Article: Marco Rossi Is Still Looking For the Benefit Of the Doubt

[OldDutchChip]

41 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

The biggest difference? We are playing more disciplined hockey under Heinzy. Both those years we were top 5 in penalties, we got rattled easily and lost composure. Boldy, Rossi and Faber are all 2 years older and looking like impact players. Boldy went from 41 pts to 69pts in that time. JEEK went from 49 to 64. Rossi went from 19 games and 1 assist to a ppg player. Faber only played 2 games and is now turning into a top pairing defenseman. 

The difference is we are developing our young players as one would expect. The names on the roster have in fact changed over too. Since 21-22 as you mentioned above there is no; Greenway, Dumba, Kulikov, Dewar, Duhaime, Reaves, Deslaurier, Jost, Sturm, Bjugstad, Talbot, Kahkonen.... I could go on. 

Under Dean he emphasized playing rough, physical, schoolyard hockey. It ended up killing us in injuries as the year went on and we are a smaller team. We are playing disciplined, defense and skill focused hockey now. That wins games and that wins cups all the while we don't put a target on our backs for the Zebras. Complaining and screaming at refs never got us anywhere but under a microscope. 

Once again, there is zero evidence that a larger team wins in playoffs. The results simply do not correlate to that. Play that card all you want but there simply isn't any truth to it. 

 

we were booted from playoffs every time because of our lack of size! how is that not evidence? the only size we had was in our 4th line variety that did all the intimidation it could muster from the bench.

fine here is the last three cup champs - notice the trend?

Avs: Kadri 6ft, Landeskog 6'1'', McK 6ft, Nich 6'4'', Ranty 6'4, Burak 6'3''

Vegas: Eichel 6'2'', Hague 6'4'', Karlsson 6ft, Machy 5'9'', McNabb 6'4, Pietrangelo 6'3'', Roy 6'4'', Stone 6'3'', Theodore 6'2''

Florida: Barkov 6'3'', Bennett 6'1'', Ekblad 6'4'', Forsling 6'1'', Lundell 6'1'', Reinhard 6'1'', Tkachuk 6'2'', Verhaeghe 6'2''

[Mateo3xm]

3 hours ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Please stop looking at points and judging a player by that.  Watch the game as see how that player controls the game.  Sorry but Rossi is not a dominate, controlling player.  He is a passenger that needs to be surround by other good players to succeed.  He will be traded to get a better core piece as should Spurgeon.  We need the cap flexibility 

How is he a player that needs to be surrounded by good players to succeed when he scored 21g 20a on the 3rd line with scrubs as a rookie??? He was 2nd on the team in even strength points because he got no pp time. You just don’t have a clue what you’re talking about and it shows every time you comment. Stats are absolutely relevant. That’s such a dumb take. Stats don’t lie. 

[Mateo3xm]

5 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

we were booted from playoffs every time because of our lack of size! how is that not evidence? the only size we had was in our 4th line variety that did all the intimidation it could muster from the bench.

fine here is the last three cup champs - notice the trend?

Avs: Kadri 6ft, Landeskog 6'1'', McK 6ft, Nich 6'4'', Ranty 6'4, Burak 6'3''

Vegas: Eichel 6'2'', Hague 6'4'', Karlsson 6ft, Machy 5'9'', McNabb 6'4, Pietrangelo 6'3'', Roy 6'4'', Stone 6'3'', Theodore 6'2''

Florida: Barkov 6'3'', Bennett 6'1'', Ekblad 6'4'', Forsling 6'1'', Lundell 6'1'', Reinhard 6'1'', Tkachuk 6'2'', Verhaeghe 6'2''

I’m not at all questioning that this team needs to be bigger. It does without question but you can’t seem to break your concentration from Rossi. It’s ok to have a smaller player or two especially if they are very talented. This team needs to get rid of Marat before it gets rid of Rossi. “Zuccy” doesn’t have much time left and neither does Spurg. Their size and age is a problem.

[Mateo3xm]

2 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

Remember 3 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the 1st round.

Remember 2 seasons ago when we put up 100+ pts and then got bullied out of the 1st round.

Remember last season...

What's different this year because it's basically the same group of players (ignoring 4th liners, and they can be ignored for this point)?

What's the definition of insanity again???

Out of all the small players you want to divert your attention to, why is it Rossi? It’s astonishing. I agree team needs to get bigger but Rossi isn’t the one you should be looking to get rid of! How do you not see that?

[Mateo3xm]

2 hours ago, Enforceror said:

On another note, Michigan U is now 7-1. Stramel has 8gp, 2g, 4a for.75ppg. +5

6'3 @ 223

Right shot, listed as C/RW.

Old news to everyone, I know, but there is a reason he was picked where he was. Hoping he really catches his stride.

That’s really not that impressive. I heard he was playing first line center. If they’re 7-1 he should have more points. We could have had Calum Ritchie who’s similar size but a lot more talented. We reached because of his size and it probably wasn’t a good idea because all he’s shown is the potential to be a 4th or tops 3rd line C who puts up very few points.

[Mateo3xm]

40 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Yeah Boeser has missed a couple games not sure what the problem is. But he has let his agent know he wants to come here. And he is a Minnesota boy so all the pieces are there for Billy to make a run at him. 😆 so true so very true - but maybe it'll be oshie or nelson?

Do you think a team that felt he wasn't worth protecting might be on that list? vs playing for buffalo? perhaps?

Buffalo is an incredibly talented team the problem is they’re one of the youngest teams in the nhl. They will be an up and coming team in 2-3 years and he gets to play for his home town.

[OldDutchChip]

22 minutes ago, Mateo3xm said:

I’m not at all questioning that this team needs to be bigger. It does without question but you can’t seem to break your concentration from Rossi. It’s ok to have a smaller player or two especially if they are very talented. This team needs to get rid of Marat before it gets rid of Rossi. “Zuccy” doesn’t have much time left and neither does Spurg. Their size and age is a problem.

haha Marat is fine where he's at and is not due a contract that is north of 7MM

rossi plays on a line that consists of Kap and 5'8'' Zuccy. rossi is himself like 5'9'' so yeah he is a target. 

yes both Spurge and Zuccy and funny enough - Kap - are done at the same time....

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, Mateo3xm said:

Buffalo is an incredibly talented team the problem is they’re one of the youngest teams in the nhl. They will be an up and coming team in 2-3 years and he gets to play for his home town.

buffalo has been saying that for 20 years now

why would they want a 31 year old tuch in 3 years? that would make even more sense for them to ship him out for some prospect or younger asset like rossi

 

[FredJohnson]

 benefit of the doubt that gets extended to less impactful players (whom I'm sure you can name in the comments). 

[Imyourhuckleberry]

42 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

buffalo has been saying that for 20 years now

why would they want a 31 year old tuch in 3 years? that would make even more sense for them to ship him out for some prospect or younger asset like rossi

I would be shocked if the Wild were on Tuch's no-trade list. Does anyone really think he'd rather play for Anaheim, Columbus, San Jose, Chicago, or Philadelphia?

Those teams were pretty clearly not going to contend this year and likely not in the next couple of years. The Wild were at least not far from the playoffs last year, have a star and a path to improvement(losing the cap penalties soon), and have a clear spot on the top 6 to replace. A player putting the Wild on their do not trade list doesn't make sense if there are only 5 teams they can choose.

[mnhockeyfan03]

1 hour ago, Mateo3xm said:

How is he a player that needs to be surrounded by good players to succeed when he scored 21g 20a on the 3rd line with scrubs as a rookie??? He was 2nd on the team in even strength points because he got no pp time. You just don’t have a clue what you’re talking about and it shows every time you comment. Stats are absolutely relevant. That’s such a dumb take. Stats don’t lie. 

Haha all your posts you did just proved you know nothing about hockey and how to build a playoff team.  You don’t pay Rossi 6-7mm.  You trade him for someone better with a prospect or pick. We have a team of small guys that needs to be addressed

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

1 hour ago, OldDutchChip said:

we were booted from playoffs every time because of our lack of size! how is that not evidence? the only size we had was in our 4th line variety that did all the intimidation it could muster from the bench.

fine here is the last three cup champs - notice the trend?

Avs: Kadri 6ft, Landeskog 6'1'', McK 6ft, Nich 6'4'', Ranty 6'4, Burak 6'3''

Vegas: Eichel 6'2'', Hague 6'4'', Karlsson 6ft, Machy 5'9'', McNabb 6'4, Pietrangelo 6'3'', Roy 6'4'', Stone 6'3'', Theodore 6'2''

Florida: Barkov 6'3'', Bennett 6'1'', Ekblad 6'4'', Forsling 6'1'', Lundell 6'1'', Reinhard 6'1'', Tkachuk 6'2'', Verhaeghe 6'2''

https://hockeyanalysis.com/2023/11/24/player-size-and-playoff-success/

Here's a great article that breaks everything down. The size and weigh of defensemen seem to have an impact but more and more forwards are getting lighter on the winning side.

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

https://hockeyanalysis.com/2023/11/24/player-size-and-playoff-success/

Here's a great article that breaks everything down. The size and weigh of defensemen seem to have an impact but more and more forwards are getting lighter on the winning side.

i don't know if you can get any lighter than 5'8'' 5'9'' and 5'10 line....

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

6 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i don't know if you can get any lighter than 5'8'' 5'9'' and 5'10 line....

Bud just read the article. Here is more evidence that a large forward core or team doesn't necessarily equal success.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

Here is Minnesota's current mean height and weight

Minnesota Wild

6'0" / 183.78 cm

196 lbs / 88.78 kg

Which means we are right around the Penn's when they won the cup, or the Blackhawks.

 

Point being, while I think it would be advantageous to increase the size of our defense. The size of our forward group is really not a cause for concern, primarily because the weight and height of forwards in playoffs does not have a conclusive effect on the outcome. I can quote some further articles if you like but they all draw the same conclusion from the data available.

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

29 minutes ago, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Haha all your posts you did just proved you know nothing about hockey and how to build a playoff team.  You don’t pay Rossi 6-7mm.  You trade him for someone better with a prospect or pick. We have a team of small guys that needs to be addressed

Ah yes, second best center we have ever drafted in terms of how he's played so far. We should probably send him upriver for some picks so we can wait another 20 years to find a decent one. Sounds like a great way to be in the mushy middle for all eternity.

[mnhockeyfan03]

1 minute ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Ah yes, second best center we have ever drafted in terms of how he's played so far. We should probably send him upriver for some picks so we can wait another 20 years to find a decent one. Sounds like a great way to be in the mushy middle for all eternity.

I didn’t say for a prospect or pick I said you trade him with a pick and/or prospect to get the 1C we need

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Bud just read the article. Here is more evidence that a large forward core or team doesn't necessarily equal success.

i mean i provided you the players on last three SC winning teams. there is size there. on top of that there is meanness there that is feared. even our "sizable" players like boldy and ek are anything but deterring. ek probably gets smacked 100 times before he actually reacts and boldy just laughs. their bigs are foligno and bogo and trenin and they all look old. trenin shouldn't but he does. we need the size up front on line 1. we cannot roll out such a tiny line in the playoffs. the game will be called tighter and physicality will intensify. 

but ok let's look at above - so Blues - let's  look at that core O and D

D

Bortuzzo 6'4'' Bowmeester 6'4'' Mikkola 6'4'' Scandella 6'3'' Pietrangelo 6'3'' Parayko 6'6'' that's one meaty D

O

Kyrou 6'1'' Tarasenko 6'1'' Thomas 6ft Barbashev 6'1'' Schenn 6'1'' Perron 6ft O'Reilly 6'1'' Brower 6'3'' i guess that's also not a slim group

can we really compare that to Zuccy 5'8'' Rossi 5'9'' Kap 5'10''? And it's not just the size, it's the nasty way of Playoff hockey which Schenn and Perron bring it. you know the one. that is not Zuccy's game. He can wack his stick at a player after all is done but that is all. 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

24 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

i mean i provided you the players on last three SC winning teams. there is size there. on top of that there is meanness there that is feared. even our "sizable" players like boldy and ek are anything but deterring. ek probably gets smacked 100 times before he actually reacts and boldy just laughs. their bigs are foligno and bogo and trenin and they all look old. trenin shouldn't but he does. we need the size up front on line 1. we cannot roll out such a tiny line in the playoffs. the game will be called tighter and physicality will intensify. 

but ok let's look at above - so Blues - let's  look at that core O and D

D

Bortuzzo 6'4'' Bowmeester 6'4'' Mikkola 6'4'' Scandella 6'3'' Pietrangelo 6'3'' Parayko 6'6'' that's one meaty D

O

Kyrou 6'1'' Tarasenko 6'1'' Thomas 6ft Barbashev 6'1'' Schenn 6'1'' Perron 6ft O'Reilly 6'1'' Brower 6'3'' i guess that's also not a slim group

can we really compare that to Zuccy 5'8'' Rossi 5'9'' Kap 5'10''? And it's not just the size, it's the nasty way of Playoff hockey which Schenn and Perron bring it. you know the one. that is not Zuccy's game. He can wack his stick at a player after all is done but that is all. 

Good, you cherry picked one to suit your point. Now do the 2016 Pens and the 2015 Blackhawks. 

You can cherry pick stats until the cows come home if you want. It doesn't change that over a larger dataset, the trend doesn't hold true as per all the evidence I've provided to you. I'm not saying your wrong, unbiased data is. I'm just the one pointing it out. 

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

Good, you cherry picked one to suit your point. Now do the 2016 Pens and the 2015 Blackhawks. 

You can cherry pick stats until the cows come home if you want. It doesn't change that over a larger dataset, the trend doesn't hold true as per all the evidence I've provided to you. I'm not saying your wrong, unbiased data is. I'm just the one pointing it out. 

how far are you going to take it? you realize players are getting stronger and stronger right? but ok let's go with Pens in 2016 - 

Baby crew at 5'11'' Kessel, Guentzel, Crosby, Hagelin, Hornqvist

Then into the 6ft

6'0'' letang

6'1'' Cully, Bonino, Cole

6'3'' Malkin Maata Hainsley Dumoulin

So no one below 5'11'' played any role and we have our entire top line 5'10'' and below. And the trend (as i presented) show that the teams are getting bigger. what more do you need?

 

 

[Pewterschmidt]

5 hours ago, Mateo3xm said:

Out of all the small players you want to divert your attention to, why is it Rossi? It’s astonishing. I agree team needs to get bigger but Rossi isn’t the one you should be looking to get rid of! How do you not see that?

1) Rossi has market value that's rising but he'll be a non-factor in post season., 2) Guerin wants to get rid of him and he's surrounded by a bunch of old twerps (Zuc, Spurge).  Marat is a cheap twerp who plays with sandpaper. Remember Granlund and PM Bouchard in the playoffs?  Me neither.  Great in regular season though.

Edited November 15 by Pewterschmidt

[Need4speed99]

On 11/13/2024 at 8:54 PM, mnhockeyfan03 said:

Typical MN sports fan.  Why don’t we for once actually build a team that has a chance in the playoffs and not just to get there.  We want to win the cup and sorry Rossi, Nojo, Spurgeon and a few others are not getting us there.  Don’t settle for mediocrity demand excellence.  

Ohhh taking shots now?

 

Who should get top line minutes if not rossi?

 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

14 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

how far are you going to take it? you realize players are getting stronger and stronger right? but ok let's go with Pens in 2016 - 

Baby crew at 5'11'' Kessel, Guentzel, Crosby, Hagelin, Hornqvist

Then into the 6ft

6'0'' letang

6'1'' Cully, Bonino, Cole

6'3'' Malkin Maata Hainsley Dumoulin

So no one below 5'11'' played any role and we have our entire top line 5'10'' and below. And the trend (as i presented) show that the teams are getting bigger. what more do you need?

 

 

You forgot a few @ 5' 10" and 5'11";

Josh Archibald, Trevor Daley, J.S. Dea, Ruhwedel, Olesky, Rust, Simon, Sheary(5'9")

Streit, Warsofsky and Wilson all played on that team at points throughout the season. 

In playoffs, Archibald, Rust, Sheary, Streit, Daley, Ruhwedel and Wilson all played games.

So add seven players in on your below 5'11" list instead of your revisionist bullsh*t and you have a true representation.

Still trying to cherry pick. Like I said, The unbiased facts don't change bud. Had you read what I posted or even asked for further articles to point on these facts, you could figure out that what your trying to prove is untrue as a whole. Far smarter people than me have done many deep dives into this and it always comes out the same. 

 

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

13 hours ago, Pewterschmidt said:

1) Rossi has market value that's rising but he'll be a non-factor in post season., 2) Guerin wants to get rid of him and he's surrounded by a bunch of old twerps (Zuc, Spurge).  Marat is a cheap twerp who plays with sandpaper. Remember Granlund and PM Bouchard in the playoffs?  Me neither.  Great in regular season though.

We haven't even seen him in playoffs yet Pewter and you still can conclusively say he will be not good in the post season? Seems a little premature.

[OldDutchChip]

3 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

You forgot a few @ 5' 10" and 5'11";

Josh Archibald, Trevor Daley, J.S. Dea, Ruhwedel, Olesky, Rust, Simon, Sheary(5'9")

Streit, Warsofsky and Wilson all played on that team at points throughout the season. 

In playoffs, Archibald, Rust, Sheary, Streit, Daley, Ruhwedel and Wilson all played games.

So add seven players in on your below 5'11" list instead of your revisionist bullsh*t and you have a true representation.

Still trying to cherry pick. Like I said, The unbiased facts don't change bud. Had you read what I posted or even asked for further articles to point on these facts, you could figure out that what your trying to prove is untrue as a whole. Far smarter people than me have done many deep dives into this and it always comes out the same. 

 

i am not going to list the entire roster, i've focused on the core. but i think i've proven that even 10 years ago  - teams were getting bigger. and look where we are at now - again i've shown how they are even bigger. so not sure where cherry picking come from. it's just a reality.