Article: Is Marco Rossi A Better Fit On the First Line?

[mnfaninnc]

If you were a team offersheeting Rossi, what would you offer?

$6.8xxm-$9.1xxm is a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd rounder. Who would offer something in that area? Is this the type of compensation that we'd like to get in return, or would we want something a little closer to ready?

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, mnfaninnc said:

Well, I think it's more because Ottawa's GM Staios said it and with conviction. According to those reporting on it, they believe Tkachuk will play out his contract in Ottawa. I think he has a designation too. 

Now, what does Staios do if Tkachuk publicly asks out? Matthew did this in Calgary who also did not want to trade him. If Tkachuk says he won't resign with Ottawa, it seems like that is the time he will be available, but we're looking at about 2.5 seasons down the road. 

I think Brady would be awesome here, I just don't think we can pry him loose...unless someone gets in his ear during the 4 nations tourney!!!!!!!

He has to say it for the public

thats how things work

theres Pressure to win, he will listen to fair offers

Brady is in place, trust in ODC

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

If you were a team offersheeting Rossi, what would you offer?

$6.8xxm-$9.1xxm is a 1st, 2nd, & 3rd rounder. Who would offer something in that area? Is this the type of compensation that we'd like to get in return, or would we want something a little closer to ready?

Rossi Zeev pick, salary retention and likely other for BT

no prospects back

[mnfaninnc]

Just now, OldDutchChip said:

He has to say it for the public

thats how things work

theres Pressure to win, he will listen to fair offers

Brady is in place, trust in ODC

I've wanted him since the rumors of Brady being sick of losing popped up this offseason. If I were Staios I wouldn't trade him either, and that's with a king's ransom. If Brady's in play, Shooter better be in.

[mnfaninnc]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Rossi Zeev pick, salary retention and likely other for BT

no prospects back

I would be sending over the paperwork and getting physicals lined up.

[Citizen Strife]

That's the thing you don't realize: we DON"T have the chance.  A good early season rush is nice.  That's all it is.  Fletcher and Leipold were absolutely convinced every single year that the Wild were contenders.  They fucked up the future banking on a cup that didn't materialize because the team wasn't anywhere close to good enough.  I'm not and won't be convinced of taking risks until I see the Wild comfortably beat Dallas or Colorado, or etc.  It never mattered what the Wild put in front of those teams.  They would lose.

That isn't defeatist.  That's reality.  Giving away 60-70 pt players on a whim because some other guy on some other team MIGHT be a better fit doesn't solve that you just sold a 70 pt 23 year old down the river.

All I'm saying is let's see what that 70 pt player has playing actual playoff games and see if the team as constructed gets through that gauntlet the old teams couldn't.  If he doesn't, you can still cut bait and sign someone else.  Trading 3-5 years because "he small and won't win hypothetical games" won't cut it.

Give me a team that has won a playoff series or two, and then I'm willing to take the Fletcher approach.  The team still has holes.  Blowing holes in the backend to frontload is just asking for trouble.  Tell me how Toronto has done.  So excuse me for trusting that Rossi kicked open his door and will continue to do so.  You can pay Kap, Rossi, and probably still have room for another top 6 guy.  Hell, maybe Yurov just walks in and gives you that for free.  Buium or Jiricek gets you extra darts to find Top 4 or even Top 2 guys, for free.

Sorry if I'm convinced going whole hog too early is a dumb move.  I'd rather pay the people successful with our team, rather than Stamkos, Skjei, and Marchessault the team up shit creek.  Guerin is trying to drip feed players that succeed.  Looks like Faber, Rossi, and Boldy worked out well enough.  Why be in a hurry to get rid of more of those drip feeds?

Edited December 13, 2024 by Citizen Strife

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

I could easily see him signing something for 6.5 mil and the cap is suppose to go up

I’ll give you this one. I’d be very happy if we can get him for 3yrs@$6.5M.  Fair for both sides. 
 

re:no offer sheet for Rossi. You’re dead wrong.  He was unproven still at beginning of year.  He’s shown the league this year that he’s worth taking a chance on (aka offer sheet)

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

look at standing in the east - Billy is planning something

Pewter's Christmas list in a Rossi Trade (includes us sending picks):

1) Koneckny (PHI)

2) Marner? TOR

3) Kairu or Thomas STL

4)Bratt NYJ (never happen but it is Christmas, so you're saying there's a chance)

This is Operation: get 97 a running mate so he re-signs

Edited December 13, 2024 by Pewterschmidt

[Pewterschmidt]

44 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

That's the thing you don't realize: we DON"T have the chance.  A good early season rush is nice.  That's all it is.  Fletcher and Leipold were absolutely convinced every single year that the Wild were contenders.  They fucked up the future banking on a cup that didn't materialize because the team wasn't anywhere close to good enough.  I'm not and won't be convinced of taking risks until I see the Wild comfortably beat Dallas or Colorado, or etc.  It never mattered what the Wild put in front of those teams.  They would lose.

That isn't defeatist.  That's reality.  Giving away 60-70 pt players on a whim because some other guy on some other team MIGHT be a better fit doesn't solve that you just sold a 70 pt 23 year old down the river.

All I'm saying is let's see what that 70 pt player has playing actual playoff games and see if the team as constructed gets through that gauntlet the old teams couldn't.  If he doesn't, you can still cut bait and sign someone else.  Trading 3-5 years because "he small and won't win hypothetical games" won't cut it.

Give me a team that has won a playoff series or two, and then I'm willing to take the Fletcher approach.  The team still has holes.  Blowing holes in the backend to frontload is just asking for trouble.  Tell me how Toronto has done.  So excuse me for trusting that Rossi kicked open his door and will continue to do so.  You can pay Kap, Rossi, and probably still have room for another top 6 guy.  Hell, maybe Yurov just walks in and gives you that for free.  Buium or Jiricek gets you extra darts to find Top 4 or even Top 2 guys, for free.

Sorry if I'm convinced going whole hog too early is a dumb move.  I'd rather pay the people successful with our team, rather than Stamkos, Skjei, and Marchessault the team up shit creek.  Guerin is trying to drip feed players that succeed.  Looks like Faber, Rossi, and Boldy worked out well enough.  Why be in a hurry to get rid of more of those drip feeds?

PREACH!!  I thought I had you pegged as a we're ready to make a run this year "guy".  Full chearleader mode guy.  Ok, bro-chella I think we're on same page re next couple years.  And if i heard you right we both like Rossi at the right price (and howTF does he go from ELC to $7M+).  But P-Blitzen Boldy did it.  He ain't Boldy...yet.  Boldy made it clear early he was real deal.  R-D'vark is slow rolling his coming out party.  

[Pewterschmidt]

30 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I’d be very happy if we can get him for 3yrs@$6.5M.  Fair for both sides. 

Compare that to 4 years @ $3.5M for The Yak and you can see that Rossi's agent would be fired for malpractice if he let his client sign for that.  

We're in the $7's with Rossi

[Citizen Strife]

I don't know if I've ever come across as the "this is their year" guy.  I'm positive and optimistic, but it comes with a tinge of pragmatism.  

The Wild taught me in the Fletcher days that you can't build off a leaky foundation.  Buying your way to a championship or trading away for the "big name guys" doesn't always work.  It also says, "Well, this pretty dang good 60-80 point guy COULD be something,, but nah.  That shiny car over there would do wonders for us."  Or, the infamous Hanzal trade.  Or many many other trades the Fletcher era did.  They didn't have the team balance to compete, or they got beat anyway if they did (Staal being a hell of a bargin).

I've been one of the people to look at Guerin's situation and think, "Well, what is he doing "right" instead of focusing on what he's doing wrong.  But even if most of his scenarios played out perfectly, I've never said, "Oh, strike now, do it now, go for it."

Any number of things could go wrong.  Any number of players could or would help.  But what seems to be forgotten is Vegas was pretty much gifted a good team from the off, and THEN went after Eichel.  They had a couple years of playoff runs and were consistently 2nd round or whatever.  Toronto can spend $55m on the four best forwards all they want.  Still doesn't win them shit.  Edmonton 20 years ago and Buffalo 10 years ago would get gifted 1st rounders for days.  Didn't get them shit.

What seems to be lost is that Guerin's approach is building a strong player base with a floor now.  He refused to tank, or wasn't allowed to.  So, he used what veteran players he had to keep the Rossis, Fabers, Boldys, etc to a minimum.  The players that rise to the top do, and those who don't wait their turn or blossom later.  Guerin still has so many options left to play, because he wasn't dumb enough to just trade them all away or splash them all onto the team at once, sink or swim.

The Wild still need 1-2 consistent scorers and maybe a bit more size or snarl (not much but some).  They need to contend with Brodin and Spurgeon being older guys, and find those guys.  But what then?  You still need guys coming after who can be that 4th year, 5th year guy who may even replace THEM!

Guerin's tightrope is kinda working now.  Faster than it had any right to.  If Rossi costs you $7m, you do it.  You get a failsafe 1st/2nd line center at 60-70 pts who may or may not get you 70-80 the next year.  He's still a few years off his prime.  But what if Yurov or Zeev are better than Rossi or Faber?  Figure out ways to pay them too.  Someone spent time finding ways to sign everyone that matters, while still being able to chip away at the Johanssons, the Hartmans, the Zuccarellos, the Spurgeons as they age out.  Rossi, Boldy, and Faber are just the start.  I'd like to have Ohgren, or Yurov, or Zeev be that next budding star.  I'd rather pay them for being the one who carry the team forward.  Then, if I have seen that 2nd or 3rd round success for once...THEN go for it.  I just want some sort of crash pad to break the team's fall if they fuck up.

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

I would be sending over the paperwork and getting physicals lined up.

You and I both

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Citizen Strife said:

That's the thing you don't realize: we DON"T have the chance.  A good early season rush is nice.  That's all it is.  Fletcher and Leipold were absolutely convinced every single year that the Wild were contenders.  They fucked up the future banking on a cup that didn't materialize because the team wasn't anywhere close to good enough.  I'm not and won't be convinced of taking risks until I see the Wild comfortably beat Dallas or Colorado, or etc.  It never mattered what the Wild put in front of those teams.  They would lose.

That isn't defeatist.  That's reality.  Giving away 60-70 pt players on a whim because some other guy on some other team MIGHT be a better fit doesn't solve that you just sold a 70 pt 23 year old down the river.

All I'm saying is let's see what that 70 pt player has playing actual playoff games and see if the team as constructed gets through that gauntlet the old teams couldn't.  If he doesn't, you can still cut bait and sign someone else.  Trading 3-5 years because "he small and won't win hypothetical games" won't cut it.

Give me a team that has won a playoff series or two, and then I'm willing to take the Fletcher approach.  The team still has holes.  Blowing holes in the backend to frontload is just asking for trouble.  Tell me how Toronto has done.  So excuse me for trusting that Rossi kicked open his door and will continue to do so.  You can pay Kap, Rossi, and probably still have room for another top 6 guy.  Hell, maybe Yurov just walks in and gives you that for free.  Buium or Jiricek gets you extra darts to find Top 4 or even Top 2 guys, for free.

Sorry if I'm convinced going whole hog too early is a dumb move.  I'd rather pay the people successful with our team, rather than Stamkos, Skjei, and Marchessault the team up shit creek.  Guerin is trying to drip feed players that succeed.  Looks like Faber, Rossi, and Boldy worked out well enough.  Why be in a hurry to get rid of more of those drip feeds?

One of the best goalie in the league? Yes

best player in the league? Yes

one of the best shutdown D core? Yes

Why fold? You realize we play it safe, that means Kap likely walks! You think zero success in playoffs for 6 years means he’ll be okay signing off on his prime years? Without a chance to go where HE wants to? 
 

you go for it, cause next year Gus could be last years Gus, and we could be again building for future….. but future without Kap

 

[Pewterschmidt]

Another missed opportunity for Ben Jones.

Are there no happy endings with BJ?

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Pewter's Christmas list in a Rossi Trade (includes us sending picks):

1) Koneckny (PHI)

2) Marner? TOR

3) Kairu or Thomas STL

4)Bratt NYJ (never happen but it is Christmas, so you're saying there's a chance)

This is Operation: get 97 a running mate so he re-signs

Plus Tkachuk, Randy,  maybe check on Forsberg? 

[Pewterschmidt]

Lauk's wins his fight with Authority.  Emerson returning??

I see you grape smuggler.  I see you.

[OldDutchChip]

30 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

I don't know if I've ever come across as the "this is their year" guy.  I'm positive and optimistic, but it comes with a tinge of pragmatism.  

The Wild taught me in the Fletcher days that you can't build off a leaky foundation.  Buying your way to a championship or trading away for the "big name guys" doesn't always work.  It also says, "Well, this pretty dang good 60-80 point guy COULD be something,, but nah.  That shiny car over there would do wonders for us."  Or, the infamous Hanzal trade.  Or many many other trades the Fletcher era did.  They didn't have the team balance to compete, or they got beat anyway if they did (Staal being a hell of a bargin).

I've been one of the people to look at Guerin's situation and think, "Well, what is he doing "right" instead of focusing on what he's doing wrong.  But even if most of his scenarios played out perfectly, I've never said, "Oh, strike now, do it now, go for it."

Any number of things could go wrong.  Any number of players could or would help.  But what seems to be forgotten is Vegas was pretty much gifted a good team from the off, and THEN went after Eichel.  They had a couple years of playoff runs and were consistently 2nd round or whatever.  Toronto can spend $55m on the four best forwards all they want.  Still doesn't win them shit.  Edmonton 20 years ago and Buffalo 10 years ago would get gifted 1st rounders for days.  Didn't get them shit.

What seems to be lost is that Guerin's approach is building a strong player base with a floor now.  He refused to tank, or wasn't allowed to.  So, he used what veteran players he had to keep the Rossis, Fabers, Boldys, etc to a minimum.  The players that rise to the top do, and those who don't wait their turn or blossom later.  Guerin still has so many options left to play, because he wasn't dumb enough to just trade them all away or splash them all onto the team at once, sink or swim.

The Wild still need 1-2 consistent scorers and maybe a bit more size or snarl (not much but some).  They need to contend with Brodin and Spurgeon being older guys, and find those guys.  But what then?  You still need guys coming after who can be that 4th year, 5th year guy who may even replace THEM!

Guerin's tightrope is kinda working now.  Faster than it had any right to.  If Rossi costs you $7m, you do it.  You get a failsafe 1st/2nd line center at 60-70 pts who may or may not get you 70-80 the next year.  He's still a few years off his prime.  But what if Yurov or Zeev are better than Rossi or Faber?  Figure out ways to pay them too.  Someone spent time finding ways to sign everyone that matters, while still being able to chip away at the Johanssons, the Hartmans, the Zuccarellos, the Spurgeons as they age out.  Rossi, Boldy, and Faber are just the start.  I'd like to have Ohgren, or Yurov, or Zeev be that next budding star.  I'd rather pay them for being the one who carry the team forward.  Then, if I have seen that 2nd or 3rd round success for once...THEN go for it.  I just want some sort of crash pad to break the team's fall if they fuck up.

Vegas took aggressive approach not just with Eichel

pacciorety

stone

petrangelo

while we are afraid to make ONE move

And then we wonder why MN is always out of it. It’s cause we are afraid to go for it!
fine, be afraid and wait for that one chance that will sure to not disappoint 

I hope Billy has bigger balls than you

 

[Citizen Strife]

Minnesota threw their big balls in with Parise and Suter.  Tell me how THAT turned out.

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Minnesota threw their big balls in with Parise and Suter.  Tell me how THAT turned out.

No more 13 year contracts to players from MN or WI, good?

[RedLake]

Package Rossi, Yurov, and a 1st for Brady. Rossi will get rag-dolled and spit on in the playoffs.

[Mateo3xm]

13 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

I’ll give you this one. I’d be very happy if we can get him for 3yrs@$6.5M.  Fair for both sides. 
 

re:no offer sheet for Rossi. You’re dead wrong.  He was unproven still at beginning of year.  He’s shown the league this year that he’s worth taking a chance on (aka offer sheet)

Teams don’t want a small center. Him being small is a reason he’s not highly sought after even though he’s a great player. I’d  almost be willing to bet nobody offer sheets him.

[FredJohnson]

MAYBE...Rossi is waiting for a Kaprisov extension before he negotiates his own. Yore thots?

[FredJohnson]

4 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

Teams don’t want a small center. Him being small is a reason he’s not highly sought after even though he’s a great player. I’d  almost be willing to bet nobody offer sheets him.

Kap is one inch taller.

But Kap is 20 pounds heavier (according to what's published).

[MNCountryLife]

Edmonton just bitch slapped us into next week.  Want to know how we stack up against Edmonton when Ek and Brodin are out of the line up.  We don't.  

[FredJohnson]

8 hours ago, RedLake said:

Package Rossi, Yurov, and a 1st for Brady. Rossi will get rag-dolled and spit on in the playoffs.

Tom plays hockey, too?? What can't the dude do?