Article: Marco Rossi Is Still Looking For the Benefit Of the Doubt

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Citizen Strife said:

My main concern is why get rid of any of them?  Rossi gets you 2nd line scoring center or 3rd line C controlled mix of offense and defense at minimum, and you can just have Kap/Ek/Boldy wrecking things if you want to go that route.  There's nothing wrong with Rossi at 2C/3C getting 40-60 pts on a reasonable deal.  If Zeev is as good as people say he is, you have a potential game breaking offensive defenseman, or at worst, you have a 2nd two-way stud in Faber...fucking hell.  Either result would be nice.

Yurov is an unknown, just like Zeev is.  He could be anything from a 1C, 2W, or 2C.  Or, he can just shit the bed first time out like Ohgren did.  The idea to throw away a proven NHL quality player with some high end scoring potential because you "can't find room" or "can find someone better" is silly.  You know Rossi can hang in the NHL.  He and Faber were the only two guys last year who played all 82 games (if I remember right).  You don't know what another player on another team is going to do in our system, and you don't know if Zeev or Yurov just end up like Addison and Beckman.

Sure, signs point to Zeev and Yurov being top line guys.  Why sacrifice Rossi just because Hartman is a more versatile player?  So what if Rossi can only play C?  You get a high end offensive skillset that "may" flame out, but he's already done more at this level for this team than anyone he'd be traded for.  

Yurov could also be an Ohgren (Ohgren was predicted by many as immediate Top 6 player and now here we are.....) So let's say Yurov needs a year to just figure it out....which puts us at a year after Kap's contract ends....so not helpful

Zeev will likely also have some growing pains but even if all turns perfectly for him, he won't step into top 4 unless there is a trade of either Brodin or Midds or Spurge and that is very unlikely and i don't think should happen (they are not trading Spurge) so maybe some PP time.....hooray i guess

So the rookies are likely to do very little. 

Rossi - he will get his points by playing with Kap, likely finish above 70 pts, and points drive up the $. do you really want to pay 7.5MM+ for Rossi? That basically means NO spending on the "prized" get in the off season.

What i think makes sense is to sell high on Rossi (he really is the only one that could be sacrificed), save on his contract, and go after someone who gives you a better chance at today (deep playoff run) and at tomorrow with Kaprizov signed LT.

I just don't think that proceeding with same group of players, horribly undersized 1st line, is a recipe of success - Kap will get beaten down as the season goes deep and we enter playoffs

Kap stays only if everything aligns (and likely other factors out of our control - but we can only control what we can right...). I don't think Kap cares about prospects that may take time to marinate - he wants surety that his prime years are not wasted / he wants to play for the cup, not be a mentor to prospects who may or may not be THAT good. 

That's what i'd do. 🍻

[Citizen Strife]

Kap is also getting points because Rossi's there...so stop assuming he's the only one doing anything.  Tell me again how he started other seasons with other centers.  Rossi has improved each season.  He was nothing his first year, a 20-goal scorer last year, and now near a PPG player now.  Who gives a shit about size?  He's scoring points.  Forgive me again who got Middleton that puck against Winnipeg?  Was it Kap?  No.  Saying Kap is all the team has is dumb.

The team has 4-5 core players that are now and the future.  Kap, Boldy, Ek, Faber, and Rossi SHOULD be in that discussion.  But for whatever reason, he has this microscope where he's not good enough despite all the proof otherwise.

He has the same points right now as Point, Caufield, Forsberg, DeBrincat, Marchand, on and on and on, and making bargin basement money doing it.  He's got as many points as Guenther, who got paid a mint this offseason.  Why is it so hard to say, "Yeah, maybe give him another year or two.  He'll be fine?"

Edited 7 hours ago by Citizen Strife

[Citizen Strife]

Oh...here's MORE people with the same or less points than Rossi right now.

Fiala, Guentzel, Bedard, Lafreniere (guess who else got signed to money?), Larkin, Horvat,  Miller, etc.  Any of those players worried about "who they are playing with?"  Seems like they are doing fine with what they are doing.

I would keep naming names, but I have to go to work.

Edited 7 hours ago by Citizen Strife

[OldDutchChip]

50 minutes ago, Imyourhuckleberry said:

You want to remove one of the best skating players that plays strong defense with a good skating forward that has no defensive IQ? Sounds like you are wanting to make the Wild PP equal opportunity for the opposition to score.

That'd be an excellent way to hang the goalies out to dry for short handed goals.

i am saying he is our top zone entry PP personnel. not using him as such is a bit foolish given that we have had some bumps in the PP lately. but fine - i don't really care about MJ that much to argue. 

[OldDutchChip]

26 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Kap is also getting points because Rossi's there...so stop assuming he's the only one doing anything.  Tell me again how he started other seasons with other centers.  Rossi has improved each season.  He was nothing his first year, a 20-goal scorer last year, and now near a PPG player now.  Who gives a shit about size?  He's scoring points.  Forgive me again who got Middleton that puck against Winnipeg?  Was it Kap?  No.  Saying Kap is all the team has is dumb.

The team has 4-5 core players that are now and the future.  Kap, Boldy, Ek, Faber, and Rossi SHOULD be in that discussion.  But for whatever reason, he has this microscope where he's not good enough despite all the proof otherwise.

He has the same points right now as Point, Caufield, Forsberg, DeBrincat, Marchand, on and on and on, and making bargin basement money doing it.  He's got as many points as Guenther, who got paid a mint this offseason.  Why is it so hard to say, "Yeah, maybe give him another year or two.  He'll be fine?"

are we going to applaude every play a player makes? good for rossi to make a hockey play - that's what they all try to do - is make a good play. It's also easier when the focus of the opponent is on Kap and Zuccy....but yes he is the driver.

let's just build a team focused on Rossi then! trade Kap for Bedard and let Rossi and Bedard run around until someone checks them into Alaska.

Marchand is 48, why are we comparing a rat to Rossi? or is he just like Brayden Point because he has the same amount of pts? This is silly - the season is barely 10 games in and we are using stats to compare players. To equate Brayden Point, who plays and excels at virtually all aspects of the game, to Rossi - who is really one - dimensional at this point, it very odd and unfair to Point. Point is a borderline superstar and was playing like one during their SC run. It's just plain wrong to put Point's and Marchand on the same list as Rossi. But that;s what stats allow you to do. Fine do it. But Rossi is NOT Point. And Kap needs his "Point" that is why Rossi will be traded. 

[OldDutchChip]

27 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Oh...here's MORE people with the same or less points than Rossi right now.

Fiala, Guentzel, Bedard, Lafreniere (guess who else got signed to money?), Larkin, Horvat,  Miller, etc.  Any of those players worried about "who they are playing with?"  Seems like they are doing fine with what they are doing.

I would keep naming names, but I have to go to work.

good that settles it. Rossi = Bedard. Because stats after 10 games say so. case closed.

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

It's really up to the GM now who (unlike the fans) should look to the future and "smartly" plan for it. His future is Kap (1) and Playoffs (2). To ensure longevity and success of both our GM will likely be active at the trade deadline (this year). Tell me who he can sell high on 🤔 

The trade will happen - it's just a matter of who he'll give up to get who he needs to get - Rossi, Zeev, or Yurov. 

 

"Smartly" is the key word here.  In my view the only real target of Billy's so far has been Trenin and Laine. Trenin appears to be a miss and we dodged a bullet in not getting Laine. It would be interesting to know the pieces Billy was going to move to fit Laine and his salary here. If Laine was the target of his hearts desires I find that worrisome. His other targets are the old vets on the team who were given extensions and NMC's.  Faber and Gus fell into his lap. Neither was a target but just a product of trades that had to be made. Excuse me if I do not have a lot of faith in Billy's targets going forward. Rossi is clearly his only choice with the most value. He is the only one who has even the slightest bit of a NHL resume. 

I'm guessing Billy has a Wild jersey in his closet with the name Boeser on the back. 

 

[Enforceror]

19 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i am saying he is our top zone entry PP personnel. not using him as such is a bit foolish given that we have had some bumps in the PP lately. but fine - i don't really care about MJ that much to argue. 

I wonder if Lauko could be used in this role. He has the speed, definitely more grit. Less puck handling and skating prettiness but could he be developed in this manner?

[OldDutchChip]

9 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

"Smartly" is the key word here.  In my view the only real target of Billy's so far has been Trenin and Laine. Trenin appears to be a miss and we dodged a bullet in not getting Laine. It would be interesting to know the pieces Billy was going to move to fit Laine and his salary here. If Laine was the target of his hearts desires I find that worrisome. His other targets are the old vets on the team who were given extensions and NMC's.  Faber and Gus fell into his lap. Neither was a target but just a product of trades that had to be made. Excuse me if I do not have a lot of faith in Billy's targets going forward. Rossi is clearly his only choice with the most value. He is the only one who has even the slightest bit of a NHL resume. 

I'm guessing Billy has a Wild jersey in his closet with the name Boeser on the back. 

 

agree, thankfully laine is not on our team. 

knowing how Billy operates - there is likely not a ton of creative thinking and the list is limited to those he knows. 

isn't boeser hurt though? i am really hoping his past deadlines with sabres can be used to pry away tuch. 

[OldDutchChip]

14 minutes ago, Enforceror said:

I wonder if Lauko could be used in this role. He has the speed, definitely more grit. Less puck handling and skating prettiness but could he be developed in this manner?

hmm i prefer Lauko on PK (save his energy there - he seems to be getting plenty of chances on PK haha) but really (and maybe it's just me) but i feel MJ is wasted on PP2 (he routinely gets into the zone but then they do not have the personnel or time to do anything, hence i was suggesting using him here and there on PP1. how many times we waste our PP1 time just on entries? imagine setting up immediately after puck retrieval and not do that predictable puck drop to Kap or Faber only to get it poked away and away and away....

[mnhockeyfan03]

Please stop looking at points and judging a player by that.  Watch the game as see how that player controls the game.  Sorry but Rossi is not a dominate, controlling player.  He is a passenger that needs to be surround by other good players to succeed.  He will be traded to get a better core piece as should Spurgeon.  We need the cap flexibility 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

To equate Brayden Point, who plays and excels at virtually all aspects of the game, to Rossi - who is really one - dimensional at this point, it very odd and unfair to Point.

What is his one dimension? He is excelling at not only getting scoring and setting it up but has also been extremely effective at controlling play in his own end as well. Of the forwards he tops the on ice goals % of anyone not on first PP. He gives up the fewest high danger chances of anyone on the top line and is top 5 in the forwards. Tops the team in rebounds created, in 5v5 high danger chances, and his 5v5 numbers. Based on his shooting percentage and PDO he is actually underperforming and has a good chance of positive regression! 

So tell me chuckles, which one dimension are you talking about?

We are getting all this on a ELC, and you want to find something to complain about? Changing one player to get bigger isn't going to make a difference on the mean and we are a smaller club. We just need to play to our strengths, which is how we have been playing. Article after article has been written that there is no correlation between size and winning the cup yet you beat on your tired drum.

The truth is; the upcoming UFA's this year offer little in terms of an upgrade on Rossi. Sending out two or more core players to get one back is a mistake. Look at the Fiala deal, or PLD going to LAK from WPG. Paying high for one player in current NHLers is frequently a bust move. We are third in the league, with absolutely great defense, goaltending and very little offense. You are suggesting we get rid of our second best 5v5 play driver plus picks prospects and possibly other players for one star but do you see how we already struggle to score outside of the top two lines? We specifically don't put Ek Boldy and Kap together because we need more than one line that can score. Thinning out our talent for one star is going to exasperate the issue, not improve it. It will likely decrease our scoring instead of improve it. We have big power forwards developing right now (Yurov and Ohgren) yet we should go giveaway big assets to get a power forward.

Enjoy the ride bud. We are playing well with the team we have. Lines are clicking and we are winning games pretty consistently. We've won against TB (twice), FLA and TOR and took the winningest team WPG in the league to a OTL. Let them cook!

[MNCountryLife]

22 hours ago, Thatoneguy said:

but where I have a problem is when Nojo is stapled to the 2nd line no matter how much nothing he does

I adamantly agree with you on this.  Nojo started the year off playing well.  I even made a comment on the boards acknowledging him as a player playing well.  Was tough for me to do (ugh).  But the last 2 weeks he has been clearly the worst player for the MN Wild.  His play has been so bad that he qualifies as our worst player.  I have to believe that the rest of the team will eventually revolt against the coaches if they continue to let his lackadaisical effort go unpunished. 

[MNCountryLife]

20 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Rossi and Nojo will be gone at the deadline.  If they were smart spurgeon would be as well.  They are propping them up now to sell them off.

Would love to see Nojo gone.  Rossi is still getting better.  Would kind of like to see just how good he can get.  He seems to have all the tools to be an elite player.  At only 23 I hope we have the patience to see where he goes.  Spurgeon is another matter.  What is the return on value?  Hate to see a player of Spurge's skill level leave but at his age would also be nice to get a bit of value from him before he enters retirement.

[Pewterschmidt]

41 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Changing one player to get bigger isn't going to make a difference on the mean and we are a smaller club. We just need to play to our strengths, which is how we have been playing.

Remember 3 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the 1st round.

Remember 2 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the 1st round.

Remember last season...

What's different this year because it's basically the same group of players (ignoring 4th liners, and they can be ignored for this point)?

What's the definition of insanity again???

Edited 4 hours ago by Pewterschmidt

[OldDutchChip]

32 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

What is his one dimension? He is excelling at not only getting scoring and setting it up but has also been extremely effective at controlling play in his own end as well. Of the forwards he tops the on ice goals % of anyone not on first PP. He gives up the fewest high danger chances of anyone on the top line and is top 5 in the forwards. Tops the team in rebounds created, in 5v5 high danger chances, and his 5v5 numbers. Based on his shooting percentage and PDO he is actually underperforming and has a good chance of positive regression! 

So tell me chuckles, which one dimension are you talking about?

We are getting all this on a ELC, and you want to find something to complain about? Changing one player to get bigger isn't going to make a difference on the mean and we are a smaller club. We just need to play to our strengths, which is how we have been playing. Article after article has been written that there is no correlation between size and winning the cup yet you beat on your tired drum.

The truth is; the upcoming UFA's this year offer little in terms of an upgrade on Rossi. Sending out two or more core players to get one back is a mistake. Look at the Fiala deal, or PLD going to LAK from WPG. Paying high for one player in current NHLers is frequently a bust move. We are third in the league, with absolutely great defense, goaltending and very little offense. You are suggesting we get rid of our second best 5v5 play driver plus picks prospects and possibly other players for one star but do you see how we already struggle to score outside of the top two lines? We specifically don't put Ek Boldy and Kap together because we need more than one line that can score. Thinning out our talent for one star is going to exasperate the issue, not improve it. It will likely decrease our scoring instead of improve it. We have big power forwards developing right now (Yurov and Ohgren) yet we should go giveaway big assets to get a power forward.

Enjoy the ride bud. We are playing well with the team we have. Lines are clicking and we are winning games pretty consistently. We've won against TB (twice), FLA and TOR and took the winningest team WPG in the league to a OTL. Let them cook!

yes he gets the points, i understand that. he plays with Kaprizov and is bound to collect some. but that's it, if he is not on top 2 lines, you cannot use him anywhere else. yet, maybe he'll grow in his role. he just doesn't have the tools right now. he does not play PK. he cannot be used for shut down role. he cannot move up and down the lineup! harty can be plugged in ANYWHERE and you will not miss a beat. rossi on the other hand can only be played next to our best players. and his role is a bit redundant if there is a zuccy out there. zuccy stays because there is just no way you move him. finally it's just the reality of NHL - you need someone bigger to win when it matters. i don't know what more you need to know? you cannot play for SC with Zuccy and Rossi as your top line duo. Kap does not deserve that. 

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Remember 3 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the 1st round.

Remember 2 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the second round.

Remember last season...

What's the definition of insanity again???

but this year we have zuccy and rossi duo! argh

[Enforceror]

On another note, Michigan U is now 7-1. Stramel has 8gp, 2g, 4a for.75ppg. +5

6'3 @ 223

Right shot, listed as C/RW.

Old news to everyone, I know, but there is a reason he was picked where he was. Hoping he really catches his stride.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

The biggest difference? We are playing more disciplined hockey under Heinzy. Both those years we were top 5 in penalties, we got rattled easily and lost composure. Boldy, Rossi and Faber are all 2 years older and looking like impact players. Boldy went from 41 pts to 69pts in that time. JEEK went from 49 to 64. Rossi went from 19 games and 1 assist to a ppg player. Faber only played 2 games and is now turning into a top pairing defenseman. 

The difference is we are developing our young players as one would expect. The names on the roster have in fact changed over too. Since 21-22 as you mentioned above there is no; Greenway, Dumba, Kulikov, Dewar, Duhaime, Reaves, Deslaurier, Jost, Sturm, Bjugstad, Talbot, Kahkonen.... I could go on. 

Under Dean he emphasized playing rough, physical, schoolyard hockey. It ended up killing us in injuries as the year went on and we are a smaller team. We are playing disciplined, defense and skill focused hockey now. That wins games and that wins cups all the while we don't put a target on our backs for the Zebras. Complaining and screaming at refs never got us anywhere but under a microscope. 

Once again, there is zero evidence that a larger team wins in playoffs. The results simply do not correlate to that. Play that card all you want but there simply isn't any truth to it. 

 

[raithis]

50 minutes ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Remember 3 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the 1st round.

Remember 2 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the 1st round.

Remember last season...

What's different this year because it's basically the same group of players (ignoring 4th liners, and they can be ignored for this point)?

What's the definition of insanity again???

I try believe that with Ek that would have been a much more even series against Dallas.  Ek is pretty much the backbone of the team.  He's not Kaprizov, but no one on the team is as good of a center as Ek is, and facing a center-heavy team like Dallas 2 years ago without your best center by a mile made it much harder to even stay in games, let alone with them.

Last season was mainly due to injuries.

Just because there hasn't been a lot of turnover doesn't mean we will get the same result.  The younger guys on the team have gotten better at a faster rate than our veterans have declined and they have have been a few moves that made us slightly better than we were - at least overall.

We are definitely improving and I think we have a lot further to go, but getting past the cap penalties is the next step forward.  That should at least open things up so we have more options.  Not only that, but the salary cap going up again opens up other teams for more options too and gives us more to work with.

[Mateo3xm]

16 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Typical MN sports fan.  Why don’t we for once actually build a team that has a chance in the playoffs and not just to get there.  We want to win the cup and sorry Rossi, Nojo, Spurgeon and a few others are not getting us there.  Don’t settle for mediocrity demand excellence.  

Rossi isn’t part of the problem, he’s part of the solution. Jonathan Marchessault
won the Conn Smyth trophy as a 5’9 forward. We dont need to get rid of one of our most talented players that happens to be small. Get rid of the other players that aren’t producing and/or are small for bigger players or perhaps draft bigger players so it’s not so hard for them in the playoffs. A couple undersized players isn’t bad but when you consistently take the small ones it doesn’t work out. It’s astounding how you ppl keep looking to get rid of Rossi. Really shows you’re confused. There’s lots of other players that should go before him. 

[MacGyver]

3 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

agree, thankfully laine is not on our team. 

knowing how Billy operates - there is likely not a ton of creative thinking and the list is limited to those he knows. 

isn't boeser hurt though? i am really hoping his past deadlines with sabres can be used to pry away tuch. 

Yeah Boeser has missed a couple games not sure what the problem is. But he has let his agent know he wants to come here. And he is a Minnesota boy so all the pieces are there for Billy to make a run at him. Tuch was estatic to get to Buffalo his hometown and he is happy and playing well there.  Tuch was left unprotected by Minnesota in favor of Dumba during the Vegas expansion draft. Vegas naturally snagged him. Tuch currently has a five team no trade clause. Do you think a team that felt he wasn't worth protecting might be on that list? 

[OldDutchChip]

14 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

Rossi isn’t part of the problem, he’s part of the solution. Jonathan Marchessault
won the Conn Smyth trophy as a 5’9 forward. We dont need to get rid of one of our most talented players that happens to be small. Get rid of the other players that aren’t producing and/or are small for bigger players or perhaps draft bigger players so it’s not so hard for them in the playoffs. A couple undersized players isn’t bad but when you consistently take the small ones it doesn’t work out. It’s astounding how you ppl keep looking to get rid of Rossi. Really shows you’re confused. There’s lots of other players that should go before him. 

yeap i can see the similarities 

zuccy is our Eichel and rossi is our Stone so that Kap can be our Marchy!

their D was also on average 6'4' so nothing out of sorts just like spurge and co

 

[Mateo3xm]

15 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

If you look at the Wilds record each year against the East and against the West they fair much better against the East because they are way less physical.  The West teams are bigger and stronger and come playoff time when the whistles go away that who we have to beat so we have to create a team that can win in those situations and having 4-5 guys on our team under 5’10 and 180 are not going to get it done.  We need 3 things in addition to Yurov coming over and Bium. We need a big top 6 RH forward to play ovechkins office on the PP.  Also need a top 1C to play with lap (Rossi is not that guy) and large RHD to play top 4 mins to take spurgeon’s spot

I agree to that to an extent but Rossi isn’t the guy you should be looking to move.

[OldDutchChip]

5 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Yeah Boeser has missed a couple games not sure what the problem is. But he has let his agent know he wants to come here. And he is a Minnesota boy so all the pieces are there for Billy to make a run at him. Tuch was estatic to get to Buffalo his hometown and he is happy and playing well there.  Tuch was left unprotected by Minnesota in favor of Dumba during the Vegas expansion draft. Vegas naturally snagged him. Tuch currently has a five team no trade clause. Do you think a team that felt he wasn't worth protecting might be on that list? 

Yeah Boeser has missed a couple games not sure what the problem is. But he has let his agent know he wants to come here. And he is a Minnesota boy so all the pieces are there for Billy to make a run at him. 😆 so true so very true - but maybe it'll be oshie or nelson?

Do you think a team that felt he wasn't worth protecting might be on that list? vs playing for buffalo? perhaps?