Article: Liam Ohgren Is Showing Us the Difference Between A Good Prospect and A Great One

[Protec]

I've got it!!!

Somebody get Hossa's elbow-pads and sneak em into NoJo's bag on the road. "Oops, gotta wear em."

#90 gets career-ending skin-itch and the Wild are forced to get a new L2 winger. 

😀

[Pewterschmidt]

3 hours ago, Protec said:

Apparently Hunt, Milne, and Ogie, have gone back to IA. It was perhaps some kind-of switcheroo with some coming up, and few going down. Okay...

I gotta think ogzy stays in Iowa for next month or two.  Let the journeyman make the trips back and forth while ogzy gains confidence and develops his game in the A.  
 

didn’t see much from Mikey so not surprised he’s back in Iowa. 
bring on BJ and Eddie Shore 

#oldtimehockey

[Pewterschmidt]

12 hours ago, Protec said:

Dallas just dropped one to Anaheim. 

MN needs to get healthy and get some depth production. 

Make a play for a scorer at the deadline.

I watched this last night.  Ottenger was not in net, but that wasn't really the reason they lost.  ANA outplayed DAL badly.  Maybe DAL was coming off a road trip or something but they didn't look like the DAL we played

[Citizen Strife]

Russo and LaPanta talk Rossi again, and LaPanta hints that Hynes isn't really sold on Rossi being physical or defensively sound.  Oh goodie.  It'll never end.

Edited November 19 by Citizen Strife

[raithis]

5 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Russo and LaPanta talk Rossi again, and LaPanta hints that Hynes isn't really sold on Rossi being physical or defensively sound.  Oh goodie.  It'll never end.

I think he tries.  He definitely puts in an effort, but I think he just doesn't quick stand up to the trees by the paint well enough.  I still firmly think that long-term Rossi will be a really good player, but as a winger.  I give him all the credit he deserves for trying, but I think he loses a lot of effectivity getting pushed around so much.  He spends more time trying to stay balanced than demonstrating the skill he has.

I'd like to see him in Zuccarello's spot on the power play while Zuccarello is out.  He's got enough skill to fill in for him and do a lot of the same things.  He just needs a bit more space to do them.

I'm also not opposed to trading Rossi at some point, but I'd want someone no older than 25/26 who is either on a decent contract with a couple more years on it or is willing to sign up for more years.  They'd also have to be comparable in production and a little bigger.  There's no way Ottawa makes that trade for Tkachuk, and anyone who thinks they take on anyone but a star player is fooling themselves.  They aren't trading their cornerstone unless they go full rebuild or they get another cornerstone in return - players I wouldn't trade at all.

I do think we can improve on Rossi, but I'm not sure who that is.  What I have seen is a lot of wishful thinking and assumptions that other team's don't know the value of their players.  Our best bet at getting a star offensive player without cratering the team is finding a team in a rebuild situation who wants what we have in abundance - picks and prospects.  We can stand to part with a few, though if still say Buium, Wallstedt, and Yurov are off limits.

[Protec]

12 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Russo and LaPanta talk Rossi again, and LaPanta hints that Hynes isn't really sold on Rossi being physical or defensively sound.  Oh goodie.  It'll never end.

Well if Rossi is against Bennett or Barkov, he's got a point. 

Rossi has good games but he has no impact games too. Why? Is he built for playoffs physically, or does he play a nasty game. No, he's an undersized Euro skill guy. Will he be scoring goals much in playoff games when all the players are backchecking their ass off and 3v2s are a rarity? 

Can Rossi or Spurgeon for that matter stop Marchment from getting to the net? I think they're saying eventually it comes down to those battles. They want more than an Ek/Rossi combo punch at center. It seems quite pragmatic and reasonable to me. 

[Citizen Strife]

What I don't get is why draft a guy who plays like Rossi does if you want him to play a different style?  He's an offensive minded center who plays hard, but won't be the first choice to be the uber defensive stopgap.  It just seems like he's unfairly maligned a lot like Fiala was.

There always has to be that one guy.

Edited November 19 by Citizen Strife

[Citizen Strife]

Add on to my point, something tells me Hynes won't like that Rossi caused a penalty or two against Montreal.  Even getting that PP goal later pretty much by himself wouldn't be enough to overlook that.

[Protec]

7 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

What I don't get is why draft a guy who plays like Rossi does if you want him to play a different style?  He's an offensive minded center who plays hard, but won't be the first choice to be the uber defensive stopgap.  It just seems like he's unfairly maligned a lot like Fiala was.

There always has to be that one guy.

Rossi was a best player available situation trap. Skill and scoring over-trumped the Wild's likely plan to select Lundell or Mercer. Now BPA method isn't bad necessarily cause you can trade the valuable guy later but MN missed at that time a chance to get the center who would have replaced Koivu with a new Koivu type guy.

The creation of this situation in my opinion was sorta a fluke and sideways development. Not big hard blame on anybody, just how it goes sometimes. Now the Wild are looking at Rossi becoming what we hoped but it's 4-5 years later and what the Wild need is more of a Lundell or perhaps Frederic type guy. Here's the near Thanksgiving picture of who's in a playoff position. Might be some players becoming available sooner than later.

[Pewterschmidt]

13 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

What I don't get is why draft a guy who plays like Rossi does if you want him to play a different style? 

Now you're asking the right questions.  Did Guerin & Co. think he was going to be a 60 pt guy from day 1 and increase every season thereafter??  And they're disappointed he's not there yet??

Russo and the Panther led me to believe Wild mgmt isn't happy with his defensive assignments, more so than they're happy about the offense he's creating.  This much is evident with Hynzinator's in-game demotions recently.

But Pewter, Rossi reacts by scoring...maybe (Rossi + Hynzy) = (Fiala + Evason)

Rossi has proven to be a good soldier but I don't think that's enough to keep him around, unless his market value is less than Wild brass thinks it is.

[Citizen Strife]

I've never said Rossi is untradeable.  What my concern has been is why is it "Yurov or Rossi, not both?"  Even if Yurov ends up a better overall player, Rossi being a 2nd or 3rd line winger or center shouldn't be discounted if there's not an amazing market.  You can sign Rossi for lower money or less term if you're not content with his defensive skillset.  Cutting bait comes with a risk of saying, "Well, Hartman's just as good, and hard nosed to boot."

Yeah, and 10 years older.  Yurov and Heidt are unproven, Khusnutdinov is a defense-only guy, and Hartman and Gaudreau are old.

[Protec]

7 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Add on to my point, something tells me Hynes won't like that Rossi caused a penalty or two against Montreal.  Even getting that PP goal later pretty much by himself wouldn't be enough to overlook that.

Maybe, but I don't think it's personal at all. The Wild could keep Rossi in another role or down the lineup but top center for a player who intrinsically is a skill & finesse guy isn't really a fit. Not another Ek or Koivu replacement who can be a shutdown center AND chip in 40pts plus as an aside. Rossi is the 40pt guy who as an aside TRIES to defend against powerful NA players.

It's not really a criticism, but if you need a hammer, you don't use a screwdriver.

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Protec said:

It's not really a criticism, but if you need a hammer, you don't use a screwdriver.

or a Swiss Army Knife

...I need to be better and I will try.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

2 hours ago, Protec said:

Maybe, but I don't think it's personal at all. The Wild could keep Rossi in another role or down the lineup but top center for a player who intrinsically is a skill & finesse guy isn't really a fit. Not another Ek or Koivu replacement who can be a shutdown center AND chip in 40pts plus as an aside. Rossi is the 40pt guy who as an aside TRIES to defend against powerful NA players.

It's not really a criticism, but if you need a hammer, you don't use a screwdriver.

Then put him in a position to succeed. Isn't it on the coach? Why haven't we tried him at wing if they aren't happy with his defensive play? FFS why is Nojo getting second line wing minutes, while Rossi is relegated to third line duty on a checking line? Rossi is the tool and the coaching staff are picking what to use for the job. Hell, I see more glaring issues with Zucc's defensive play than Rossi's yet Hynes seems fine with that.

I hear what you guys are saying and agree. He will never grow 6" and put on 50lbs to be a power forward. Then why are we expecting him to fill that role? Why not set him on a wing with Bolds or Zucc opposite and let him be that secondary scoring we have been crying about for years. He clearly has the skill to put up numbers, regardless of who is on his line. He has been an asset to this team and will continue to be. Quit trying to put a square peg in a round hole and use his strengths as they are. Trading our top prospects or many NHL players for one is not the answer for the long term. Draft capital is meant to be spent in situations like this, but we need to get the dead weight out of the lineup first. 

[Protec]

I'm 100% with you guys on some I'd the coaching decisions. Rossi is unique cause like a Caufield has great qualities. He's gonna need a raise and he's not really the type of 2C/1C you need in the Central. He doesn't have MacKinnon-McDavid-McSpeed.  speed, and he's a smaller defender. That's a tough break cause Rossi belongs In an NHL top six. MN needs Zuccy to retire and play Rossi at wing or just trade him so we can all move on. For Farabee straight up this off season maybe but that would definitely be a sideways move. 

[Will D. Ness]

59 minutes ago, Protec said:

MN needs Zuccy to retire and play Rossi at wing

Well Rossi is at least two years of development away from being on Zuccy's level anyways if he is lucky.   Zucc would be a good benchmark for Rossi.  I like it.

[mnfaninnc]

On 11/18/2024 at 2:10 PM, Justin Hein said:

he'll probably produce as much as these guys did in spite of lesser foot speed.

I think his footspeed is greater than Granny's was, probably more than Nino too.

[Burnt Toast]

On 11/19/2024 at 8:05 AM, OldDutchChip said:

3 years is plenty of time for something to go wrong....

The 2027 plan includes depth which will help tremendously especially come playoff time. This year is an example of a step in that direction. Last nites game against Edmonton is an example of a team getting exploited with just one high end line. Edmonton coach even broke up their dynamic duo in a 5-3 loss. They had 4 injured players. I think BG and OCL will push all the chips in at some point. Not sure when. The owner appears to be getting impatient IMO. Nashville is an example of a team pushing the chips in prematurely. 

[OldDutchChip]

37 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

The 2027 plan includes depth which will help tremendously especially come playoff time. This year is an example of a step in that direction. Last nites game against Edmonton is an example of a team getting exploited with just one high end line. Edmonton coach even broke up their dynamic duo in a 5-3 loss. They had 4 injured players. I think BG and OCL will push all the chips in at some point. Not sure when. The owner appears to be getting impatient IMO. Nashville is an example of a team pushing the chips in prematurely. 

i understand, but nashville's core is also much older than ours and they doubled down on that and i guess decided that old geezers need more old geezers....

with our current core - it's much different. kaprizov and ek are in their prime. boldy i believe has entered his. goalie situation is somewhat stable with Gus (and likely only Gus...) and our D is playing amazing - really amazing. Brodin and Spurge are aging too, so waiting 3 years may be a bit of risk there, unless you feel Zeev can come in and offer the same. 

i guess i just don't think a team should pass up the opportunity as this seems like a good year to go for it. 

i also feel that yesterday's game was Rossi's worse game. Might be the decided game for what the Wild will do. 

Edited November 22 by OldDutchChip

[Pewterschmidt]

Nice total team win by our boys.  I'm beginning to believe our hot start is not a mirage, and that Hynzy gets the credit for turning the same group of players into a different team vs last year.

Now on to our favorite lumber wagon.  He is the Pee Wee who's 5 inches taller than the other 13 year old and he belongs on a B2 team but the coach likes his size so he picks him for B1 and the parents are forced to watch this over matched player fight their way thru an entire season.

Lumber Wagon drinking game: drink every time he falls to the ice.  Drink double when he falls backwards onto his butt.  stock up party people!

[Protec]

25 minutes ago, Burnt Toast said:

The 2027 plan includes depth which will help tremendously especially come playoff time. This year is an example of a step in that direction. Last nites game against Edmonton is an example of a team getting exploited with just one high end line. Edmonton coach even broke up their dynamic duo in a 5-3 loss. They had 4 injured players. I think BG and OCL will push all the chips in at some point. Not sure when. The owner appears to be getting impatient IMO. Nashville is an example of a team pushing the chips in prematurely. 

Nashville is an interesting case. I'm not certain they made a huge blunder with their signings. They're a good team on paper but the problems they've had aren't unlike the Wild's problems last season. I think Nashville will bounce back eventually. STL has lost the team synergy they had and Utah has yet to put things together. MN, Dallas, and Winnipeg have some things in common. 2+ standout scoring threats, great goaltending, depth, and solid defense. Colorado is creeping up too.

MN will really want to maintain a top spot if they want a nice playoff position to play a weaker team round one. It's a long way off but a huge grind. Winning the Cup means beating or avoiding the other best teams in the NHL who are also in the Central. MN will have to stay healthy and find ways to get better than they've been to this point. It looks good so far but it seems like there is a missing piece to round out the roster ahead of the deadline.

Calgary will be a good challenge. Mnfaninnc's guy Zary will be out there coming off a GWG against NYR. MN will need to play another good road game.