery foundation job because we lost four fucking games.

Edited Monday at 06:46 AM by Citizen Strife

[Citizen Strife]

*Just woke up*

Sorry.  That part of the message was a bit much.  Rough night of sleep.

[MNCountryLife]

Wild have been thumped bad 4 of the last 7 games and lost 6 of the last 7 games.  Our PK is awful and a big reason for those losses.  This is the 3rd year of that being bad.  I don't believe this is a player problem.  This is a coaching problem.  Time for coaches to pull up the video and notebooks.  They need to study and learn how to do a PK.  It's more than just some lucky bounces after  2 years of this.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

On 12/20/2024 at 3:36 PM, Pewterschmidt said:

Prospect Inflation:

consider what Ogzy and Khuz have brought to the teams results this year.  Basically zilch.  Not a complaint, but it's fair to forecast they're going to contribute zilch to Wild winning Rd 1 this year. I guess I'm forecasting they'll contribute much the same next season (if you're contention is they'll move needles next year, I'd disagree with that too.).  Why would we then assume Yurov and Buium will move needle next year in their first NHL season's.  If Yurov = 97 2.0 AND Buium = Makar 2.0 then I could get on the same page, but I don't think that's the case.

That's why we need to add two grown-ass established NHL'rs to advance past first round next season.  Fred, Yurov, Bogo, Dermott, Shaw, BJ, and Gaunce just need to stay out of the way and not fuck it up while the top 6 needs to have career years (all six) and this group with two new free agents can get past first round next season. 

Okay we can point the two worst prospects recently. Or we can point to Boldy, Faber, Rossi and Chisholm who have made huge contributions to this team. Ohgren is 20. He needed time to adapt to the league, that is not an inditement on what he may become. Yurov and Zeev have far more upside than Khus ever did. They aren't sure things but they are right near to it. Kap and Makar are superstars, we can't expect our prospects to hit that mark. By what I have been hearing, Yurov will likely be a top 6 player and Zeev is the best defenseman in the NCAA right now.

[Pewterschmidt]

37 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

By what I have been hearing, Yurov will likely be a top 6 player and Zeev is the best defenseman in the NCAA right now.

You misinterpreted most of my post, so I'll focus on this line from yours.

If you think Yurov is a top six player from day one, I'll say that's overly optimistic.  Khuz, Rossi, Ogzy, Wall-e were/are far from top six contributors on day one.  They all came with lots of prospect savior hype,  It took Rossi a couple years to get there.  I'm not saying Ogz and Khuz won't eventually get there.  But if you're saying Yurov and Buium start next season in top 6/top 4 roles, I'd say you're denying the evidence that you've seen with your own eyes. 

[OldDutchChip]

8 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Sure, expendable, but selling off everyone for short term gain is what Nashville did.  Tell me how THAT worked out.  Tell me how well Buffalo's tried morphing everything every five years to no success.  

Worrying about what Kaprizov will or won't do 6 months before because "lol, we lost a few games in a season we weren't expecting shit in anyway" just seems a little funny.

i can say the same about vegas or florida. but each scenario is unique. preds do not have a player like Kap, with such a timeline. their core is aging so they decided, incorrectly, to compliment that with a 40 year old stammy, and became penguins of the west. 

worrying about Kaprizov a minute before he is due to sign is a bit odd. you know you have to make plans and put your self in the best position. but if you think 6 years of mediocracy, no second round appearance, no one to stand up for him (on his line) and no sure thing from prospects actually blossoming - well yes then he will surely sign. oh yeah and the money too - he is all about that. 

[mnfaninnc]

10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

There is no way he stays here with no clear vision!

I would suggest that the clear vision was to rebuild this team through the draft on the fly from the years 2020-2023. Buium in 2024 is a sheer bonus. The influx of young talent and young legs would eventually supplant the vet placeholders and Kaprizov would be leading the charge with Ek and Boldy. That looks like a pretty clear vision to me, though it does require patience.

10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

As for Wally - allowing on average 4 goals per game and saving at 850% clip is a bit unsettling for me.

If you are just looking at The Wall's statistics, yes, this is unsettling. If you are looking at The Wall through the eye test, no, it isn't unsettling. He is learning, and it is obvious that what he's seen in the A isn't good enough for his development. The issue here is Fleury. He's blocking the development of The Wall, and, getting The Wall on Kaprizov's supposed timeline. The Wall should have had 20 starts this year to acclimate him to the N. And, he should be playing mainly against bottom 21 offenses right now. Goose is better in a timeline snapshot, but it may not be like that for long.

 

10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

A lot of people expected the same of Ohgren and that did not happen - which again help us very little. 

I was not one of these people. However, I did think that had Yurov come over for this season, he was a candidate as well as The Wall, so that's a wash.

 

10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Now we have lucked out with a superstar that called the time of his departure - and we are resuming our lemming walk to the promise land

We do not know how Kaprizov is thinking. To me, he doesn't seem like a big city guy and prefers being under the radar a bit. Yes, he played in Moscow, but in Russian he could hold his own. I think he's still a little intimidated by big city English. My evidence is he still doesn't talk to Kevin in between periods after he scores. Big cities would want way more face of the franchise type of stuff. I think he and his GF like it here. It's merely an opinion just like yours is, but I think he is excited about what he sees coming too.

10 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

let other grow balls and pluck out Tkachuks, Eichels, Stones,

You know I'm on board with a Tuch, Tkachuk, and even Lindstrom drafted last season. I think we need these guys to make a run. What I'm not on board with is a Marchessault or Stamkos, or some other players who just won't bring that same tenacity that these guys can bring. 

If you're selling the prospect farm to make your run, you've got to get the right guys. They need size and skill. I think with our current cap position, we will not be able to maximize those trades and it will be more like giveaways. 

Remember, I was the 1st one to bring up B. Tkachuk here and everyone thought I was crazy. I was willing to go Boldy + Rossi on a deal for him, as I think he is truly the key missing piece to our team. He's got term, he's got size, he's got hands, he's got tenacity that makes everyone around him play better....and he hates to lose. 

My conclusion is that we should do the best we can do with what we've got this season, but next season is the season we start to go for it. I think if we trade for this season, it will be more like giveaways since we don't have the ability to swallow cap numbers needed for the talent. So, we'd be overpaying for cap considerations. Maybe we get to the 2nd round if we do it this season. That doesn't help us much if we are giving away ELC assets. Short term your plan makes sense, but if it's short term success and Kaprizov doesn't see the long game, I think he's more apt to bow out and sign somewhere else.

[OldDutchChip]

8 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

Just think what you're proposing anyway.  Everyone but Kap is expendable.  Ok.  So the Chicago approach.  They are barely any better in 3 seasons.  Buffalo's been through 3-4 different rebuilds already in like 5-10 years.  The Wild are barely on three in 20.

Say you get rid of everyone.  Say Guerin has 'no plan."  That is obviously not true, just because, "OH NO WE GOT INJURED WE SUCK FOR A FEW GAMES BLOW IT UP!"

Boldy/Faber: Locked in for 5-10 years as complementary pieces.  Boldy is a PPG, and Faber is a 50 pt guy in year 2.

Rossi: May or may not hit 60-70 pts in year 2 (30 pt increase).  At minimum, a top 50-75 point producer in the league, so a 1st-2nd line player: another comp piece.

Ek and Brodin: Injury prone yes, but defensive wonders on decent length contracts.

Gus: Vezina capable goalie, on a cheap as shit contract for another year.

 

They have ready made replacements at almost any position, with 2-3 higher end ones (Yurov/Zeev/Wallstedt) who are young as shit and can compensate any high prices to keep Rossi or Gus.  The Wild can afford to wait for that right guy IF they can get them, but only of the money is right.

Sorry the "timeline" doesn't work.  The Wild don't have endless funds or dance partners to trade "just yet."  For now, the team CAN compete, but only in a tightrope.  You're demanding success from a team that has a Drai or almost a Boldy/Faber duo's worth of money lost because the last rebuild went for shit.  Saying we should be pissed because we look like or have the same success as the Blue Jackets is frankly absurd.  The Blue Jackets are bad for lots of reasons, and some that was out of their control.

The Wild spent $98m locking up two players, but got diddly fucking squat and put Guerin in this situation to begin with.  Don't sit there and tell me to be pissed and blow away a decent recovery foundation job because we lost four fucking games.

Just think what you're proposing anyway.  Everyone but Kap is expendable.  Ok.  So the Chicago approach.  i am saying for the right deal - everyone is available. should avs bite on boldy and yurov for ranty - boot boldy and his golf clubs to colorado.

Say you get rid of everyone.  Say Guerin has 'no plan."  That is obviously not true, just because, "OH NO WE GOT INJURED WE SUCK FOR A FEW GAMES BLOW IT UP!" Guerin's plan relies ONLY on Kap. the minute he walks we become Sharks and Hawks. 

Boldy/Faber: Locked in for 5-10 years as complementary pieces.  Boldy is a PPG, and Faber is a 50 pt guy in year 2. have you seen Boldy and Fat Ass Faber play this year? Are they worth 7 and 8.5 mm? really? Boldy is a figure skater half the time and Faber has taken a bit of a step back (i hope we don't have another Suter here, sorry "one-of-us" how dare I)

Rossi: May or may not hit 60-70 pts in year 2 (30 pt increase).  At minimum, a top 50-75 point producer in the league, so a 1st-2nd line player: another comp piece. Oh joy. Is he untouchable? Can we maybe use him at his highest to entice someone? 

Ek and Brodin: Injury prone yes, but defensive wonders on decent length contracts. Yes, won't argue that. Brodin is our first/second best D player on most nights. And Ek has likely been injured this entire year and still gives it all. 

Gus: Vezina capable goalie, on a cheap as shit contract for another year. Yes and Yes. See you are already half way to agreeing with ODC. D is solid and G is amazing. We have a super star. But there is a catch. He has given you a hint of what will happen in a year by cementing a deadline. No patience and 5 year plan. He needs to experience winning NOW so that he signs off. Otherwise - there are just too many variables working against us for him to leave. 

They have ready made replacements at almost any position, with 2-3 higher end ones (Yurov/Zeev/Wallstedt) who are young as shit and can compensate any high prices to keep Rossi or Gus.  They are young as shit - but they proven that they need time. Add Ohgren to that list. And 2-4 of your list are unplayable at this point. You think Yurov and Zeev will come in and be ready to go or will they need another year or two to polish up? And what then - will both become stars? if not - what will 30 year Kaprizov say to himself? 

Sorry the "timeline" doesn't work.  It doesn't matter. You deal with it. Stop using Cap penalties as a crutch. We did not tie up the money in true elite first liner and a shut down D. Our money went into fourth line slow ass parise and nate prosser "suter". Fine go ahead and use them. Parise becomes Lauko (that's good for ZP) and Bogo is your Suter replacement. There no more Cap penalties to cry over. See our issue is not just Cap - it's mis allocation of funds. Kind of like paying 8.5 million for an unproven D with really no one to rush you to do so, or outbidding your self for Trenin or Foligno or Harty or Zuccy? Combine that with removing any logic and financial ingenuity by dumping your cap guru is also something ..... This blurb is likely a bit too hard to read and extract a point so apologies but essentially - Billy has made a number of questionable calls and is now overseeing the most vital point in this franchise existance. His plans need to be without holes. Without question marks and without f ups. He has had too many. 

Edited Monday at 03:44 PM by OldDutchChip

[Pewterschmidt]

8 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I think he and his GF like it here. It's merely an opinion just like yours is, but I think he is excited about what he sees coming too.

I’m not trolling you mnfan but you make these kinds of statements a lot.  
based on what?   Your gut instincts or do you have some info to support the opinion

[mnfaninnc]

9 hours ago, Citizen Strife said:

The Wild spent $98m locking up two players, but got diddly fucking squat and put Guerin in this situation to begin with. 

And, if we're learning lessons, Fletcher also rushed the youngens to the N because after we signed those 2 guys we HAD to win and HAD to make the playoffs. Had we kept some down in Houston for an extra year of development, we might have had better success. So, Guerin has seen those lessons and has protected the upcoming talent from the pressure of having to perform well in the N before they were ready to. 

[OldDutchChip]

6 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I would suggest that the clear vision was to rebuild this team through the draft on the fly from the years 2020-2023. Buium in 2024 is a sheer bonus. The influx of young talent and young legs would eventually supplant the vet placeholders and Kaprizov would be leading the charge with Ek and Boldy. That looks like a pretty clear vision to me, though it does require patience.

If you are just looking at The Wall's statistics, yes, this is unsettling. If you are looking at The Wall through the eye test, no, it isn't unsettling. He is learning, and it is obvious that what he's seen in the A isn't good enough for his development. The issue here is Fleury. He's blocking the development of The Wall, and, getting The Wall on Kaprizov's supposed timeline. The Wall should have had 20 starts this year to acclimate him to the N. And, he should be playing mainly against bottom 21 offenses right now. Goose is better in a timeline snapshot, but it may not be like that for long.

 

I was not one of these people. However, I did think that had Yurov come over for this season, he was a candidate as well as The Wall, so that's a wash.

 

We do not know how Kaprizov is thinking. To me, he doesn't seem like a big city guy and prefers being under the radar a bit. Yes, he played in Moscow, but in Russian he could hold his own. I think he's still a little intimidated by big city English. My evidence is he still doesn't talk to Kevin in between periods after he scores. Big cities would want way more face of the franchise type of stuff. I think he and his GF like it here. It's merely an opinion just like yours is, but I think he is excited about what he sees coming too.

You know I'm on board with a Tuch, Tkachuk, and even Lindstrom drafted last season. I think we need these guys to make a run. What I'm not on board with is a Marchessault or Stamkos, or some other players who just won't bring that same tenacity that these guys can bring. 

If you're selling the prospect farm to make your run, you've got to get the right guys. They need size and skill. I think with our current cap position, we will not be able to maximize those trades and it will be more like giveaways. 

Remember, I was the 1st one to bring up B. Tkachuk here and everyone thought I was crazy. I was willing to go Boldy + Rossi on a deal for him, as I think he is truly the key missing piece to our team. He's got term, he's got size, he's got hands, he's got tenacity that makes everyone around him play better....and he hates to lose. 

My conclusion is that we should do the best we can do with what we've got this season, but next season is the season we start to go for it. I think if we trade for this season, it will be more like giveaways since we don't have the ability to swallow cap numbers needed for the talent. So, we'd be overpaying for cap considerations. Maybe we get to the 2nd round if we do it this season. That doesn't help us much if we are giving away ELC assets. Short term your plan makes sense, but if it's short term success and Kaprizov doesn't see the long game, I think he's more apt to bow out and sign somewhere else.

Kaprizov is 27. Will be 28 when this year ends. Do you think he will sign off on wasting his prime to help out MN prospects? Let's see Zeev and Yurov arrive next year. They arrive like second coming of Makar and Mogilny. Good. But maybe they need a season or two. That is likely more realistic - and puts Kap at 30. I am sorry - this is not what he wants. He wants to win now. Unless we want to keep signing Zuccy into his late 40's - Kap will be on the east coast very soon. 

My conclusion is that we should do the best we can do with what we've got this season, but next season is the season we start to go for it. Common the neverending cycle of mediocracy? we deserve better! 

Let's all grow some balls and go for  it 🏐🎾⚾🏀⚽

[OldDutchChip]

23 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

We do not know how Kaprizov is thinking. To me, he doesn't seem like a big city guy and prefers being under the radar a bit. Yes, he played in Moscow, but in Russian he could hold his own. I think he's still a little intimidated by big city English. My evidence is he still doesn't talk to Kevin in between periods after he scores. Big cities would want way more face of the franchise type of stuff. I think he and his GF like it here. It's merely an opinion just like yours is, but I think he is excited about what he sees coming too.

The first sentence is true. As for the rest - his GF was not born in Edina. She was born to a famous music singer and producer. She lived in one of the biggest cities in the world. As for the talk on the bench and general communication - explore the psychology there too - he has connected to Zuccy - an old player from Norway. I actually think that's working against us - there is no connection to youth! Zuccy is the tie to his culture. When Zuccy is gone, he will move into an atmosphere of comfort, which will be an east cost - NY/Philly or Florida location. It was always an uphill battle for us to retain him. We had to hit on either winning or bond (Zuccy)...i think we failed. 90% chance he leaves. 10% is only in place because i really think Billy knows it and is going after someone big. With money retention, picks, prospects and all that is possible and impossible in play. Otherwise he will be canned right after Kap leaves. 

Edited Monday at 04:03 PM by OldDutchChip

[mnfaninnc]

38 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

If you think Yurov is a top six player from day one, I'll say that's overly optimistic.  Khuz, Rossi, Ogzy, Wall-e were/are far from top six contributors on day one.  They all came with lots of prospect savior hype,  It took Rossi a couple years to get there.  I'm not saying Ogz and Khuz won't eventually get there.  But if you're saying Yurov and Buium start next season in top 6/top 4 roles, I'd say you're denying the evidence that you've seen with your own eyes. 

I'm thinking with the extra year in the K that Yurov will come over and produce a Bedard like rookie season ( I was a year late on Rossi, but to be fair, expected him to have more strength and not be 175). I expect Buium to be a 3rd pairing defender when he breaks in, and quickly impress moving up the pairings as injuries occur, much like Chisholm is doing this year but with even better play. I expect Jiricek to move into the lineup in March of this year and show a lot of growth. Right now, I believe he's working on his skating and learning our structure. He'll be here soon. As for The Wall, I expect him to be learning but to be a good backup until forced to take on more of a starter role due to injury. Then, I believe we start to see his value.

I also believe Ohgren makes the team and does a lot of dirty work for the team, but the numbers won't really be there yet.

[mnfaninnc]

20 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I’m not trolling you mnfan but you make these kinds of statements a lot.  
based on what?   Your gut instincts or do you have some info to support the opinion

I have no evidence. But, my gut said that Fiala would flee the team and his GF/wife wanted warm weather. That's where he went. I wanted to resign him, but it takes 2 parties to do that. I was convinced Shooter already had the deal in place with LA before Fiala's last season started. Shooter knew where he wanted to go, Kings were the only fit with the cap. 

Kaprizov's situation doesn't look like this to me. It looks opposite. He looks like he's a far better teammate than Fiala was, and that he has more fun here. It's just a body language thing and a gut feeling. 

With Gaborik, it was still the dark ages in hockey where I was. I got too little Wild information to even know how to comment on that. But I can say it was really stupid to go after Martin Havlet to replace him. 

None of us really knows Kaprizov's mindset. He's not in the media very often. He enjoys his privacy. I would suggest that this is a very good setup for him and that he likes it. We let him get away from doing little media, but still fill the building full and have great fans. He may have played in Moscow, but he grew up in a small community. I think that's where he's most comfortable. 

[mnfaninnc]

27 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Common the neverending cycle of mediocracy? we deserve better! 

I agree with this statement, but just like a slingshot pass in racing, you've got to time it precisely, or everyone gets wiped out. I think as a team we grow a lot this season, but it is a preview of next season where this squad becomes a contender. 

Is it with Tuch? Is it with Tkachuk? I hope for both. I'm willing to give up assets for both. I'm not willing to give up assets for talented, big bodied guys who do not have that tenacity. And this is why I feel we need to get the cap penalties off our back. 

Also, there are a couple of guys who have NMCs turn into M-NTCs that will help with the roster. Some of these guys may need to be switched out with youth. The cap era is a balancing act, and if you can get great value out of ELCs, you can also put money elsewhere. With $13m tied up in dead cap, next season that dead cap can turn into live cap and make the trade better.

[Imyourhuckleberry]

On 12/20/2024 at 3:36 PM, Pewterschmidt said:

If Yurov = 97 2.0 AND Buium = Makar 2.0 then I could get on the same page, but I don't think that's the case.

They won't be those players, that's fairly clear.

If Buium, however, is a like the 20-year old version of Miro Heiskanen, and Yurov is like a 22-year old version of Robert Thomas, well, those types of players replacing Merrill/Chisholm and Johansson could have a massive impact.

If you put Yurov between Boldy and Boeser(or free agent of your preference--Rantanen and Marner are pending free agents, but might be outside the realm of possibility), you are going to get a lot of points.

[mnfaninnc]

25 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i really think Billy knows it and is going after someone big.

Can you attach a name to big?

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I agree with this statement, but just like a slingshot pass in racing, you've got to time it precisely, or everyone gets wiped out. I think as a team we grow a lot this season, but it is a preview of next season where this squad becomes a contender. 

Is it with Tuch? Is it with Tkachuk? I hope for both. I'm willing to give up assets for both. I'm not willing to give up assets for talented, big bodied guys who do not have that tenacity. And this is why I feel we need to get the cap penalties off our back. 

Also, there are a couple of guys who have NMCs turn into M-NTCs that will help with the roster. Some of these guys may need to be switched out with youth. The cap era is a balancing act, and if you can get great value out of ELCs, you can also put money elsewhere. With $13m tied up in dead cap, next season that dead cap can turn into live cap and make the trade better.

isn't having the best player in the world that is due to leave in a year kind of a good timing? 🙂 with your analogy - should we do nothing now - we are going to be wiped out

as for trades: maybe its rantanen, maybe tkachuk, maybe tuch, maybe some one else, but it cannot be proceed as normal and let our prospects come in and contribute over the next year or two or three or decade

cap penalties again .... you do realize that we are already in another cap penalty hell with foligno and harty and trenin? they make what 12 mil!! could we have used that 12 mil and signed someone better.....probably but it is what it is. parise and suter are replaceable, it's just we threw money at crap, did we learn lesson not to do that? hmm i don't know. maybe we'll enter another one when we sign a 35 year old over the hill brock nelson to 7 million 4 year deal? that's a diff topic but something to keep in mind - 13 mil for 2 high end players or 13 mil for 2 over the hill unplayable old geezers - there is a lesson in there for the wild.....

as for waiting for last possible minute to act - well that gives you no out and makes this year - very deflating for Kap. such a good start, MVP season and go out and back track.....

we have seen Boldy and Rossi enough - i am at the point where even Boldy can be used. Again - if you can do this - you do it now

Crazy ODC ideas: 

• Boldy/Yurov and some other in and out for Ranty (colorado does not want to pay - we will next year)
• Rossi/Zeev for Tuch
• Faber Wally Ohgren - can also be in play

Leave Ek Kap (Zuccy too stays) and go make the team better 

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Can you attach a name to big?

brock nelson hahaha

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

None of us really knows Kaprizov's mindset. He's not in the media very often. He enjoys his privacy. I would suggest that this is a very good setup for him and that he likes it. We let him get away from doing little media, but still fill the building full and have great fans.

This is the most compelling explanation I've heard yet for 97 re-signing.  He gets to stay in the shadows and play ice hockey vs a bigger market where he's pressured to become a personality in addition to a player.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

Otherwise he will be canned right after Kap leaves. 

This is the next thing we'll get to handicap if 97 leaves....first things first.  Get it done Guerin.

#don'tbedumbbill