Article: Minnesota's Record Is Masking A Serious Underlying Issue

[OldDutchChip]

53 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

But who?  Obviously Rossi would be a intriguing get for a number of teams in this league, but who are we getting in return that makes it make any sense for the Wild in the position they are currently in?

Just give me one example of an <23 year old on an ELC (all we can afford) that would improve the wild if we swapped for Rossi.  Give me one name, that would be a likely candidate who could come in here, and improve this team compared to what we are getting out of Rossi this season.

I can give you a list of 32 teams who would look at a player like Rossi and have a roster spot for him, but there's a much shorter (or non-existent) list of players coming back that make any sort of sense on Rossi this season prior to the TDL

Just give me one example of an <23 year old on an ELC (all we can afford) that would improve the wild if we swapped for Rossi.  
 

I never said I’m looking for under 23 on ELC

[MrCheatachu]

1 hour ago, MNCountryLife said:

Dumbest?  Dang man.  I read a few social media posts or something on politics and I'm pretty sure it lacks all sense of reality much less any common sense.  Giving me the "Dumbest thing I've read on the internet in a while" seems a bit harsh.  LOL.

I'll apologize for my harsh tone.  I am not on social media (I have a link to russo via xcancel.com to avoid that cesspool).

But professional hockey players are not 'revolting' against their coach and the idea that they're somehow no longer playing hard or wanting to win because the coach has decided to play MoJo is purely insanity.  Telling me that Trenin/Foligno/Hartzy looking at MoJo getting minutes and saying 'nah, i dont got to play hard' or any of the AHL guys doing anything but busting their ass to stay up with the big club because 'MoJo is getting minutes' is certainly a take.

You're allowed to not like MoJo.  That's fine.  But to propose the team is revolting against the team because a $2M/yr player is soft is sure an interesting take.  

[MacGyver]

3 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

No Ek is definitely hurting.  He plays a physical game that is frustrating to play against.  Get him back and we don't seem so small anymore.  Without him and the top 2 lines do seem to get pushed around a bit.

The last few seasons have seen him sit out long stretches due to injuries. I think we better get used to seeing that with him. Injuries are becoming nagging injuries. It's his aggressive style of play and it's hard on the body. I don't see Ek changing his style of play but if he does not his career is going to be short. If he does he is not going to be nearly as effective. 

[MNCountryLife]

14 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

But professional hockey players are not 'revolting' against their coach and the idea that they're somehow no longer playing hard or wanting to win because the coach has decided to play MoJo is purely insanity.

I do believe that coaches sometimes lose the locker room.  I would imagine that each player may react differently.  Sometimes just trying to do too much can cause problems.  I think we are getting a glimpse of players getting frustrated.  Especially with our PK.   Wold like to see it fixed.  But I haven't seen a good PK for 2 years and the breakdown I am seeing is reminiscent of last year.  My confidence in a fix is not high.

I doubt the players are angry with Marcus or his time.  What they want is a solution.... and I fully believe that Mojo is a problem.  It is hard to watch a player that doesn't engage or is not as engaging as he should be and it is causing the ice to tilt the wrong way.  What really angers me about Mojo is that I think he has the skills to be a top 6 player and he will show a glimpse of it here or there.  It could be a coaching problem if that is what they are asking of him.  I don't know.  It's still December.  If we don't find a solution to the PK and the ice tilt Hynes will lose this locker room.  To do the latter he needs to fix Mojo or sit him.

[Quebec1648]

The core problems facing the Wild have been going on for years, with no resolution in sight. We have changed players, coaches and even the GM, yet the penalty kill is still bad, we can`t score or win in the playoffs, and we get pushed around by the big name teams. I don't think replacing Guerin or Hynes will change anything, as the ongoing problems were occurring long before they showed up.

What is missing?

Number one, most championship teams go through a rebuild phase, that usually includes a couple top 5 draft picks. Leopold won't go the rebuild route, so we draft mid range players as opposed to getting a top pick. 

Secondly, the star player on most championship teams tends to be a big player with both size and skill, while the Wild players tend be one or the other, but not both. Ek and Boldy have the combo of size and skill, but they play on line 2. We need Boldy and Ek on line 1 with Kaprizov. Put Rossi down on line 2, and get another player with skill and size to support him.

Third, is the horrendous penalty kill, which occurs, because we lack a big name dman with size and skill. Get a 6'3 defenseman with skill and pair them with Faber. 

[Burnt Toast]

8 hours ago, MNCountryLife said:

No Ek is definitely hurting

I think we are a completely different team with him on the ice. Everyone gets to slide back into roles they can handle. He may not be our MVP (Kap) but he’s our Super Sized player MVP. He doesn’t get pushed around on the ice. 

[Burnt Toast]

8 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

these guys still aren't quite ready.  

I’m with this take 100%. I think the Wild will be improving over the next 3 years for sure.  I mean this year can still be a thing if we’ve got near full health with the roster. Probably need some breaks too. Lately it seems like our competition is better at just plain old shooting. I’d like to see steady improvement on that one basic skill set. 

[Burnt Toast]

2 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

What is missing?

I think KK certainly represents a solid top 5 pick. There’s one of those high picks. It would be nice to see Yurov and/or JW hit big and be the second. 

[Burnt Toast]

2 hours ago, Quebec1648 said:

The core problems facing the Wild have been going on for years, with no resolution in sight.

I understand what you’re saying based on this year’s Wild team. I disagree that there’s no resolution scenario over the next few seasons. #1 We have a true Superstar KK. #2 We’ve invested in drafting lots of players with multiple firsts and seconds over the last 5 seasons. #3 We’ve made solid trades improving the team incrementally. #4 A full evaluation isn’t possible until we see the team without the cap penalty burden. I only see one scenario where the Wild don’t get better each of the next few seasons. That’s if KK walks. 

[mnfaninnc]

19 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

Just give me one example of an <23 year old on an ELC (all we can afford)

Unfortunately for us, but predictable, we are carving into LTIR money right now, which means we will have much less at the TDL. Sure, I'd love to get Tuch, but who else gets thrown in when Buffalo retains 50% of that contract? It would have to be Rossi +.

How many eyes do we have on Denver? We should have good eyes on Iowa. So here's a way we could make a deal here. 

What if we sent Rossi+Chisholm+Johansson=Tuch 50% retained+Anton Wahlberg? Math would be

• Rossi-$863k+$850K(bonuses)
• Chisholm-$1m
• Johansson-$2m
• Tuch-$4.75m>$2.375m
• Walberg is still in Sweden, elc

You really wouldn't even need Johansson in the deal, I was only throwing him in for contract issues, but he has a full NTC. Rossi+Chisholm=$2.7m

Now, the premise here is that we have banked a lot of points by the deadline, Buium is set to be signed as soon as his year is finished (we would have to know that, dinner with Guerin) and he'd be ready to step in. We feel comfortable giving Lambos a cup of coffee from the TDL to Buium's signing or Travis Dermott can eat some minutes and perform at a similar rate to Chisholm. 

From Buffalo's perspective, if they need some secondary scoring, Rossi would be a nice pickup and probably get moved to wing. Chisholm fills in on the 3rd pairing and is an instant upgrade from Connor Clifton. He's younger and cheaper and looks to be a better all around player. Zucker and Greenway come off the books after this season as UFAs, I'm not sure whether they want to resign either. They also seem like they may be selling fodder for playoff teams.

Currently, Buffalo sits in the #2 spot for the 2025 NHL draft. Nashville is in the #1 spot.

From our perspective, we lose a center, but this could be backfilled by Yurov. Yurov's team is in 5th place in their conference so they are almost assured of making the playoffs, but it may be a one an done. Can he immediately come over like Khus did? Can he play in the playoffs? Tuch gives us the heavy RHS we've needed since he was traded. We've made a place for Buium after the season to step in, could bring up Jiricek/Lambos to see how they are for a period. Our center position is temporarily depleted, but reinforcements are coming. 

We'd likely be one and done in a playoff series this year, but Tuch helps us a lot next year, and Buium should too, as will Jiricek. Rossi is a loss, but I think Tuch is a bigger gain at this point for a win now scenario. Tuch is also 28.

[Will D. Ness]

Isn't it kind of neurotic to be 20-8-4 and yet perceive the sky to be falling?

Welcome to the mind of the average Minnesota sports fan.

[mnfaninnc]

The take that Heinzy has lost the room is a ludicrous idea. They've banked points and are currently sitting pretty good. The frustration isn't being taken out because Johansson gets minutes. Perhaps the frustration is that some of these guys should be scoring more, like looking directly at Moose and Hartsy. 

The easy to play against theme is real at this moment in time. We don't have 6'3" 220 wingers waiting in Iowa on $1m contracts. Where we are is having injuries to Lauko, Ek, Trenin and Middleton all at the same time. That takes out 4 guys who are hard to play against and replacing them with not hard to play against players. 

Nobody likes getting smoked 7-1 and 6-1, especially at home. But we knew this coming into the season. If we were healthy, we could hang with the big boys. If we were injured + down $15m in cap space, we weren't going to have the depth we needed, especially if important pieces were taken away. I would suggest that the sum of these pieces is important because they are the guys that make us hard to play against. Offensively, we really miss both Ek and Midsy.

Also, being humbled isn't necessarily a bad thing, it makes you work a little harder in practice and on your game. 

Roster construction: Kaprizov does count as a top 5 pick. Jiricek is a recent 6th overall, has an RHS and is big. He's not quite ready yet. Boldy in most drafts would be considered in the top 7. The Wall was being bounced around by a couple of draft gurus in the top 5. Yurov in the top 10. Lambos before his draft season was considered in the top 12. All these guys just haven't arrived yet and we've got to get out of the mindset that they will only take 2 years to get here. With a missing 1.5 years of development, we probably have to wait more. 

Guerin has somehow accumulated all of the pieces that he needs to transform this team into a contender. Now he has to get Kaprizov to see it too. Also, these players need to develop and not flop which is a hard thing to hit. Now, for this to happen, one would think that a GM would throw a lot of assets toward the development of these guys. This is where his current coaching staff in Iowa, to me, just doesn't make sense, and his stance on not insisting on bulking players up to NHL bodies doesn't make sense. 

[MrCheatachu]

20 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

We'd likely be one and done in a playoff series this year, but Tuch helps us a lot next year

This trade (in my opinion) doesn't help the team get better, nor does it make much sense from Buffalo's perspective. 

I don't see why Buffalo would trade Tuch, let alone for a 50% discount.  Buffalo's already got issues including the guy drafted 5 spots ahead of Boldy who's got a similar 7x$7.1M who's on pace to put up a whopping 14 points through 32 games this season (Cozens).  IF Tuch is available, he's going to return a much better haul than Rossi + garbage.  

If SillyG is going to move the guy on the team that's 3rd in points this season, it better make the team significantly better, NOW.  It better not be for a move that might make the team better down the road depending on if some prospects (who havent done squat yet) step up.

With the record and points in the bank we have, the team isn't going to be sellers at the moment.  I know that's a hard mindset shift from what we always deal with, and as MN fans have been conditioned to expect disappointment. 

 

[MrCheatachu]

11 minutes ago, Will D. Ness said:

Isn't it kind of neurotic to be 20-8-4 and yet perceive the sky to be falling?

Welcome to the mind of the average Minnesota sports fan.

Better yet, what kind of return can we get selling off some of our desireable assets?

Surely there's got to be a team making a playoff push that could use Rossi...🙄

[mnfaninnc]

4 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

This trade (in my opinion) doesn't help the team get better, nor does it make much sense from Buffalo's perspective. 

I don't see why Buffalo would trade Tuch, let alone for a 50% discount.  Buffalo's already got issues including the guy drafted 5 spots ahead of Boldy who's got a similar 7x$7.1M who's on pace to put up a whopping 14 points through 32 games this season (Cozens).  IF Tuch is available, he's going to return a much better haul than Rossi + garbage.  

Is it Chisholm that would be considered garbage? I was only throwing in Johansson to make the numbers work, but it turns out he doesn't even have to be part of the deal. Look at their defense, it's very top heavy, but their 3rd pairing left side could use an upgrade. 

Buffalo would be throwing in the towel this season. I would think both of these guys help them for next season. 

For us, I believe Tuch helps, but doesn't get us over the bar. The main reason is because we don't have the center depth that's needed. Now, throwing out a pick and prospect for Nelson might change that, but I didn't handle this part of the team building. My point is that Tuch alone doesn't move the needle because we don't have all of our pieces ready. I do think he puts us in a better position, and would likely be a better playoff player than Rossi at this time. 

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, MrCheatachu said:

This trade (in my opinion) doesn't help the team get better, nor does it make much sense from Buffalo's perspective. 

I don't see why Buffalo would trade Tuch, let alone for a 50% discount.  Buffalo's already got issues including the guy drafted 5 spots ahead of Boldy who's got a similar 7x$7.1M who's on pace to put up a whopping 14 points through 32 games this season (Cozens).  IF Tuch is available, he's going to return a much better haul than Rossi + garbage.  

If SillyG is going to move the guy on the team that's 3rd in points this season, it better make the team significantly better, NOW.  It better not be for a move that might make the team better down the road depending on if some prospects (who havent done squat yet) step up.

With the record and points in the bank we have, the team isn't going to be sellers at the moment.  I know that's a hard mindset shift from what we always deal with, and as MN fans have been conditioned to expect disappointment. 

 

Tuch will help now and in the future. 

[LittleBallofHate]

Boo to paying high to doubling back on past mistakes. This team needs more players that produce at key moments, a center that can win a key faceoff is what they need. 

I enjoy that this article mentions that piece about key moments I've even been lukewarm on Heinz, but I really like that he has that ID'd as well. The wild have too many bozo's during key turning points.

Rewatch most playoff games from the last 5 years... Even when we had size, snarl, swagger - ooop! they finally gave us the power play, or holy cats!! we get to go 2-men-up!... So what you need to do is WHATEVER you can to win this faceoff & ... no.. oh no.. yep you lost the faceoff, cleanly... not even mucking it up on the boards, well that's ok, you got the puck back. Just swing it back towards.... nope you are going to triple back pass.

Or put the shoe on the other freak'n foot an say. Well shoot I guess we just need to PK. Ok, well just win a D-zone faceo.... nope, phew! you iced it. Now, at the very least just don't CLEANLY LOSE the draw, jam it to the boards, scrum for 20 seconds whatever.... No, there it goes CLEAN AS BABIES ASS to the blueline & 1-minute+ of cycling & right into our net.

--low quality at key moments makes all the difference, especially from the pivot. It may drive me nuts, but the real superstars & winners do know how to sandbag a bit for those key moments. No product from the Sabres has that quality right now, that will not solve it.