Article: Liam Ohgren Is Showing Us the Difference Between A Good Prospect and A Great One

[Pewterschmidt]

4 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Golyshev, Grebyonkin, Marat K (our up-and-comer yes), Prokhorkin, Ivantsov

I thought you were quoting the Swedish chef from the muppets 

[OldDutchChip]

15 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Yeah! look at Nashville this year. They pushed all there chips in for free agency and are now.....6-10-3.

But hold on, what about the leafs in 2023? They swung big with Max Domi, Klingberg and Bertuzzi. Oh right, they flamed out in the first round.

We aren't running out of road and the end of this year we will finally be able to untie one hand from behind our back with the cap hits. Just because you go big in free agency doesn't mean you come home with the cup. Truth is, we don't have the team to go deep this year, even with the addition of some TDL pickups(with what money, who the heck knows). Our prospects have yet to develop in the NHL capacity and any of them other than Rossi we would be selling low on instead of possibly getting a top 6 guy on an ELC. With the NMC and NTC's we have there are very few we can move easily, some of which will be expiring next year before we *possibly* lose Kap. 

I like the angle of spending on July 1st after we see if we can lock up Kap to an extension. We can't spend money that needs to be allocated to him. Rossi is still an RFA and you can take him to arbitration to keep his hit lower. We "lose" Merrill and Mojo and get some room to move around. Declan, Lauko and Khus will be reasonable contracts. We could get to see what Buium and Yurov look like and have a better idea of what we will be getting and what kind of track that Ohgren and Milne are on. Unless one of the injuries we currently have ends up being a long term issue I don't see much of value on offer for the TDL. That could change, I am just referring to the upcoming UFA's

Yeah! look at Nashville this year. They pushed all there chips in for free agency and are now.....6-10-3. Well Stamkos will be 35 in couple of months and his best days are behind him.....I am suggesting Tuch and Tkachuk - whose best days are still ahead of them. Why not add Vegas to the list instead? Their plan succeeded. 

But hold on, what about the leafs in 2023? They swung big with Max Domi, Klingberg and Bertuzzi. Oh right, they flamed out in the first round. I wouldn't call that going for it. We all seen Klingberg play and Domi and Bertuzzi are not Tkachuks. 

I like the angle of spending on July 1st after we see if we can lock up Kap to an extension. Patience then....so you are with status quo approach .... and what if Kap says on Jul 1 "thanks but i'll will evaluate all my option the following year"....what then? that is exactly what he'll say IF we don't change his mind this year. we've had this convo before. That's my gut feeling. We stay pat - Kap does not sign Jul1 and we are done. Zuccy will leave. Kap will leave. But we will have our prospects. We will always have our prospects. OTHER Teams will win. But MN teams will always have hope for next year. hahaha

Edited November 18 by OldDutchChip

[FredJohnson]

1 hour ago, Enforceror said:

Is that Nojo?

I wouldn't expect that much out of him.😞

[FredJohnson]

1 hour ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Here we go

NoJo is.

[Enforceror]

1 hour ago, FredJohnson said:

NoJo is.

 

Zone entry time!!!

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

Patience then....so you are with status quo approach .... and what if Kap says on Jul 1 "thanks but i'll will evaluate all my option the following year"....what then?

Well not sure what else we can do when we have very little money available at the deadline. Even is we send Nojo, Trenin Rossi and Yurov we still can't afford Tkachuk this year lol. Then we still need to backfill those spots. Just bring up AHLers and one player is going to make up for losing 3 starting players? If we can make it into the second round this year it proves we are serious and with the additions to come in free agency I think Kap will want to stick around. So far we have been playing well, and could possibly make it there with our current crew.

I think Yurov and Rossi together will be far superior to what we get out of Tkachuk. No shade on Tkachuk, you are just willing to send a 23 yr old who is still developing and our 2nd best prospect. Those are tall shoes to fill. I get Tkachuk lines up better timeline wise, but it will also gut our up and coming players.

And yes, much like you, I can cherry pick situations to illustrate my point.  

[Citizen Strife]

Russo is reporting that Kap/Ek/Boldy are reuniting tomorrow.  Rossi will center Mojo and Hartman.

[Protec]

Saw this on the NHL website! Since I've been slacking on the NoJo-Rips, I figured I could throw in a "One of Us" snips... 😆

[Dango]

I still think we can grab a cheaper option in FA to add to the team or maybe a lower level trade , wish we could have got Oreilly the guy just plays hard .  a guy like that would be perfect for the top 6 . 

[OldDutchChip]

2 hours ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Well not sure what else we can do when we have very little money available at the deadline. Even is we send Nojo, Trenin Rossi and Yurov we still can't afford Tkachuk this year lol. Then we still need to backfill those spots. Just bring up AHLers and one player is going to make up for losing 3 starting players? If we can make it into the second round this year it proves we are serious and with the additions to come in free agency I think Kap will want to stick around. So far we have been playing well, and could possibly make it there with our current crew.

I think Yurov and Rossi together will be far superior to what we get out of Tkachuk. No shade on Tkachuk, you are just willing to send a 23 yr old who is still developing and our 2nd best prospect. Those are tall shoes to fill. I get Tkachuk lines up better timeline wise, but it will also gut our up and coming players.

And yes, much like you, I can cherry pick situations to illustrate my point.  

No shade on Tkachuk, you are just willing to send a 23 yr old who is still developing and our 2nd best prospect. yes, i am. nothing is guaranteed with a prospect. and i would ship rossi and him immediately if that would do it for Tkachuk, a player in his prime, coming out of 37 goal season and is projected to approach close to 100 pts this year.

not sure what cherry picking you referring to, but i believe we can fit in Tkachuk's salary if need be. And you don't think Kap, Zuccy, Tkachuk, Boldy and Ek can carry this team further than unproved Rookie and Rossi? silly. look what his brother just did to FL. 

[Citizen Strife]

Rossi's already earmarked as a 50 pt player or more, and Yurov might do even more.  Ohgren (hopefully) nets the 30-40 range on the back end, and you get most or all of them for cheap.  You also have to consider that Nyquist at 35 years old got what, 75 points (a personal record) for chump change just by being put in the right scenario?  Even if he doesn't do that again, his contract makes it a moot point due to how fucking cheap it is.  You don't have to be the biggest, baddest bitch on the ice to score.  Aren't people always saying that Kap makes people around him better?  Then surely it's not really necessary to pawn off a lot of money when you could, "oh, I don't know, " see the Kap and Boldy line again and replicate results.  The team gets younger and younger too.  Another byproduct of letting younger guys play their way up and throw older guys out.  You want a Johansson replacement?  Yurov gets you that for free, if he'd decide to actually fucking move here.

You can get production without breaking the bank on a flashy name.  Kaprizov, Faber, and Boldy should be the only people we need to break the bank for, unless someone like Yurov or Buium do it.  But by all means.  Keep risking sustained futures on a plan that sounds risky at best and potentially crippling at worst.  Waiting a year to see if Buium or Yurov mean something doesn't kill the "break free agency glass in case of emergency" scenario.  Delay it and weigh the options.

[OldDutchChip]

6 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Rossi's already earmarked as a 50 pt player or more, and Yurov might do even more.  Ohgren (hopefully) nets the 30-40 range on the back end, and you get most or all of them for cheap.  You also have to consider that Nyquist at 35 years old got what, 75 points (a personal record) for chump change just by being put in the right scenario?  Even if he doesn't do that again, his contract makes it a moot point due to how fucking cheap it is.  You don't have to be the biggest, baddest bitch on the ice to score.  Aren't people always saying that Kap makes people around him better?  Then surely it's not really necessary to pawn off a lot of money when you could, "oh, I don't know, " see the Kap and Boldy line again and replicate results.  The team gets younger and younger too.  Another byproduct of letting younger guys play their way up and throw older guys out.  You want a Johansson replacement?  Yurov gets you that for free, if he'd decide to actually fucking move here.

You can get production without breaking the bank on a flashy name.  Kaprizov, Faber, and Boldy should be the only people we need to break the bank for, unless someone like Yurov or Buium do it.  But by all means.  Keep risking sustained futures on a plan that sounds risky at best and potentially crippling at worst.  Waiting a year to see if Buium or Yurov mean something doesn't kill the "break free agency glass in case of emergency" scenario.  Delay it and weigh the options.

Yurov may not even be playing for us next year! Stop assuming prospects turn out as best case scenario. Be happy if he gets here and assume he needs acclimation period of a year. The same can be applied to Ohgren - he is not ready. You want to place your bets on prospects - go for it. I hope Billy doesn't share your sentiment and hope he ship out at least one at the trade deadline. 

Keep risking sustained futures on a plan that sounds risky at best and potentially crippling at worst.  Waiting a year to see if Buium or Yurov mean something doesn't kill the "break free agency glass in case of emergency" scenario.  keep risking what? we have been building towards a future for the last 30 years. the future is now. you have a superstar that may walk in a year and you are worried about some possible second line winger at best? Waiting a year for Yurov to see that - surprise - he needs more time to adjust - no problem Kap will wait. It's only his prime years after all. His GF will understand. "Listen Edina is just like Moscow in the fall honey". Yeap. 

 

[Citizen Strife]

What future is now?  The team missed the fucking playoffs last year.  If the team had some sustained yearly 2nd or 3rd round playoff success, I'd be all for risking everything.  They aren't, and may never be there.  You're very hung up on the Kap thing, acting as if one shiny toy is going to make them playoff contenders or keep him here.

This has been a promising start to the season.  That's all it is.  I'm not going to go out of my way to change the trajectory of the team on a whim.  That's what Fletchers do.

[Protec]

Wild called up a couple guys sounds like. That's a lot of AHL guys between Ogie, Milne, Jones, and Shore.

https://www.nhl.com/wild/news/minnesota-wild-recalls-forwards-ben-jones-and-devin-shore-from-iowa

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

What future is now?  The team missed the fucking playoffs last year.  If the team had some sustained yearly 2nd or 3rd round playoff success, I'd be all for risking everything.  They aren't, and may never be there.  You're very hung up on the Kap thing, acting as if one shiny toy is going to make them playoff contenders or keep him here.

This has been a promising start to the season.  That's all it is.  I'm not going to go out of my way to change the trajectory of the team on a whim.  That's what Fletchers do.

who cares if we missed a playoffs last year? are we not allowed to contend because we missed a playoffs the previous year? oh right - MN thing - you dare not talk about playoffs or winning.

let's wait until we are very sure. like maybe next time we have a superstar....actually no next time we have a top 3 player.....actually no next time we have a top 3 player who is from MN! there now you are getting excited!

Kaprizov - shiny toy? no he is one of the 3 most dominant players in the league! proceed as normal. one of us or none of us. he will sign or he will leave and we will bring in brocks to replace him.

and it makes perfect sense with your hate of fletcher haha the one who drafted Kap! yeap such a horrible no good GM. we'd be better off with stephen vellieux or that buffoon we drafted - Stramel i believe - that kid has game. yeap. 

how much longer for a winner billy? two weeks!

[Citizen Strife]

Cool.  Throw away all your chips then.  Call me again in April when Minnesota still can't get past a Dallas brick wall.  You need more than an unproven shiny toy (I was talking Brady, not Kap by the way).  You need 23 guys good enough to beat another 23.  They got close.  That's not enough.  At least if Minnesota as constructed slam headfirst into an Otter, they have more guys to work with later on.

But sure.  Keep thinking what Kap needs to win is one running buddy.  He needs 22.

Edited November 19 by Citizen Strife

[OldDutchChip]

10 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Cool.  Throw away all your chips then.  Call me again in April when Minnesota still can't get past a Dallas brick wall.  You need more than an unproven shiny toy (I was talking Brady, not Kap by the way).  You need 23 guys good enough to beat another 23.  They got close.  That's not enough.  At least if Minnesota as constructed slam headfirst into an Otter, they have more guys to work with later on.

But sure.  Keep thinking what Kap needs to win is one running buddy.  He needs 22.

go ahead and keep fearing Dallas and wait for the right moment. then someone else will take their place. it will either be Dallas or Jets or Preds or Avs or anyone else. But Wild will bite their time - MN way. one day. quiet sad. 

you know even if we fail and loose, i'd still appreciate that we went for it. and maybe Kap will too. but to give up on Kap's prime and give him no support now when the team is playing unbelievable is something "interesting"....maybe we don't deserve a winner if our fans are hoping for continuous mediocracy. to say - Kap needs to wait few more years (even though he likely is gone in half the time) for some unknown prospect to make it, who will likely be an undersized, underskilled but very over valued and over hyped is moronic. Kap WILL say - why did Vegas went for it and got Stone and Eichel? Why did Florida went for it and got Tkachuk? Why did we do NOTHING? yeap that's the place i want to be at. place where people are afraid to take a chance. 

we'll talk in April OK

 

[Protec]

Dallas just dropped one to Anaheim. 

MN needs to get healthy and get some depth production. 

Make a play for a scorer at the deadline.

[mnhockeyfan03]

Trade Rossi, Ohgren, Height and Trenin for Brady T

Also trade a prospect and higher pick not named Yurov and zeev to get Tuch

Also trade spurgeon for pucks for salary dump this deadline or next summer to get another solid RHD. 

Go for it all next year!!

Edited November 19 by mnhockeyfan03

[Burnt Toast]

9 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Has it not be enough time for us! Who is with me?

I’m with you with a caveat. 2027. I’ll take a slow, methodical, ascension. Let these first round picks develop a bit and clear out dead weight. Come on ODC it’s only 3 years! Plus each year the Wild should look better and go farther in the playoffs. 

[Burnt Toast]

58 minutes ago, Protec said:

Make a play for a scorer at the deadline.

I’d say this is almost guaranteed. Someone they can extend next year and wants to be here. This is a strong methodical approach. Start next year with a better top six and a  chance at winning a playoff round this year. 

[LittleBallofHate]

I can't do it. I can't pay premium for Tuch back when we gave him away for tiddlywinks. I also don't think Tuch would be that psyched about it. Also statswise he is Rossi-like, he is also playing on a line with a Unicorn Center & not really carrying the 200' responsibility load the same way Rossi is.

I keep thinking on the money though. Most those teams you reference that went all-in on FA had extra $$ to burn. The cited failure teams were more often than not in the Wild's boat of "make it work" financially.

So then we are talking about an even more top-loaded team with less depth available... Then, since it is the wild, our new FA toy is injured & now we have 0 depth to replace it with. I'm musing though. I am not totally opposed to another big R. wind with power-forward attributes... The Tuch one is just because I hate to buy high on our own stupid faux-pas... Frickn protect Dumba at all costs, obviously stings me still 

[Protec]

8 hours ago, Protec said:

Wild called up a couple guys sounds like. That's a lot of AHL guys between Ogie, Milne, Jones, and Shore.

https://www.nhl.com/wild/news/minnesota-wild-recalls-forwards-ben-jones-and-devin-shore-from-iowa

Apparently Hunt, Milne, and Ogie, have gone back to IA. It was perhaps some kind-of switcheroo with some coming up, and few going down. Okay...

[Citizen Strife]

My guess is Hynes doesn't want Ohgren dicking around the 4th line anymore when most of the forwards are healthy.  Jones and Shore seem like more suitable bottom forward options right now.

[OldDutchChip]

9 hours ago, Burnt Toast said:

I’m with you with a caveat. 2027. I’ll take a slow, methodical, ascension. Let these first round picks develop a bit and clear out dead weight. Come on ODC it’s only 3 years! Plus each year the Wild should look better and go farther in the playoffs. 

3 years is plenty of time for something to go wrong.....and for Minny fans we all know too well that most of the time - it does go wrong.