Article: Zeev Buium’s Impact Goes Further Than the Stat Sheet

[Robert Brent]

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[Citizen Strife]

That movement speed and decision making was something else.  I cant fathom what a line with Kap, Faber, and Buium together would do to just carve in and out of other lines like swiss cheese.  

[mnfaninnc]

Question #1: Did Faber always have this stick handling and rushing the puck in clutch situations in his hockey bag?

Question #2: Is Denver scoring at the same pace they were last season? They were the highest scoring team in the NCAAs.

Question #3: Did Buium add a bunch of strength this offseason, perhaps weighing in about 5-10 lbs. heavier? 

Questions 2 & 3 should have been answered within the article. Denver is undefeated and Buium is producing. But there are things that need addressing, for instance, can Buium actively pin guys and hold them against the wall/clear the front of the net? Were some of his points last season a result of the whole team scoring more? Do they have less offensive options? For instance, if we look at Rieger Lorenz, we see him with 3-2-5 in 10 games. To me, this appears to be less than last season at this point. 

To me, Paul Coffey was the best offensive defensemen in league history. Yet, does Coffey get all his points playing on the Colorado Rockies/NJ Devils? Having Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri had to certainly help his stats. Denver was a juggernaut last season. Perhaps they graduated some important parts of the team from last year. This could have quite an impact on Buium's offensive totals. 

[mnfaninnc]

I'm going to ask it here to: In the offseason, is Matthew Knies a target to offersheet for us? The more I think about it the more this looks like

Boldy-Ek-Kaprizov

Knies-Rossi-Yurov

The thing that bothers me a bit is all these guys are LHS. But, jeez, that looks like a pick your poison top 6!

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

I'm going to ask it here to: In the offseason, is Matthew Knies a target to offersheet for us? The more I think about it the more this looks like

Boldy-Ek-Kaprizov

Knies-Rossi-Yurov

The thing that bothers me a bit is all these guys are LHS. But, jeez, that looks like a pick your poison top 6!

my friend you forgot that Zuccy is signed for 2 years and is not going anywhere, unless Kap is moved earlier. so here is where i see us going into next year - 

LINE 1 Zuccy Kap

2nd line may have a new face as i feel Rossi is moved

LINE 2 EK BOLDY MYSTERY (Rossi trade)

LINE 3 MARAT YUROV OHGREN/HARTY (one of them may have a shot at 1C)

LINE 4 TRENIN FOLIGNO LAUKO

Our trade of Rossi won't block us from bringing in Matt Cullen or Phil Kessel so we should be able to sneak in a minnesota son.

[OldDutchChip]

1 hour ago, mnfaninnc said:

Question #1: Did Faber always have this stick handling and rushing the puck in clutch situations in his hockey bag?

Question #2: Is Denver scoring at the same pace they were last season? They were the highest scoring team in the NCAAs.

Question #3: Did Buium add a bunch of strength this offseason, perhaps weighing in about 5-10 lbs. heavier? 

Questions 2 & 3 should have been answered within the article. Denver is undefeated and Buium is producing. But there are things that need addressing, for instance, can Buium actively pin guys and hold them against the wall/clear the front of the net? Were some of his points last season a result of the whole team scoring more? Do they have less offensive options? For instance, if we look at Rieger Lorenz, we see him with 3-2-5 in 10 games. To me, this appears to be less than last season at this point. 

To me, Paul Coffey was the best offensive defensemen in league history. Yet, does Coffey get all his points playing on the Colorado Rockies/NJ Devils? Having Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri had to certainly help his stats. Denver was a juggernaut last season. Perhaps they graduated some important parts of the team from last year. This could have quite an impact on Buium's offensive totals. 

not sure about Q1-3 but maybe he is not who we thought he was? here goes my Q to piggie back -

Q4 - Is the talk about becoming a more rounded defensemen a bit of a switch to cover our behinds? yeah yeah he is still great but now instead of scoring, he does the LITTLE things. He is a student of the game. Did you miss Kimmy J? well you are in luck. shit i don't miss Kimmy and i was thinking that this was a steal of the draft? another Hughes or Makar? No? whowouldasunkit (move the kid with Rossi + Trenin for Brady or Tuch)

Q5 - why was Mogilny skipped over? was Daniel Alfredsen better than him? Was Roenick or Weber? Shiiit he probably is better than 97.5% (yeah i've done the math) of players in HoF. oh well. i just wish i didn't loose a stick that had mogilny's name on it. 

Q5 - 

[Citizen Strife]

What exactly about Khusnutdinov's game screams he should be anywhere close to 1C right now?  He has 2 points in 15 games.  Lauko's no slouch in the speed department, so don't tell me they and Gaudreau haven't gotten offensive looks.  They aren't scorers.  They are change of pace/PK guys.

Rossi is a much more complete offensive player than Khusnutdinov will probably ever be.  That was obvious, even before Rossi wasn't with Kaprizov.  Rossi being traded means Ek or Yurov are those other options.  I'd have Hartman get fifty million chances again before letting Khusnutdinov get 1C minutes.

Edited November 13 by Citizen Strife

[Imyourhuckleberry]

10 hours ago, mnfaninnc said:

Denver was a juggernaut last season. Perhaps they graduated some important parts of the team from last year. This could have quite an impact on Buium's offensive totals. 

Denver is scoring 4.9 goals per game(up from 4.6 so far) and allowing 1.3(down from 2.7 so far). I think they're still a juggernaut. A 4-2 win over Wisconsin is the closest result so far, with all other games won by 3+ goals.

They did lose Shai Buium(2021 2nd round pick for Detroit), but replaced him with Eric Pohlkamp, a strong(5'11", 201 lbs) defenseman from Baxter, MN, drafted in the 5th round by San Jose back in 2023.

Some returning players like Zeev Buium might not be getting as many minutes early in the year while they are blowing out some opponents.

[Citizen Strife]

Besides, what good are "offensive" defenseman anyway?  We saw with Addison, and to a lesser extent with Chisholm now, no amount of offense is going to cut it if you're giving up almost as much on the back end.  I like that Buium is coming in with the idea he's not a finished product.  He might actually pay attention to some of the best defensemen in league, instead of out of a job in two years.

Tell me how that Klingberg acquisition helped?  The only reason he got in over Addison was it turned out Addison was somehow even worse.

Edited November 13 by Citizen Strife

[OldDutchChip]

56 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

What exactly about Khusnutdinov's game screams he should be anywhere close to 1C right now?  He has 2 points in 15 games.  Lauko's no slouch in the speed department, so don't tell me they and Gaudreau haven't gotten offensive looks.  They aren't scorers.  They are change of pace/PK guys.

Rossi is a much more complete offensive player than Khusnutdinov will probably ever be.  That was obvious, even before Rossi wasn't with Kaprizov.  Rossi being traded means Ek or Yurov are those other options.  I'd have Hartman get fifty million chances again before letting Khusnutdinov get 1C minutes.

What exactly about Khusnutdinov's game screams he should be anywhere close to 1C right now? Maybe not immediately, but next year - who knows. The kid has flair and skill and speed and is fearless. I did not see him anything but 3/4th line but i feel there is more if given the chance. 

Rossi is a much more complete offensive player than Khusnutdinov will probably ever be. That is silly to say. Even now - if you replace Rossi with Marat - he'll get the same production. And to me - Rossi has plateaud, while Marat's trajectory is still very much tbd. He might be our Fiala, much cheaper, and much more complete of a player. 

Rossi being traded means Ek or Yurov are those other options / Hartman get fifty million chances again before letting Khusnutdinov get 1C minutes. Yurov has not played one minute in NHL. Let's hold those horses, he'll likely be as raw as Ohgren. And not sure why you are souring on Marat - he plays every situation besides PP and seems to be kicking ass. You can see the skill and speed. 

But fine here is amended top 3 after shrimp gets traded

EK ZUC KAP

MARAT TUCH BOLDY

YUROV HARTY SOMEONE

[Citizen Strife]

Rossi's plateau still gets points more than Khusnutdinov's gotten all year.  I would like people to remember that Kap isn't on the line on his own.  Kap didn't have this start last year, not the year where Hartman got 35 goals out of it.  I'm not saying Rossi's going to get 35 goals.  He's not that kind of scorer...but to go from 40 points to 60-65 in one year isn't all with Kap.  He played with Kap most of last year too.  Rossi is improving.  Zuccarello keeps holding back time, and Kap is a beneficiary.  All of them are holding their weight.  You can say Rossi might be doing the least, and I'd agree with. 

But other than Ek or Boldy, who else on the roster COULD you say that about?  Rossi is a balanced, smart player who is giving you offense.  Hynes wanted the Top 6 to be more balanced.  Guess what?  Outside of Johansson, that's what we're getting.  He went from a .5 PPG player to a .85-.90 player.  That's going to even out to 70 pts if he keeps that up (with practically zero major PP time).  Higher than Ek and Boldy last year...so, what's the problem?

The only person I'd like less with Kap than Khusnutdinov is Gaudreau.

Edited November 13 by Citizen Strife

[Citizen Strife]

Additional Edit: Ek and Boldy had 64 and 69 pts respectively last year.  Also, Ek had 30 points the season the same age Rossi is now.  Rossi's halfway there already...

Saying Rossi isn't pulling his weight right now is dumb.

[OldDutchChip]

11 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Rossi's plateau still gets points more than Khusnutdinov's gotten all year.  I would like people to remember that Kap isn't on the line on his own.  Kap didn't have this start last year, not the year where Hartman got 35 goals out of it.  I'm not saying Rossi's going to get 35 goals.  He's not that kind of scorer...but to go from 40 points to 60-65 in one year isn't all with Kap.  He played with Kap most of last year too.  Rossi is improving.  Zuccarello keeps holding back time, and Kap is a beneficiary.  All of them are holding their weight.  You can say Rossi might be doing the least, and I'd agree with. 

But other than Ek or Boldy, who else on the roster COULD you say that about?  Rossi is a balanced, smart player who is giving you offense.  Hynes wanted the Top 6 to be more balanced.  Guess what?  Outside of Johansson, that's what we're getting.  He went from a .5 PPG player to a .85-.90 player.  That's going to even out to 70 pts if he keeps that up (with practically zero major PP time).  Higher than Ek and Boldy last year...so, what's the problem?

The only person I'd like less with Kap than Khusnutdinov is Gaudreau.

Rossi's plateau still gets points more than Khusnutdinov's gotten all year.  yeah he plays a different role and unlike Rossi who plays with Kap, he plays with Trenin

I would like people to remember that Kap isn't on the line on his own.  Kap didn't have this start last year, not the year where Hartman got 35 goals out of it.  Yes Kap is that good. He is a top 3 player AT WORSE. you put gaudreau and trenin on his line and they will still produce

I'm not saying Rossi's going to get 35 goals.  He's not that kind of scorer...but to go from 40 points to 60-65 in one year isn't all with Kap.  it is all Kap! that's what we seen with Harty and with Zuccy and now with Rossi. They all disappear when they are separated from Kap. Except for Harty - the other would NOT have a place in our lineup. 

He played with Kap most of last year too.  Rossi is improving.  Zuccarello keeps holding back time, and Kap is a beneficiary.  It's the other way around. They are thankful that they play with such a great player to drive up their stats.

All of them are holding their weight.  You can say Rossi might be doing the least, and I'd agree with.  Yes he is. 

But other than Ek or Boldy, who else on the roster COULD you say that about? 

I'd say Harty and Freddy are doing alright this year for their role. Even Foligno is playing better and Lauko is great as well for his role. And i already said about Marat. 

The only person I'd like less with Kap than Khusnutdinov is Gaudreau. I dunno if that be such a bad thing, Freddy has been much better this year. Much better. All who wished to trade him (add me to that group) feel silly right now. The guy is playing very good. 

[OldDutchChip]

13 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

Additional Edit: Ek and Boldy had 64 and 69 pts respectively last year.  Also, Ek had 30 points the season the same age Rossi is now.  Rossi's halfway there already...

Saying Rossi isn't pulling his weight right now is dumb.

i don't find stats comparing to be a good predictor of who a player is. 

take note that Rossi has been demoted twice and has been taking penalties much more and has been pushed around more ofter - which will only intensify the more we see teams from our favorite division

[TheGoosesAreLooses]

38 minutes ago, OldDutchChip said:

Rossi is a much more complete offensive player than Khusnutdinov will probably ever be. That is silly to say. Even now - if you replace Rossi with Marat - he'll get the same production. And to me - Rossi has plateaud, while Marat's trajectory is still very much tbd. He might be our Fiala, much cheaper, and much more complete of a player. 

I like K-Nutz but he is not on Rossi's level in any statistical category. They only things he does more than Rossi is hit, block and giveaway the puck, whcih could be attributed to his time on PK. His Corsi and Fenwick are both far far worse, his points/60 is way worse, his shots on goal and high danger scoring chances are way lower. You are utterly delusional if you think these two players are equals.

Furthermore, Rossi  had not plateaued. He went from .5p/g to .89p/g just since last season. That is growth, the exact opposite of what you are saying. Trading that player at 23 is moronic

[OldDutchChip]

23 minutes ago, TheGoosesAreLooses said:

I like K-Nutz but he is not on Rossi's level in any statistical category. They only things he does more than Rossi is hit, block and giveaway the puck, whcih could be attributed to his time on PK. His Corsi and Fenwick are both far far worse, his points/60 is way worse, his shots on goal and high danger scoring chances are way lower. You are utterly delusional if you think these two players are equals.

Furthermore, Rossi  had not plateaued. He went from .5p/g to .89p/g just since last season. That is growth, the exact opposite of what you are saying. Trading that player at 23 is moronic

You both are silly. Marat's role is different right now! He plays with Trenin! He plays on PK! But no let's compare him on ppg stats.....Measuring players using stats is not the only way to evaluate a player. 

I am also not saying Marat is currently deserving of it, but he may be in talks next year, as he is playing better and better. Dude got skill and speed. 

It's like Rossi is the sacred cow here. Be strong - Rossi will get traded soon and i don't want any tears!

[Citizen Strife]

If he's traded, he better be for something the Wild need (scoring winger or right side defense). 

[OldDutchChip]

2 minutes ago, Citizen Strife said:

If he's traded, he better be for something the Wild need (scoring winger or right side defense). 

deal.

 

[Will D. Ness]

Rossi is still a work in progress.  It might be a slower development curve and I have no idea what his ceiling is.  I don't think he is 1C material at this point.

But I do think having him play with KK might pay off if he finds his game.  I have seen little glimpses here and there that make me think he might break out at some point this year, but then I see the immaturity and passive play quite a bit too.  

[mnfaninnc]

I like the trajectory that Rossi is on. If he's still trade bait, sticking him with Kaprizov is genius to bank in gimme points and up his value.

I also see that MaRat has some sneaky skill that could come through if he plays with better finishing wings. He's got Rossi beat in speed, but he does not yet have an NHL shot. This would be the main thing he needs to work on.

Rossi has a much better shot and touch around the net. I don't think we should give up on him either. While his stature is short, he's not small. He's also taking the body a bit more this season and moving players. I've liked the progression and don't believe he is the piece to flip to get the better forward unless that forward's name ends in Tkachuk. To me, this would be the prize pickup. I also suspect that gaining a Tkachuk will help Kaprizov re-sign. 

12 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

my friend you forgot that Zuccy is signed for 2 years and is not going anywhere, unless Kap is moved earlier. so here is where i see us going into next year - 

I have not forgotten about Zuccy, to me, though, I believe his rightful place may be on the 4th line and fill in top 6 if injuries happen next season. My gut says that decreasing his TOI should keep him fresh longer. Of course, he'd still be on the PP unit. I just feel like he's not really a top 6 player anymore. He's had a nice statistical start to the season, but at 38, can he still bring it? We don't even know if he'll wear down this season (2nd half). 

Now, we could simply stand pat, bring in Yurov and a more mature Ohgren, stick them with Rossi and see if they can grow into a line? I think 1 thing you'd get out of that is a lot of youth with speed. Perhaps Ogie even grows into something like 6'1" 215 and is a beast to play against? But Knies at 6'3" 227 seems like the kind of winger we lack who has offensive tendencies. It's like having a Foligno with great mitts.

While Yurov hasn't played a single minute in the N, I still believe he will fit right in with a very short acclimation window. He's a type of player that I just wouldn't trade and think he'll be a steal in an ELC. While we get a lot of cap back next year, still having value oriented ELCs in the lineup will be important.

[OldDutchChip]

1 minute ago, mnfaninnc said:

I like the trajectory that Rossi is on. If he's still trade bait, sticking him with Kaprizov is genius to bank in gimme points and up his value.

I also see that MaRat has some sneaky skill that could come through if he plays with better finishing wings. He's got Rossi beat in speed, but he does not yet have an NHL shot. This would be the main thing he needs to work on.

Rossi has a much better shot and touch around the net. I don't think we should give up on him either. While his stature is short, he's not small. He's also taking the body a bit more this season and moving players. I've liked the progression and don't believe he is the piece to flip to get the better forward unless that forward's name ends in Tkachuk. To me, this would be the prize pickup. I also suspect that gaining a Tkachuk will help Kaprizov re-sign. 

I have not forgotten about Zuccy, to me, though, I believe his rightful place may be on the 4th line and fill in top 6 if injuries happen next season. My gut says that decreasing his TOI should keep him fresh longer. Of course, he'd still be on the PP unit. I just feel like he's not really a top 6 player anymore. He's had a nice statistical start to the season, but at 38, can he still bring it? We don't even know if he'll wear down this season (2nd half). 

Now, we could simply stand pat, bring in Yurov and a more mature Ohgren, stick them with Rossi and see if they can grow into a line? I think 1 thing you'd get out of that is a lot of youth with speed. Perhaps Ogie even grows into something like 6'1" 215 and is a beast to play against? But Knies at 6'3" 227 seems like the kind of winger we lack who has offensive tendencies. It's like having a Foligno with great mitts.

While Yurov hasn't played a single minute in the N, I still believe he will fit right in with a very short acclimation window. He's a type of player that I just wouldn't trade and think he'll be a steal in an ELC. While we get a lot of cap back next year, still having value oriented ELCs in the lineup will be important.

I like the trajectory that Rossi is on. If he's still trade bait, sticking him with Kaprizov is genius to bank in gimme points and up his value. totally agree. give him the spot back and sell high. i see that he tries to be physical but he is being thrown around just like before. Again we have yet to play any meaningful games against central and those teams brutalize us. 

With Marat - it's tough to see but the skills are starting to show. the numbers will of course tell a different story (yes PPG is low - surprise!), but that's the reality when your assignment is different and you play with Trenin and kill penalty vs being on line with Kap and play PP2. but speed and passion and skills he has and some feisty in him (i mentioned before that id like him to morph into kozlov and given his notable spunk - esp with refs (for good or bad tbd) i think he is on his way). wow too many parenthesis! 

Zuccy - i just don't see him on 4th line. he still is extremely productive and him and Kap.....you just have to play it smart and not alienate Kap by dumping his bro

Yurov - who knows. i haven't heard much from him. Recall how the talk was that Ohgr will come in and claim top 6 and then we have the usual "acclimation" period. I'd be surprised if Yurov comes in and does not need the same. 

 

[Pewterschmidt]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

You both are silly. Marat's role is different right now! He plays with Trenin! He plays on PK! But no let's compare him on ppg stats.....Measuring players using stats is not the only way to evaluate a player. 

I am also not saying Marat is currently deserving of it, but he may be in talks next year, as he is playing better and better. Dude got skill and speed. 

It's like Rossi is the sacred cow here. Be strong - Rossi will get traded soon and i don't want any tears!

Put your head between your knees because ODC is launching more truth bombs.

M-Rat is what it looks like to create your own opportunity.  Dude got that dog in him, that a small player needs to stay in a lineup.  I see him climbing in the lineup this year into next. 

[Pewterschmidt]

1 hour ago, Will D. Ness said:

But I do think having him play with KK might pay off if he finds his game.

I believe this is a Pump & Dump strategy by Guerin.  If we had the luxury (time, cap, size) to keep tiny Rossi I would vote yes, but we don't.  

Rossi is one of a very short list of tradeable players WITH market value so I hope he returns a top six rugged winger who can make an ice hockey play.  (no need for another Trenin/Foligno type)

[M_Nels]

2 hours ago, OldDutchChip said:

Measuring players using stats is not the only way to evaluate a player. 

You and I often have different takes on many things but this is SPOT ON.

[MNCountryLife]

Buium looked like he was playing against Bantam players.  Just did whatever he wanted.  I have to believe that he will step right into the NHL and bypass the A.