Article: Minnesota's Record Is Masking A Serious Underlying Issue

[Phillip Garrett]

View full article

[Pewterschmidt]

Minnesota's Record Is Masking A Serious Underlying Issue
 

you think we’re fighting and I think we’re finally talking

[Pewterschmidt]

If these issues prevail after Christmas, it may be time to evaluate the roster construction.
And now we’re back to the apathetic old core extensions?  Basically the bottom six + nojo

 again winning makes everyone look smart.   (Thank you 97’s mvp performance. ) now that the same old cracks are showing with this same group (and new coach) we have same team and all its same deficiencies?  Whose fault is this?  Buck stops with Guerin at year 5.  

[Dean]

Good article. I didn’t think the wild would be in playoff hunt this year. Looks like the core jumped some teams early this year and racked up points . However now that teams are gelling and gearing up to make playoffs. Our core can’t handle the good teams. Imagine that the same thing is happening again with the same players . Billy can blow his whole wad on a d-man years away but can’t get secondary scoring,  a center that can win a face off  , or some size on the team so they quit getting bullied . 
   The simple problem with the wild is they are weak and small !  Those pretty early season passing goals don’t work in playoffs . The wild get punched in the face and  then fall apart . Unless the offense goes through kappy there is no offense. Boldy can’t drive anything . Either can Rossi. Kappy is all alone but Billy has a d man a respected gm gave up on instead of help for kappy !  I like taking a chance on the d man but only if the rest of your house is in order . The wild need a legit center and secondary scoring Rossi , Freddy , knat . Is a pathetic center depth down the middle. . They get caved on faceoffs and in the d zone.  None of them are over 6 ft . The pk is terrible because they have no size or length on the pk. They are weak and get manhandled. 
   The wild are wimps. They have no strength .the speed game only works if you play fast. The wild can’t do that long enough to win a playoff series or games against good teams . When Freddy g is your 3 rd line center and pk guy your a bad team! 

[OldDutchChip]

Vegas and Panthers showed us what to expect when we play good/physical playoffs teams. Add to that list Dallas, Jets and Avs and Kings.

What do we do?  Billy will do something. 

(a) Status Quo - let it proceed as it will and then bring some old Minnesotan in the off season (Brock N, Brock B, Kessel, Oshie?) and play Zeev and Yurov and let them experience some growing pains and hope Kap really really loves it here

(b) Trade for Brock Nelson at this year trade deadline (giving up a first rd pick) i don't know play him on line 2? And do L1 Ek Kap Zuccy L2 Nelson Rossi Boldy L3 Freddy Trenin Foligno L4 Marat Lauko Harty? MJ plays for whoever is injured i guess? 

(c) Trade Rossi for a bigger player (i am not naming names cause i'll be screamed at by Mateo and it's too early in the day for that!) but if Rossi is traded for say Tuch, and i guess we can still trade for Nelson that would give us? L1 Ek Kap Zuccy L2 Nelson Tuch Boldy L3 Freddy Trenin Foligno L4 Marat Lauko Harty

Lastly - i think last two games basically sealed Rossi's fate. 

[mnhockeyfan03]

18 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Vegas and Panthers showed us what to expect when we play good/physical playoffs teams. Add to that list Dallas, Jets and Avs and Kings.

What do we do?  Billy will do something. 

(a) Status Quo - let it proceed as it will and then bring some old Minnesotan in the off season (Brock N, Brock B, Kessel, Oshie?) and play Zeev and Yurov and let them experience some growing pains and hope Kap really really loves it here

(b) Trade for Brock Nelson at this year trade deadline (giving up a first rd pick) i don't know play him on line 2? And do L1 Ek Kap Zuccy L2 Nelson Rossi Boldy L3 Freddy Trenin Foligno L4 Marat Lauko Harty? MJ plays for whoever is injured i guess? 

(c) Trade Rossi for a bigger player (i am not naming names cause i'll be screamed at by Mateo and it's too early in the day for that!) but if Rossi is traded for say Tuch, and i guess we can still trade for Nelson that would give us? L1 Ek Kap Zuccy L2 Nelson Tuch Boldy L3 Freddy Trenin Foligno L4 Marat Lauko Harty

Lastly - i think last two games basically sealed Rossi's fate. 

I like option C of getting both Nelson and Tuch.  We badly need them both.  Agree Rossi is gone after his last 4-5 games against bigger teams are not what we need.  
 

We also need to try move off spurgeon for anything if we can and use that salary elsewhere to get bigger on D.  We got manhandled in front of our net last night.  Both Faber and Spurgeon looked bad last night. 

[OldDutchChip]

13 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

I like option C of getting both Nelson and Tuch.  We badly need them both.  Agree Rossi is gone after his last 4-5 games against bigger teams are not what we need.  
 

We also need to try move off spurgeon for anything if we can and use that salary elsewhere to get bigger on D.  We got manhandled in front of our net last night.  Both Faber and Spurgeon looked bad last night. 

i think regardless how we feel about spurge - he stays. i actually think he has been good for us this year, but yeah going to be hard in the playoffs for him.... Midds has been amazing. Brodin and Spurge have been good to great most nights. Faber is my disappointment on D so far. I know there will be some stats that may suggest otherwise but you see it in his game. He has not been as good as i've expected him to be.

you really hope Midds comes back and plays at the same level to stabilize the group. 

Edited 23 hours ago by OldDutchChip

[mnhockeyfan03]

6 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i think regardless how we feel about spurge - he stays. i actually think he has been good for us this year, but yeah going to be hard in the playoffs for him.... Midds has been amazing. Brodin and Spurge have been good to great most nights. Faber is my disappointment on D so far. I know there will be some stats that may suggest otherwise but you see it in his game. He has not been as good as i've expected him to be.

you really hope Midds comes back and plays at the same level to stabilize the group. 

Spurg has been better than expected this year and to me has outplayed Faber.  I sure wish they would have waited to sign Faber to that extension as he is playing like a 4-5mm dman right now. Very very average and not good against the big teams. If you watch him closely he is very jumpy and shys away and spins away from any contact. 
 

I worry if we have both Spurgeon and Faber in our top 4 d come the playoffs they are going to get stepped on like last night.  They both are just to small.  I know people don’t like it but if we could use Faber to get a stud of a 1C I am for it. The contracts will offset for cap purposes and it will sure get any GMs attention. 

[OldDutchChip]

37 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Spurg has been better than expected this year and to me has outplayed Faber.  I sure wish they would have waited to sign Faber to that extension as he is playing like a 4-5mm dman right now. Very very average and not good against the big teams. If you watch him closely he is very jumpy and shys away and spins away from any contact. 
 

I worry if we have both Spurgeon and Faber in our top 4 d come the playoffs they are going to get stepped on like last night.  They both are just to small.  I know people don’t like it but if we could use Faber to get a stud of a 1C I am for it. The contracts will offset for cap purposes and it will sure get any GMs attention. 

Faber for Bedard! 🤔

[mnhockeyfan03]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Faber for Bedard! 🤔

I would do that

[Patrick]

The Wild are elite defensively 5v5 and are getting elite goaltending 5v5. The problem is the scheme. It's incredibly stupid. Letting the best players on the planet waltz around the zone unmolested is going to result in a lot of goals against. Change it. 

[MrCheatachu]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

(c) Trade Rossi for a bigger player (i am not naming names cause i'll be screamed at by Mateo and it's too early in the day for that!) but if Rossi is traded for say Tuch, and i guess we can still trade for Nelson that would give us? L1 Ek Kap Zuccy L2 Nelson Tuch Boldy L3 Freddy Trenin Foligno L4 Marat Lauko Harty

Lastly - i think last two games basically sealed Rossi's fate. 

Interestingly enough, Russo's last Pod he walked back the 'Rossi's a goner' and seemed to believe that he has played his way into being kept around, with an extension coming after the season but prior to July 1 as that's when they'll announce the cap going up.

While Ross-Vegas seems to be in the doghouse, he also seems to have listened to the coaching and bought into what he needs to do to improve which seems to be a trait that's appreciated by this organization.  

Maybe we'll look back at this season and regret not selling high on Rossi, but I don't see how an organization who's near the top of the league in points can sell off a guy on an ELC who's producing at the rate Rossi is.

I know as MN fans we're conditioned to wait for the other shoe to fall and figure out how the team is going to disappoint us, but it's absolute lunacy to think the Wild should be selling off parts at this point in the season.

[Citizen Strife]

The Wild are getting bigger players, but they either aren't up to NHL speed yet (Ohgren and Jiricek), or aren't on the roster in some other country (Yurov).  I still think Rossi gets you consistent points, and it doesn't seem to matter what team he is against. I'd be more worried about why other players like Ek Hartman aren't nearly as productive as they were last year.  The team has one guy who scores against anyone (Kap), and 3-4 that consistently do well, but not to that level (Boldy/ Rossi/Zuccarello).

What sucks is the team as constructed is defense first, offense second.  But if they get on the PK, they have to get 1-2 extra goals and aren't playing the Evason style where they just run and gun.  Play it close, or forget it 

Also, if Tuch costs Rossi, fine.  Otherwise, I'd rather not.  

[MNCountryLife]

No Ek is definitely hurting.  He plays a physical game that is frustrating to play against.  Get him back and we don't seem so small anymore.  Without him and the top 2 lines do seem to get pushed around a bit.

[MNCountryLife]

I think players are starting to revolt against Hynes.  He keeps rolling out Nojo with his lazy/poor effort and it causes us lots of d-zone time and players get injured blocking shots and tired when they can't get shift changes.  There is a collapse coming on this team and it will continue until you get Nojo off the ice.

[Protec]

There is a lot of parity near the top. Injuries and momentum streaks make big differences for teams. MN doesn't need to panic but there's been a good sample size to evaluate and contrast your group against FL or Edmonton now as opposed to the first weeks of the season. 

[mnfaninnc]

Is all of this a reaction to the recent homestand? I think we've got the best roster construction we can put out there right now. Important players are out, larger players, and we simply don't have the depth pieces to put in there. Some of it is -$15m, some of it is the kids aren't ready yet. 

I would play the long game. Zuccarello will be gone soon, Spurgeon too. I think as soon as Jiricek is ready to take over for Spurgeon's slot, he will have to be moved. Our center depth is coming, it's not here yet, but you guys are right, hat tip to Dean, who called out our current center depth as being rough. 

I am in disagreement on size=draw wins. I would think both Rossi and Khus would have a leverage advantage, but perhaps even more strength is needed? We do miss our best draw man in Ek. I don't understand why it is so hard to find guys who can take draws and win them consistently. Certainly there is someone around who can teach them what to do and how to make a decision on what move you're going to go with?

As for Phillip's point of the article, I don't think any of us have been fooled by the atrocious PK. We've been banking points, but let's really face it, we've also been punching over our weight. But, that's what it takes to get to the playoffs. Take care of business against the ugly teams, win most of your middling games, and try to win some of the top of the league games, which we've done. 

I think we can keep 3 small players. For me, Rossi and Khus are 2/3. Spurge and Zuccy are near the end. Freddy is too small too. It's not the height, it's the strength/weight. And, with a bunch of grinders who were strong and are now in charge of player development, I find it tremendously odd that they are not stressing this part of development. It's like it's malpractice!

But, this is our team this year. We've got some holes. We have a bright future with The Wall, Yurov, Buium, and Jiricek playing significant roles coming up. My patience is waning, but these guys still aren't quite ready.  

 

[OldDutchChip]

36 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

Interestingly enough, Russo's last Pod he walked back the 'Rossi's a goner' and seemed to believe that he has played his way into being kept around, with an extension coming after the season but prior to July 1 as that's when they'll announce the cap going up.

While Ross-Vegas seems to be in the doghouse, he also seems to have listened to the coaching and bought into what he needs to do to improve which seems to be a trait that's appreciated by this organization.  

Maybe we'll look back at this season and regret not selling high on Rossi, but I don't see how an organization who's near the top of the league in points can sell off a guy on an ELC who's producing at the rate Rossi is.

I know as MN fans we're conditioned to wait for the other shoe to fall and figure out how the team is going to disappoint us, but it's absolute lunacy to think the Wild should be selling off parts at this point in the season.

agree, but one edit - we are not selling Rossi. we are using him at the highest point of his tenure to attract a possible bigger fish to compliment our team, and more importantly, our superstar better. i am against just selling Rossi to anyone. No No. You bait another GM to give up a good player. If not - just keep him i guess. For now...

[mnfaninnc]

16 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

I think players are starting to revolt against Hynes.  He keeps rolling out Nojo with his lazy/poor effort and it causes us lots of d-zone time and players get injured blocking shots and tired when they can't get shift changes.  There is a collapse coming on this team and it will continue until you get Nojo off the ice.

I disagree. I think Johansson has been far better than last year. He's hustled more, he's been way more physical, he has done a good job entering the zone and not coughing it up immediately, and he hasn't passed up shooting more. 

I don't think he's a good fit for the 2nd line, but he hasn't been awful. For a $2m/yr. player, he's been about that good.

[OldDutchChip]

31 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

The Wild are getting bigger players, but they either aren't up to NHL speed yet (Ohgren and Jiricek), or aren't on the roster in some other country (Yurov).  I still think Rossi gets you consistent points, and it doesn't seem to matter what team he is against. I'd be more worried about why other players like Ek Hartman aren't nearly as productive as they were last year.  The team has one guy who scores against anyone (Kap), and 3-4 that consistently do well, but not to that level (Boldy/ Rossi/Zuccarello).

What sucks is the team as constructed is defense first, offense second.  But if they get on the PK, they have to get 1-2 extra goals and aren't playing the Evason style where they just run and gun.  Play it close, or forget it 

Also, if Tuch costs Rossi, fine.  Otherwise, I'd rather not.  

Right - i would be against Rossi trade if it's just to trade him. If Sabres keep Tuch - fine, we keep Rossi. 

And yes - Harty has been headless chicken out there. What to do....wait for him to start taking dumb penalties or Maybe switch him and Marat? Marat is being stuck with who knows who for the last 2 - 3 weeks. I'm sure he can do no worse. 

[MrCheatachu]

3 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

agree, but one edit - we are not selling Rossi. we are using him at the highest point of his tenure to attract a possible bigger fish to compliment our team, and more importantly, our superstar better. i am against just selling Rossi to anyone. No No. You bait another GM to give up a good player. If not - just keep him i guess. For now...

Ah yes, RossVegas is on an ELC and on pace for 60ish points this season.  Do tell, what player on an ELC (the only thing we can afford without moving out additional pieces) is available who's going to be anywhere near that production?

18 minutes ago, MNCountryLife said:

I think players are starting to revolt against Hynes.  He keeps rolling out Nojo with his lazy/poor effort and it causes us lots of d-zone time and players get injured blocking shots and tired when they can't get shift changes.  There is a collapse coming on this team and it will continue until you get Nojo off the ice.

This is sure a take.  

If this is true, fire the whole damn bunch of them.  What sort of professional hockey player 'revolts' against his coach because of the who he picks to put on the ice?  That is the dumbest thing I've read on the internet in a while.

Hynes has lost the room because he keeps playing Mojo, and Mojo is lazy?

[OldDutchChip]

4 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

Ah yes, RossVegas is on an ELC and on pace for 60ish points this season.  Do tell, what player on an ELC (the only thing we can afford without moving out additional pieces) is available who's going to be anywhere near that production?

This is sure a take.  

If this is true, fire the whole damn bunch of them.  What sort of professional hockey player 'revolts' against his coach because of the who he picks to put on the ice?  That is the dumbest thing I've read on the internet in a while.

Hynes has lost the room because he keeps playing Mojo, and Mojo is lazy?

i meant Rossi can be a tempting get for some underachieving team or someone looking to reset or bunch of other reason. Rossi is on ELC and has scored 22 goals last year and is on pace to exceed this year. so why wouldn't someone consider him in a player swap? 

and as far as affording...

well there are other ways - you throw in a player or they retain salary ... there are ways - it's much better than last year

Edited 21 hours ago by OldDutchChip

[MrCheatachu]

Just now, OldDutchChip said:

i meant Rossi can be a tempting get for some underachieving team or someone looking to reset or bunch of other reason. Rossi is on ELC and has scored 22 goals last year and is on pace to exceed this year. so why wouldn't someone consider him in a player swap? 

But who?  Obviously Rossi would be a intriguing get for a number of teams in this league, but who are we getting in return that makes it make any sense for the Wild in the position they are currently in?

Just give me one example of an <23 year old on an ELC (all we can afford) that would improve the wild if we swapped for Rossi.  Give me one name, that would be a likely candidate who could come in here, and improve this team compared to what we are getting out of Rossi this season.

I can give you a list of 32 teams who would look at a player like Rossi and have a roster spot for him, but there's a much shorter (or non-existent) list of players coming back that make any sort of sense on Rossi this season prior to the TDL

[MNCountryLife]

40 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

I don't think he's a good fit for the 2nd line, but he hasn't been awful.

I will give you that he has been better than last year.  But he is still awful.  His whole MO is skating with the puck which he does a pretty good job.  But it ends there.   He rarely wins a 50/50 puck.  Usually he is out skated to the puck so the 50/50 never actually happens.  He may pester a player from behind but he rarely catches the guy and rarely steals the puck or causes a turn over.... and he turns the puck over quite often.  He doesn't belong on the ice.  His lack of pressure makes it easier for teams to establish the zone on us.

[MNCountryLife]

45 minutes ago, MrCheatachu said:

If this is true, fire the whole damn bunch of them.  What sort of professional hockey player 'revolts' against his coach because of the who he picks to put on the ice?  That is the dumbest thing I've read on the internet in a while.

Hynes has lost the room because he keeps playing Mojo, and Mojo is lazy?

Dumbest?  Dang man.  I read a few social media posts or something on politics and I'm pretty sure it lacks all sense of reality much less any common sense.  Giving me the "Dumbest thing I've read on the internet in a while" seems a bit harsh.  LOL.

Hartman made the comment last year:  "Wild were too easy to play against".  We just got thumped by the Oilers and again against Florida.   Easy goals against us on special teams.  Glimmers of this team being too easy to play against is real and happening again... why... frustration is evident.  Marcus' style of play makes it easier for teams to move into our d-zone and cycle.  He is making us "Easy to play against".  At least that is my dumb opinion.